It's a shame that no one has done the red book edits as HD/Blue versions yet. If I ever get a chance I might do something close to them myself though.
Ah cool I see.
eldusto84 said:
In preparation for the March 24 release of Battle of Five Armies, I decided to start making my box art for JRR TOLKIEN'S THE HOBBIT. Here's the direct link to the image:
http://www.maple-films.com/uploads/3..._dvd_cover.jpg
I scanned and modified the 1966 leather-bound edition of The Hobbit novel for the design here. If you'd like to read my blog post as well, here is the link to that. Let me know what you think!
http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit
what about BluRay?
Would a production as early as 1977 that was an animation have any video effects added after telecline? I know that was the case for Doctor Who the TV movie in 1996 (to much annoyance as being a Who fan I would have liked it in HD on BluRay and running at 24fps no pulldown) and the BBC rightly requested that it was converted to PAL using PAL speedup so that the video wasn't juddery, as the first copy was a regular standards convert of the 60Hz NTSC version.
As far as the Hobbit is concerned I guess if there really is only one country that got the PAL transfer that it might have only got a reverse pull-down and speedup to 25fps incased in 50Hz interlaced, or worse a regular standards convert from NTSC 60HZ straight to PAL 50Hz using interpolating.
In which case I would agree that the NTSC version is the only good copy, I would certainly say that about Doctor Who 1996 TV movie that they should have just released the NTSC version worldwide as PAL countries can happily pay NTSC DVDs.
Getting the Spanish version would be good to find out though it might turn out that it has the extra vertical resolution?
IMDB says it was made on 35mm film are you sure the PAL version isn't taken straight from the film and sped up to 25 fps? I guess that the PAL version could have been taken from the NTSC version by removing the pull-down, speeding up to 25fps and interpolating from 480 to 576, I guess you would need the PAL version and NTSC version and check the exact same frames against each other?
I think you have done something similar to what the Doctor Who restoration team did to restore colour to some of the episodes whereby they took the luminance from a high quality monochrome source (the original 16 mm b&w telerecordings) and a VHS or Betamax colour palette only.
Of course they were working with a source that was made with a PAL colour video camera, but that separation is likely to still be there. It would be harder to do if the film was on BluRay but likely the colour would be great on that anyway.
I don't know what software you would need to take the chrominance of one source and luminance of another (as I'm sure it can be done digitally now), but back in the 90s the Doctor Who restoration team had D1 VCRs to work with. I will see if I can find the link about this.
here is the article I was talking about: http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/colouris.htm
and it came from: http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/
they just have an odd design of website on that site!
Of course as the Hobbit was film material and I don't know what version you are working with PAL or NTSC (although I assume that the VHS and DVD copies you have are the same type as each other) you could try working in 24fps as that is what the original film would have been, or 23.976 if you are using NTSC copies? Even if you are looking to have an NTSC copy at the end it might be better to edit from PAL DVD sources as that would be higher resolution but it wouldn't matter if the colour was from an NTSC VHS as that will actually have more colour information than PAL VHS anyway! Just remember to work in 24fps then output to what you want afterwards then it should be the highest quality you can get in both NTSC and or PAL!
In fact to keep the speed and the resolution higher upscale to 1080p 24 and add in NTSC DVD audio and it should be great!
I know it won't be actually HD quality, but 1080p 24 is the only way you can keep the resolution as high quality as the PAL transfer and keep the running speed the same as the film was at the cinema, whist also not having the 2:3 pulldown artifacts of NTSC.
Ah I see ok ty
In HD?
I wouldn't mind an edit that combined name, night, day, time and the last day along with Clarence and the whisper men and deleted scene of time of the doctor all as one long episode or 'film' called: extended 50th anniversary Doctor Who special.
You would need to use the day of the doctor opening and closing titles and credits, but adapt the end credits so that all the cast of all parts are included.
The only cutting allowed in my book would be cleaning up the edits so they flow seamlessly from one part to another meaning no bits of music from titles and credits that are now right in the middle of the episode ect.
This edit would require ether someone using the 25fps 50Hz 1080i version of Day of the Doctor that was sent out as a free replacement for people who have the 50th anniversary collectors edition box set, or speed the other version back up, but the replacement version that is at the right speed would be a better version for the edit.
Erik Pancakes said:
Off the top of my head, from the extended editions of 1 and 2, I'd definitely include:
An Unexpected Journey
- The small "feels like magic" exchange between Bilbo and Gandalf
- Bilbo seeing the Shards of Narsil and talking to Elrond about staying in Rivendell
- Bilbo and Thorin overhearing Gandalf and Elrond talking about the "strain of madness" in Thorin's bloodline
The Desolation of Smaug
- Most of the added Beorn stuff, especially if he's featured more in the EE of Five Armies - of course, since I'd probably cut Dol Guldur and most (or all) of the White Council, I'd cut the Necromancer and Dol Guldur talk from these scenes
- All of the extended Mirkwood scenes, including Gandalf's mention of a "dark enchantment" in the river
- Bilbo vouching for Thorin in Laketown
- The short bit of Bilbo, Balin and Thorin talking about the woods and birds that used to be on the hills by the Mountain
Other than that, I agree that most of the EE additions don't do much to help the film(s), but all of these seem very worthwhile to me, even for a single-film edit. (Plus, Bilbo is in all of these scenes, and is the focus of all except the Beorn and Mirkwood scenes, which, coupled with cutting out a bunch of extraneous crap, helps keep the focus on ... well ... the titular Hobbit.)
Very good I agree those scenes are well worth adding, pacing issues can be put aside a bit with fan edits, just like they were when Jackson started creating the extended editions anyway.
Don't constrain fan edits in ways other than trying to get a cut that is as pure to the book as possible, as that is what I think most people want with theses films.
What about the extended editions of the films? They had some good content like the dwarfs being introduced to Baorn and I think some extra content with Bilbo and Smaug? Wouldn't it be better to wait until the extended edition of the third film is out and look at both versions of all 3 films for editing purposes?
TheBoost
The old 90 minute Rankin/Bass Hobbit moved along at a pretty brisk pace without leaving TOO much out or adding lots of extra padding so still remains my favorite adaptation so far, but I still think Del Toro (or PJ) could have made one or even two REALLY amazing movies from this story on par with the LOTR films IF the focus actually remained on the title character of Bilbo instead of on Alfrid, Legolas, Kili/Tauriel, the white Orc, the White Council, etc.
As it is, splitting this story into three bloated films has really killed this version as far as I'm concerned--a lot of the extra stuff in the films could have been added back in for the extended editions but should probably not have been left in for the more streamlined theatrical versions.
I'm really looking forward to watching a shorter one or two movie edit and think it will do wonders for my prequelesque feelings of mehness about the current PJ versions.
I'm contemplating doing a edit that matches as best I can the pacing and events of the cartoon version. I might even make it full-screen.
when you say 'full screen' that you mean 4:3? If so you would have to crop it down a lot and it would look bad, even if you are thinking of cropping to 16:9 you would still have to crop ether way its not going to look as good!
Yes I quite agree having the best edit possible is the aim.
Although with so many around and the Hobbit films not being out on DVD/BluRay long nothing is refined yet and its a case of picking the best bits from different edits, at the moment that is.
Enjoy I would like to know what Kerr thinks? The person who did it is apparently working on refining it, if/when they share me an updated version I will pass it on.
denstore said:
Any plans on making a recut of the Hobbit?
i know it would be impossible to make a purist edition, but maybe someone with the knowhow could make better version at least? Things I really would like to see changed is the pointless "running around and and falling on top of each other" chases that seem to be a typical Jackson trademark (King Kong being the benchmark). The chase in the gigantic goblin caves, Mirkwood spiders, the barrel scene, and most of the fight with Smaug, including the gold dipping. Havn't seen the third movie, but I'm sure there's plenty of face palm moments there as well.
Re a purest version of the Hobbit I have seen a very good version someone over on fanedit.org is making. I have it on my dropbox so if you give me you email (by private message if you dont want it displayed publicly) I will send you a link.
This version is only up to the end of DoS Hobbit film and its a little rough, but its as close to a purest version as you can get right now.
I have now watched Kerr's Red book edits and love the way they follow the book that much more than the original films, without the inter-cutting just as the actual book goes.
I hope that one day someone will do something similar with the HD material but with improvements, like working with the Hobbit films too so that some of that material could be put back into LotR and a clean Hobbit edit that just follows the book as much as is possible with no back story. I dont know if that would mean an inbetween film that uses back story bits that dot fit in ether the Hobbit or LotR, or if the material could all go into LotR, but ether way it would be good to use what works as long as it is middle earth cannon or doesnt detract from it in any way.
I would like to see the Narsil to Andúril reforging take place in FotR before they leave Rivendell, so its believed that Aragorn has it from that time onwards. Also with that an edit of RotK I have seen that has Aragorn using the Palantir at Dunham before leaving on the paths of the dead, where he sees a vision of the ships that Sauron is sending to attack Gondor. It looks like he is using it in a tent its very clever!
There is other bits like the scenes with Frodo in the Hobbit (that shouldnt be there of course!), some of which could be used in FotR, like putting the sign on Bag End gate for Bilbo's party, then he appears to go off to see Gandalf. Some bits of that might not be appropriate but it would still be kinda cool!
To be honest I would love to do it myself as I have all the BluRay's, but I dont have the kit to edit it. I dont know if the edit this thread is about is going to be like that but if it comes close it will still be good!
Is it possible to release a trailer of the work that has been done as a teaser as we have to wait another year yet before its all ready?
Thanks its working great so far soon I should have all 6 of Kerr's red book edits, which are very well done!
Hal 9000 said:
Well, a few things I removed for Sharkey's Edition are reinstated, including more Arwen stuff in TTT along with Aragorn being separated from the pack. Kerr has done some great stuff for ROTK, including use of the palantir. He and I have been keeping these things under wraps and collaborating together, so I don't want to spill too many beans. The most concise thing I can say is that while it is less strictly "purist" than our former efforts, it's still respectful of the books and of the original films themselves.
Ah so not strictly a 'book edit' then unless you and Kerr have 2 versions planned?
It sounds interesting though!
I found Kerr's Red book edits, well most of them, I couldn't get book one, so it starts at Rivendell.
If you know of a link to part one could you email it to me please at lotr@jandcwoods.co.uk
Hal 9000 said:
That's the idea. It should be something a Tolkien fan would enjoy and appreciate, especially compared to how the Hobbit "trilogy" turned out. Like stomping on your foot to relieve a toothache.
I dont suppose you could give us a brief idea of the edits, cuts and rearrangements you and Kerr have made for these fan edits? It would give us a taster of what is to come when you publish late next year or early 2016 ect.
Hal 9000 said:
Well, they'll all be based on the BluRays, so it'll be ~24fps for sure.
That sounds really good as they will look good in any country! and they are like the original LotR and close to the original (at least just half) of what the Hobbit is!
I cant wait as it seems like it will be so much better than PJ's edits!
Hal 9000 said:
Kerr has things laid out and in place for the most part, and it'll be out sometime after BoFA:EE. And Sharkey's is still kicking around torrent sites.
Oh cool I had a feeling that we might have to wait till BoFA:EE is out, Im guessing just in case there is more content that could go in LotR edits and of course to finish off the Hobbit. I like the idea of having two versions of the Hobbit film, one just like the book and the other including back story.
Oh and having the 'concerning Hobbits' section (without any of Frodo and Gandalf) from FotR inserted into the beginning of the Hobbit.
Just a technical note will the edits be in 24fps (or 23.97fps) or in the American ~60Hz? As the 24fps would be better!
Oh and as far as torrents go I normally steer clear of them as they can be a security risk! I would like to see a direct download of them why are torrents so popular?
Hal 9000 said:
Well the project has evolved as its gone on. Its not really "Sharkey's" edit since Kerr is doing the actual editing this time, with me more as a consultant. While we both have a deap-seated admiration for Tolkien's work, this project won't be *as* purist-minded.
I'm not sure how they'll be distributed, but there certainly will be a dlc file at fanedit.info for them.
As far as the existing Sharkey's edits, a little bit of searching on the internet should yield them.
The links to the Sharkey edits have gone it seems although I will keep trying for them. Have you any idea of the timing of your project? Are you waiting until the last Hobbit film is out in extended edition to see if anything can go into Lord of the Rings? If so it would probably look the best it can.
doubleofive said:
Peter Jackson on the two-film edit:
The split was going to occur where Bard [Luke Evans] appears on the river bank as a silhouetted figure with a bow. So the whole barrel sequence was going to be the climax.
Just in case someone wants to re-create the alternate universe two-movie edit.
that would be cool along with cutting some bits out that weren't in ether the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings books, it might make for two roughly 3 hour films!
Hi like others here I am new to fan edits I haven't seen one yet but would love to, how are the the new HD versions of the Lord of the Rings films going?
Also if they are ready how will you be sharing these with people?
I would love copies I have all the Lord of the Rings extended editions and the two Hobbit extended editions that are out.