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nin

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Join date
14-Nov-2005
Last activity
26-Sep-2006
Posts
34

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Post
#159244
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Originally posted by: Karyudo
There is an awful lot of hype surrounding the Japanese SC. I can confirm that the SC is overall not nearly as good a viewing experience as the DC. There are a few (and here I stress a few) scenes that might have more raw detail, but the noise that is encoded right into the disc makes watching it in motion not the best experience. Getting from "raw detail" to "improved viewing experience" is non-trivial.

This SC vs. DC stuff is a little bit like comparing... well, I don't know. All I know is, even with my relatively-decent Pioneer CLD-D925, there is no way I would base an LD-to-DVD project on the SC alone. Or even the SC first and foremost. It is, at best, something to be used very sparingly, in highly-specific cases. Sorta like using spackle to repair holes in drywall, maybe. You wouldn't want to make the whole wall out of spackle, would you?



Well, this maybe true, but maybe not. Why? Well, because of the players. I have had 4 different CLD-925, two DVL-909, one CLD-315, CLD-501, CLD-503, LD-S9, two HLD-X9 and two HLD-X0 and one thing that are the biggest difference between these player is the way they handle noise. And this is not always the same. I give an example:
One LD can have a really noisey picture on the CLD-925. Let say, 7/10 in noise. The same LD on the HLD-X0 will have less noise, maybe 3/10.
Another LD can have an even nosier picture, say 8/10 on the CLD-925. But when we use that on the HLD-X0, we would think it could be 4/10, but it's only 6/10.

So there is a difference between players AND what LD. The only thing that will be the same is that the HLD-X0 will give a better image. Sometimes much better and sometime a LOT better.

The X0 project is the only really project that will give us the original movies in the best shape ever. I think we should try our most to see if we can dig out even a little more detail and picture quality if we can. Maybe the japanese SC is not as good as the DC, but then we know that, but only if we have tried it. I don't know if they are framed the same, then one could use some scenes that looks better in the SC in the final X0 DVD. I can nothing about restoring the image, but I think in most cases a more detailed but a little more nosey picture is better than a softer but less nosey picture, to work from.

I have just sent me PDI delux card for upgrading to high-grade BNC connection. Then I could try a lot of new capture with different machines (the HLD-X9, but I don't see whatt could be better with it) and settings.

These guys have spent a LOT of time and money on this project and I would hope that they don't rush anything. Better to do it right the first time than going back (that will probebly never happen).

/Mattias
Post
#156721
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Originally posted by: zion
Originally posted by: Arnie.d
This is confusing.

Alright, to clear up the confusion, here's the story. Laserman originally got a capture from nin, but it wasn't used except in the early 'pre X0 Project' pics that were on Laserman's website.

The master we are working from now is not from nin's player due to some problems in the original capture. (No fault of nin's, though Laserman never went into exactly what the problems were.)

The footage we are currently using is from a Japanese X0 capture from a person who wishes to remain unknown -- both to protect themselves from lawyers and to protect themselves from being inundated with requests to transfer people's discs for them. The process of doing 3 movies in CAV was enough to make her never want to capture anything ever again. So yeah, don't ask. She is not to be confused with our mysterious 3rd member however.

As stated before, the X0 capture footage we currently have is all in all better than the SC footage. I think the buzz around here lately for the SC discs is a little misleading in that people automatically think that a full SC capture is the only way to go. And this is simply not true. We will put up some examples in the next week or so that will show you the difference with what we are currently working on, and our experiments with the SC. Some of you may be pleasantly suprised.



The reason why my capture was not as good as the second are, from what I understand this:
When we did my capturing, we used the PDI delux card and s-video out from the X0. But the second time they used a modified PDI card that had a BNC connection (much better than RCA/DIN) and used composite from the X0. Now, the HLD-X0 is a great machine, but it's 10 year old design. So the comb filter in it are not the berst one can get. So the fact that they used another combfilter and BNC composite put are probebly the reason why the second capture was better.

Now, Zion, do I understand correctly that the Japanese SC capture are NOT from an HLD-X0? And in some scenes BETTER than a X0 capture? If so, I could do another capture from composite and to a BNC modified PDI card from the SC edition and see if it will look even better (lower noise, more detail?). Let me know.

/Mattias
Post
#155710
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
I agree with you. The version you are working on will look MUCH better than any LD used on a X9/X0. There is no video processor in the world that can restore and better the image in real time like you do. I would like to see a HD version of that, like 1280x720P or even 1920x1808P. I would think that would look AMAZING.
Love that you have put the effort to make it the best it could be.

/mattias
Post
#155337
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Well, the 925/2950/909 is the best PAL players around but they cannot hold a candle to the X9/X0. On a 29 inch CRT tv the difference will not be huge but on a high quality projector the difference is like between not watchable to very nice. The X9/X0 have a LOT better colors. The luma and chroma noise is VASTLY lower on the Xx players that those players. Sharpness & detail are also much improved. Everything is better. One can look at screenshots from the other DVD-R projects and see the difference in quality.

The difference between 2950 and 925 is that the 2950 should be a little better, according to a friend that tested both. The 909 is somewhat worse than the 925. I do have a PDI delux card and when I get my new computer I could take screenshots from the 925 and compare to the X0.

/Mattias
Post
#155289
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Originally posted by: gltaylor74
It may not be appropriate for this thread but I'm also willing to use my HLD-X9 to create captures if someone had the right hardware, software, and know how. I guess it would have to be local to me or send me the proper equipment as I won't ship out the X9. The X9 has been modified to produce a sharper image from it's S-video output and use it's internal 3D comb filter. It may be a small step down from the X0 in terms of basic video quality, but it also has a brand new laser, spindle motor, belts, and was setup by Duncan Hunter, who is the top laserdisc tech in the US. I agree with NIN that the new laser for his X0's would likely give better results as well, according to how many hours the current laser has on it. I'd love to see an X0 to compare with!



Hi Taylor.

Well, I have comparied my HLD-X0 to my HLD-X9 a couple of times and to me there is no contest; the HLD-X0 is giving a more detailed picture, with better contrast range and a LOT less noise. I have here two frames that are exactly the same from both players. Save both on your computer and use a viewing program that you can quickly jump between the both pictures.
HLD-X9 [url]http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7342/hldx9ep10sx.png[/url]
HLD-X0 [url]http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4184/hldx0ep16co.png[/url]

Look at the aliens faces. Jump fast between the pictures and you will see that the X0 give a lot more detail. The contrast range is bigger also. Depending on your size of the screen you are viewing (have my PC to a rearview DLP 50 inch) you can look around the soldiers and see more noise with the X9.

And the X0 have a rather old comb filter, so I really understand that the guys got better picture quality with BNC composite to a newer comb filter. That one reason I'm really looking forward to the Crystalio II (only BNC inputs, high-end 5-line 3D motion adaptivecomb filter) so I can use it better comb filter.

The HLD-X9 is a GREAT player, I should know I have two of them. It is the best two-side player ever and much better than other I have seen. But to me, the HLD-X0 are better and they choose the right player for this project.

/Mattias
Post
#155232
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Okey. Then I would guess my HLD-X0 is alright. The comb filter in the HLD-X0 is old and the one in the PDI card would probebly be better + using BNC instead on s-video DIN will also give better image. I have just got a PDI delux card, maybe I should try to modify it with a BNC input also, if that's rather easy to do?
Post
#155229
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
What did you think was better the second time? Was it the same DC version or the Japanese release?
We did use standard PDI delux card with monster 3 s-video cable, but did you use composite out and tweaked the PDI card even more next time?
I really would like to know because I want my HLD-X0 to be as good as they can be.

/Mattias

Ps. I will soon get a really great new computer (800 GB hard drive) and I have rather fast connection, so one should not need to ship hard drives across the world.
Post
#155224
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Well, I think it's really time to drop the PAL LD question. There are no chance of getting a picture close to the NTSC version. How do I know this? Well, I have had 4 different CLD-925 and a DVL-909. I'm alos the guy with the HLD-X0 that was original used for transfer. Those player are really not even close in terms of picture quality. I would not hold my breath that the Theta player would be better either. I would think it have the same PAL "stuff" like the CLD-2950.

I have now two HLD-X0 in my set-up (and also two HLD-X9). What I understand there was some better quality when transfering the Japanese release from a HLD-X0 in Japan with composite and a slightly better card than the PDI card? Is those capture been used now?
If you guys need any more transfers let me know. I'm thinking about getting my both HLD-X0 totally serviced with new laser and all. That would give even better quality me think. I will try to get the service manual too because I have some friends that maybe could modify and tweak out even more from this player.

So if you have any question, ask me here or get in touch with laserman, he has my e-mail.

Keep up the good work!

/Mattias