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gltaylor74

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11-Nov-2005
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7-Feb-2021
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70

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Post
#287184
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/287184/action/topic#287184
Time
Correct, no ld player did upscaling or progressive scan. They all put out a 480i image. Players like the X0 and X9 were just optimized for LD playback. MUSE lasers were true high def. I think 1125 lines or so is correct. I've heard that the quality varied by title. Some titles supposedly look awesome, such as the scenary type discs. Others were not that great. Plus you still had to have an outboard MUSE decoder to "decrypt" the MUSE signal. My X9 will play MUSE discs, but the selection of titles I would have purchased was very small and not worth the costs. MUSE discs are still quite expensive.
Post
#280314
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280314/action/topic#280314
Time

"So theoretically, the Star wars episode I dvd at 448 should be better than the lasers 384, but it's not the case."

Because, again, the difference between the SW LD and DVD isn't just the bitrate. The LD is a different mix as well.

And your SPD LD comparison makes perfect sense.

[EDIT]

This gentleman states that the Episode I dvd and LD same mix is essentially the same.

http://www.videophile.info/Graphs/TPM/TPM_01.htm

"Apart from the difference in overall volume, the mix on both is basically the same. While a lower recording level could also be called a different 'mix' already, it usually isn't. A different mix suggests that either the frequency response of the track is altered (roll-off of the ultra low sub 30hz bass for example, see JP DVDs), or the impact and design of single effects is changed (see beginning of T2 UE). Neither of which happened on TPM.

The only 're-mix' that happened here, is that the level difference between the 2 versions is not constant (lets say 8db), but differs from one part of the movie to the other. The 'Podrace' for example is recorded 7db lower than on the LD, while the 'Invasion' and the 'Bigger Fish' scene in the beginning are recorded 9db lower. So Lucasfilm chose a different balance between the scenes. Whether the new balance on the DVD or the old on the LD is closer to the theatrical presentation is anyone's guess. But considering that the mix on the DVD was prepared by the same people that created this fabulous soundtrack in the first place, implies that the balance on the DVD is either correct or at least prefered by those involved. "

And can you elaborate on your statement that the SPD LD comparison makes perfect sense? Not sure what doesn't make sense. The Dolby digital DVD was recorded at a bitrate of 448kbps, the DTS DVD at 754kbps, and the Dolby digital LD at 384kbps. My point was to say that bitrate isn't the end all factor as is a common conception. the LD is the reference soundtrack for this film, and it's the one at the lowest bitrate.

Post
#280030
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280030/action/topic#280030
Time
I think most actual DD 5.1 mixes on DVD are at 448kbps. Many are also at 384. Warner used 384 for most all titles up until a year or two ago. Usually it's the dolby 2.0 mixes that are 192kbps.

Dolby digital on LD was 384. So theoretically, the Star wars episode I dvd at 448 should be better than the lasers 384, but it's not the case.

Another one is Saving private Ryan. I had the DD DVD at one point, which was 448. Then I got the DTS DVD, which was 754, and it was loads better than the DD DVD. Then I got the DD laserdisc at 384 and it beats the pants off of them all. It is to this day the most intense soundtrack I've heard.

DTS on laserdisc was 1235kbps. DTS DVD started out at 1536kbps but was then cut in half to 754 to save space.
Post
#279899
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/279899/action/topic#279899
Time
It depends on the title. For Episode I LD vs DVD audio, no contest the LD wins. It is an incredible soundtrack on LD, just like I heard in the theater. For Titanic DTS LD vs the new DVD's DTS, I find them to be very equal, with the DVD maybe having a slight edge in my opinion. In the case of Apollo 13, I have the DTS LD and the new HD-DVD with Dolby Digital Plus. While the HD-DVD is far superior in video, the DTS audio on the laser just kills the HD-DVD. THe Dolby digital plus is weak and puny compared to the DTS laser.

I do think that laserdisc was most often just pretty much the theatrical soundtrack put right on disc, whereas DVD's are now often "modified" for home theater environments. Like a previous poster also said, DD on DVD must be able to play on anything, whereas LD DD was 5.1 only with no downmixing. Whether or not if affects quality is another matter.
Post
#278784
Topic
Capturing LD audio
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/278784/action/topic#278784
Time
Thanks to all. I searched demonoid for the ready made pcm tracks, but could not find them. I think they went up and were taken off again really quickly. Or at least I couldn't find them. I would prefer to just try the ready made tracks, but will capture my own if I can't find them. I like the gout dvd's video better than the lasers, but the audio is so much weaker it drives me nuts. Thanks for all comments.

Greg
Post
#278435
Topic
Capturing LD audio
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/278435/action/topic#278435
Time
Hello all,

I have the GOUT Star Wars DVD's and have made anamaphoric versions of them using the DVD-Rebuilder software. However, I also have the Definitive Collection laserdiscs, and the compressed sound on the DVD's is driving me nuts. I would like to capture the PCM tracks from the laserdiscs and replace the compressed dolby 2.0 tracks on the dvd's.

I have a sound card with a digital input, so I can connect my laserdisc players digital out directly to it. I was wondering if someone had some info on what software to use to catpure the audio, how to sync it up with the GOUT dvd's, and so on. I appreciate any feedback anyone can provide. Thanks!

Greg
Post
#264463
Topic
Info Wanted: has anyone captured the Definitive Collection LD's PCM soundtrack?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264463/action/topic#264463
Time

Does anyone know if the PCM soundtracks from the definitive collection have been captured from the lasers and posted for download anywhere? I found a download for the mono mix of a new hope, but I would like to find the PCM tracks from the definitive collection laserdiscs if they are available.

I have the definitive collection lasers, and the GOUT DVD’s. I really love the GOUTs improved video, but I sorely miss the lasers PCM track. I used the DVD Rebuilder program to convert the GOUT dvd’s to anamaphoric and am happy enough with the video (until the X0 teams are available) but I would like to try to replace the dolby 2.0 soundtracks on the dvd with the lasers PCM tracks. Any info or help is greatly appreciated. Thank!

Greg

Post
#249390
Topic
your buying the PT all over again in Blue ray !!!!!!!!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249390/action/topic#249390
Time
Originally posted by: Zion
Laserdisc never appealed to the general public because it stayed expensive and it wasn't a convenient way to watch movies with the bulky discs and so many side changes. Next-gen DVD formats appeal to anyone who owns an HDTV and wants something that matches the quality of their TV programming. Prices for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD players and media are bound to drop gradually over the course of the next few years, just like any new technology has in the last ten years. Eventually, players will get to the point where they're inexpensive enough for people to replace their existing DVD player, especially since they're backward compatible and you won't have to upgrade your entire library of DVDs. Until then, videophiles will determine the outcome of the next-gen media war.


Laserdisc was a hugely popular format in other countrys. Just because it wasn't big in the US doesn't mean it wasn't in other areas. Even so, it survived in the US for nearly twenty years for being a niche format. I don't think you'll see star wars on blu ray for some time because frankly, the user base for blu ray is extremely small and they would not make any money with a blu ray release next year.

Post
#248795
Topic
Info Wanted: Anyone Planning on making Anamorphic versions using 2006 OUT DVDs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/248795/action/topic#248795
Time
Originally posted by: Shelton
This is my first post here after reading this forum for the last few weeks. You guys seem to really know a lot about DVD authoring. I'm hoping someone can help clarify something for me.

I have a widescreen LCD tv and the Oppo 970 upconverting dvd player. I want to make anamorphic versions of the unaltered trilogy from my letterbox discs in order to take advantage of the upconverting feature of my dvd player. I thought I would be fine with zoom function on my tv, but that seems to cut off some of the subtitles. My dvd player has a zoom feature that doesn't cut off the subtitles, but there is no zoom scale that fits the tv perfectly. So my questions are these:

Will converting these discs to anamorphic make it look better than the tv's zoom function?

Will converting to anamorphic make it look better than the DVD player zoom function?

Is there a way to use DVD rebuilder to convert to anamorphic while not decreasing the output to DVD-5? I know you have to re-encode to do the letterbox to anamorphic conversion, but I can't find an option that allows me to have a target size for DVD-9.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.


I believe you have to purchase the PRO version to use DVD-9. The free version does not offer that feature.

Post
#245863
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245863/action/topic#245863
Time
Originally posted by: bactaOT
Originally posted by: bbbb
I like the new DVD release of the OOT.

Thank you George Lucas!



Are you happy that there is 'motion ghosting' in this release?

That may have been ok as a cheap effect in a '70's rock music video,
but doesn't belong in a 2006 DVD movie release IMO.



It doesn't me. About two minutes in I forget about watching for flaws and watch the films.
Post
#241674
Topic
So, this is how the DVDs are going to look...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241674/action/topic#241674
Time
Originally posted by: ESHBG
My response in another thread, but since I brought it up here too I will share my results:

--Okay, I found a non-anamorphic, letterbox DVD (and it was a 2001 Fox release too, imagine that *yawn*). The movie was shot in 2.35:1 so it was a great comparison. In my component mode, it keeps it letterboxed and it does NOT scale it any bigger to fill more of the screen. But since I have a DVD/VCR combo I could actually switch to the AV mode and still play/watch the DVD, and in that mode I can select the "Zoom" options to fill more of the screen. Quite honestly, I didn't really notice much difference in picture quality and I was satisfied with viewing the movie in that mode.

So yeah, I am still on the fence about getting the 09/12 DVDs but feeling *slightly* better about it all. I still don't know what is going through Lucas'/LFL's head, though. Maybe they figure with the technology out there today they can take the easy route, as most (all?) widescreen TVs, DVD players, etc., have a zoom feature. No excuse, though, no excuse...--


You may want to check out an older player, the Panasonic RP91. The RP91 can take letterbox material and "scale" it to 16x9 format. This allows you to keep your display in it's widescreen, or Full, mode. The Full mode is used with anamphoric material. The panny of course doesn't make the letterbox true anamphoric, but it does a good job and the big thing is keeping the display in Full mode where you don't get geometry distortion. They can probably get got pretty cheap now days. It is component only at 480p, no upscalling or anything.

Post
#228344
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228344/action/topic#228344
Time
Does it make sense that they may have taken the laserdisc masters and cleaned them up some? Obviously I would think they would have had to have done something to them to remove the "episode 4 a new hope" from the first film? Perhaps they did do some cleanup and they won't be as bad as what the internet makes them to be. Especially since none of us have actually seen the dvd's.

Post
#228294
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228294/action/topic#228294
Time
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=9424

"Sansweet kicked off this year’s Star Wars demo addressing Internet chatter bemoaning the fact that the original theatrical versions Lucasfilm is finally putting on DVD are from the laserdisc transfer and are not in anamorphic widescreen or completely digitally restored.

Sansweet had some fun with the audience, showing a scene from the movie in a tiny square in middle of the hall’s gigantic five video screens, then showing the same scene tweaked to have about the quality of a NASA Earth-to-Moon video transmission.

“I’m done messing with you,” Sansweet said, and cued the “real” clip of the oft-discussed “Han shoots first” scene from A New Hope, which was greeted with massive cheers from the audience.

“The transfers are absolutely incredible,” Sansweet said, “I have never seen a movie look this good at this level, despite what you may have heard in Internet rumors.”

The original laserdisc transfers went through a frame-by-frame digital color correction, he said".
Post
#202577
Topic
Info Wanted: watching the Laserdiscs directly - how good do they look on a large tv?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202577/action/topic#202577
Time
Originally posted by: fffffff
I was wondering how good does the star wars laserdisc look on large widescreen tvs? I have a Pioneer CLD D504. Is that a good player or could I do much better?

Troy


The 504 is a decent player, but not great. You can do much much better. The star wars discs generally don't look too good on a widescreen TV. I find that the definitive collection set has about the best picture quality I've seen of the various releases. Besides your LD player, you also have to take into consideration the quality of the deinterlacer in the set and the quality of the aspect ratio modes to watch the films in their proper aspect ratio. A good quality ld player, a display with a quality deinterlacer, aspect ratio modes, and comb filter can make most LD look pretty good on widescreen sets. The star wars discs don't look great because the quality of the transfers themselves are not good.



Post
#201964
Topic
Laserdisc players...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201964/action/topic#201964
Time
Originally posted by: dark_jedi
if you are looking for a LD player,why not get one of the Pioneer "ELITE" series players,like the CLD-79,CLD-95,or the CLD-99,hell even the CLD-52 isnt that bad and it will be cheaper than the other 3.
I have the CLD-79 and love it
DJ


I've got a CLD52 and the picture is not that good. I also have a Cld79, which is much better. I would recommend, if you are just wanting a good player for casual viewing, try the CLD 703 or cld704. They were pioneers best non-elite player and have the same video performance as the elite cld79.

Post
#190486
Topic
Info Wanted: Superbit?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/190486/action/topic#190486
Time
Originally posted by: Number20
I won't link to it, but I've seen there is also a "superbit" version of Star Wars Episode 3 on Ebay as well.

But as it is said earlier, the box is still impressive.

I have the Superbit versions of Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 and the DTS sounds better than the Dolby Digital 5.1 on the regular releases. I've seen the Jurrassic Park Superbit series on E-bay before, and wish they would come out with more R1 Superbits. They only seem to go to Japan. But do they really have that many more besides Jurrassic Park and a few others?


R2 got quite a few that R1 did not have. The reason is that in R2 Sony has the rights to films that they do not have in the states. R2 also had Gladiator superbit, the Mummy Returns, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Bridge on the River Kwai, and Taxi Driver, plus the Ghostbusters and Jurassic park movies as already noted. These are the ones I myself have and there are more that were R2 superbits not available in the US. For a list you can go to the CD japan website and search for superbit and it will show you the still available R2 superbits.

Just to note, the Jurassic Park superbit sets on ebay are bootlegs. AS noted earlier, you will pay dearly for the geniune Jurassic park alone, let alone all three films.

Post
#190484
Topic
Info Wanted: Superbit?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/190484/action/topic#190484
Time
Originally posted by: zion
Compression and bit rate are the reasons why. DD tracks on DVD can be up to 448kbps, while DTS can be up to 1.5Mbps. The AC3 track on the LD is an even higher bit rate I believe. Also, I'd be willing to bet the DTS audio on the THX demo disc is just a recompressed version of the Dolby master.

However, if you compare a soundtrack mastered by DTS to a soundtrack mastered by Dolby, there can be distict differences. If anyone out there has both a copy of the DD version of Jurassic Park and the DTS version, compare the audio of the opening credits. I used to demo this for people when I worked at Circuit City. There's a part in the opening credits of the film where the bass kicks in with a solid "boom". In the DTS version, the bass is tight and solid. On the DD version, the bass is very weak and sounds muddy. The chirps of the birds and wind instruments are also much clearer on the DTS version. Is this the same case with your Superbit DVD gl?



Actually, Dolby digital, or AC-3 on laserdisc was at the rate of 384kbps. So in the case of laserdisc, even though the dolby has the lower bitrate, it still is better than both the DVD's dolby digital at 448kbps and the THX demo's 754kbps DTS track. In my opinion, bitrate doesn't tell the story. DD on laserdisc has the lowest bitrate of all at 384kbps and it is very often superior to DTS or DD tracks on DVD that are at higher bitrates. Another one is Saving Private Ryan. I had the DD DVD and the DTS DVD, and the DTS DVD was the clear winner. I then got the DD LD and it bested the DTS DVD. Video quality was of course another matter.

I always felt that ld basically used the theatrical mix whereas DVD's are often "remixed" for home theater. When comparing the Star Wars Episode I DD DVD (at 448kbps) to the DD on the LD (at 384kbps) it is no contest. The LD is far more agressive of a mix and faithfully represents the theatrical viewing experience that I had. The DVD sounds "dumbed down" so to speak.

I have not compared the DD to the DTS on the R2 Jurassic park superbit. I know that the DTS is only at a rate of 754kbps and does not use the full 1509kbps as some early DTS DVD's did. DTS laserdisc for reference used a bitrate of 1235kbps. I remeber that when the R1 Jurassic park came out, the DTS DVD was very very weak and was easily bested by the DD DVD. It was found that an encoding error occured on the DTS DVD and cut it's LFE channel by 4db. A repressed DTS DVD was made available that was said to be created from the DTS laserdisc master and it shows. I believe that the Jurassic park superbit DTS is this same mix as it sounds very similar to the DTS DVD.