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danny_boy

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23-Oct-2009
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12-Mar-2023
Posts
385

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Post
#579764
Topic
George Lucas leaves Lucasfilm
Time

generalfrevious said:

We are nasty to him because he shows contempt for us.

 

So why did'nt you bash George in 1977 when he filmed star wars on the inferior 35mm(compared to 70mm) format?

Why didn't you bash him for opting to use an optical mono track  for the prints that would be seen(and heard) by the majority of  cinema goers  in the U.S and around the world in 77'/78'?

Why didn't you bash him in 1981 when he appended the Episode IV title onto Star wars for  that year's re-release?

Post
#579762
Topic
Are There Any Visually Striking Moments in the PT?
Time

CP3S said:

danny_boy said:

Atta boy

You stick to your 35mm deluxe prints:

You wouldn't happen to be gloating about the OUT not being available in some high quality modern medium, would you?

Because that would be pretty trollish of you, if that is what you were doing.

No---I was reacting to the very trollish response of Dural energizer to my hypothesis that digital has some advantages over 35mm film.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#579338
Topic
Are There Any Visually Striking Moments in the PT?
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

danny_boy said:

Film does have it's limitations.

On the other hand---Avatar and ROTS(and the other prequels) look amazing-----the images are as clean as a whistle.

I always considered myself a film/analogue man-----but maybe I am coming round to Lucas's(and Cameron's) "digital is best" way of thinking.

Atta boy

You stick to your 35mm deluxe prints:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#579248
Topic
Are There Any Visually Striking Moments in the PT?
Time

Bingowings said:

Dan you must be easy to startle :-D

LOL!---I guess so!

 

Having said that I have run Taxi Driver(which was sampled from a 4k master) and Close Encounters of the third Kind Blu ray discs through the internal sony 4k upscale algorithm(called reality creation) and the grain density in both these 2 films is very heavy to the point of distraction(it is definitely not digital noise------you can see the grain increase on any shot with optical effects---wipes/dissolves ect)

 

Film does have it's limitations.

On the other hand---Avatar and ROTS(and the other prequels) look amazing-----the images are as clean as a whistle.

I always considered myself a film/analogue man-----but maybe I am coming round to Lucas's(and Cameron's) "digital is best" way of thinking.

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#566980
Topic
Was George Lucas a trickster the whole time?
Time

generalfrevious said:

none said:

generalfrevious wrote: Let's discuss the third question I made three posts ago about the stature of the OT.

Is where we begin to use the phrase 'George Lucas unraped my childhood'.  Or is the official sanctioned phrase now 'George Lucas unraped my adulthood.'  'Lucasfilm unraped my personhood'.  Admiral Ackbar unraped my trap?

More like the OT is no longer the great films they once were, or what PT defenders say about the OT.

 

LOL!

More like you have watched Star Wars so many times that you can no longer enjoy it.

That may apply to a lot of people here.

 

 

Post
#565207
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

Harmy said:

silverwheel said:

But this "final cut" has not been provided - who will provide it, if not the fanedits?  (please note that I have yet to encounter a fanedit that actually does a good job of this, but I know it is possible).  

You know, in a way, that actually supports my point; I don't know this for a fact but from what you say, I assume there were fanedits that tried to make this "final cut" but failed, right? And what if someone's first experience with Superman II is one of these? That's my point, a fan editor may very well make a film better but he may just as well make it worse and I have no problem with that, as long as the people watching it are aware that they're watching a vision of some guy from the internets and are already familiar with the original material assembled by the people who created it or, yes,  paid for it - then if the faneditor made the film worse, it doesn't form the viewer's opinion on it.

 

This reminds me of a chap called selutron who re-edited superman II:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=interview-selutron

He shot new scenes and even pitched director Donner and Manclewitz(Superman script writer).

He was recieved well but obviously he was still nothing more than a guy behind a computer pretending to be something bigger.

He was dismissed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#565200
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

silverwheel said:

CatBus said:

EDIT: This means that IMO fan edits are EXACTLY the same as the Special Editions, by every moral measure except fraud.

Considering that Lucas didn't direct ESB or ROTJ, I would argue that those Special Editions are rather morally questionable, since he's screwing around with them at his leisure, and then telling us in the end credits that they were directed by Irvin Kershner or Richard Marquand.  No, these are not the films made by those people.  

 

Film making is a collaborative process by it's very nature.

Parts of  any /most films have a lot of 2nd unit footage(shot by a different director) which still has to be approved by the main director before it finds it's way into the final edit.

For instance, the battle at Helms Deep in LOTR:The 2 Towers was NOT shot by Peter Jackson-----considering it is such a pivotal part of that movie's climax  it's quite surprising that Jackson did not helm it-----but he still Quality controlled how it got edited into the final cut.

Lucas "collaborated" with both Marquand and Kershner as they shot  their respective films...from conception to execution(aswell as participating in some 2nd unit direction).

For Empire:

While The Empire was being made, Lucas showed up at the London studios, where the interiors were shot, only three times. "I'd invite him to stand by the camera," says Kershner, "and he wouldn't. He'd say, 'It's your picture.' Then he'd stand way, way back somewhere, craning his neck." Kershner added his own touches, such as softer, more reflected lighting than the direct light Lucas employed in Star Wars. But he was always operating with Lucas' story, and he knew that Lucas, diffident as he was, was looking over his shoulder. If Lucas was in California, a videotape of the rushes was flown from London after each day's shooting.

 

For Jedi:

Says Marquand: "It is as if Lucas were a famous composer who said to me, 'Here's a 120-piece orchestra. Here's my music. I'd like you to conduct.' "


George has every right to tamper with these films irrespective of whether the final outcome improves or degenerates the final product.

 

Post
#565195
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

Paramecium302 said:

I watch whichever one is most convenient at the time. For instance, I am watching ESB Blu-Ray as I type this. But, as soon as I get a new VHS I am popping in the 1985 widescreens. I think it was '85 anyways...

 

Yep-----same me!

Although the 1st widescreen VHS's were released in 1991.

(i think it was available on laserdisc as early as 1987 in Japan and 1989 in the US)

Post
#563347
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

Harmy said:

Well, you see, in the movie business, there's this job called "editor." And such a person takes what the director and all the others shot, very often without having anything to do with the process up to that point and cuts it into a coherent film, because that is their art. And, while of course the situation with fan editors is a bit different, I still don't see any harm with someone making their preferred cut of a movie, since they're only editing a copy of the film and it has no bearing whatsoever on the version preferred by the original creator. It's like if I bought a printed replica of a famous painting, I don't see why I couldn't make a photocopy of it and paint a few extra things on that copy before hanging it on my wall. And if my friend happens to like it, why not make a copy for him? In fact, many artists have done similar things, taking a photo or a copy of a famous piece of art and changing it, so that it became a new, different piece of art.

 

Even the editing fell under Lucas's jurisdiction---he may not have been involved directly on a day to day basis but everything that Marcia,Hirsch and Chew produced went through him for final approval in 77'.

And Lucas was a pretty shit hot editor himself back in his student days.

He also had the audacity to fire Jimpson whose initial edit(parts of which we have been able to see) was cumbersome at best-----a risk for sure given the studio pressures and time constraints that Lucas  was already under in the fall of 76'.

 

How did George Lucas and Gary Kurtz ‘direct’ you? Did they have specific requests or guidelines?

Paul Hirsch:
Gary was not involved in aesthetic editorial decisions. George basically let me do my thing with each scene, and then would give me notes. And he consulted very closely with Marcia of course. And then at a certain point, he decided he preferred working with just one editor, and chose me to finish the film. I was the only editor on the picture over the last 5 months, during which they re-shot the Cantina sequence; R2 in the canyon, captured by the Jawas; some of the land-speeder shots; as well as the gearing-up of the planet-destroying weapon on the Death Star. It was during this period that we completed the blue-screen shots and I watched the space sequences come to life as the backgrounds were filled in.

http://starwarsinterviews1.blogspot.com/2010/07/paul-hirsch-editor-star-wars.html


Fan editors experience no such comparitive pressure when they sit in the comfort of their own homes behind computer screens with only themselves to act  as judge, jury and executioner----on someone else's piece of work.

 

 


 

Post
#563305
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

thecolorsblend said:

 

Harmy said:

Yeah, on BD that wipe is back to how it was in theatres.


Also, the simple reason faneditors get away with what GL doesn't is that they don't make anyone watch their edit, you can choose to watch it if you want but if you want to watch the film the way its creators made it, you can, I fail to see how there can be any argument there.

Hey, not trying to pick a fight here. But fan editors take a director's vision, carve it up and usually make at best a lateral change in terms of improvement overall. I'm not saying there aren't good concepts out there. I heard about one fan edit that did a Godfather Saga thing with the movies by intercutting the six films among each other. Maybe these editors do genuinely improve the material in some cases. Maybe the director in question truly lacked in the "vision" department. All the same, I just don't think they have any moral right to alter that vision, irrespective of their talents, their legit improvements, the availability of the real cuts or anything else. That, and I think their creative energies would probably be better served in developing their own creations rather than cutting up someone else's.

 

 

Well said.

Agree 100%.

A fan editor never recruited and directed the actors,liased with the art,special effects and production crews and consulted and collaborated with the musical composer.

A fan editor never concieved of the ideas and scenarios that are encapsulated in the scripts.

Lucas did and continues to do all of the above for better or for worse.

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#562259
Topic
Save Star Wars Dot Com
Time

zombie84 said:

Yeah, they were interviewing me because they were sent a review copy a while back and they needed an expert for a piece on the re-release. I would have asked to pass a message on to George but they had already spoken to him by the time they got to me. One day I will speak with that man! Or at least at him, as his personality goes.

Have you tried this:

publicity@lucasfilm.com

Post
#550961
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

danny_boy said:

"better sound in the movies is a must now that the public is hifi conscious and yes indeed---we'd like to here it on TV aswell"

The Robesonian 11/24/1977

Ok, I still don't get the point.  In fact, the above quote supports MY point... that the public in the late-70s was very hifi conscious (as opposed to your original claim).

p.s. - "we'd like to here it..."?

@puggo

I respect your opinion and I understand where you are coming from.

But that quote accentuates my point too-----that the audience pined for improved sound quality on their TV's----which obviously did not hold a candle to listening to a 6 track magnetic presentation in a 70mm auditorium(so it was always easier to be impressed when watching such a presentation).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#550408
Topic
Theory on the 1997 "restoration".
Time

none said:

^ As you're cntrl C/P, could you do the full article?  The 748 out of 2,228 is a great number to read in print.

By JOE MORGENSTERN

Back on the big screen after 20 years, "Star Wars" has regained its grandeur; that far-away galaxy was never meant to be squeezed into videocassettes. George Lucas's special rejiggered edition will be a revelation for kids who've never seen this seminal space opera in a theater, and a delicious treat for longtime "Star Wars" lovers, of which I'm one.

It's great to rediscover sly Obi-Wan Kenobi at the height of his powers, and spunky Luke in the fullness of his shallowness; to rejoin that most charming of gay couples, R2-D2 and C-3PO; to revisit that "wretched hive of scum and villainy," the space port Mos Eisley, now a much busier hive thanks to the wizardly interweaving of new footage. But at a recent screening I, like Obi-Wan, felt a disturbance in the Force. If my unease was less than his, I started feeling it earlier in the picture, about the time Luke first appears on the sands of his home planet, Tatooine. The colors, once so radiant, seemed subtly wrong. The print looked faded here, muddy there, occasionally beset by fluctuating reds, sometimes far too blue.

[Media]

C-3PO and R2-D2

Wrong compared to what, though? To the objective rightness of some perfectly preserved master? Or to my subjective, unreliable memories that may have grown in radiance as the movie grew in reputation? I sought answers and found them, thanks to the help and candor of three topnotch obsessives who had supervised this restoration: Tom Christopher from Lucasfilm, Ted Gagliano from 20th Century Fox and the veteran film consultant Leon Briggs. I learned that the film medium itself is more unreliable, more shockingly fragile, than I'd ever guessed--not just notorious old nitrate stock, but the stuff being used today. Many of our most cherished modern movies, features from the 1970s and even the 1980s that form the canon of contemporary cinema, are already in deep decay, and could be lost to theatrical audiences forever.

First a sense of how close to the grave the big-screen version of "Star Wars" actually came. (While quite good versions are widely available on laserdisk, the disks can never be blown up into theatrical prints because they don't provide anywhere near enough resolution.)

The movie was shot, in 1976, on four different varieties of Eastmancolor stock, all of them bad--i.e. subject to rapid fading and color shifts--in different ways. Shortly after production, the finished negative was supposedly preserved on a pair of YCM protective masters; the term refers to a three-strip process in which a record of each basic color component--yellow, cyan and magenta--is deposited separately in stable silver, rather than unstable dye, on black-and-white film stock that may last for more than a century (or may not; like every other archival medium, including optical disks, the YCM process has its quirks and instabilities).

But the preservation effort was botched, mostly by a failure to clean the negative before copying it, and the studio never bothered to inspect the final results. Far from constituting a single studio's sin, such neglect of corporate assets was endemic to Hollywood at the time, and remains widespread today.

As a consequence, the restoration team was forced to struggle with a negative that was not only dirty but badly worn, from making thousands of prints, and was seriously faded, even though it had been stored at prescribed temperatures and humidity in a vault 650 feet down in a salt mine near Wichita, Kan. Blue skies and rich blacks had lost their luster. Silver had almost vanished from the emulsion in certain scenes, like the prelude to Kenobi's duel to the death with Darth Vader. Flesh tones had turned pallid. Strobing effects and those red fluctuations had mysteriously appeared. Some parts, such as the Tatooine desert sequences shot in Tunisia, had never had much luster to begin with. ("Star Wars," it's useful to recall, was first considered the slapdash work of a brash young upstart.) Other pieces weren't even original negative, but intentionally degraded duplicates that Mr. Lucas had stuck in to avoid emphasizing the quality of adjacent optical effects, some of which were so crude as to be almost unacceptable.

Tom Christopher, the Lucasfilm editor in charge of restoring the "Star Wars" trilogy, describes the team's three-year travail as deconstruction; another term might be Herculean, as in those nasty stables. Each optical effect had to be taken apart, layer by layer, link by link. Gaps and defects were replaced by original trims and outtakes, which Mr. Lucas had kept in his own vaults. Precious pieces of negative were washed, rewashed, matted, filtered ("We were handling the Holy Grail!" Mr. Christopher says), chemically or optically manipulated when possible, replaced with other original or duplicate material when necessary. Eventually 748 of the 2,228 shots in the movie were redone in the course of creating a new negative, from which some 2,000 new prints have been struck for the current national release. (Similar though less extensive work has been done for the two sequels, "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi.")

When I met Messrs. Christopher, Gagliano and Briggs in a projection room on the 20th Century Fox lot in Los Angeles earlier this week, they ran a demonstration reel of their work. Side-by-side, before-and-after comparisons of a dozen or so shots convinced me that they'd done wonders, albeit incomplete ones. "It can't be a perfect restoration," Mr. Christopher acknowledged, "because you can't go back 20 years. But this film has a heart, which is what we hope audiences will respond to again. This is a film that lots of people remember in the same way they remember key moments of their lives; they talk about the day they first saw 'Star Wars.'"

The demonstration also convinced me that the current or imminent decay of relatively recent films represents a cultural emergency. What films? A list might start with "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," "The Conformist," "Shampoo," "The Conversation," "The Godfather," "Taxi Driver," "Apocalypse Now" and "Raiders of the Lost Ark." They may be safe for a while on video and laserdisk, but not in the only format that can do them full justice. I'll write again soon about what is being done and what ought to be done to keep our movie heritage on the big screen.

 

Post
#550407
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

danny_boy said:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XuxVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zEANAAAAIBAJ&pg=6767,2774626&dq=70mm+6+track+star+wars&hl=en

Nice article.  Although I'm not sure how it bolsters your point.

"better sound in the movies is a must now that the public is hifi conscious and yes indeed---we'd like to here it on TV aswell"

The Robesonian 11/24/1977

Post
#549616
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

danny_boy said:

When people went to watch SW in 70mm back in 77'----all they had in their homes were crude mono sounding TV's(and stereo gramaphones for their vinyl's)   So they were always going to be blown away by a 6 track magnetic audio presentation in a cinema!!

Nonsense.  I wouldn't be surprised if the stereos in people's homes sounded better in 1977 - on average - than they do today.  Back then people typically listened to music in high fidelity, whereas today people are accustomed to listening to music that has suffered from the "loudness wars", and/or been squashed into mp3 and listened through earbuds.  So one could argue that on average a person visiting a theater in the late 70s is more likely to be able to discern a lack of dynamic range than today's average listener.

"Gramaphones"?  The Gramophone company went out of business in the 1930s.  My memory of the late 1970s was Macintosh, Thorens, Pioneer, M&K, Klipsch, etc.  Quadraphonic surround had been around for nearly 10 years.

 

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XuxVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zEANAAAAIBAJ&pg=6767,2774626&dq=70mm+6+track+star+wars&hl=en

 

Post
#549504
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

 

@Hairy_hen

I hear you mate----I guess marketing has a big part to play.


Star Wars Episode I: Production Notes



May 1, 1999

Music and Sound

With the Star Wars films, George Lucas has always been intent on using state-of- the-art sound. "I'm very much into sound and soundtracks," he comments, noting that the two work together in telling his stories.

The first Star Wars was instrumental in popularizing the Dolby noise-reduction stereo sound system, as did the two subsequent Episodes in the original trilogy. Motion picture audio technology has since made significant improvements with the introduction of digital sound and Lucasfilm's THX program. So, for The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition, Lucas created a digitally-remixed soundtrack, which surpassed even the original's showcase 70mm prints that used magnetic tracks.

http://starwars.com/episode-i/bts/production/f19990501/index.html?page=8" target="_blank" title="web.archive.org/web/20101220155850/http://starwars.com/episode-i/bts/production/f19990501/index.html?page=8">http://web.archive.org/web/20101220155850/http://starwars.com/episode-i/bts/production/f19990501/index.html?page=8

I agree with everything you say although I would add context as another factor(along with subjectivity).

When people went to watch SW in 70mm back in 77'----all they had in their homes were crude mono sounding TV's(and stereo gramaphones for their vinyl's)

So they were always going to be blown away by a 6 track magnetic audio presentation in a cinema!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#549347
Topic
Theory on the 1997 "restoration".
Time

 

This is the best article I have found describing the dissection of the o-neg:

 

As a consequence, the restoration team was forced to struggle with a negative that was not only dirty but badly worn, from making thousands of prints, and was seriously faded, even though it had been stored at prescribed temperatures and humidity in a vault 650 feet down in a salt mine near Wichita, Kan. Blue skies and rich blacks had lost their luster. Silver had almost vanished from the emulsion in certain scenes, like the prelude to Kenobi's duel to the death with Darth Vader. Flesh tones had turned pallid. Strobing effects and those red fluctuations had mysteriously appeared. Some parts, such as the Tatooine desert sequences shot in Tunisia, had never had much luster to begin with. ("Star Wars," it's useful to recall, was first considered the slapdash work of a brash young upstart.) Other pieces weren't even original negative, but intentionally degraded duplicates that Mr. Lucas had stuck in to avoid emphasizing the quality of adjacent optical effects, some of which were so crude as to be almost unacceptable.

Tom Christopher, the Lucasfilm editor in charge of restoring the "Star Wars" trilogy, describes the team's three-year travail as deconstruction; another term might be Herculean, as in those nasty stables. Each optical effect had to be taken apart, layer by layer, link by link. Gaps and defects were replaced by original trims and outtakes, which Mr. Lucas had kept in his own vaults. Precious pieces of negative were washed, rewashed, matted, filtered ("We were handling the Holy Grail!" Mr. Christopher says), chemically or optically manipulated when possible, replaced with other original or duplicate material when necessary. Eventually 748 of the 2,228 shots in the movie were redone in the course of creating a new negative, from which some 2,000 new prints have been struck for the current national release. (Similar though less extensive work has been done for the two sequels, "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi.")

When I met Messrs. Christopher, Gagliano and Briggs in a projection room on the 20th Century Fox lot in Los Angeles earlier this week, they ran a demonstration reel of their work. Side-by-side, before-and-after comparisons of a dozen or so shots convinced me that they'd done wonders, albeit incomplete ones. "It can't be a perfect restoration," Mr. Christopher acknowledged, "because you can't go back 20 years. But this film has a heart, which is what we hope audiences will respond to again. This is a film that lots of people remember in the same way they remember key moments of their lives; they talk about the day they first saw 'Star Wars.'"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB854660380658056000.html?mod=googlewsj

 

Post
#549294
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

hairy_hen said:

Who to believe, let me see: Steve Hoffman, one of the most respected names in the audio world . . . or Rick McCallum, Lucasfilm sycophant extraordinaire?

This is even a question?

 

Let's clear up some facts here.  Contrary to what some seem to believe, Star Wars actually had an incredibly powerful sound in its original form.  Whenever anyone disparages it in that way, their comments only apply to the 35mm versions of the soundtrack.  Due to technological limitations, the frequency response and dynamic range of the stereo and mono mixes was indeed quite limited, and since the vast majority of theatres had prints featuring these tracks, it's not surprising that the SE mix would be received positively in comparison.  But that's not what I'm talking about: I refer specifically to the six-channel mix that was designed for use on 70mm prints.  Only a few of these were ever produced, played in high-end theatres in major cities, but it was by far the best-sounding version of the film ever made.

I shall air a comment from Mike Minkler, who worked on the audio:

" . . . it was the birth of baby boom. The 6-track was devised by Steve Katz, who was the Dolby consultant on the show. When we were predubbing reel 1 spaceships, we couldn't get this big thunderous low end that we wanted on the pass-by. We were going to do what we called a “Todd spread” back then, which was to record a left, center and right, and a surround — then fill in channels 2 and 4, the left extra and right extra, with information from these adjacent channels. But Steve said, “What if we used 2 and 4 for boom only, the low-frequency information, and we'll use full-range speakers.” Well, we didn't have them; we had the Altec A4 speakers, and we put low-frequency material in there as much as we could to enhance the spaceships. And every time there was an explosion, there was a sweetener that was cut for those two channels."

http://www.mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_mike_minkler/index.html

 

The entire concept of including separate tracks for bass content in fact originated with the 70mm version of Star Wars.  It was the first movie that ever had such a mix, and people fortunate enough to have seen it this way speak fondly of the Star Destroyer's opening flyby in particular.  Sure, there were still limitations involved, since most theatres wouldn't have installed dedicated subwoofers until later that year, and the rear channel was monaural since stereo surrounds were not yet included in the 70mm format.  We're not talking about the kind of enormous, ubiquitous bass found in recent films like The Dark Knight, obviously—but it was definitely there, and it was definitely strong.  To say otherwise is to just demonstrably false.

Unfortunately, none of this played any part in the creation of the SE, because most of that mix was taken from a 4-track master and then dynamically limited, robbing it of much of its power.  The bass content was created over again from scratch (the 4-track master didn't have it), often to a decidedly lesser effect.  The beginning in particular suffers, as the Star Destroyer's bass is only barely audible and could not be called "thunderous" (to use Minkler's term) by any stretch of the imagination.  Other parts of the SE do have more punch, but most of these correspond to places where the movie was changed and new elements added.

One need only listen to the 1993 laserdisc track, which was sourced from the 70mm printmaster, to hear the enormously powerful dynamic range of the original.  Compared to that, the SE is a tinny, shrunken, and overly-hissy shadow of what the film's real sound is supposed to be.  Why they didn't base it on the 70mm version is something I can't for the life of me understand, but I can only surmise that everyone at Lucasfilm somehow forgot that it even existed.  But then, seeing how allergic to quality they've become, perhaps it's not surprising that they would think something so obviously inferior was really an improvement.

To be fair, some parts of the 1997 mix do sound pretty good.  Certainly it's a million times better than the garbage remix we got in 2004.  But on the whole, the 70mm version is so far ahead of it that there's really no comparison.

 

Thanks to HH, it turns out that's easy to do!  But I'm sure Rick might be right about other things.

Keep in mind, of course, that my version is only a recreation, not the real thing.  But I do think most of it is very close to what it was.  ;)

 

 Hoffman did not have access to the original audio print masters like Lucas ,Burrt (and ultimately ---I am guessing---McCallum).

Every time this subject comes up the people who actually worked ,manipulated and handled the very source elements which created those 3 mythic 1977 soundmixes------- insist they needed revamping for 'modern presentations".

McCallum spoke by phone from Industrial Light and Magic in Marin County, the special-effects studio Lucas created after the success of "Star Wars." "The sound was so imaginative, so electric, but there was no way you could really hear it," McCallum said. The original was released in 70-millimeter in just a few locations. Those prints had magnetic tracks that allowed John Williams' score to be heard in what approximated today's digital sound. This new version has been digitally re-mixed so that the sound quality exceeds even those 70mm engagements. 

THE RETURN OF STAR WARS RE-RELEASE OFFERS A SHOT AT PERFECTION

 Donald Munro The Fresno Bee
Originally published 1997-01-31

 

 

 

 

 

Post
#548966
Topic
I want my kids to see the unaltered Original Trilogy in a real theater
Time

hairy_hen said:

The SE mix, better than the 70mm?  Don't make me laugh.  The '97 mix is very dynamically shrunken compared to the 70mm version, and often sounds tinny and weak in general.  It's not nearly as bad as the 2004 version, of course, because it's still recognisable, but it's really not that good a lot of the time.

Steve Hoffman, who got to see a good condition 70mm print a few years ago, agrees with me.  http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-141011.html

 

Who to believe----Rick McCallum or Steve Hoffman:

 

Rick McCallum: This is one of the tools we use.e You remember what explosions were like 20 years ago? You couldn't have low frequency bass, like you can now and in a good theater you can feel that explosion and millions of people on Alderaan crying out for help. It goes  straight to your body. It's all low frequency. But you need a theater owner who cares about his audience, who's willing to invest money and time to knock you right off your seat.

http://www.maikeldas.com/SWrick1eng.html

 

And Ben Burtt is not far behind:

"We created the surrounds all over again, so that we could take advantage of the split surrounds that we now have. We were able to extend the high- and low-frequency material, as it can be played back in theatres now, so we could add more subwoofer to the rumbling spaceships or explosions, and attain a higher fidelity in the music and so on."

"In looking at Star Wars, we were amazed at how articulate the final space battle was, years later. We didn't do a lot to change that, except adding subwoofer material to the explosions. Where we had spaceships flying past the camera, we added the sound of them continuing into the surround speakers; we brought the sound off the screen and into the room more than the original movie. There was an attempt to spatially envelop the audience, but there is a limit to what you can hear and what will work."


http://lavender.fortunecity.com/hawkslane/575/starwars-advanced.htm