deepanddark20

C'mon, that was really pretty unfriendly. This is a thread about reincorporating deleted scenes, is it not? Are my comments/requests somehow less welcome than other people's?

I've been very excited about this site since I joined, but now I'm thinking maybe I should just leave. If there's a shared sentiment that I'm not wanted here, then I don't want to be here, but I'm disappointed in this environment where one person can talk down to another and get laughter as a response. If darth_ender can be a dick like that without something being done about it, then this is a poorly managed forum. Now how about a response to my previous post that actually has some decency to it and at least some basic level of respect?

Sorry to jump in in the middle of this, but I'm curious is this thread only about A New Hope? Here's the reason I ask:

A while back (before HD Blu Ray versions were available) there were extended cuts of the prequel trilogy released by ADigitalMan which incorporated all available footage back into the films for the fullest possible runtimes (sort of along the lines of what Peter Jackson does in his extended Lord of the Rings).

Personally, I like having these extended cuts available as an option, but now that the Blu Ray's have been released, the picture resolution of the ADigitalMan extended cuts has become outdated. Could I convince anyone to do these extended cuts in High Def? (I understand that occasionally there could be an unavoidable quality drop when certain footage is incorporated, and I'm fine with that; my main concern is having all footage put back in there).

At the very least I think Revenge of the Sith benefits greatly from having the deleted footage put back in. But regardless of whether this improves the movies I think it's a fanedit that should exist.

Since noone has offered to help me with this, I've started downloading them the slow way. When I'm done I can upload them to MySpleen if there's demand for that but other people will have to keep them alive through seeding.

At the moment I have the Blu Ray version of Episode III Dawn of the Empire if anyone wants it (about 22.2GB). It's going to take me a while to download the other two.

I am considering uploading the Blu Ray versions of L8wrtr's prequel edits to MySpleen if there's demand for them. In order to stay alive other people would have to keep them seeded though.

At the moment I only have Episode III Dawn of the Empire if anyone wants it (it's about 22.2GB).

I have PM'd L8wrtr both on fanedit.org and on originaltrilogy.com and he either doesn't check his inbox or he's not interested in responding to me. Unfortunately rapidshare is the only option available on fanedit.info for his movies

Could someone possibly make the NTSC DVD-5 of "The Ridiculous Menace" available through a torrent? It takes WAY too long to download it through fanedit.info using JDownloader

I am trying to get my hands on L8wrtr's Prequel Trilogy because they seem to be highly rated on fanedit.org compared to other edits.

The problem I'm having with getting them from fanedit.info is that JDownloader takes WAY too long to download (I've been trying to get Dawn of the Empire for over a week now and it still isn't finished). It would be much faster and easier for me if I could find a torrent for them instead.

I'm only interested in the highest quality HD versions (which I think would be the BD versions unless I'm mistaken and it's the AVCHD). Is there anyone on here who could possibly help me with this?

I am trying to get my hands on L8wrtr's Prequel Trilogy because they seem to be highly rated on fanedit.org compared to other edits.

The problem I'm having with getting them from fanedit.info is that JDownloader takes WAY too long to download (I've been trying to get Dawn of the Empire for over a week now and it still isn't finished). It would be much faster and easier for me if I could find a torrent for them instead.

I'm only interested in the highest quality HD versions (which I think would be the BD versions unless I'm mistaken and it's the AVCHD). Any way you could help with this? Also, do you think that L8wrtr's edits are overrated and I'm wasting my time here, or do you think they are worth downloading and watching?

Is there anyone who has made (or plans to make) an HD version of the Prequel Trilogy with all available footage included? I don't believe ADigitalMan ever released his extended editions in HD, so I am very curious about this. Revenge of the Sith in particular benefits greatly from having the deleted footage put back into the movie.

It is the goal of this discussion thread to promote the reconstruction/preservation of Star Wars in high quality HD with the “Episode IV A New Hope” opening crawl but none of the subsequent changes made to the film from 1997 onward.

This thread will assume that the theatrical preservation projects by Harmy and Team Blu are already doing a more than satisfactory job of preserving Star Wars, so all that we need to work on is a “Episode IV A New Hope” opening crawl that is up to the same standards as the work they have done. Our finished product would then be attached to their already existing fan preservation, in place of the 1977 crawl. Because of this approach, this is not considered to be a completely new product, but rather an alternative branch of their existing fan preservation which gives due credit to the original preserver.

We cannot proceed to use either Team Blu’s or Harmy’s preservations without their expressed permission. I have yet to receive permission from Team Blu to make a modified version of their project, but Harmy has given his blessing as long as we acknowledge that it is a modified version of “Despecialized Edition” and leave no room for the misperception that it is an entirely fresh project. In fact, Harmy has given me reason to believe he may contribute to this spinoff project personally, which would make us very fortunate and him very generous.

Much thanks and appreciation is due to Harmy for granting this permission to use his work. If Team Blu also grants permission to allow this modification to be made to their project, we will also be extremely grateful for their generosity.

The only aspect of the original Star Wars film that this project is open to changing is the opening title crawl. In every other aspect of the film, this project proceeds with the same goals as Harmy and Team Blu’s theatrical preservations. The reason for this is because “Episode IV A New Hope” was added to the opening crawl only a few years after the film was released, many years before other Special Edition changes started to be made, which means that for almost two decades people like myself grew up with this version of the film which was essentially the original theatrical presentation with the modified opening crawl. Therefore, it is my assertion that the opening crawl can be altered while still maintaining a “purist” attitude towards the original version of the film. If you want to see other changes made to the original film (for example Luke reuniting with Biggs before the attack on the Death Star, or Han’s conversation with Jabba the Hutt), then please start another conversation thread.

Thanks for your generosity, and that crawl looks beautiful!. You're the best person to work on it, IMO. It's not even necessarily that I think the "New Hope" crawl is better, I just want it available as an alternative since I grew up with it. To be honest, the '77 crawl has been growing on me a lot the more I watch DeEd 2.5. I'll stop cluttering this thread with '81 crawl discussion. Thank you once again.

"Ask to see how they feel about it" is what I just did in that post. And of course there's no intention to take credit for the entire movie when all that's actually been changed is the crawl. It would essentially be a spinoff project which they would not need to be involved with, but credit for the movie portion would still be given where it's due.

I'm hoping that we can share and help each other out in this community, especially since these projects aren't done for profit. But I will abide by whatever Team Blu says

In the very near future, a new thread will be started in the forums to discuss a Star Wars preservation with "A New Hope" opening crawl.

I know Harmy has said he doesn't mind pieces of Despecialized Edition being used, but just to make sure I want to ask: is permission granted to basically take the entire Despecialized and just change the crawl at the beginning? It would be much easier to just make this a spinoff project instead of starting from the ground up.

A new thread will soon be started in the forum focused on creating a version of Star Wars exactly like yours and/or Harmy's, except with "A New Hope" crawl. Before starting the thread I just want to make sure I ask: does Team Blu grant permission for your preservation to be used in this project? It would be a lot easier if we could just attach the New Hope crawl to an existing preservation instead of starting from the ground up.

Zer0Squared, where does the newsletter get sent to? I should be subscribed already.

Regarding the stormtrooper, Catbus, I heartily agree with you. My words weren't directed at your viewpoint, but at the viewpoint that insists that it's a flaw with the movie. Things that are funny happen in real life all the time.

Our viewpoints are complimentary, not contradictory. You were talking about whether or not it's funny, and for that it doesn't really matter if it's realistic or not, like you said.

But I was talking about whether or not a faneditor with the goal of fixing "flaws" in Star Wars could leave the stormtrooper shot alone on the basis that it could actually happen, so for my point it does matter if it's realistic. That doesn't conflict with seeing it as funny.

What makes me put the shirt-color-change in a different category than the stormtrooper headbump is the potential for actually happening. But could they both get a laugh? Sure.

Like a couple people have already said, all the hundreds of times I've watched the crawl/flyover with "A New Hope" and episode number, I've never felt that the music didn't go just fine with what I was watching until I was told by people on here that there's a problem with it. It doesn't feel like there's something wrong if you don't know any better.

I don't want to contribute to focusing this thread on Star Wars "errors" when it's actually about the Despecialized Edition, but regarding the stormtrooper hitting his head:

Putting aside for a moment the likeliness that the actor playing the stormtrooper wasn't scripted to do that and that this was captured in the take that ended up being used...... why is it necessary to view this as something that's wrong with the movie, and why is it necessary to view its removal as a "fix"? Is there something about the inherent nature of stormtroopers that makes a particular stormtrooper bumping into something an impossible event? Couldn't a stormtrooper making a mistake on screen be viewed as something that adds realism to the world of the movie? Anyway, that's my perspective on it. I think some people prefer to view it as an error instead of the approach I'm taking because pointing out things that are "wrong" with a movie makes a person feel clever.

A lot of details end up in movies that weren't planned but are still realistic and give the movie character. I think if a fan makes an edit of Star Wars focused on fixing errors in the movie, they should fix things like the shirt that changes color between shots, but leave the stormtrooper head-bang alone (I will refrain from mentioning a particular fan edit to keep this from being personal).

jzilli said:

This is what's known as a "slippery slope".  If Team Blu and Harmy are restoring the original versions of the film and they decide to change anything, then that opens the door for other changes or fixes.

I understand what you're saying and I see where you're coming from, but for the sake of argument I could just as easily say that what you're saying is known as a "false dichotomy"; in other words, claiming that we either have to allow no change from what was theatrically shown in 1977 OR ELSE any change all the way up to the current blu-ray release would have to be allowed on the table of discussion. This is also a relativist point of view that treats the words "Episode IV A New Hope" as though they are in the same category as every change made since 1997, so if we listen to the guy who wants those words in the crawl then we supposedly also have to listen to the guy who wants Luke to reunite with Biggs before the attack on the Death Star.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand and appreciate this perspective. My intention here is not to be antagonistic. But with all friendly intentions I must say I strongly disagree with this viewpoint. We all essentially want the same thing here: the original movie preserved the way it was before Lucas started noticeably changing it from the movie we grew up with. I can like the New Hope word crawl and still be part of this club, instead of the club that allows infinite fan edits and versions.

Please forgive my tendency to be long winded. You can actually ignore all of the above but please consider this last thing: if anyone who knows how to work on these preservations wouldn't mind making a version with the exact picture and sound quality of Team Blu's or Harmy's except with the New Hope crawl, I would appreciate having that available as an alternative preservation. Obviously it would have to be a convincing approximation of existing versions of the word crawl and not a new version that looks nothing like what's come before; it's not like just anything that says "New Hope" would be acceptable. I'm just throwing this out there as a humble request, not trying to irritate anyone, I'm just hoping someone who knows how to do a good job with my request won't mind indulging me.

I have chosen to put this request on dark_jedi's and Harmy's threads since I essentially just want their versions with this one change, so I figured asking for a whole new fan project in a brand new thread would be overkill. I can't thank you guys enough for what you do, and I appreciate your time.

I heartily agree with you imperialscum

This is what George Lucas says about Greedo shooting first in a 2012 interview with "The Hollywood Reporter":

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."

Here is how the scene was described in the 1976 book "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker", where Greedo is referred to as "the unctuous alien" and "the creature":

“Light and noise filled the little corner of the cantina, and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking, slimy spot on the stone floor.

Solo brought his hand and the smoking weapon it held out from beneath the table, drawing bemused stares from several of the cantina’s patrons and chuckling sounds from its more knowledgeable ones. They had known the creature had committed its fatal mistake in allowing Solo the chance to get his hands under cover”.

So Lucas claims that Greedo always shot first, but it doesn't really sound that way in the book. Also, Lucas thinks that what the fans want is for Han to be a "cold blooded killer", which shows that Lucas misunderstands where the fans are coming from. The following is copied and pasted from swtor.com, it's a post on there by a fan named "AcousticColors" who sums up George's misunderstanding better than I can:

"nobody believes shooting somebody with a gun pointed at you who just told you that they could arrange to have something taken over your dead body makes you a cold blooded killer. That's called self defense.

So, let's look at the scenario...

The way the fans want it...

Greedo sits two feet from Han... Han realizes Greedo is about to squeeze off a bolt, and at this range, there's no way he could miss, so Han preemptively pulls out his own blaster under the table and fires first, the shot hits, causing Greedo's aim to veer and hit the wall near Han's head.

The way Lucas wants it...

Greedo sits two feet from Han... Han realizes Greedo is about to squeeze off a bolt and pulls his own blaster out under the table. Even so, Han sits there and lets a shot get off, counting on the fact that this bounty hunter has such horrible, horrible aim that he can't hit a large, non-moving target that's sitting two feet away. Han's incredibly stupid gamble pays off, Greedo does in fact miss the broad side of a barn, and then Han shoots him.


Which of those is the better story? It's not about wanting Han to be a cold blooded killer, it's about not wanting Greedo to be such a worthless Bounty Hunter that he can't hit somebody sitting right in front of him, and not wanting Han to be an idiot who just sat there and let himself get shot at from near point blank range."

I was addressing my original post to Harmy, so now in hindsight I realize that perhaps it should have been a message sent to him directly instead of posted here where it's more public.

HanDuet said:

 the goal of Harmy's Despecialized Edition is not just "to remove 'Special Edition' changes." If it were, then that means we wouldn't be concerned with the additional changes made with the Blu-ray release (which clearly doesn't make sense).

Actually HanDuet, I was using the phrase "Special Edition changes" to mean any change made to the movies from 1997 up to the present. Forgive me for phrasing it that way, but please reread my post with that understanding.

In response to CatBus, I never said I wanted the picture quality to look like watching a VHS tape on a low def tube TV screen. The picture quality of Harmy's edition is actually one of my favorite things about it and I wouldn't want it any lower def than it is (in fact, I'd like it to be even higher def). The higher definition of Harmy's edition is the main reason that I like it so much better than dark_jedi's v3 DVD release. Anything lower def than dark_jedi's release is unwatchable in my opinion. All I'm asking for is a movie that has all the quality of Harmy's edition, except with the words "Episode IV A New Hope" in the opening crawl. I shouldn't need to request that a whole new fan project be started just to make this one little change.

In response to Gogogadget, if you can do that and make it seamless with no loss of any quality, I would adore that.

Dear dark_jedi, I cannot thank you enough for what you are doing. You are awesome! You and Harmy are my favorite people in the world.

Having said that, I just want to vent a little about something I already vented about in Harmy's thread, so most of what follows is copied and pasted from what I typed there.

This is about something that bothers me but it's not specific to your work. It's a general trend I've noticed in fan preservations. It's the lack of "Episode IV A New Hope" in the opening title crawl of the first movie.

I know, I know, the original theatrical presentation in 1977 didn't have those words. But surely almost everybody grew up watching copies that did, right? Those words were not a "Special Edition" alteration, but you almost wouldn't know that anymore from examining the current non-special edition fan preservations that are around.

To be honest, when I watch the opening crawl without those words, it's just as foreign to me as Han stepping on Jabba's tail or Greedo shooting first. As far as I know, before the GOUT DVDs in 2006, everybody's home video version of Star Wars said "A New Hope" at the beginning. People watched it once (or a few times) in the theater in 1977 without those words, but then spent the rest of the next two decades watching it with those words included in their homes over and over and over. So Star Wars hasn't been restored to what I grew up with unless Jabba is taken out, Han shoots first, and "A New Hope" is included in the opening crawl.

It's not that I don't appreciate a true original theatrical restoration. I'd much rather watch it without the episode number than watch the Special Editions. But I find it hard to believe that I'm in a minority when I say that the title crawl with no episode heading is not the Star Wars I burned into my soul for almost two decades growing up.

But let me just bottom line this by saying the thing that really scares me - if the 1977 theatrical presentation continues to be the ongoing trend in fan preservation, then the only way for future generations to see the words "A New Hope" in High Def will be to watch the Special Editions. And that's not fair, because the words "Episode IV A New Hope" are not a Special Edition innovation and a person should not be forced to turn to the Special Edition in order to see those words.

Forgive me for being long winded, and I hope that what I have said has not negated any of the praise and appreciation I have for your preserving work. I know what you're probably thinking: "why doesn't deepanddark make his own fan edit instead of whining about what other people are doing." And I wouldn't really have a rebuttal to that.

Harmy, you are amazing. I know I've thanked you before, but it can never be said enough.

I have one little issue with Star Wars Despecialized Edition v2.5. The scene when Luke goes outside to stare at the twin sunset on Tatooine looks like it's too bright in my opinion. I've compared it with several other copies I have of the pre-special edition movie, and yours sticks out as being lighter, almost like it's earlier in the day than the other copies I've seen.

However I do have to praise your awesome job of color correcting the suns, and the mountain's reappearance in the shot is seamless.

I suppose while I'm on this thread I'll mention one more little personal issue I have, but this next thing I'm about to mention is not specifically an issue with your despecialized edition but with a general trend I've noticed in fan preservations. It's the lack of "Episode IV A New Hope" in the opening title crawl.

I know, I know, the original theatrical presentation in 1977 didn't have those words. But surely almost everybody grew up watching copies that did, right? Those words were not a "Special Edition" alteration, so if your goal is to remove "Special Edition" changes, you don't have to remove those words.

To be honest, when I watch the opening crawl without those words, it's just as foreign to me as Han stepping on Jabba's tail or Greedo shooting first. As far as I know, before the GOUT DVDs in 2006, everybody's home video version of Star Wars said "A New Hope" at the beginning. People watched it once (or a few times) in the theater in 1977 without those words, but then spent the rest of the next two decades watching it with those words included in their homes over and over and over. So Star Wars hasn't been restored to what I grew up with unless Jabba is taken out, Han shoots first, and "A New Hope" is put back in.

But anyway, my main concern in this post is the brightness of the Tatooine sunset, since I really think it's supposed to be darker. Thank you again for how amazing you are!

When it comes to theatrical versions, Harmy's Despecialized Editions are so much better looking than any other version that I can't believe there's any debate about it. We're not talking a small difference here; put the other versions side by side and the superiority of Harmy's picture quality sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm a fan of dark_jedi and I am eagerly keeping an eye out for his next release, but until then I don't think there's really a contest here.

As for DVD covers and labels, both Harmy and dark_jedi have very nice ones for their releases. Adywan does too for that matter.

EDIT: All that stuff above was me running my mouth when I didn't know nearly as much as I know now about the differences between different preservation projects and the source material used by them. I still love Harmy's editions, but nowadays I would speak in a more balanced way when comparing his editions to others.