nightstalkerpoet

Mike O said:

Mielr said:

 

DavidBrennan said:

Any people with distaste for the current state of the SW "brand" or LFL in general feel any vindication by the floppage of TPM 3D?

I do. And even if it ends up making a profit, I'll still consider it a "flop" because the standards have been set higher by the franchise, tarnished or not.

As far as the marketing goes, I must be watching the wrong channels because I think I saw a total of ONE tv commercial for TPM3D and only one or two posters at bus stops. :-?

 

Being a year behind on my Wittertainment and hearing Mark pontificate about the "death of the 3-D," the vindictive bastard in me is hoping that the fad will be in its death throes by the end of the AOTC relelease and LFL won't get to the OT and will lose big time. But the realist in me knows that the OT will do gangbusters in the theaters, even with the Amazon backlash and people knowing full well it's not the original film, and will just be another nail in the OOT's coffin.

The strange thing is... I think that the negative feelings about Star Wars are beginning to spread to the general public. Sitting through TPM in a theater again really showed how bad of a film it was... I've never seen so many people sleeping through a midnight premier or a 3D film.

I think that, combined with such offensive changes as "Nooooo!" have forced even casual Star Wars fans to be on guard. I would assume more and more people are going to be against large scale experiences like Theater viewings, simply to avoid overshadowing their fond memories of watching the films in the Theater, while they were still pure and great.

The Bluray was proof that Lucas doesn't care, as he has total control over the films. I'm guessing control over games, etc. is a little more spread out, and the people creating them and testing them probably love Star Wars quite a bit... easily enough to have made their way here.

topdawg193 said:

And then, with regards to the actual, physical, battle that must occur, many martial arts that inculcate the Taoist thought are concerned with using one's opponent against themselves, by allowing their rash offence to be countered and repelled back unto themselves through a clear-minded defence, via grapples, holds, blocks, and such. 

First of all, I would like to say that was very enlightening to read.

However, I would like to say that there is a difference between hand to hand combat and fighting with a weapon, simply in the fact that your limbs are always there, prepared to be used in that defensive method. With a weapon, it is important that the person on defense actually have their weapon drawn first, so as to block the initial attack.

For all the flack the prequels get, RotS has always been held in higher esteem than the other two. So I think it is reasonable to reconcile between that film and the OT, even if I feel Eps 1 and 2 should be made to match the rest.

Rather than use that as a reasoning, I'd point to Yoda telling Luke he must "confront" Vader, giving the impression of initiating a battle.  Also, Obi-Wan stating that if Luke will not kill Vader, "The Emperor has already won". Both statements give reasonable support to a Jedi being the aggressor in a battle. 

If anyone ever has wondered what it would be like to have a different actor play (or dub) Anakin, here is the *better* actor from the audition screen tests, dubbed into the film. Just did this mockup - REALLY hoping to see something like this integrated into fanedits!

http://youtu.be/BV-P39TOOBM

btw, watch in 1080p, much better :)

Considering the review gives a framework for the edit, a hoax cut based on that could still be enjoyable.

oh_riginal said:

I like how they start off chatting, showing that there is a friendship between them before getting to business, so to speak. The script version feels too much like exactly that: a scripted conversation. The theatrical edit drops in on the mid-conversation which, to me, feels more natural and even makes the actors' performances better.

Couldn't have said it better.

I feel the opposite way about this. I feel that the ANH:R version of it gives the feeling that they aren't incredibly close, and thus have been engaged in simple small talk prior to R2's message. Much better than truly attempting to break into the middle of a conversation.

Obi-Wan was sent to watch over Luke, but was probably waiting for a sign of some sort before he acted (giving Luke a lightsaber, etc.) Without hearing the message, Obi-Wan has no reason to blow his cover and act.

After hearing the message, he has to quickly convince Luke to help him. He does so by telling him a bit about his father, etc, hoping to build some more trust. After all, why would someone watching from afar have a close relationship with the person they're watching?

I definitely hope it stays this way.

Is there a comparison video for Ady's version of Bens hut vs original? I'm not sure exactly what was changed.

I hope not... 3P0's line without "the princess" always makes me smile, because it is the first completely obvious difference, reassuring me that I'm watching the right version of ANH :)

Not sure if this has been asked...

When ANH:R is redone in HD, will we be getting both Regular and Purist editions again?

Haven't you seen the 2004 SE DVDs? It was George's intention that EVERYTHING be blue :P

zombie84 said:

I guess he meant that sometimes when blue-screen in done poorly you get bluescreen spill, which would make neutral coloured objects have blue halos, and because of black-level issues in optical printing they sometimes print blueish (they also often print pink and green).

Correct. Am I the only that's seeing it that way?

The amusing thing here is that the title of this is actually partially true. The BluRay set includes the THX Optimizer, which (in the future) will communicate with THX Optimized TVs, Players, and Recievers to alter your home viewing experience to exactly what George intends it to be...

I have less of a problem with the color of the TIE fighters than I do with the way that they mesh with the background. The gray found in ANH:R helped a lot with that, and that's why I like the coloring. To me, the blue fighters stand out like obvious blue screen work, often making them seem to be at a VERY different depth than anything else in the film. Perhaps if this was changed, I'd be more content with the blue.

Why do you need to own the Bluray version if you only intend to get an SD version of the edit?

I will say that Bluray, even output at 480i, is far superior to DVD. Color is WAY better, and the clarity does not suffer from MPEG artifacting, thus giving you a crisp and clean image. Definitely still worth it to buy, though not as much as it would be for larger screens/resolutions.

These benefits are lost when BluRay sourced edits are released as a standard DVD.

As a gift for donating, its not for "profit", but I get the point...

So many gray areas and fine lines... especially when attempting to fly under the radar... 

Alright, just saw that the first page verifies that there will be a BD-25 release. A LOT of us don't have BD-Writers at home.

I know that this is a gray area, because of copyright, etc. but...

Is there any chance that Ady or someone in his inner circle could do a complete bluray release, selling copies to people who would like to Donate to RotJ:R?

It could include:

-Actual Bluray Case

-Cover Art (a while back I saw that someone had double-sided covers, Revisited on the outside, original artwork on the inside - that looked amazing!)

-Edit on Lightscribe BluRay Disc (With Disc Art Scribed On)

-Numbered, limited edition card, showing a comparison shot between the official release/Revisited (similar to the screenshot comparisons we've seen)

You could make these available only to people intending to Donate to RotJ:R, who make a donation of $40 or more (to cover cost of supplies and shipping, and make sure that a decent amount still makes it towards the donation)

Just a suggestion/hopeful request.

It's funny, because I have agreed with and been amazed by just about everything Ady has thrown our way...

My one disagreement is putting ANH:R HD out before his PT:R. My kids are 1 and 2. I was hoping he'd fix the prequels before they ever had to see them :P And it's amazing what a good upconverting player can do to ANH:R.

There is plenty of ESB:R love... they're just hitting the final shots and stages, so it seems there is a little less new info rolling in.

doubleofive said:

 

For every question like this, there is only one answer: if its a choice between making the OT match the PT or the PT match the OT, the Prequels will be modified to match the Originals, as it should be.

 

I would say that lightsabers seem to be the exception to this rule, as they seem to combine the best of both from what I've seen.

Again, another sad attempt rationalization. "I saw the TPM in 3D so that we can get the UOT in 3D."

You've fallen for Lucasfilm's marketing ploy. "We converted one movie. If it makes enough money we'll do the rest." Translation: give us enough money or we won't put out the OT Special Edition in 3D.

??????? Are people this stupid?

I honestly do believe that if TPM 3D is a flop, that the idea could be scratched. 

However, I wasn't saying UOT in 3D... I was suggesting the a 2D bluray could be included in the set... would be a great marketing strategy...

For anyone who thinks that we shouldn't have gone to see the movie in 3D... you really should be thanking us... I've heard a lot of people saying that they want to see the OT in 3D, but if anyone remembers, Lucas won't release all of them unless each film is successful.

I went to a half-filled, very mellow midnight showing, and have to say that I was both impressed and disappointed...

Pros

Personally, I thought that the 3D conversion was AMAZING. Though subtle, it added to the depth of the film in a way that the Bluray release was unable to do (something I feel WAS achieved with RotS).

When TPM was released, everyone who worked on it kept pointing out how many things were going on in each scene. Everything, background and foreground, has been given proper depth. For some scenes, characters are talking, and you can see a battle droid walking away around 50 feet back clearly, with all of its surroundings also thoroughly given depth. Another very interesting feature is the changing of scenes through wipes, because many foreground heavy scenes gave way to star fields, causing wipes to show off the huge depth difference.

Not too many scenes stand out, but I think this is a huge positive. Everything visually meshes MUCH better than any other version of this I've seen.

Cons

The film in 3D was DARK. It took a while for my eyes to adjust to it, so the beginning of the film seem overly black.

Theater sound wasn't as impressive as I had hoped. I've spent two years trying to get my setup right at home though, so I'm a bit spoiled from the bluray audio in a really nice 6.1 setup.

The film is BORING. I haven't had to just sit through TPM in years, without a pause button and some light distraction. I felt stuck on Tatooine for eternity...

Final Thoughts

Go see it if you have any interest in ANY of the films in 3D at all. I'm sure that it could use the numbers boost to pave the way for George to release the rest of the films. Now that this film is over, I'm actually decently excited to see the rest of them this way...

And who knows... maybe George will release the OUT with the 3D Bluray releases. Every new release of these films at least offer a chance for that opportunity. 

kilik64 said:

 (although I will say that Hugo has almost changed my mind on it, that movie was phenominal!),

I would say that this conversion was nearly on par with Hugo. I also loved Hugo :)

Actually, that picture amuses me... because there is the actual model, and a picture from the film below. Perhaps Ady could use this image as a source to color correct the VERY blue film version to the blue gray of the model.

Except that the Mona Lisa was not your idea, and had nothing to do with you.

There were a LOT of people that helped to make Star Wars great, but that doesn't change that it was George Lucas' "child". Sure, grandma and grandpa and aunts and uncles and friends helped as it grew up and matured, but that child will always remain George's.

I feel like a lot of Star Wars fans feel overly-entitled... 

Some of it goes so far as to make me think of Occupy Wall Street protesters:

Reporter: "What do you want?"

Protester: "Money"

Reporter: "So what are corporations and government supposed to do.

Protester: "Give me some!"

Reporter: "Why?"

Protester: "Because I want it!"

Reporter: "But isn't it their choice what to do with the money they've earned?"

Protester: "But I've paid taxes. That must directly correlate to why they are rich. So they owe it to me."

TMBTM said:

But a painter does not sell his work to someone then few years later comes in the customer's house to take it off the wall to draw a mustache in the middle, then ask few dollars more or he'd leave with it.

How many people have had George come into their homes, alter their OUT VHS tapes and laserdiscs, then threaten to take them? 

SilverWook said:

nightstalkerpoet said:

I'd really encourage faneditors not to remove George's name from edits... despite being able to read his comments that way, it is better to assume that is not what he meant. Lucasfilm has (in their own way) been very supportive of the fanediting community, and I think any direct attempts to slight them or George is unnecessary and liable to cause issues.

... As fans of the OUT, there needs to be a change. Even if we feel that George shouldn't take offense to internet complaints, he obviously does. For once, why not acknowledge what George is looking for from the fanbase, and make an effort on our end, to give him what he wants, and to get what we want. Stop all of the George bashing, and switch to a constructively critical tone.

- We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one. It was non-anamorphic, but it was an attempt to do something for the fans that George didn't want to do anyways - a small sacrifice, but one none the less. (also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

How many people thanked him for doing that? vs How many people complained about it? Had people even attempted to be content with it, I think we might have seen a Bluray release of the OUT... but obviously that's not how things went. George proved he doesn't react well to negative fan pressure. He expected it on the PT, but not on this.

Years later, after people continued to push and say "The non-anamorphic version isn't good enough", it's time for the Bluray release.... but rather than say "Cool, Star Wars on Bluray" or "I'd prefer not to get this, because I prefer the original releases I got in 2006"... there is an organized boycott generating bad publicity... Not an organized, polite request that the films be included, but a hatred filled boycott. 

This left us (not surprisingly) without the OUT on Bluray...

Has anyone realized it's time for a new approach. Maybe an apology for the boycott and negative press? Maybe some attempt to stop the constant attacks on George? He is the mastermind behind Star Wars and Indiana Jones people... You may disagree with his decisions now, but at the very least the respect we owe him for giving us the OT and Indy 1-3 should keep us civil towards him.

With as many times as George has stated that he doesn't want to release the OUT, to do so would make him look bad, going back on his word, unsure of what he wants... the press jumps all over you for that. Why would he do that for "fans" that are ungrateful for what they're given, and attack him any chance they get.

I read that interview and see one thing - that he is perfectly happy to allow his films to be fanedited, and for those edits to be shared. It's a pretty rare person in any corporation that will allow those kind of freedoms to be taken without persuing legal action. But rather than revel in that... everyone would rather tear him limb from limb.

Just my two cents...

A non anamorphic title in 2006 was unacceptable. Using a 1993 video master was just cheap. Had any other studio pulled that with a "crown jewel" title at the time, they would have gotten an earful, and deservedly so.

No other director pulls this crap! Notice nobody bitches about the walkie talkies in E.T. these days?

Widscreen tv sets have been around since the mid 90's. Many early DVD titles were anamorphic.

Fans have tried to be nice in the past. Fans have tried to be patient. All the petitions and politeness went nowhere. How many times can you willingly get slapped in the face by someone who shows such contempt for their own films?

 

Keep in mind that George views the OUT as a "first draft" these days. While that may really bother some people, and while many disagree, what artist is going to put hard work and effort into making their first draft available to the public when the "final draft" is available?

Sure, if you ask to see a pencil sketch of a piece of art that has since been finished and colored, the artist will happily show the original version. But why would they go back and make sure all of the erase marks were cleaned up and put the effort into making large professional-quality prints of something they feel is an inferior product? 

The 2006 release was a response to the petitions and politeness. It seems to me that no release at all would have been the slap in the face. Instead, George did something for the fans that he didn't really want to do.

He wasn't willing to perfect his "first draft", but he was willing to hand us the best copy of it that he had - the 1993 laserdisc master. 

It just seems to me that when petitions and politeness were the tools of the fanbase, we saw some results. With boycotts and ranting, we have absolutely nothing. Even in the official OT petition, a negative tone has been taken:

culminated with the release of the 2006 limited edition DVDs, which contained substandard transfers from 1993

as the steward of one of the most recognizable and beloved film series of all time, you have a responsibility

The deliberate destruction of the original elements demonstrates such disrespect for film history that many of us find it hard to believe, 

Why couldn't the petition stick to more of the "Thank you for giving us Star Wars. Many of us are nostalgic and would like the chance to view the films the way we grew up with. We really appreciated that you included the original versions of the films on the 2006 DVDs. We understand that the 1993 transfers were the best available at that point. There have been recent rumors that a few original prints of the films do exist in private collections. Now that the home format standard has changed to Bluray, it would be really awesome if you could find some of these remaining prints and release higher quality versions of the films the way many of us saw them in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's."

I guess what I'm saying is that in the future, I hope for something, as opposed to nothing. With that in mind I choose to be polite and petition.