moviefreakedmind

CatBus said:

moviefreakedmind said:

CatBus said:

“Because it makes good business sense” has been a valid argument since 1997. If anything, that argument is actually becoming less valid as time goes on, as the proportion of the Star Wars fanbase that has actually seen the Star Wars trilogy that started it all decreases.

It will always make good business sense. There always has been and always will be a market for the unaltered films. Things we infinitely smaller followings have received releases in the past. The producer’s cut of Halloween 6 was released on bluray recently as the selling point for the Halloween box set, and in 2013 the original mixes of ZZ Top’s studio albums were released on CD for the first time since before they had been altered with new percussion in the late 1980s. There really is a market for almost everything, but especially Star Wars. Despecialized Edition has proven that there is a market for the OT. Whether the fact that there is money to be made will motivate Lucasfilm to them releasing the films is yet to be seen, however.

Not sure we’re in disagreement. The original ZZ Top mixes may still have a market now, but it would have made more business sense to do it twenty years ago. If they held out another fifty years, would it have still made business sense then? I think our different attitudes come from our differing expectations of an official OOT release. If I’m reading you correctly, you seem to think it could happen in 5-10 years, while I tend to think the most likely official OOT release scenario is for the OOT copyrights to expire (still a hundred years out or more), so that some public domain media outfit like Laserlight will release it as a cheapo vintage classics collection. The length of the wait does impact the size of the audience, if the wait is long enough. I’m not saying an OOT release won’t make business sense even then, just that it’ll make considerably less sense than it would have a century earlier.

I completely agree regarding the length of time. My thinking was mostly based on the notion that it will be released within the next few years, or at most the decade. In that sense, I don’t think it would have any less of a market now than it did then. Of course, once we get into multiple decades it is absolutely true that the market will naturally shrink. That being said, I just can’t see Disney thinking that it is really worth it to wait until 2020 to do anything with the existing Star Wars films. Especially passing up the 40th anniversary, but I guess Lucas did the same thing in 2007 so who knows at this point

crissrudd4554 said:

Someone a few years back offered to restore the originals for nothing. Lucas never responded. It obviously goes much deeper than ‘it costs too much money’.

Well, that may have just been an easy cover statement rather than explaining that he just didn’t want to. But remember, nothing is free, while he may not have had to pay Robert A. Harris a salary, he would still have had to have funded the restoration and paid all of the other people who were working on the restoration. It also would consume his time as he would have no doubt supervised it, while simultaneously trying to supervise the other project that his changes were being added to. Maybe that’s the case, or maybe he did want it to never be seen again, who know? Now that he is gone however, that is irrelevant to whether it will be released now, which I think will either be when TFA comes out on blu-ray, or when the 40th anniversary happens alongside Episode VIII.

It’s pretty much impossible to know for sure what George’s intent was by the time he sold Disney, especially since he claimed that the only reason the OUT wasn’t on the blu ray was because it was too expensive. Maybe it’s true that he just didn’t have time to restore the OUT because he was completely focused on making more changes. Regardless, my point wasn’t so much on the “leaks” themselves, but more the fact that because there is no straightforward path to restoring these films, then perhaps they will take the big project of restoring these films as the opportunity to release both the Special Edition (whether with updated 4K CGI or not) as well as the unaltered versions.

Maybe now that the slave Leia outfit has been retired they’ll alter the next release of Jedi to make her appear to be wearing a sweatshirt and jeans while captured by Jabba the Hut.

Darth Id said:

Did he seriously refer to Disney as "the white slavers who take these things and [trails off, chuckles mirthlessly]"?

What an unfathomable piece of garbage. Four billion dollars richer, and playing the martyr.

He was clearly joking.

I’ve been feeling bad for him too because for a couple years I was very much in the bashing Lucas camp. That’s not to say that I don’t still have a bone to pick with him over the missing OOT and his prequel decisions, but lately I’ve been getting some more perspectives on him outside of the hardcore fandom and sites like Save Star Wars (nothing against them). People I’ve come across online who have worked with Lucas have described him as nothing less than a kindhearted, although stubborn man who was very pleasant to work with. Someone who has for years frequented the "stevehoffman.tv" forums had worked for Lucasfilm briefly on the DVDs from 2004 and has described him as such. He also isn’t the monster who wants to physically go out and destroy unaltered copies of Star Wars that many fans think of him as either; hell, he never took action against fan edits or preservations. The same man who worked with Lucasfilm has said that the unaltered film footage is still existing, and duplicates and digital copies are still preserved, it’s just that with all the changes and Special Edition crap Lucas was doing he truly didn’t have the time or desire to restore the original versions. As much as I wish that were not his attitude, it doesn’t make him a bad man or even necessarily an unethical man. Yes he has done many petty and very nonsensical things, but we shouldn’t judge him any longer now that there is nothing left for him to do. He’s out of the picture, he can’t ‘right his wrongs’ or do anything else with the franchise, so I say let him be.

I guess I am glad that they tried to go a different route with Kylo Ren rather than make him a clone of Darth Vader, I just think it’s a little hard for me to take him seriously because of how he came across as being a young brat. I think he was at his best with the mask on, but he just wasn’t intimidating without it. Maybe that’s the point though, I’ll have see it again to be sure. I also wasn’t thrilled with Emperor Snoke being CGI. Not because of the way the CGI looks but more because I think the main villain needs to be a real person. It’s difficult for me to be intimidated by a guy that looks like a fish.

So will the v2.0 be cleaning up the 35mm footage in general, or will it only be focusing on specific errors such as the flickering ships at the Ewok Celebration and the lack of vanishing TIE fighters at 37:14 or at frame number 53578?

It was the final release of the OOT on home media, up until they were released again in 2006. The GOUT was insulting, but it was a release of the unaltered films on DVD. Had he still stood by his belief that the original films should never be seen ever again and would eventually deteriorate with the VHS tapes, then he would not have released the GOUT.

Either way, Lucas’ opinions on the OOT can be discussed forever, but regarding the rumors spread by that man a few months ago, I don’t trust him either. I just thought that his comments sounded plausible and made sense given that if a 4K restoration of the SE would require reconstructing or redoing the CGI, and that maybe if they made a new version they’d take advantage of that opportunity to release a set including multiple versions of the films.

I remember the thought crossing my mind before seeing him, “what if I get there and it’s the kid from AOTC”, but thankfully it was the Empire Boba Fett

I agree with TV’s Frink in that this movie will not end up like TPM in a few years. This movie, while it had its faults, still certainly has a lot of great moments in it that are undeniably thrilling. I’m not the biggest fan of TFA, but I definitely understand why people think it’s great.

In other similar videos from the past month it is clear that George is bitter about what’s happened with Star Wars, not just with Disney but with the backlash he got for the prequels and the Special Editions. I hope he does go and make those experimental films he wanted to make for so long! Maybe now he can move on and make the films he’s passionate about.

That’s interesting about Qui Gon. I don’t care much for watching animatics or storyboards so I must have skipped over it on the BD.

I did see a lovely interview with the cast of TFA on whether or not Han Shot first on the website Collider in which all of them (except for the apathetic Harrison Ford) enthusiastically agreed that Han Shot first! I won’t post the link just because, while it doesn’t discuss TFA, it’s still connected to the film and I don’t want to risk violating the spoiler policy, but I’d recommend you all check it out as it’s pretty funny.

Well of course it’s unacceptable if that is all that they release, I was just wondering that if this were true would they take advantage of the fact that a new version has been created to release some kind of Bladerunner=esque thing including at the least both unaltered and new versions or perhaps all versions

I know this subject has been discussed at length before, I just don’t recall that Faraci commentary and thought it might be interesting food for though

LexX said:

Does anyone here own the 2015 BD Saga set? Does it still have Fox logos in TESB and ROTJ? Or is it 100% similar to the 2011 set, with no Disney connection anywhere?

I don’t own that set but I believe the logos are still intact because Fox still distributed it. The logos are only gone on the digital iTunes versions.

By the way, was that scene with Qui Gon communicating with Yoda actually filmed, or was it just planned or scripted but never came to fruition? I had never actually heard of that deleted scene before.

Jeremy Bulloch - Boba Fett
Peter Mayhew - Chewy

Thats all

SilverWook said:

Maybe not the best analogy, but other cruel regimes copy their methods to this day. How is it implausible chunks of the Empire survived long enough to rebuild? It was a good enough idea for the EU…

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Remnant

That was actually one of my favorite parts of the film. I loved that the Empire was still around in a similar form. The Nationalist government of China that the Communist Party overthrew remained intact for decades with a government set up in Taiwan. I like that the Emperor’s death in Jedi didn’t end the Empire, I mean heck, Caesar’s assassination didn’t end Rome.

Is Return of the Jedi V2.0 free of GOUT footage?

I’m returning to see it some time soon, I think now that I’ve accepted Han Solo’s scene which was my largest grievance, I think I’ll enjoy it more. I can’t help but wish it were better, but in a lot of ways it did what a Star Wars movie should: take the audience on a magical mystery tour of action, mystery, and exotic locales. While I’m not at the moment thrilled with TFA, I am very pleased with the new cast (except Kylo Ren) and with Luke’s role so I am definitely looking forward to Episode VIII

I came across a several month old theory regarding the future of the Star Wars trilogy that involves a new version of the Special Edition. Devin Faraci of Badass Digest - which isn’t necessarily a website I trust, but in this case I’m willing to entertain the possibility - stated in April that a new 4K version of Star Wars (A New Hope specifically) existed in which Han shoots first, claiming multiple sources from Disney. He also said on Twitter: “That 4k STAR WARS where Han shoots first? They also redid (but didn’t remove) the CG Jabba.” This may all be a big load of garbage and yellow journalism, but perhaps it’s true. This either means that they’re going to leave the SE behind and just bombard us with another round of revisionism, or perhaps we’ll get some big, expensive-ass box set along the lines of Blade Runner for the 40th anniversary that includes the all-important OOT! His rumour of the revamped 4K SE makes sense given that the CGI from previous Special Editions would have to be redone/reconstructed for 4K, but he also once said that Fox owned the OT and wouldn’t release the unaltered versions until Lucas died, and before that he claimed that the OOT would be released with TFA… Again, not necessarily the most trustworthy or consistent source all of the time. We’ll see I guess.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

I get what you’re saying, actually. But short of JJ shunning modern cameras and effects and only using outdated techniques from the 70s, what are you gonna do? I’d go see a 100% retro Star Wars VII with models and matte paintings but I don’t think modern audiences would accept that, which would mean the film would flop and episodes VIII and IX would never happen.

One thing I do think they could have done is stick to puppets instead of CG characters. That would have made it feel more like Star Wars, in my opinion.

Oh I completely understand. I meant more that I think my own personal definition of how the franchise should look just isn’t going to happen. I think that if they actually tried to recreate the 1970s Star Wars it would’ve been a disaster and people, understandably so, would not have accepted that. I think it’s more of my own disconnect with the franchise at this point that hindered my enjoyment.

I should clarify that after sleeping on it and reconsidering things I think I really did underestimate the movie, and I enjoyed watching it until what I felt was an unsatisfying end to one of my favorite characters in all of fiction. I had to vent on some of my grievances after being frustrated by the abrupt death of Han; up until that point I was actually really pleased with most of it, albeit with some gripes here and there. I would say that it was somewhere between a 6 or 7 out of 10 after taking a step back and looking at the whole movie not considering my main complaint. I need to see it again and maybe it will grow on me, the action scenes were certainly exciting and felt much more real than the prequels, specifically the lightsaber duel. It also didn’t help my experience that a screaming infant was somewhere in the theatre, but thankfully they left halfway through. I also thought Harrison Ford was good throughout the whole movie as it really felt like I was watching Han Solo (which was not the case with Indy in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull), and I loved Luke’s reveal at the end along with the concept of Luke being in hiding and the rebels looking for him. The three new main protagonists were very good too so I’m optimistic about future installments. After rereading my previous post it came across that I hated the movie, which is not the case, and I will be seeing it again sometime within the next few weeks to reappraise it.

This movie was lightyears ahead of the prequels, which let’s keep in mind is not impressive given the quality of the PT. After being really pretty angry after leaving the theatre I started to mellow out, but now I’m pissed off again; maybe it’s just because I’m bipolar. I actually think that Han Solo’s demise is what ruined the movie for me. I’m not bothered by the fact he was killed, I just hated that it was so pointless and ultimately lame (in my opinion of course). It wasn’t heroic and it wasn’t with a fight, it was just his dumbass son being a coward and liar. It really soured the movie for me because up until that point it had been pleasant enough (although pretty shallow), but that just made me so mad that I couldn’t help but rip apart the movie for all of the problems that I had noticed but was willing to forgive before then. This is a sad comparison but it really reminds me of Halloween Resurrection starring Busta Rhymes, where the beloved main character of the franchise was killed in a completely anticlimactic way. I also will agree that with the exception of the Empire’s design and the callbacks, it really didn’t feel like Star Wars. It just felt really off and almost completely lacked all of the religious element regarding the force specifically that the OT had, even going so far as to attach some sort of cosmic importance to Luke’s blue lightsaber, which neither Luke or Vader cared about losing in Empire so it couldn’t have been that important. I did enjoy some of the humor though.

I think the ultimate problem that keeps this movie from being enjoyable for me is that I don’t think Star Wars translates well into the 21st century. The visuals, other than recycled designs from the OT, just did not feel like Star Wars to me. Maybe it just all looked too polished or something. All of the aliens (again, other than the recycled designs and the old lady) just looked fat and ugly and lacked all charm of the original cantina scene. Star Wars and Empire just scream 1970s filmmaking, even though Empire came out in 1980 it was still filmed in 1979. That look of Star Wars and Empire just seems so real and quaint compared to this and I think that its budget and popularity have just made it too big for its own good. I’m not even sure if any of that makes sense as it’s 5:00 in the morning and I’m exhausted, so forgive if it sounds contrived.

I really hate that I’m being so hard on this film because I really did want to love it, and for a little bit I thought I would, but I just can’t get past all of the problems I had with it. Maybe it will grow on me

I honestly found this movie really irritating. It’s more watchable than the prequels but so much of it just pissed me off. Kylo Ren is a brat with a tendency to throw temper tantrums, and his whole character is an uncompelling version of Darth Vader. He looks like a member of the Who and when he inevitably redeems himself in the third part of this trilogy, it’s going to be pretty impossible for me to buy it. Also, how many times are they going to build a damn Death Star? That being said I did enjoy it to a degree, I just really wanted it to be better, and overall I think I’d give it a 4.5 or a 5/10

I’m really glad to hear it. I hope it happens!

CatBus said:

Depends on which “home video” you’re referring to. For those who remember the old CBS FOX P&S VHS tapes, that thread pretty well does recreate home video colors. The “before” would have been more-or-less the THX remasters, so I guess younger people could think of those as “the home video look” too (but, for the record, the old VHS colors may have had their issues, but at least they didn’t give everyone purple skin like the THX remasters…). Either way, I’m not so nostalgic that I’m not personally delighted to finally be rid of all the various ways home video can get the colors wrong, so I guess my bias is showing.

As I said, I know that the intent of the project is not to preserve theatrically inaccurate aspects of the trilogy, but I suggest that Harmy should consider the fact that the pre-SE version of Star Wars with the Episode IV subtitle is effectively unavailable in high quality medium. The reason I make the request in this thread is because I recall Harmy voicing a willingness to create a version with the Episode IV title crawl before, and was wondering if he were interested in doing anything of the sorts.

I was more optimistic regarding an OOT release than anyone I know, but now that I’ve seen them ignore the obvious chance to release them in correlation with the new movie, I’m starting to lose hope. After re-checking John Landis’ comment, there’s no reason to think that anything he said is based on fact. It really just sounded like him referencing something he read online, or heard in passing. Right now I have no reason to believe that we’ll see the OOT in the near future. I hope I’m wrong though.