captainsolo

I agree that it probably wouldn’t do very much. The only benefit would be something more along the lines of what schorman was saying by taking individual elements that are better in one source and then applying them to another.
(Nice point about ROTS…and to think that was the one BD I thought would actually be an improvement! Haha, guess they never do learn…)

Posted impressions in the new thread.

This is incredible guys. Just…wow…never in a million years did I ever think we’d have such a working facsimile of 1977 presentation…but it’s here…hard to believe, especially as so much looks actually quite familiar to some things in the JSC and others we’ve debated and picked apart all these years.

So v1.5 will add the mono mix? If so…YES!!! The Puggo grande made me a huge mono mix fanboy.

Unbelievable…not only does all this seem incredible after all these years but it also gives many answers about the video transfers we’ve all debated for years.

Tech is always different and even varies from IB print to IB print, plus all SW prints were done in the UK whose labs always turned out different results than the US lab, generally a colder and more refined palette than the “Technicolor” vivid that came in US prints. (For example, many of the classic Hammers were much more vivid in color here in US prints when compared to UK ones. This has led to the big color debate on HORROR OF DRACULA) Any archivist or preservationist worth their salt will tell you they can’t ever be a fully accurate color representation because of this, unless there is a director/cinematographer supervised check print etc. and even then they had to allow for the printing nature to color the results.

But comparing the two shows the Eastman/LPP as having that elevated contrasty look we’re so used to that is inherent in both JSC/SWE and even to a degree in the GOUT/Definitive/Faces. The grain is also clunkier and more consistent with the little bit we could see in old SD video. The IB vaults ahead on every level, and yes at times the color is too rich compared to what was shot…just like a proper CRT can round out a perfect video image with blacks and color depth. AFAIC it nails it, but then again I’m a diehard Tech supporter. It isn’t exactly what was shot and presented in 1977 as the E/LPP is, but probably the best the film ever was-just as the 70mm blowups bumped the sound to the Dolby 70mm format, the IB prints increased the PQ in every possible way while providing a much more refined, natural and visually pleasing image.

I also think this is the reason why GL loved his personal IB print, and requested the 97SE be matched to it. This also explains why so many at the time complained the 97 print was not as the last screenings in 93 were. I don’t think they could quite get that IB look without dye transfer, which was only revived in 1999-2003 or so.

Just still beyond shocked we have all this to compare now…reminds us of just how far we’ve all come.

I think the tractor beam line is well done for how quickly it was added and is absolutely essential so that the scene doesn’t feel empty. Without it everyone stares at a monitor, and after an uncomfortable pause Obi-wan magically knows how to disable the tractor beam.

Going back and forth between the 77 stereo and 85 mix shows the range difference. The remix loses the high end detailing and slight bit of what is almost like tape hiss in favor of a more robust smaller range because home systems of the day couldn’t reproduce much further. It sounds slightly boxes in when going back and forth but not bad at all.

This is how I rank them as films standalone.
ANH-4 stars out of 4. Masterpiece.
ESB- 4 stars out of four. Masterpiece.
ROTJ-4 stars out of 4. Simplistic at times serial adventure.
TPM-3.5 stars out of four. Despite numerous narrative flaws this is still a memorable exercise in scifi.
AOTC-2 stars out of four.
ROTS-1.5 stars out of four.
TFA-1.5 stars out of four.

But most people simply say I don’t like anything…

Imagine Terry Gilliam or Ridley Scott for that matter.

Think of all the possibilities if the Mouse tries for all demographics with all the spinoffs.

2019: Wes Anderson’s SW XX

YES!!!

Jetrell Fo said:

I want to go on record right now and say, I STILL enjoy TPM for what it is, long live Qui-Gon Jinn (a HUGE missed opportunity by Lucas).

This. Theatrical cut has a great sound mix and was one of the pinnacles of 35mm exhibition.

I wouldn’t feel so frustrated if I felt the story had been really worth a damn or if it actually fit within the SW universe.
It doesn’t help the corporation’s paws are all over it.

But again that’s my two cents and kudos to all those who enjoyed themselves.

I’ll probably get to see it again with my sisters this upcoming week, but to be honest I don’t think my opinion will change very much.

Though it will be nice to read the novelization by Alan Dean Foster…next month. (Grr.)

But to me, TFA gave me nothing much really–and particularly no spirit nor the feeling that anything new was happening. At least we got this in ROTJ and even the prequels to a much much lesser extent. And what they did do has been done time and time again in the EU over the years with varying degrees of success. Luke has lost countless apprentices and faced numerous dark threats as have everyone else and they gave them believable outcomes that usually reflected the aftermath of the OT very well.

Not for a minute did I buy what goes on in TFA. Han runs off for 20+ years? Leia gives up on the NR government and becomes a General? Luke pulls a SUPERMAN RETURNS but primarily because he’s hurt and ignores the raging galactic war? There’s a random Imperial presence? And a new Dark Lord figure out of nowhere?

Damn…and I thought the NJO was overdone. Time to go back to EU land. To me, TFA underlined my love of the Expanded Universe, and to me it is always canon–not “Legacy”. TFA is an alternate universe in my mind–not just because the fastest draw in the galaxy wouldn’t go down so poorly.

Hands up for all those who feel this new villain rightfully deserved a face full of DL-44?

All my nitpicks and problems aside…it just didn’t have the spirit of STAR WARS. The stuff that grabbed us in the original film and the best of the EU; the spark, the spirit of adventure, the TLC given by nerds in a garage sticking together model kits at breakneck speed, Gary Kurtz and others having to race to finish directing second and third unit insert shots, the intrinsic flaws, the ties to real-life shared experiences, the yearning for something more…in short the Damn Fool Idealistic Crusade.

Since spinoffs are now a bigger thing, that’s the picture I’d make if given the chance. Obi-wAn’s Damn Fool Idealistic Crusade.

Finally got to go. Did the RPX big screen at the same theater where I saw TPM opening week in Dolby EX.

…

The film I was most reminded of while watching this besides STAR WARS? (Abrams TREK reboots I haven’t seen, because I know nothing of ST.) SUPERMAN RETURNS.
Why did Luke do the SR thing? Why? And why and HOW IN THE WORLD did everything suddenly go to hell after dancing in the Ewok village?

So many questions, so many problems, so much that I simply didn’t care about. All this is going to be pure post-screening conjecture and randomness–not a cohesive review as of yet.

The spirit is gone for me. I felt more in even ROTS, which was my most disliked of the prequels. Sure the new characters were great and there were flashes of sparkle in the dialogue here and there and practically whenever Harrison opened his mouth. But that was it. The story continually goes back to SW for no reason. There is nothing new developed, no new plot threads, no new anything other than the three leads. (Well, two leads really.)
And then we have the stuff that felt badly ripped out of the most cliched of the EU, i.e. the Kylo Ren stuff. And then…I said to myself just get it over with guys, you want to kill off Han, and then the scene appeared and they stretched it out forever before finally just giving Harrison what he wanted in 1983.
Nothing is really explained; such as how can there be a New Republic and still be a Civil War, how do the factions fit in if there is a new government and why does the government back a side, where did all the Imperials come from if not a Remnant, what’s up with the brainwashed armies, are both leads meant to be Force-sensitive, What exactly does Rey’s backstory mean, who/how/what is the main vilain…and I could go on and on.

I just…didn’t buy any of it really. I wasn’t involved in the story and couldn’t believe the degree to which they just said f*** it let’s use the original story elements because they worked and are the opposite of the Prequels that the fans hated.
It felt as if the original cast and icons are being dangled in front of us to entice both the heart and the wallet to open.

I feel like I just watched a big fan film derived from a truly bad non-canon EU novel. It looked horribly fake to me, and not the CG ships like I thought it would be–no what I abhorred was how bad the sets looked-particularly the quasi-Imperial ones. To my eyes nothing really fit together, and this was compounded by shooting 35mm stock and then apparently deciding to remove the grain in post. With all the digital effects whizzing about it was the less technical moments I could start to get into.

And boy was the music quoting in the final fight truly weird. I didn’t expect it at all and it was truly jarring to me.

I simply don’t know right now. But it sure wasn’t STAR WARS for me. I’d take even Jar Jar stepping in the poop. Or coarse sand. Or even love has blinded you. Or better yet just bring back the EU.

They should have just done HEIR years ago. Now who knows what the heck Disney will put out every year. Young Han movie…great…just great…

Seriously bummed guys, but I’m glad so many enjoyed themselves.

I can hear George going: “See…it’s not easy to not have another Death Star!”

The sound mix was un-inventive. Perhaps worst of all was the JW score, especially since he understands these so well and truly made the Prequels watchable.

I’m just still in WTF just happened mode. And I too am convinced they digitally softened and altered all of Carrie’s closeups.

Since we all have them available now the best result is usually to try each one and see which you prefer and what sounds best on your setup.
For me I’ve become a huge fan of the mono mix despite having many of the stereo differences ingrained in my memory forever. The 85 track is great and adds the IMO essential tractor beam line back.
And of course the 97SE mix is outstanding too.
I love the mono ESB track. It has a number of things that popped up in the SE mix and sounds exceptional for single channel audio. Otherwise the others sound virtually identical for the most part. ROTJ is similar.
The 97SE mixes are great at introducing the films into the modern six channel layout without losing their original identity. The 2.0 matrix PCM actually sounds even closer due to being similar to the original general release format.

Nothing that isn’t an LD has decent audio. VHS had some good issues but you need a great deck. All the DVDs are **** in sound quality and the continual remixing to 6.1 tracks become continually worse and worse with lessening degrees of fidelity.

One question: how is the 85 mix different to the 77 stereo exactly in terms of the dynamic range? I know everybody says the dr is different but are try just referring to a narrowing of sound field for home viewing?
And did we ever find a difference in the 85 tracks for ESB and ROTJ?

Just re-watched this for my Trilogy watchthrough…but on the xbr960 upscaled to 1080i…
Holy crap!

You all know my complete adoration for the PG, but for the first time I felt like I was actually running the print itself! The PS3 upscaler is pretty good paired with the 960’s 1080i res, and here the PG just shined. Yes, even better than when I projected it. (Used a midmodel Epson IIRC) The colors and densities come across far better due to this magical tube, and even the set’s big issue with phosphor lag wasn’t an issue. And the sound has far more detail to it than I realized…or it may be the fact that I have old Klipsch bookshelfs which can accentuate the highs at times.

Has anything ever come up about actually doing an HD or higher quality file version for PG and PSB without the DVD5 formatting? IIRC Harmy suggested this when going over some untouched PSB shots. And since there were some correction done to PSB…perhaps a Super Puggo Wars might be in order… 😉

Hands down the one thing that makes me feel 7 years old again besides the radio drama. And this comes from an owner of both the Technidisc and JSC. (And I love those too.)

TWINE

SE vs UE vs BD

Of course I can’t afford the super rare Japanese LD soooo…

VQ: It may be the same base element being used. The SE is more colorful but has a number of artifacts, EE, and less detail overall. The UE cleans all this up but loses color and overall has a blander appearance. There is still EE and some noise here and there, so I think they just reprocessed the SE master with a higher bitrate. The BD actually goes a long way to fix this and has the SE color back but more properly rendered, thus making it third time right IMO. It is STILL the UE though, so don’t expect perfection. It is by no means as good as a 1999 Panavision release should be on Blu-ray.
To me the SE is probably derived from the LD workflow, as it has all the hallmarks of being mastered for that format then ported to DVD.

AQ: The 5.1 appears the same on all three. Again like TND the track appears slightly louder on the UE in both Dolby and DTS variants. The BD allows for finer presentation from the lossless codec. Without a rear center speaker I can’t really tell if much of the EX encoding comes into play, but once a track is mixed for it, it should also decode out on newer releases that don’t indicate the sound is EX encoded. I thought I noticed some effects come through the rear area, like a EX mix would and like how I remember the theatrical release being. This and TPM really interested me for having sounds come directly from behind so I vividly remember those experiences. But it wasn’t that many on TWINE IIRC unlike TPM.

Thus, for the first time it appears we can say BD on all fronts. That said I do like the color saturation on the SE, and after my GE/TND discovery of the LD being better than the SEs…really want that darned Japanese LD…and for the 2.0 PCM…why in the world is it $500?

I too have thought about it. Like the Grinch special, the BD/modern transfer seems a bit lifeless and the audio isn’t very good. The old DVD is a LD port but I haven’t gotten a copy yet. The LD is rarer but the PCM mono should be best overall. (I’ve watched my Grinch LD every year since getting it. Clear, pure mono with the colors the way I grew up seeing them.)
Of course no release is uncut with all the old sponsor logos in place.

My copy is still the old original VHS release which was the first ever home video issue.

TND

LD WS vs SE vs UE vs BD

PQ: Again like GE, the LD is overall more pleasing ot the eye than the early DVD counterpart. While the DVD is overall sharper and lacks the NTSC inherent problems of the LD format, the LD I think provides the better image again, and here you find yourself marveling at how much they packed onto a LD. This is even with all the wizard circuitry inside my XBR960 having its way. The LD also has the opening caption that is player generated in the SE.
The UE fixes any color and flashtone issues I had with the slightly contrasty at times SE, and beats the LD in every department as well. The filmic look becomes more pronounced here, with no appearance of video or DVD nasties like EE. Compression is also far better but not perfect.
The BD is another leap forward, though obviously the UE master in 1080p. Bitrate more than 6 times the UE means everything is greater.
Winner: BD, but the LD is SHOCKINGLY good.

AQ: Two mixes only from what I can tell, the 5.1 and the 2.0 mixdown for LD. All the 5.1 tracks appear the same, LD and SE seem identical but I might nod to the LD. This may be due to better decoding in my separate ac3 rf-demodulators than onboard stuff. Both are 384 kbp/s. The UE has a 384 kbp/s DD and 755 kbp/s DTS track. They also appear the same but that the level of loudness may have been raised. Both tracks seem louder and are louder than the foreign dubs on disc. The DTS is the usual several dbs louder.
The BD DTS-hdma 5.1 is the same mix but it seems to lack the loudness I felt in the UE mixes. So in summation any version is good, but the nod goes to the BD.
The 2.0 is very nice and more fitting with the older films. Very robust with a nice low end. It lacks the discrete pans sometimes and the extreme aggressive high end of the 5.1 mix but it is a very nice alternate and should be preserved I think.
The isolated score track is at a slightly higher bitrate on the BD too.
Verdict: BD and LD

Overall, BD wins. The LD is gorgeous, The UE is great, and the SE is problematic but serviceable.

Got TND finally, so I hope to get the comparison done soon. I did get to check the opening and found the printed titles/subs ARE present, unlike the early DVD.

On BF weekend I also found VHS letterboxed copies of DN and FRWL so the madness continues.

I’m trying to figure out where to go honestly. Never mind getting tickets, but really the best presentation possible in a land of truly bad theaters all around.
Thinking of trying the old Regal where I saw TPM opening week, one where they built it as a flagship and still have the old big auditoriums, and paying the higher price or maybe going for the “premium” RPX screen since the closest Dolby Atmos theater I can find is hours away.
And the 7 movie marathons apparently run $30, start at 4am and only present TFA in 3D. Gross.

Thoughts? How will you guys be seeing TFA?

TPM theatrical. I just relaized my old DVDs of II and III disappeared somewhere, so for those i have no idea.

Mainly the Puggo Grande and PSB and hopefully ROTP if it gets finished before. Otherwise the US SWE CLV ports of the JSC for ESB/ROTJ, and either the JSC or the Technidisc for the original.

This got really involved, but I think I finally have it.
Note: using the xbr960 is a major challenge, as practically each separate input and format must be re-calibrated from scratch. It also makes even really bad BD transfers shine and SD has all it’s anamolies magnified.

GOLDENEYE
THX LD v SE DVD v UE DVD v Blu-ray v 1080p hdtv capture Lowry master

Video: The BD is indeed an older master, indeed riddled with noise reduction. The Lowry processed transfer is cropped, but it has an intact patina of grain throughout that can be seen in a few select frames/moments of the BD such as fadeouts. The grain is even visible on the UE DVD. However, Lowry introduced some color elements that i don’t think are quite right and I swear there’s perhaps a bit of teal here and there but it may be my eyes tricking me. After going over the same test scenes over and over again between all formats it breaks down like this:
hdtv: Best detail, but loses points to the heavy compression. Noticeably cropped on all four sides. Identical to UE. Color probably not 100% accurate.
BD: No compression issues. DNR and EE present but on a good display it’s still watchable and has better color timing.
For some time I thought the BD was the SE master, but when comparing kept seeing differences. Then it suddenly dawned on me. The SE is contrast boosted and a bit washed of fine detail because they merely ported the LD master for the extremely early snapper case disc. Comparing side by side shows the LD does NOT have the contrast issue and when held up against both my CLD-D702 and DVL-700 (the latter of which has inherent DVNR processing) shows that the DVD image is somewhere in the middle. So despite having the noise and NTSC issues of video, on a good player (with separate comb filtering optional) I actually think the LD is PREFERABLE to the SE. Thus I was able to tell more accurately that the BD is INDEED the SE master after all.

Thus the BD is the best compromise for new fans and BD lovers, because you get the original look of the old transfers without the analog headaches of NTSC formatting. It also has the correct contrast/color balance of the LD unlike the SE DVD. Unfortunately there is the issue of it being far older in transfer date so you have to live with the DNR but at least the full composition is restored.

Until we see evidence of the new 4K master, the result is a draw between the BD and Lowry, with each having their own deficiencies. The LD is one of the best ever produced IMO.

Audio: There are three distinct mixes. DD 5.1 ac-3 on the LD and SE with the heavier hot mastered LFE channel, the 2.0 matrixed PCM downmix, and a remixed cleaned up 5.1 track found on all subsequent copies in DD 5.1 384 kbp/s, DTS @ 755, and DTS-HDMA on the BD.
The audio overall is quite good on all three. The remix merely cleaned things up and did not change anything from what I can tell. The highs come across a touch cleaner and clarity is better but at the cost of a slight bit of the old track’s impact. It was claimed the LFE was mastered about 10 db too high for LD and DVD-corrected only on the DTS LD. I’ve considered if that was the source of the new audio, but without the DTS LD I can’t know for sure. I don’t think it is however, as they did correct the inherent distortion in the title song-which is on all singe/soundtrack releases I know of and the older mixes. The hotter LFE isn’t bad at all, just be ready for it. The PCM 2.0 downmix is quite exceptional for downmixing and at times sounds near identical to the 5.1 counterpart-excepting that is the mono matrix surround instead of the discrete stereo surround. It does sound a tad more like the older films this way though.

The BD presents in 24/48 to boot.

Slight nod to the hot LFE old 5.1 and 2.0. Otherwise a draw.

So there you have it. When I get to try out the theatrical DTS, I’ll certainly add that in too.

I think I may have just watched the entire opening about 60 times. 😉

Booted up my desktop today to be confronted with a no connection red x and that the network cable was unplugged. The troubleshooter told me to plug in my Ethernet cord which was already there. I’ve tried everything and the settings, cable and router are all fine. Wifi works for everything else and so does my cable on other devices. I’ve tried new Realtek drivers, system restore and nothing has worked. No lights ever appear on the port either.

I’m thinking it may have gone out. Does anybody know about making sure these things are dead?

Card is Realtek pci-e fe family controller.

An audio comparison would be nice Endian. The original mix should have been in 5.1 with a 2.0 matrix alternate for a 1994 film. The Atmos track is really just a 7.1 core remix that has added or spread around height channels.

I’m thinking about just waiting for the reviews on the upcoming 4kuhd disc of Leon. It should be identical but with of course massive resolution upgrades.

I’ve too been wondering about he new Cinema series disc. The image looks far better but not perfect. However they up mixed to 7.1 Atmos for no reason. I didn’t know about the 5.1 already been suspect for AQ, but the old Blu has hires 24/96 audio that is better quality than the new track.

It has also been announced for 4kuhd disc by Sony so expect another soon.

SilverWook said:

Too bad TWINE only came out on LD in Japan, and it’s bloody expensive when a copy does turn up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-World-is-not-Enough-LD-LaserDisc-Japan-/181901591075

You said it! I’ve lusted after that since getting into LD years ago. It’s my grail though I know the video will be merely the SE master. The big thing is the audio. The 5.1 may be the theatrical EX on the SE but the LD may be more dynamic. It also has the exclusive Dolby 2.0 matrix PCM mixdown.
I’ve wondered if someone who has one might loan me it to check the audio if I can ever make a capturing setup or at least be able to check against the SE.

From what I understand 6.1 mixes will still decode in 5.1 configurations if you use EX, ES or Neo: 6. Once I get a better receiver and an extra speaker I hope to try that out.

Before I do the Brosnan era, I’m hoping to check against the theatrical DTS audio from JetrellFo and for my TND LD to arrive.
Does anybody have or could anyone point me towards the 1080p Goldeneye hdtv capture? I have the 720p one but to view on the xbr960 I have to somehow convert it to be playable on PS3.