jimbotron235

I’m liking this! If there’s one thing I’m missing from the recent slew of official remasters, it’s the warmer hues that have been buried in favor of blue and green. It’s one of the reasons I love the new 4K of Amadeus, which has its critics for being “too yellow”, not me!

I did an audio sync of Laserdisc Dolby Surround in PCM, all ready to go, synced to the 4K. Let me know if you’d like that. There’s also the Cinema DTS that easily syncs to it that I also have.

I’m not at all a fan of the DTS:X remix on the 4K, with the added effects. For that matter, I’ve yet to find any Atmos/DTS:X remix of a catalog title an improvement over prior mixes.

I imported the Italian 4K release. It’s on the razor’s edge of barely being an acceptable upgrade over the Blu-ray. The encode preserved as much of the surviving grain and texture as possible, as the US version was completely unacceptable. The Blu-ray has visible artificial sharpening which I’m more sensitive to, which the 4K seems to lack. The upgrade to color is notable though with brighter, warmer colors and less of a blue shift. The Italian 4K feels like 4 steps forward and 3 steps back.

Done and done. Syncs of the original Laserdisc and DVD tracks are now available, including the Laserdisc documentary The Last Laugh. PM me for links.

Thanks for the link, I’ll check that program out.

Bummer on the arias. Restoring the original German would have really easy in those cases.

I’ve never thought about giving the dubs a try. If there’s one thing about the movie I don’t like - it’s the translation of the opera songs into English, such as the Queen of the Night aria, Papageno, etc. The movie does this inconsistently, sometimes they’re original like Marriage of Figaro, and others they’re in English. I assume the dubs also translate the songs, or in the case of The Magic Flute, restore them back to German?

FrankB said:

I remember the scene with burning wood in a fireplace with a lot of talking of Salierei in the background as one of the hardest, although you even don’t see the actor speaking - I don’t know if the English version was similar hard to adapt here? Also one scene when Mozart comes home and meets his father in the staircase I remember as hard to adapt. Some in the director’s cut missing or shortened scenes (3? I don’t remember, maybe I took also the staircase scene?)

Oh yes, those segments were difficult to correct, because of the missing frames or missing shots. In the case of Salieri lifting off the cross and putting it into the fire, it’s actually an alternate take with slightly different timing. The worst part of the Director’s Cut was all the 1-2 frame chops off so many shots. That made the audio syncing a massive job to pull off.

Ultimately, opinions on that are all subjective. I think the new version looks gorgeous, and you are entitled to your opinion on the previous version. If we’re both happy, then great.

FrankB said:

Nice to read this here. I never was much interested in this, because I made my own Theatrical cut myself long ago, I think at quite the same time when this started here.

I’d like to know more. How did you go about work on that?

FrankB said:
Ok, so now I got this 4k release, BUT:
The colors are as bad as the most HDR releases of the last years: Brownish, (incorrigible) much too much yellow and a bit too much green, much too less blue. Even when you put in all skills in tone mapping, and even when you watch the 4k itself - The BluRay releases are far better!
There even are scenes that are much too bright, and much too less contrast.

The bit of grain the 4k release has got more than the HD releases is of no use… The HD releases (at least the ones I know) are sharp on the point!
An A. I. 4k-upscale of the HD-source would be of even less use… But this people do not want to understand, so of littlest use is to even discuss this point.

I have to disagree with you on that one. The 2000 master has a dull, digital-looking white balance. What you call as “too yellow” on the remaster, I counter with “too pink/magenta” on the Blu-ray.

I will call a spade a spade if it’s called for. I’m highly critical of ugly remasters when they happen. Batman 1989 for example looks atrocious. James Cameron and David Fincher should be banned from ever working on their catalog again, IMO. But in the case of Amadeus, supervised by Paul Zaentz who really cared to make this version exist again, I think they nailed it.

Any appearance of superior sharpness of the 2000 master is a result of artificial sharpening. Just look at the slight halo around the mother-in-law’s headdress compared to the remaster. Also note the blown out contrast on the highlights:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=424&y=208&d1=4791&d2=19001&s1=44634&s2=225179&l=0&i=2&go=1

FrankB said:
What I want to say: I highly recommend to keep this nice project up! Because the picture is far better than this 4k master, and also the efforts about the sound tracks are a wonderful contribution!
What people say, who know absolutely nothing, is not very important… 😉

While I appreciate the kind words, I cannot in good conscience keep it available. The goal was to reproduce something that didn’t exist, and now it does.

The audio work is not lost. I am nearly done re-syncing all of the same audio tracks from my V3 release for the new 4K, so the project will still live on in some way.

oojason said:
You delivered a pretty awesome project yourself, jimbotron235 - and brought a lot of happiness and enjoyment to fans who wished to experience a quality Theatrical Cut preservation of Amadeus.

All credit and kudos to you - and many thanks for all your hard work on this. 👍
 

Much appreciated.

When it comes to this movie, nothing makes me happier than being able to bury my edit! The Saul Zaentz Company delivered beyond my expectations with the restoration.

splodge said:

Images here from my SDR conversion

https://imgur.com/a/H0sXDpv

Looks pretty good! Funny there’s no standard Blu-ray for this yet, I assume that will come in the future.

splodge said:

jimbotron235, I’ll be eternally grateful for your work on this edit. Now that the 4k HDR version is available I need to convert it to 1080p SDR for my projector as I don’t believe there is a SDR version available for this release - it certainly doesn’t come on Blu-ray.

I’ve been trying ffmpeg to do automatic HDR to SDR conversion with the following, seems to work well:

ffmpeg -init_hw_device vulkan -i INPUT -map 0✌️0 -map_metadata -1 -vf libplacebo=upscaler=spline36:downscaler=spline36:w=1920:h=-1:peak_detect=true:tonemapping=spline:gamut_mode=perceptual:colorspace=bt709:color_trc=bt709:color_primaries=bt709:range=limited:dithering=blue:format=yuv420p -c:v libx264 -preset slow -crf 18 OUTPUT.mkv

Any tips to improve this?

Any sample screenshots? I have not had good results from using ffmpeg or Handbrake for HDR-SDR conversion, but I did think RipBot264 did a good job. The issue I saw was color banding on reds, which only RipBot was able to handle properly.

The documentary is fascinating in that while they’re discussing the Constanze scene, it shows a rough cut of said scene, which is noticeably different from the final version in the Director’s Cut. In the rough cut, the nudity is mostly absent, with more closeups of a shocked Salieri and servant, and Constanze now curses Salieri out before chucking the candleholder. I don’t know if the change in shots was for censorship reasons since it’s technically a physical release of a PG movie, or if they didn’t really intend to show her topless in the original cut.

Check your PMs!

If anyone wants a copy of the old Laserdisc documentary and original commentary track, send me a PM.

The thread on Blu-ray.com is indicating the audio mix on the new 4K is the original mix unwound into 5.0 in a 5.1 container, no dedicated LFE channel and (mostly) mono surrounds. That’s great news, but I’ll still create syncs of the various LD and DVD mixes for completionist’s sake.

I also acquired copies of the old Laserdisc bonus features. It’s amusing hearing Forman and Shaffer explain why it was a good idea to remove the scenes that eventually became part of the “Director’s Cut”. Shaffer says that if Salieri was as virtuous as he claimed to be, then he would have not have done those humiliating things to innocent Constanze. Yeah, exactly.

But of course, fast forward to 2000, it was the DVD director’s cut craze, and both of them conveniently changed their tune and WB edited out critical mentions of the extended cut scenes.

Props to Paul Saentz, nephew of Saul, for spearheading the restoration effort of the original theatrical cut. Without him, I doubt this occurs.

Mike O said:

Is the new Once Upon A Time in the West 4K STILL a downmix instead of the real mono?

I can’t confirm the status of the lossy mono mix on the US release, as I held out and bought the Italian 4K due to its better encode. It did not include English mono, so I created a sync of the 1994 Laserdisc mix (dual mono, 44.1kHz) for it. The Italian mono from the 4K included the correct end credit music, so it was spliced in.

I have two versions of the sync available, no adjustments needed:

• 2011 US Blu-ray “Restored Version”
• 2024 Italian 4K - should also work with US 4K

PM me for link.

Mike O said:

I wonder if we’ll ever get the extended cut on 4K? I know it has its detractors and that grotto scene shouldn’t be there, but I kind of love it anyway and wish that it was there for those of us who want it.

You ask and you shall receive. I pre-ordered the trilogy from Arrow UK. New 4K versions of all three movies, with three versions of GBU. Hopefully they blow away the Kino transfers. The included BD bonus features will be region locked, but the 4K discs are region free.

Excellent work! It lives up to its name, this is about as ‘definitive’ as it gets - solid color, healthy bitrate and practically every audio option. Thanks!

Nice job with the custom 2.1 mix. The LFE seems to be synced correctly with the action. The previous 2.1 edit was slightly off since the mono sound and the remix had different timing.

COMING SOON! Audio syncs for upcoming 4K UHD release

• Dolby Surround 2.0 from JP LD (Not sure which copy)
• Dolby Surround 2.0 from 1996 US LD [PSE96-073]
• Dolby Digital 5.1 from 1997 US DVD
• Dolby Digital 2.0 Isolated Score Track from 1997 US DVD
• Audio Commentary from 1996 US LD [PSE96-073]

Two channel audio will be completed in WAV and the 5.1 audio will be completed in FLAC for no quality loss.

If anyone has a copy of the Laserdisc AC3 5.1 track, I’d love to include it also. Is it a different mix from the DVD version? The bitrate on the DVD is 384kbps rather than 448kbps, which may indicate it’s a straight port from the Laserdisc.

I’m interested in how the 4K audio track sounds. It’s an unusual 5.0 track so no dedicated LFE channel, so perhaps it’s the theatrical stereo that has been matrixed to 5 channels.

NewtononionBridgley said:

You’re not welcome and stop wasting your time with this project.
If this 4K physical release doesn’t include the original cinematic audio, all you have to do is downscale from 4K to 1080p without use of shitty AI upscaling, an encode or remux, and add the audio track as PCM or FLAC from the Laserdisc. That would be your V4!
I’d rather have a 4K remux from the physical disc with the Laserdisc audio as LPCM as an included track anyway, not some 1080p only bollocks.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about with downscales and AI or why you’ve come in here with such vitriol. Wasting my time? What time? The project is long since finished, years ago. Did you not notice this goes back to 2014? Your assumption there will be a V4 is based on … I don’t know, whatever is going on in your mind. I have already said this will be obsoleted and retired with the release of the 4K theatrical cut. There’s no need for you to white knight for the studio.

I don’t know why you’re so hung up about associating AI upscaling here. I never touched it, and seeing as this is an 10+ year old project, it pre-dates that usage in the industry. One thing I will agree with you on is that AI upscaling is the devil. But maybe you should direct your venom about that in a more appropriate forum.

But to your last point, I will be syncing the laserdisc audio tracks to the new 4K version, and will make those tracks available here. Even for you!

Everyone, make sure you love those around you as much as this guy hates my decade-old theatrical cut project!

NewtononionBridgley said:

About fucking time this project can be over!

All needs to happen if this isn’t on Blu-ray disc, just downscale to 1080p, no need for shitty AI upscaling or whatever this project tried.

‘About fucking time this project is over … whatever this project is!’

Thanks?

What are you using for playback? I tested it at 4x on VLC and it runs smoothly.

I caught the “theatrical cut” live tonight at the San Francisco Symphony.

Overall had a great time, the music was superb.

I was curious if I would see the newly minted 4K master of the film, but no, it was a custom edit of the Director’s Cut Blu-ray master approximating the theatrical cut. Unlike my version which spliced in missing or trimmed down shots, this one didn’t bother, it just cut to the next shot, causing some jarring moments. Like when Stanzi asks “so you’ll help us?”. In this, it cuts straight to Salieri walking away, no reaction shots. None of it affected the music though.

Reminder - if you want the link, please send me a PM directly.

Those screencaps absolutely nail it. Wonderful job

Since you’re starting with the remastered Blu-rays, did you reverse the blurry B&W appearance of the flashback shots?