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marsthgodofwar

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15-Feb-2020
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Post
#1320496
Topic
Using Film Grain Effects in a Unique way: Prequel Trilogy + Rogue One into a New Prequel Trilogy
Time

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Are you adding grain in a diff program or something? Cause i add grain in after effects on an adjustment layer above the main files. So i can adjust the separate elements independently. You can also change its opacity and other stuff to the grain then. You could color grade the grain this way too if you wanted. Or noise. If i add grain through another video overlay or something, then it doesn’t look as good.

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve just been using Premiere Pro. I dunno much about doing effects.

Post
#1320495
Topic
The Star Wars Saga Conservative Re-editing Ideas Thread
Time

The Original Trilogy

Episode IV - A New Hope

The titles should be adjusted to both match the others in their speed, but also keeping the Episode IV line.

The Biggs reunion from the SE should stay, as well as the new ship effects.

The original Emperor scene from the original ESB could be moved to the beginning of ANH before the titles, with the SE version staying in ESB.

Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back

In my opinion the most overrated SW movie, barring the ST. It is still very good though, so not very much should be cut:

The Luke and Leia kiss scene is terrible. Even before they retconned it to be incestuous, it was in my opinion “very bad.” Some of it is funny though, so perhaps it could just be truncated.

Perhaps the Hoth segment could be rearranged to increase tension.

All of the SE changes were pretty good. Cloud City looks cool now, and I like the blue color of Hoth (though it could be toned down a bit).

Episode VI - Return of the Jedi

Jedi Rocks is cancer, but the froggy dude has a sick solo right before it. I also think that the original Lapti Nek song was pretty bad as well. Maybe just the froggy dude could be kept, or maybe someone could figure out how to edit Lapti Nek and froggy dude together seamlessly.

The Ewok stuff is not bad, barring a couple shots where they tackle stormtroopers.

The stuff with Han being jealous is terrible though, and should be excised.

I am not sure what to do with Victory Celebration. I like both versions a lot. I had an idea for putting Victory Celebration as the cold open for TFA, but I also think it works well as an ending to the Saga.

Post
#1320492
Topic
The Star Wars Saga Conservative Re-editing Ideas Thread
Time

Episode III - Attack of the Clones

George had the right idea when he cut the “droid speak” scene. This is one of the few places where he should have gone further with the cutting. The comedy sequence with the elevators and R2 does not fit the tone of the movie at all, and it stalls in a movie that is usually very good about not wasting time. It should cut from before Obi-Wan gives R2 the communicator to the first Grievous scene, and from that scene directly to the Jedi entering the throne room.

Because I cut the ending from this movie and put it at the end of II, this movie needs an ending. Perhaps some of the Vader stuff from R1, and R1’s ending, could be put at the end of this one. I don’t particularly care for the CGI Carrie Fischer, but I think it works far better as an ending to the final movie in the saga than it did in the spinoff.

Much of the problem with the prequels is less in bad scenes, and more in them being arranged poorly. Subtle rearrangement is our most powerful weapon as editors, as it keeps the scenes intact as we remember them, only presenting them in a more ideal order.

The Yoda vs. Emperor fight could have a couple scenes cut, but for sure the force trickery in the Senate room should be kept.

Post
#1320490
Topic
The Star Wars Saga Conservative Re-editing Ideas Thread
Time

Episode II - Jar Jar’s Big Adventure

The final scene from Revenge of the Sith, where Obi-Wan gives Luke to the Berus, should be in this movie instead. The young Berus only appear in this film, and the scene was shot during the production of II anyway. It also helps tie the Saga together, as you see the start of Luke’s story, followed by Anakin’s as a young adult. Possibly it could be placed before the title, after A long time ago… .

Post
#1320488
Topic
The Star Wars Saga Conservative Re-editing Ideas Thread
Time

This is meant to be an alternative to the Radical Redux threads, where here the focus is more on what is easily doable, and deviates least from the source material. The goal of the ideas in this thread should be less to reimagine and change the core of the movies, and more to compile a canon of changes that are generally agreeable to people who both like and dislike each of the films.

General ideas that you don’t have to follow to contribute to the thread:

Here are some principles I have in mind for what makes a good change, loosely based on Hal9000’s idea for 3 balanced goals for his prequel edits.

  1. Bend the movies to the story continuity of the Saga as a whole, but maintain the character of each movie.

  2. Keep the edits conservative so that the final product looks less like a bad movie that was truncated, and more like a good, well-edited movie. “The edits should be viable as films on their own.”

  3. Respect the intent of every decision, in spite of its execution.

This means that: TPM will still be a movie for 9 year olds, AotC will still be a movie about a romance and a weird mystery, RotS will still be an action movie with a great story, RotJ will still be about Ewoks. This also means that changes to the titles and the crawls should respect the original movies, rather than be radically changed. My main criticism of fan-edits that I have seen is their titles: In their attempts to replace the corny but sincere original titles with something better, they usually make it worse by trying so hard to be taken seriously. Also, they shouldn’t be shorter than 2 hours.

What about the deleted scenes? In my opinion we don’t have any of them in good enough quality to seamlessly blend into the movie. Some of them are really good, especially Padme’s in RotS. The AotC ones can also be used to cut out entirely the droid factory sequence, but I don’t know if that is necessary. Two versions should be made: one with visual fidelity as a priority, featuring no deleted scenes, and another including them as “Extended Workprints” or something (possibly with the regular footage downscaled to match).

The film grain idea I had a while ago (https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Using-Film-Grain-Effects-in-a-Unique-way-Prequel-Trilogy-Rogue-One-into-a-New-Prequel-Trilogy/id/71281) does a lot to improve the digitally-shot movies.

The goal of this thread is to create, collectively, the definitive fan edits of the entire saga. They should not be an individual user’s “personal take” on what would be the best, instead they should be honed to be good enough to please most people, while still being true to their original state.

I will make posts following this one outlining various changes I would make in each of the prequels, and likely a post explaining the smaller changes I would apply to the OT, mostly Empire and Jedi. These posts will be heavily edited and expanded as more ideas come, from myself and especially from others, either through their posts in this thread or my lifting of ideas from their edits. I encourage everyone interested to make their own posts similar to mine centered around an individual movie, to be expanded whenever they want.

Post
#1319831
Topic
Worst Edit Ideas
Time

ray_afraid said:

marsthgodofwar said:

Take the Star Wars radio dramas and make them into animated films.

How, in all of the Hell, is this a “Bad Idea”?

It’s not “Bad” it’s more impossible. Not entirely so, but I imagine nobody would care enough to try to do that.

The first one is 6 and a half hours long. Empire is 5 hours, and Jedi is 3. That is a lot of animation.

Much of the radio drama is filler as well. The first 3 episodes of A New Hope are all set before the story of the film, and lots of stuff is added. I am sure some of it is worthwhile, but I think it is too much content to be worthwhile to animate.

Were it to be done, the audio would have to be cut down considerably, to keep it interesting to watch, and less work to animate. If we could convince Disney to waste a bunch of money animating it in 3D like the Clone Wars, that would surely be interesting. It would be a great resource for fanediting, at the very least.

I just wish the prequels had been given a radio drama, maybe they could have recorded better dialogue. At least 3P0 has some lines that could be used in the prequels, though I have no idea what good adding more 3P0 to the films would do.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Hey, I’d be down for feature length versions of Galaxy of Adventures.

I’ve just looked that up, that looks pretty sweet actually, and more on the “doable” side of things.

Post
#1318950
Topic
Making the 9 film saga cohesive
Time

What if we added a brief flashback/catchup scene after “A long time ago…” and before the logo/title?

Return of the Jedi could keep the Yub Nub ending, but The Force Awakens could have the Victory Celebration ending at the beginning (start with Vader’s funeral), showing all the different worlds and trying to tie the movies together. Also it lets George’s vision for the series with the SE be a part of the movies, but doesn’t replace the original ending.

Anakin Starkiller said:
How 'bout adding the Emperor to ANH as well

I have an idea for this as well. Keeping with the pre-crawl scenes, the original ESB emperor scene could be made to be the beginning of ANH, with the redone SE scene staying in 5. They have slightly different dialogue so its not just a repeat, and it adds the earliest version of the Emperor to the original. The original could benefit from a couple added scenes, this one, and the final Biggs scene from the SE.

Here is a full list of possible cold opens for each SW film:

I - No idea.
II - The final scene from III could be put here instead, with Obi-Wan giving Luke to the Berus, as a sort of flash forward. Maybe also a scene from Phantom Menace where Anakin says bye to his mom.
III - The last two scenes of II would work nicely, with the effective birth of the empire and the wedding scene. Also, the scene with Anakin and Yoda could work here. You could also put the battle at the end of Rogue One.
IV - The original Emperor scene from 5, with the SE one in its place in 5
V - The ceremony at the end of IV could be put here, but it’s not necessary
VI - Yoda could be moved here?
VII - Victory Celebration
VIII - Rey finding Luke could work here, or Han Solo’s death. Maybe this would be a good place for Palpatine buildup.
IX - Palpatine buildup, or maybe the extended lightspeed skipping scenes we might get, as a tie in to the Victory Celebration.

Addendum: Title changes

I usually dislike edits that change the titles of the movies, because the alternate titles are usually too serious and not corny enough to be “Star Wars.”

Here, I propose some title changes that would be an improvement, without losing the Star Warsiness.

Episode II - Jar Jar’s Big Adventure
This was the original title for II, and even though Jar Jar’s role was significantly reduced, the title is funny in an ironic way. Jar Jar’s role in this movie is instrumental to Palpatine’s plot, and giving the random comedic sidekick the agency to change the direction of this universe is a great idea.

Episode III - Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith was in my opinion the weakest of the original 6 titles. I like the homage to Return of the Jedi’s alternate title (Return was the original but Revenge was for most of the production) but “Sith” isn’t really a strong word. If it had been established in all of the Star Wars movies it would be good, but the OT just references the Dark Side. Also, Attack of the Clones is a horrifically cheezy name that I think is really funny for a movie as dark as RotS (with child murdering).

Episode VII - Shadows of the Empire
This was considered for TFA but it was already used on some EU thing. I don’t care about the EU and it is a good title, and greatly helps TFA in contextualizing it within the saga.

Episode IX needs a better title as well.

For the Sequel Trilogy, since they fail to connect themselves to the original saga, perhaps they could benefit from changing to Arabic numerals (Episode 7, Episode 8, Episode 9).

Post
#1318917
Topic
Making the 9 film saga cohesive
Time

For starters, the sequel trilogy needs to be made to be more cohesive on its own.

The Last Jedi is the only one of the three that actually tied back to the original saga (apart from resurrecting the villain in 9), and 7 and 9 should be bent to be more in line with it.

Palpatine should be built up over the entire trilogy. I know that the OT doesn’t have the Emperor until 5, but TFA is too weak to stand on its own without it. If this were done, he would be in every Star Wars except for the original.

Hopefully we get the extended cut of 9, so we have more to cut down from. Really, if we can make 9 into a better sequel to 8, our only problem would be 7.

As for the prequels, they just need to be edited better, cut down to about 2 hours each before credits.

Editing the OT to be more consistent is a good idea as well. Cutting scenes from Jedi where Han is out of character would improve it a lot, and cutting the terrible scene where Leia kisses Luke (which was bad even before Jedi came out) would tie it together well. Some of the SE changes that aren’t terrible would do well being kept, such as Victory Celebration and extended flying bits, though I am not sure about Hayden at the end of Jedi.

Post
#1318758
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

What if we changed the format of the titles? It doesn’t have to be radical. I don’t usually like it when prequel re-edits change the titles, because the titles of the prequel films (especially 1 and 2) are uniquely corny and stupid to the point of being great fun, and are all very “Star Wars.” “The Force Awakens” is the weakest title, and is the only one I would change, to “Shadows of the Empire” (already been used, who cares).

Back to format, I think the new movies would benefit from having the numbers being changed from roman numerals to arabic. Episode 7: Shadows of the Empire, followed by Episode 8: The Last Jedi, concluded with Episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker. This de-emphasizes the “Saga” and lets the movies stand on their own as weak sequels to a 6 movie saga, rather than completely out of place.

Comparing Star Wars to The Godfather: The OT and the PT are equivalent of Parts 1 and 2, with the ST being Part 3. Obviously Star Wars: Episode II - Jar Jar’s Big Adventure is much greater than some petty crime drama, but there is a certain wholeness of what is now the original 6 that is absent in the sequels, apart from Last Jedi.

Post
#1317763
Topic
The Usual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

The stories of the Sequel Trilogy don’t hold up because they are completely disconnected from the original 6 movies. The attempts to reconnect them by bringing back Palpatine (and making Rey a Palpatine) did not do enough to build an actual connection. They are also generally paced terribly, all three. Rise of Skywalker should have released as the 3 hour version; assuming that happens at some point, here is my proposal for a reworking, that could possibly be done as a fan edit:

Episode 7(no roman numerals because its too hard for normal people, and it signifies a certain departure and non-continuity, and its nature as a sequel to a series of 6 movies): Shadows of the Empire (It is just a good title, forget the book or whatever)

The introduction should be rearranged to flow better, and the comedy (and cringe scenes) should be cut. Acts 2, 3, and 4 out of four should be greatly truncated, time skips are acceptable. The second half of the movie should be devoted to all of Luke on the island, and a greatly truncated half of the Last Jedi, ending before Krait.

Episode 8: The Last Jedi

Begin with Krait, and end 1 hour through the Rise of Skywalker.

Episode 9: The First Skywalker

Finish out RoS, end with a scene showing Rey going back and time to be Shmi Skywalker. Cut from “there was no father” to the part where Kylo Ren is force healing Rey, with his hand on her stomach. It won’t be a good ending, but it will be an ending, and it will tie together the whole saga (not so) nicely (which is better than not at all). Maybe somehow have a real Sky-walking scene or something, this could have been Kathleen Kennedy’s idea for the ending. I dunno, who cares. Who cares is better than “I don’t care.”

Post
#1310556
Topic
Using Film Grain Effects in a Unique way: Prequel Trilogy + Rogue One into a New Prequel Trilogy
Time

Sir Ridley said:

The shots look good, the grain is a good idea. If grading the grain works for you then go for it, but it limits your possibilities a bit. You can’t adjust shadows or highlights separately, you can’t adjust individual colors and you can’t adjust saturation.

Adjustments can always be made to the source video in addition, I’ve just found that doing so always takes away some of what image is there, where grading the grain doesn’t as much.

Post
#1310392
Topic
Using Film Grain Effects in a Unique way: Prequel Trilogy + Rogue One into a New Prequel Trilogy
Time

IlFanEditore said:

Wow!

Thank you. Just in case you, or anyone else, would be interested in how this is done, I’ve just found free film grain overlays from shutterstock and dropped them above the timeline in Premiere Pro. You have to set the opacity to Overlay, but then you can do whatever color grading (I stick mostly to temperature and tint changes, as well as exposure, and some other stuff for individual shots). Its good because it doesn’t wash out colors, in fact it does the opposite in some cases.

Post
#1310321
Topic
Using Film Grain Effects in a Unique way: Prequel Trilogy + Rogue One into a New Prequel Trilogy
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

Just a point, film grain is distracting and takes you out of the experience, regardless if it’s natural or artificial. Sure, the CGI backgrounds are obviously CGI, but why not make them a bit “blurry” (but not too much) to make them feel less fake?

ChainsawAsh said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Just a point, film grain is distracting and takes you out of the experience, regardless if it’s natural or artificial. Sure, the CGI backgrounds are obviously CGI, but why not make them a bit “blurry” (but not too much) to make them feel less fake?

Counterpoint: I disagree with this entirely. Film grain is not distracting and does not take me out of the experience. In fact, it tends to draw me in more.

Obviously it’s possible to go too far to the point where it is distracting, but in general, the lack of any type of film grain will distract me more than its presence.

I agree with both of you to some extent. I love the look of 4K77 with the sandiness of Tatooine’s footage, it really sucks you in. I also feel that anyone who decides to watch an Attack of the Clones edit and sees film grain on an obviously shot-on-digital movie will think it is stupid. My use of film grain aims not to trick the audience into thinking it is shot on film, it is more to enhance the visuals. I was struck by not only how much more gritty and moody some of the shots looked with film grain + color correction, but by how much better it sold the motion of CGI backgounds.

IlFanEditore said:

I’d really really like to see some screenshots or clips.

I will be sure to do so in the next couple of days. Apologies for not having anything ready to show off. It won’t be too much trouble to whip something up, I’ll probably just make a compilation of some of the edited scenes + the ones that look good with film grain.

Post
#1310311
Topic
Using Film Grain Effects in a Unique way: Prequel Trilogy + Rogue One into a New Prequel Trilogy
Time

I have been working on an Attack of the Clones edit that has been going very well, leading me to think of how it would fit in a larger, alternate form of the Prequels. This new version of the trilogy has not taken a complete shape in my mind quite yet, but here is what I have figured out so far:

Episode III’:
-Begins half way through the original film
-Will follow Darth Vader before A New Hope, and after his turn to the dark side
-Will likely be broken up by an intermission of sorts
-(Possibly) the opening to Rogue One will be in the first half (when Jen is a kid) with the second half being made up of a shorter version of R1

Episode II’:
-Ends half way through Episode III, likely split up by an intermission of sorts
-Is already cut down from Episode II
-Not a lot drastic to be done, just tighten it up significantly
-Ends possibly with the Opera scene, or maybe with Anakin’s fall

I like a lot of Episode II for some reason. In my opinion it is the best of the Prequels by far. This is probably due to my good use of the “scene finder” part of the DVD when I was a child, and skipping an hour in. The first hour of AotC is terrible, and much of the ending is bad as well, but there is a more interesting movie buried in the second hour of the film.

Much of what makes AotC unbearable is the horrible dialogue. George Lucas dialog is best when it is off screen, and cutting bad diologue immediately makes the first hour much more enjoyable. It has been said, “show, don’t tell.” George Lucas with his prequel trilogy tells a horrible story, but shows a good one. You just have to cut out a lot of the talking and let the story shine through.

On the Film Grain effect:
I have discovered a very easy way to make the prequel films look much better through the application of film grain. I have always thought that artificial film grain was stupid and a waste of time, until I started experimenting with using it for an alternative purpose. Rather than just use it to make the film look like it was shot on film when it wasn’t, I have used it as a very effective means of applying color correction (through correcting the grain effect and NOT the actual scene), and grit, to almost any scene in the prequels.

CGI shots that look like digital vomit can be transformed into dynamic real-looking(ish) shots that look and feel like classic Star Wars. It is amazing to me how little work it has taken me to fix so many of the problems with the digital effects. The cool shots at the opening of Episode II are made to look like they belong in a Star Wars film. All of the scenes with horrible obvious bluescreen backgrounds (see: Obi Wan talking to Mace Windu and Yoda in that giant cgi room, or Anakin and Padme frolicking in the field surrounded by waterfalls). It somehow tricks the eye into following specific points in the background as if they were real 3D environments.

Here are some screenshots, but much of the effect is seen when the background is in motion, so I will have to upload a clip.

The intermissions:
Rather than try to shoddily piece together the end of AotC with the opening to RotS (forgoeing a time skip that has resulted in Anakin’s hair getting way better and Obi Wans getting worse) I feel that an intermission could help to bridge the gap in a non-intrusive way. Perhaps I could play the end credits music over some concept art or something. Either way, both of the finished films would have a significant time-skip half way through, which needs to be addressed somehow.
As both of these films would be considerably longer than 2 hours a piece (Episode II’ comes from a 2:22 movie and 1:15 of another for a total of 3 hours and 17 minutes, to be cut down as much as possible but not likely shorter than 2 and a half hours; Episode III’ comes from 1:05 of III and the 2:13 length of Rogue One

If anyone has any ideas at all, I would greatly appreciate them.