That's all kind of interesting but keep this in mind. How does what you change to the Vader=Anakin thing change how a first timer would view the Im your father moment.
I feel like if everything happened the way you write it and eps 4 and 5 are the same, I think you are looking at a very bad reaction to Im Your Father. I predict a lot of "This is BS!" Reactions
It occurs to me every time I watch the Plinkett video that he is wrong on almost everything he says.
That said. In the edit I am working on I have Jar Jar as the first character to appear.
Mine begins with the crawl panning down to Trade Federation ships beginning their invasion landing. You see the ships landing and some troops coming out.
Then cut to Jar Jar coming out of the lake and then walking into the forest and then freaking out when seeing the troops coming! I like the primitive creature being overwhelmed by the bad robots as the first thing you see.
Its weird territory here. Ultimately the idea of force ghosts gets a little weird if you think to much about it. The only appear for Luke's benefit anyway. You start thinking about Obi-Wan and Yoda and Anakin all sitting around playing cards as ghosts and it gets pretty hokey. Anyway, Its hard for me to imagine we are going to get a lot of Luke in the movies, so I don't think we'll need to get any Vader.
Im sure they're will be some, but I bet we get Yoda and some other Jedi ghost that hasn't been seen before. And possibly Liam Neeson or Ewan McGregor.
McGregor tweeted this morning "Wonder if theyre gonna need some Jedi Hologram action."
I think there is very clearly a bit of recognition of some kind there. I think thats very obvious. From a 1977 only POV, why would it be there? I take it to mean that Obi-Wan could recognize this specific droid. But it probably means he recognizes this "kind" of droid. And it being somewhat specific to war or fighting or at the very least, that it is a big time droid from the most serious parts of the galaxy.
Sometimes it seems like Obi-Wan has always been some kind of old timey not technologically advanced kind of guy. But he knows about droids. He says he doesn't seem to remember owning a droid but on the Death Star he busts out with "plug in. You should be able to get a blah blah blah" So he's quite familar with droids and Astromechs in general.
If the movies are watched from the 1-6 perspective then there aren't any inconsistencies. But a lot of OT fans hate that because of the "surprise factor" which I can understand. You just have to understand that some things seem inconsistent if you insist upon watching in "surprise order"
Things like recognizing R2 aren't an issue because from 1-6 order, you flat out KNOW 100% that he is at the very least playing coy. We KNOW he is very familiar with astromech droids. Whether or not he technically ever owned a droid isn't really an issue.
But those who are making "Surprise preserving" edits won't need to worry about changing these because you'll still be on a 1-6 perspective.
Another example being. "The Jedi Master who instructed me" If you hear that as a stand alone line, its natural to assume a training relationship that is different than the dynamic we see in the prequels.
However, if the prequel training dynamic is your original base perspective (What you KNOW) when you get to Hoth, then that line will sound like a perfectly reasonable effecient way to tell Luke what he needs to hear right at the moment.
Actually very interesting. I agree. I originally thought it looked like the inside of a Starship. I thought about having them go back to Naboo, but with Obi and Q THEN going to the TF starship to talk and using their early scenes of attack leading directly to the conflict with Maul, while Padme and JJ get the Gungans to fight the Droids.
But I think the electro pits and force fields of the Maul/Obi/Q fight would certainly "pass" for Coruscant.
I like the extended race also. Though I dislike Anakin's Stalling Out and then having the mechanical problem and then the extended versions, flailing around loose engine bit.
I don't disagree with the cartoon issue. But if you cut Quadrinaros and the 2 headed announcer, I think the rest wouldn't seem so bad.
My edit is an attempt to shrink the whole 6 film saga into a single 3 hr and 59 minute epic movie. So thats why the shortening of the race to only 1 lap.
Bingowings said:
I'll have to watch it again (of course in the old days I could pop on youtube for a quick refresher) but even if there are continuity issues (nothing new in a Star Wars film, something you are probably more qualified than most to attest to) it does seem that your main objection is to the actual blocking conceit itself rather than any positioning hiccup.
For me the reason why ANH's opening is so iconic is it's pure cinematic storytelling.
From that moment you know the score.
Small Rebellion up against a giant beweaponed evil Empire.
The opening to TPM should be the blockade arriving.
Tiny little defensive planet surrounded by a fleet of greedy feds, like a swarm of giant pac-men going for the innocent blue dot.
Not a tiny little ship representing the Galactic Republic arriving at a large in frame world with lots of ships that mysteriously vanish in the last act.
I would use blocking in Jedi to show the huge bulk of a Star Destroyer dwarfed by the Executor (as in ESB) and then have that dwarfed by the metal tendrils of the unfinished Death Star.
With ROTS Coruscant has always been shown as this safe spot.
Nothing can touch the capital, it's towers always glistening even when there is slavery and villainy and bloodshed.
The general idea of fooling the audience into expecting another safe Coruscant reveal only to have it turn into a chaotic battle was the right thing to do. I would have shown the city itself largely in ruins.
Towers over turned, spires snapped off, Coruscant blitzed.
After getting such a shock I could imagine the Senate turning to Palpatine for easy answers even if it meant the formation of the Empire.
This is an excellent assessment. I thought the reveal of a massive battle going on above coruscant was a fantastic shot and did exactly what was needed. This war is not being fought on some far out 3rd world planet. Its right here and right now. And the reveal being done the way it was really emphasizes that.
Issues with how it was technically done are extremely nitpicky to me. I watched the opening several times just in the last couple of minutes. I don't see any reason why its wrong. Yes, you probably should be able to see some battle stuff going on. In the lower part of the screen below the big ship, but I don't really think you should be able to see anything in the upper portion. The battle we are presented with is considerably lower than the ship that they fly over.
As for sound. This is not at all like the Helicopter not being heard until it pops into the frame. We have a loud score and sound from the two fighters on screen. This is no different than what all films do. The point about Star Wars in general taking liberties with the idea of sound in space is that they haven't set up any rules. It all style in every film. Tie Fighters roar by the camera, but only when they pass the camera. They aren't roaring all the time. It would be all you could hear in the ROTJ space battle. That battle is looks to be 1000s of feet below the camera position in the beginning of the shot. There's simply no reason to think you'd hear all of it.
Bingowings said:
I'll have to watch it again (of course in the old days I could pop on youtube for a quick refresher) but even if there are continuity issues (nothing new in a Star Wars film, something you are probably more qualified than most to attest to) it does seem that your main objection is to the actual blocking conceit itself rather than any positioning hiccup.
For me the reason why ANH's opening is so iconic is it's pure cinematic storytelling.
From that moment you know the score.
Small Rebellion up against a giant beweaponed evil Empire.
The opening to TPM should be the blockade arriving.
Tiny little defensive planet surrounded by a fleet of greedy feds, like a swarm of giant pac-men going for the innocent blue dot.
Not a tiny little ship representing the Galactic Republic arriving at a large in frame world with lots of ships that mysteriously vanish in the last act.
I would use blocking in Jedi to show the huge bulk of a Star Destroyer dwarfed by the Executor (as in ESB) and then have that dwarfed by the metal tendrils of the unfinished Death Star.
With ROTS Coruscant has always been shown as this safe spot.
Nothing can touch the capital, it's towers always glistening even when there is slavery and villainy and bloodshed.
The general idea of fooling the audience into expecting another safe Coruscant reveal only to have it turn into a chaotic battle was the right thing to do. I would have shown the city itself largely in ruins.
Towers over turned, spires snapped off, Coruscant blitzed.
After getting such a shock I could imagine the Senate turning to Palpatine for easy answers even if it meant the formation of the Empire.
I get it. Just an odd thing to say considering its one the most iconic moments in the whole saga. If you don't like the opening shot of Sith, thats fine, don't like it. But I think the mistake people make is to try to find too much reasoning behind not liking it. Too much beyond their own taste or opinions about cinema. The idea that its too unlike anything weve seen before in Star Wars is a bit of a stretch to me. Even if I agree its unlike anything whether thats an issue or not is still pretty subjective. Its a showy piece. Its works very similarly to the opening shot or 3 shots of A New Hope but is done purposefully very differently. I think it works well.
And keep in mind, sound in space at all is non-existent, so any sound design is done with cinema effect in mind whether it be psuedo-realism or style.
Here's a fun idea.
How about in ESB when they are in the carbonite chamber. Chewie begins to fight with 3P0 on his back. How about we cut in a quick close up of Vader's face, and cut to a slow mo close up of 3P0. Then cut back to the next shot of Boba Fett preparing to shoot. But make it slow motion and cut in a slowed down version of NOOOOOOOOO.
Clearly the scene is about Vader wanting to save the droid he built from being shot by Boba Fett, but this way it will be more obvious.
To that end, If we really want to get mischievious, can we make an edit so that it turns out that Obi-Wan is Luke's father? And that the the reason Anakin goes over to palp is because of legit jealousy? That would be awesome.
At the very least a good trailer could be made.
SW has never made a habit of hiding huge obvious things just out of frame
What was that one seen in that one movie where there was nothing at all and then there was this big ship and behind that there was nothing for a second and then there was this REALLY BIG ship.
Anchorhead is a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher. But above all, he is a man—a hopelessly inquisitive man just like you"
Awesome. I got it. Just was slow to get around to this thread. I spit a little coffee on my screen this morning. I don't even know who this Anchorhead is but if he's anything like Lott...eerrrr Lancaster Dodd, he's an interesting cat to be sure.