kk650

Have any of you guys checked out my Raiders of the Lost Ark V2 regrade? I'm personally also in the camp that believes that the blu-ray more closely reflects what was shown in the cinema than the japanese WOWOW release that has always seemed far too blue and cold feeling for me.

I did try regrading the WOWOW release to get a more balanced natural looking release of Raiders of the Lost Ark than the blu-ray but I wasn't able to get anything that I was happy with.

hi kitt1987, its been awfully quiet with this project because I've been focused for more than a month solely on creating an IMAX release of Guardians of the Galaxy with the constantly changing left sidebar selectively cropped by the exact amount required on each specific shot throughout the whole film.

It took a hell of a lot of time to create but its now finally finished. I'm very satisfied with how it turned out, not having the left sidebar changing width all the time and distracting from the film is really great, a big improvement on the official blu-ray IMHO. A visually impressive film that reminds me in many ways of Star Wars, an irreverant space opera, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes on to be considered by quite a few people, especially the younger generations, as the Star Wars of this generation.

For those interested in checking this IMAX release out, as always it can be found on tehparadox by searching for 'kk650'.

As for these Star Wars Semi-Specialised Editions, I was really hoping that after 3 months there would be feedback here about the two V2 Semi-Specialised Editions I have already released from those that have seen them. What to people think of the overall colours of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, the image dynamics, the colour/saturation of the lightsabers?

Nothing is set in stone so everybody's thoughts would be very much appreciated. Is there no feedback because everybody likes what they're seeing or is there simply no interest for these Semi-Specialised releases here? I know this site is dedicated to getting the release of the unaltered original trilogy but from the previous pages in this thread I was under the impression that these Semi-Specialised releases interested quite a few members here. I'm very confused by the lack of feedback after 3 months to be honest.

@nightstalkerpoet: Apologies for the delay in replying, been very busy with Guardians of the Galaxy and other releases like Once Upon a Time in America. In all honesty I needed a break as well from Star Wars to be able to take a step back and look at these releases again with fresh eyes. Thank you for your thoughts. You've given me a lot to think about. I'm beginning to believe that a one size fits all approach to the colour grading of these three films might not be the way to go. Looking at those Empire Strikes Back screencaps now with fresh eyes, I believe that I may have been overzealous in removing the blue tint, thereby boosting the yellows more than is necessary.

I agree that fleshtones look correct but the overall balance of the colours are leaning too much towards yellow, giving the appearance of a blanket yellow tint. Looks like I have no choice but to use different colour settings for each of the films and follow my instincts on what looks balanced colourwise.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

kk650 said:

What Adywan achieved with Star Wars Revisited was pretty damn impressive in terms of special effects but he takes too many creative liberties in his Revisited releases for my liking.

I like them as fan-edits -- I expect a fan-edit to change the movie.  War of the Stars changes it even more.  For something true to the original, choose a preservation project.

You misunderstood what I said there. Fan edits change the editing of a film so they are changing the movie, it goes with the territory so I have no problem with that whatsoever.

When you start adding your own content though, like adding your own models into the film, that is what I mean by taking too many creative liberties, that is going too far IMHO.

In my mind that is no longer a fanedit because you are doing more than just editing or colour grading, you're adding new stuff, things that were never in the film to begin with. I have too much respect for the filmmaker's original vision and the craftmanship that went into making the films to watch a version of these classics with new content added by someone else not connected to the original production.

nightstalkerpoet said:

Loved the screencaps for Star Wars... These ESB shots all seem a shade too yellow for my liking, and also makes a few of the shots appear more washed out (the details are there, but less visible). Just throwing in my $.2

Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. The overall colour grading settings for this are pretty much the same as Star Wars, only the image dynamic settings are different, so I didn't want to start making unique overall colour settings for ESB. I did that with my first Semi-Specialised releases, Empire Strikes Back had markedly different colour settings from Star Wars and Return of the Jedi and I always regretted doing that because it made this film feel the odd one out compared to the other two.

My number one aim with these releases this time was to maintain a sense of colour consistency across all three films. That meant using the same overall colour settings across all three films. If Empire Strikes Back looks slightly more yellow than absolutely neccesary in certain scenes I can live with that. For all I know, that's what it looked like in the cinema. Of course, removing a bit of the yellow would mean boosting the blues on Hoth which i'd imagine a lot of people wouldn't like, so there's that to consider as well.

Empire Strikes Back has always been the big unknown for me of the Original Trilogy in terms of colours, there's so much unnatural lighting in it that its very difficult to get a handle on it. I honestly have no idea how exactly this film is meant to look colourwise or how it looked in the cinema. Star Wars and Return of the Jedi are much easier to get to grips with and these colour settings are pretty much spot on for those two IMHO so I'll leave Empire Strikes Back with the same settings just for the sake of maintaining colour continuety.

For the record, I personally really like how Empire Strikes Back looks, its a big improvement colourwise over my first release, fleshtones especially, and it has a nice warm feeling to it.

p.s. is it possible that the washed out look you're refering to is more to do with the reduced contrast than the colours? I reduced the contrast relative to the blu-rays to give the three films more filmic looks, the blu-rays are much too contrasty/digital looking for my liking.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

My favorite fan edits are Adywan's, and War of the Stars.

What Adywan achieved with Star Wars Revisited was pretty damn impressive in terms of special effects but he takes too many creative liberties in his Revisited releases for my liking.

I've never heard of War of the Stars, the name reminds me of the anime Crest of the Stars which I really enjoyed. I'll definately be sure to check it out.

Seems I forgot to add screencap comparisons before (silly of me I know) for the latest Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 release so here they are:

Blu-ray 1:

Regraded 1:

Blu-ray 2:

Regraded 2:

Blu-ray 3:

Regraded 3:

Blu-ray 4:

Regraded 4:

Blu-ray 5:

Regraded 5:

Blu-ray 6:

Regraded 6:

Blu-ray 7:

Regraded 7:

Blu-ray 8:

Regraded 8:

Blu-ray 9:

Regraded 9:

Blu-ray 10:

Regraded 10:

Blu-ray 11:

Regraded 11:

I should also let you guys know that Return of the Jedi is going to be delayed because i've decided to take a break from Star Wars.

I'm currently working on removing the blanket green tint from Egde of Tomorrow, then i'll take a look at Godzilla, many people have complained about the transfer's underexposure so i'll see what I can do.

Laserschwert said:

Erik Pancakes said:

kk650 said:

Agreed. Not only the quality varies widely from shot to shot though, the colours do too. I am too sensitive to sudden changes in colour during films to watch a release with colours constantly changing from shot to shot.

I didn't notice any variation at all in SW 2.5 or ESB 2.0, at least nothing that took me out of the movies.

 That's why they were talking about Harmy's ROTJ 1.0 and not the other two.

No, I was actually talking about Harmy's latest Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back Despecialised Editions, especially Star Wars. I believe Wazzles was refering to those two as well, not ROTJ. Its especially noticable on my professionally colour calibrated monitor but also on my TV. 

After having done a lot of colour grading over the last 2 years I have become more sensitive to sudden changes in colour from shot to shot, so that sort of thing takes me straight out of the film. That's why I put so much importance on consistancy in colour grading with all my regraded releases. Everybody's sensitivity to colours is different so some will notice the sudden shifts in colour from shot to shot, some won't. I do though, it takes me right out of the film, so its a deal breaker for me.

Dark_Jedi's Star Wars GOUT V3 is more consistant colourwise so that why it gets my vote as the best Star Wars fan preservation i've ever seen. I've never seen Puggo's releases so I can't comment on those.

Wazzles said:

Octorox said:

 but when watching Harmy's, nothing every stuck out to me as clearly manipulated or recomposited.

 I disagree with that. While Harmy's is the overall best in terms of quality, it varies widely from shot to shot. If that doesn't bother you, he has the best versions of SW and ESB available. I wouldn't recommend his RotJ until 2.0 comes out, so I would stick to Dark_Jedi's GOUT V3 for that. If you want consistent quality throughout, Dark_Jedi's GOUT V3, even though the quality is piss poor (a problem with the source, not the upscale work).

Agreed. Not only the quality varies widely from shot to shot though, the colours do too. I am too sensitive to sudden changes in colour during films to watch a release with colours constantly changing from shot to shot.

I would personally recommend watching Dark_Jedi's GOUT V3, an impressive release, especially considering that they were using the GOUT as their source. The detail they managed to get out of the GOUT was pretty amazing I must say.

If like myself you some consider some the Special Edition changes to be improvements, like for example the updated x-wing special effects during the Battle of Yavin in Star Wars or the updated entrance to Cloud City in Empire Strikes Back, I would recommend that you check out my latest Star Wars Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 release and my latest The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 release. The Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 release will be coming out in the next few days.

They get rid of all the bad Special Edition changes like Greedo shooting first, Jabba in Star Wars, Jedi Rocks, Hayden Christensen as a jedi ghost etc. while keeping all the good changes.

Both releases can be found on tehparadox and myspleen.

towne32 said:

kk650 said:

The Empire Strikes Back is now on myspleen.

Return of the Jedi should be coming in the next few days, then i'll create playable AVCHD versions of all three with chapters and selectible subtitles for those that want to write these onto a dvd-9 and watch these releases straight off their players with as little fuss as possible.

 

Sounds great. And then the 16 gb 'retro' versions?

I'll need time to create the cinema DTS audio tracks to include with those 16gb releases but yeah, that's the plan. Then i'll start releasing the more colourful classic versions.

The Empire Strikes Back is now on myspleen.

Return of the Jedi should be coming in the next few days, then i'll create playable AVCHD versions of all three with chapters and selectible subtitles for those that want to write these onto a dvd-9 and watch these releases straight off their players with as little fuss as possible.

Sorry about the delay guys, after muxing The Empire Strikes Back encode to the PCM audio that I created for my first The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised release I wasn't 100% happy with the audio syncing so I had to redo it from scratch. I also noticed a few lightsaber shots that I felt could be improved further so doing both those things is what delayed me releasing this.

The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 is now up on tehparadox. I'll also have it up on myspleen later on today.

@kane1138: My pleasure. :)

The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 is currently encoding, I should have it up on tehparadox by tomorrow. I'll put it up on myspleen as well soon after.

Okay, both the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 and Star Wars Semi-Specialised Cinema Edition V2.1 are now up on myspleen.

@kitt1987: Thank you kitt1987, I appreciate that, good things come to those who wait. :)

Danfun128 said:

How is the Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialized going to be made? Do you have access to the same Negative 1 clips Harmy has for his despecialized?

I hope to have access to those clips at some point though I sent Negative 1 a PM like they asked 3 weeks ago and have yet to hear back from them. Hopefully they'll get back to me at some point. Maybe they're waiting for the despecialised Return of the Jedi to be released using their clips before they reply to my PM, so I could be waiting a while.

I have however got the uprezed PAL GOUT footage for Yub Nub, Lapti Nek and the Jedi Ghosts scene that I created for my first Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised release a year ago. I colour corrected all three scenes, changed the image dynamics to better fit seamlessly with the blu-ray footage and finally cleaned the GOUT footage of the three scenes frame by frame of spots, scratches and dirt, so it is more than satisfactory to use. Not as good as a high definition source or film print scans of course but it will certainly do until something HD in quality crops up.

So I currently have everything I need to create the Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Retro Edition, all I need to do now is adjust the settings and make sure the lightsaber colours are consistant.

The Star Wars Semi-Specialised Cinema Edition V2.1 is also now up on tehparadox and the settings for the The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 are finished. After all the lightsaber colour corrections I'm seeing twirling lightsabers in my sleep haha need to take a break for a day or two, then i'll move onto Return of the Jedi.

@nafroe: Thanks! If you like how this looks, I think you'll like how ESB and ROTJ look as well. :)

@pittrek: haha if that was a hint I got it loud and clear. I was always planning to put these up on myspleen, I just wanted to finish off ESB first, which I have done today. I'll put both the Star Wars Retro and Cinema versions up there tomorrow. I'd forgotten how much of a pain it is correcting the lightsaber colours so they're consistent...

@kitt1987: Thanks, very kind of you to say that. Its the best i've been able to get Star Wars looking after months of tweaking the colours and image dynamics. I think i've achieved a natural and appealing balance of colours and fleshtones.

I was able to get the unprocessed cinema DTS audio for the three films off myspleen. There's a bit of work that has to be done to them synced correctly first to the '97 releases but I should have all I need to start creating the audio tracks for these releases. That will have to wait though, I want to get Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 done first, both with the Yub Nub ending and the Victory Celebration ending.

The Star Wars Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 is now up on tehparadox.

Here are some comparisons between the blu-ray and this release:

Blu-ray 1:



Regraded 1:



Blu-ray 2:

Regraded 2:



Blu-ray 3:



Regraded 3:



Blu-ray 4:



Regraded 4:



Blu-ray 5:



Regraded 5:

Been very busy with work related stuff this week so I wasn't able to get any of them up during the week but I finally have some free time to myself this weekend. The Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition is indeed coming out tomorrow, thank you Doombot, Hal 9000 and kane1138 for letting me know that you prefer the brighter settings, thats what i've gone with.

I was in two minds about the black levels so I have actually created two encodes for Star Wars that I plan to release, one using the exact same settings as the latest clips I posted and an encode with slightly reduced brightness.

I believe the first settings are more accurate in terms of brightness to how Star Wars looked in the cinema when it came out but the blacks in certain scenes are a bit too bright for modern sensibilities watching on a TV screen IMHO, it makes for unconfortable viewing until your eyes adjust. I'll probably call this one the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Cinema Edition and will be a one off for Star Wars only.

The second settings conforms more to modern expectations of black levels and in that sense has much better continuety with the black levels of the second and third film's Semi-Specialised Editions. This is the version I expect most people will prefer and it'll be the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Retro Edition that will be followed by the ESB and ROTJ Retro releases.

I'm also almost finished with the settings of The Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition, so that should be coming out in the next few days as well.

Matt_Stevens said:

I watched the Cinemax broadcast a couple months ago and it looked terrific. A bit of green tint, yes, as expected. Cameron can't help himself, it seems. 

We can expect a Blu-Ray soon and when that happens, lots of people will regrade it.

I have the opportunity and the ability to regrade The Abyss to remove the blanket green/teal tint so I have. We have no way of knowing when a blu-ray release will be released so I see no point in waiting, no time like the present and all that.

For those interested, a 16gb regraded release of The Abyss at 23.976fps is now up on tehparadox.

PDB said:

kk650 said:

Fleshtones are all very nice and orange in those 35mm shots of Aliens, I think you want to try to make sure you're getting those just right, I can see a little green in those fleshtones as well so you've got leeway to lean in that direction if you want, i'd personally avoid leaning towards the reds though in terms of fleshtones, the characters looking permanently sunburnt is not a good look IMHO. 

Lights look nice and yellow as well, could probably use a little more red though to warm them up a bit more, at least for my taste.

I really like how the colours of those 35mm prints look! If you get the fleshtones and lightsources looking like those in the Aliens 35mm prints, you'll definately be onto something great here IMHO.

I would love to time my regrade of Aliens off those 35mm frames. I too like the coloring which has warmer skin tones and more saturated colors then the DVD, less extreme then the LD. There are two problems. One I'm pretty sure that they are from a trailer so they may not be the final color timing of an Aliens print. Second there are too few to figure out the correct timing for every scene. Some of those 35mm frames match the DVD best, some the LD and some the BD (the scenes without horrible green). Looks like I should correct to the LD and pull the saturation down and lighten the skin tones or grade to the DVD and increase the saturation, make the skin tones warmer and increase the contrast. Oh well need to finish Alien first before any of that.

Hmm that is tricky. If I was you I would use the 35mm frames you have as a rough guide for what the fleshtones and lightsources should look like throughout the film. Use the LD and DVD colours as a guide as well of course but try to maintain a consistant look colourwise to each scene and that makes sense in relation to the lightsources and their colour. I always personally put the most importance on maintaining consistancy in fleshtone colour throughout the film, taking into account the lightsources of the scene in question and how the light would affect those fleshtone colour. Nothing takes me out of a film quicker than constantly changing fleshtone colours that don't make sense taking into account the lightsources present in the scene.

When in doubt, go with your gut and most important of all with grading, at least that i've found from my experience, of course take into account all the different opinions about how you should go about regrading this but ultimately when in doubt, go with what YOU like. Remember that when it comes down to it you are grading for yourself, creating a regrade that is appealing to you. Remembering that will keep you sane when all the different opinions leave you confused and conflicted, its impossible to make everybody happy. Keeping that in mind has certainly helped keep me sane in the past haha

PDB said:

EDIT: Nah, that's not fair for me to say, i'm sure there are many here on this site, the silent majority that rarely post and even some regular posters here I imagine, that enjoy my releases a great deal and post their thanks on tehparadox where they feel more at liberty to do so and it is very much appreciated. I'm very glad that you also like what i've done with my previous releases. Hopefully I can inspire others to start doing their own regraded releases like you are doing with Alien and Aliens.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you do with these two films, those 35mm frames look very nice. Like Andrea, I'm very happy to see others joining the fray, trying their hand at grading and putting out their own releases, very happy indeed.

Yeah you are being too hard on yourself, trust me there are a lot of people here who like your work kk650.

This is my first project ever, hopefully my work can live up to the high standards that have been set here. I'm getting close. 

Yeah, I imagine you're right. After all, I really shouldn't be surprised that my Star Wars Semi-Specialised releases that include Special Edition changes are not going to be all that popular on a site that is dedicated to the preservation of the unaltered original Star Wars trilogy. Doesn't mean that my other releases aren't liked by many here though.

Based off the screencaps you've posted I think you're off to a great start. I think grading is one of those things that you develop an eye for the more you do it so stay at it, what you're doing here looks very promising indeed. :)

stretch009 said:

kk650 said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

kk650 said:

I've been on myspleen and I can only see the Star Wars 97'SE theatrical track, which i've already very kindly been provided with by CapableMetal. Still waiting on the other two though. :(

Actually, there are all three episodes there, compressed in .7z

I'm sorry to not be able to help with the latest request, as my actual display is an ancient LCD very small monitor, which could not be finely tuned... oh, I miss you very much, my huge 55' HDTV! (^^,)

Are there? What should I be searching for on myspleen then so they show up?

 

SW Special Edition 97 Theatrical DTS - Unprocessed WAVs with LFE

Posted by CapableMetal has all three episodes.

Click on "Num Files" and you will see.

Thanks for that stretch009! :)

Has anybody checked the clips and have any thoughts about which brightness setting is more correct for Star Wars?

If nobody posts their thoughts i'll just have to assume that everybody is in two minds like me and i'll go with what my gut is telling me to go with, the brighter settings.

When the 16gb The Abyss regrade finishes encoding tonight, i'll adjust the settings of the whole of Star Wars to match the brightness of those brighter clips and then set it off. The Star Wars Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 should be out by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

After Star Wars, I move straight onto Empire Strikes Back Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 which should be much much easier, that should be out in a couple of days, then onto Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Retro Edition V2.1 that should be quick to release as well, though i'll have to release two versions, one with the Yub Nub ending and one with Victory Celebration, as I did with my first Semi-Specialised releases.

poita said:

Nope, the prints don't have really lush colour, (but the GOUT colour pallete is way off in places) it is the camera taking the photos that is punching up the vibrancy at the Senator screening etc. I have a technicolour print in front of me right now, and the colour is nowhere near as vibrant. I have seen another Tech print, and prints taken from the french negative, and in all cases, the images aren't washed out, but aren't 'punchy' either.

Also, if you read interviews with the DOPs and others that worked on the film, they were going for a softer, more gauzy look, which fits in with how the prints look.

below is an example, Aussie Tech-IB on the top, grab from your front page on the bottom.

As I said, I like the look you are creating, but it is much more in line with a late 90s to early 2000s look, rather than how the originals looked in the 1970s.

Film just doesn't do those deep deep blacks, (negatives do of course, but the prints we saw in the cinema didn't).

The push towards deep (crushed sometimes) blacks and pushed whites is a more contemporary taste, it wasn't popular in 70s cinema.

 Here's what poita said earlier in the thread about the blacks for those that are interested and don't want to go looking for the post.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

kk650 said:

I've been on myspleen and I can only see the Star Wars 97'SE theatrical track, which i've already very kindly been provided with by CapableMetal. Still waiting on the other two though. :(

Actually, there are all three episodes there, compressed in .7z

I'm sorry to not be able to help with the latest request, as my actual display is an ancient LCD very small monitor, which could not be finely tuned... oh, I miss you very much, my huge 55' HDTV! (^^,)

Are there? What should I be searching for on myspleen then so they show up?

No worries, the more I look at the frames from the theatrical print that i've been provided with, the more the choice seems obvious. I'm surprised that I didn't come to this realisation before. Looking back in the thread, poita did actually mention that the blacks were meant to be brighter than we have become accustomed to with modern films but I was so focused on the colours of Star Wars rather than the image dynamics that I didn't give it much thought. The comparison shot he posted between my settings and a frame from the print showing Leia and Tarkin clearly shows the brighter blacks in the frame taken from the print.

I hope that you get that replacement hdtv soon Andrea, we need you out there producing more quality releases, you're not much good to use with a small ancient lcd!

PDB said:

kk650 said:

I must say that I find the colour grading of the laserdisc and those 35mm shots pretty unusual to say the least, especially the fleshtones, looks like a completely different film to the Alien i've seen.

Definately Very interested in checking this out when you release this though PDB, it'll be like watching Alien again for the very first time. :)

 Thanks kk650. Hopefully the project will be worth it when I'm done. I think we have ample evidence that Alien had warmer fleshtones in theaters then its current color grading. Just need to figure out the rest of the colors.

Love your work btw.

EDIT: Nah, that's not fair for me to say, i'm sure there are many here on this site, the silent majority that rarely post and even some regular posters here I imagine, that enjoy my releases a great deal and post their thanks on tehparadox where they feel more at liberty to do so and it is very much appreciated. I'm very glad that you also like what i've done with my previous releases. Hopefully I can inspire others to start doing their own regraded releases like you are doing with Alien and Aliens.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you do with these two films, those 35mm frames look very nice. Like Andrea, I'm very happy to see others joining the fray, trying their hand at grading and putting out their own releases, very happy indeed.