captainsolo

I’m just getting into ds9 for the first time and coming to the s1 dvd from the TNG Blu-ray remaster is a big jump. After digging around it seems the reason there’s aliasing and rainbowing confined to the effects shots is that they didn’t apply good comb filtration to the effects which is why the interiors look fine. They apparently used the source broadcast edited tape and thus the series is stuck that way unless a full reconstruction is done.

There is some discussion on LD groups that the LDs handle this better and this have a better looking picture depending on hardware but of course the series wasn’t completed on the format and only had later seasons done in Japan. But they do have pcm Dolby surround…I want too many LDs…

I’ve traveled down this research path for a little while now and as far as I can tell it essentially boils down to this:

The original video masters existed in a variety of masters tweaked and untweaked starting with the initial VHS and LD releases here in the US from 16mm sources. In Japan they got the big Log boxsets that added PCM mono but appear to be ports of the same USA LD masters otherwise and they all have apparently Season 3 opening credits. Some claim the Japanese LDs have spiffed up transfers and other say the opposite. In my experience most Japanese LDs do port US picture masters.

For the first DVDs of the two episodes per disc they went back to the existing masters and brought them into the digital realm-and also upmixed the original mono to 5.1. They also have 2.0 tracks but sadly these are not mono but Dolby surround versions of the 5.1 upmix. I thought I would have to track these down for a mostly untouched TOS but apparently the main plastic shell 2004 DVD set reused these disc masters with better bitrate and encoding-representing the final release of the 16mm sourced video editions that closely resembled the original broadcast appearance-albeit without the original mono.

When the remastered versions arrived on DVD and then HDDVD they lacked original audio and effects but were the first time we saw what the new scans and cleanups looked like. Finally the BDs arrived and added the original effects plus lossy mono but more clearly showed these were indeed 2006 era transfers riddled with DNR. That said they look very good and more like film-but they do look different to the earlier appearance and how the broadcast would have looked. The audio remix appears to have been done again with new effects and nowt like the original 5.1 on first dvds which merely spread around the mono.

The monos seem for the most part intact but you do notice some new effects here and there and some episodes have the new theme rerecording downmixed in mono for some reason. It is the first time since the final VHS run any form of mono is on a TOS release but infuriating they couldn’t just give us proper lossless mono and no DNR to make a definitive TOS BD release.
They really need to do it again and finally do it right.

I’ve often thought about getting the Japanese LD boxes but they are very expensive and I don’t know if the mono quality is worthwhile enough to justify the purchase. One could get the entire run on VHS on the 1994 blue spine ediiton for hifi mono but still the japanese pcm would be best overall. Has anyone been able to make a definitive list of all Blu-ray mono differences?

Yoda Stories on GBC was both infuriating and terrible-yet it helped to pass the time on long car rides.

I think the best new SW game in years is the modern 2017 Stern pinball machine that comes in a variety of editions. If you get the chance to play it-it is so loaded with modes and missions to select that you feel it needs a long manual to explain-yet is still a blast to play.

doubleofive said:

captainsolo said:

That’s why I still don’t have all three JSC or Faces lds. The price gouging is nuts on all SW. Just recently I realized there was a fancier version of the 97SE letterbox vhs set with some nice swag. I thought hmm I wonder what those go for. $75+ nope.

The swag is so good though. I now have two of the medals that come with the sets, and I took the staples out of the “Art of the Special Edition” booklet (which is the exact content as the appendices of the “Art of” books) last night and got good scans of every page.

And I got 5 frames of Jabba’s ass, which is perfect.

Don’t remind me…I really want one of these boxes now.

Haha “now with 5 collectible Jabba ass frames!”

Sooooo many to choose from. Usually you have to choose between the spoofs, the knockoffs, the serious spy dramas and all the foreign films.

At the top of the heap you have the Harry Palmer films which are three serious spy dramas that have completely different styles form the other. The Ipcress File is a masterpiece and the best serious spy film of all IMO.
The two Flint films are loads of fun and essentially a witty take on the 60’s spy craze.
The 1967 Casino Royale spoof is a madcap, wtf insane production that has an overloading embarrassment of riches and you can’t take all of it in in only one viewing.

We did a spy knockoff and spoof themed episode of the Laserdisc wolfpack podcast a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9XSc7KrBpE&list=PL1x8jwqGXR0j_x_6Ey1pxBF2sMT9T7eQw&index=23

It’s really frustrating the UHD releases will have no original audio and only new Atmos remixes. Hopefully the new transfers for Temple and crusade are good and Raiders isn’t the revisionist infuriating Blu-ray version…but I’m not hopeful…

For me Raiders and Temple are masterworks, Crusade has great moments but is the tired rehashing ROTJ style “let’s finish this” of the three-and Skull never happened. KOTCS was a nightmare and makes everyone’s Prequel complaints look like nothing.

Most of the novels are excellent and loads of fun-but never get brought up outside of diehard Indy fandom. I finally completed the set and plan to do a rereading of the series this year.

I think about trying to rank my favorites of his sometimes and roughly would go:

1. Raiders
2. Temple
3. Jaws
4. Duel
5. Crusade-though it is a weaker film it’s still Indy and I adore Indy.
6. CEOT3K-1977 theatrical version
7. Sugarland Express
8. Empire of the Sun

I think all of these are great films. I also like 1941 despite its issues. Everything else is debatable but I really have no use for the films he’s done in the past few decades. Minority Report, Munich and AI were nice surprises among the forgettable to terrible others.

JK on PC was the game that made me realize the potential of SW in gaming. It’s still outstanding and then came Jedi Outcast which blew everyone’s minds and is still unequaled in lightsaber/force combat. Jedi Academy had many great extra features and abilities but didn’t feel as impressive as Outcast overall. It’s a shame the series was left dormant.

I really should read the Katarn stories and novels.

I always read them back to back in my trusty old Trilogy paperback so I have a hard time separating them out in my mind. Each adds wonderful background details and interesting tidbits that I couldn’t be without.

Huh? I thought Insider was stopped years ago. Wow. I still occasionally buy old used issues in comic shops and would love to get the run through the early 2000’s. I was subscribed in 1998-1999 as a kid and it was great until I couldn’t convince my parents to continue it of course…

The standard single cab version is the one I played a few times-it sits at an extreme angle so the screen is tilted forward and you’re sort of looking upwards at it which gives a great immersion feel.

Unfortunately the game itself is like an extremely watered down on rails version of Trilogy Arcade mixed with Rogue Squadron that for players of either results in no real challenge.

The challenge for me is still finding non destroyed or messed up Trilogy Arcade cabinets. But I play even messed up ones because now it’s so darn elusive and getting a high score run with messed up screen, joystick, buttons or crosshairs can be a mega challenge.

Rogue Leader was better in every way but I think the original just had more level variety. All three are astonishing for graphics and performance on their respective consoles.

I did finally get a N64 Battle for Naboo cart so I’ll have to finally give it a go.

Mono. Hands down no contest.
The irony is that everyone thought of Star Wars for the Dolby Stereo or the 70mm baby boom bass enhancement-but no officials ever thought that theaters would seriously implement Dolby systems across the board. The mono mix was done last and was intended as the keeper track for general wide release and was thus heard on most prints throughout the country for the rest of the long run.
You do find yourself missing some of the stereo mix identifiers and the stereo separation, the mono rear surround and more technically advanced experience…but then are confronted by what I think may be the pinnacle of single channel film mixing. I even think the score is better mixed in the mono in terms of levels and balance and of course it immediately makes a direct connection to adventure films and serials of old which were also mono.
Jaws had already shown an amazing mono mix for 1975 and then along comes SW which goes far beyond that-but of course now this mix is lost to time in the general populace and its fixes were implemented into the 1997SE mix which was then bastardized and ruined in 2004, 2011 and 2019.

The monos for ESB and ROTJ were more intended for 16mm and other editions but the mono ESB is another custom mix with differences stemming form the 70mm mix in places and some things turned up in the 1997 SE mix again. ROTJ is more of a folddown from the Dolby Stereo.

This carried over into Indy where Raiders also has a custom mono with line differences, Temple has a mono presumably designed for 16mm and I think was the last custom designed LFL produced mono track.

I joined this forum way back when looking for more info on the 97SE in tech terms and getting into the OOT.
Now I see 005 has talked to a senior tech director from the 97SE project for firsthand info. We have certainly come a long way!
Thank you for continuing to update this 005!!

That’s why I still don’t have all three JSC or Faces lds. The price gouging is nuts on all SW. Just recently I realized there was a fancier version of the 97SE letterbox vhs set with some nice swag. I thought hmm I wonder what those go for. $75+ nope.

I feel I’m lucky enough on LD to have the SWEs, Technidisc ANH, non rotted complete definitive collection, JSC ANH and faces ROTJ on LD. TPM Japan also goes for a bit but I was patient and finally got one without obi for cheap. I still would like to get the other two JSCs someday.

I used to tell people to just get the SWE trilogy and that will work best overall for $15-25. Now I tell them just get the SWE as cheap as you can find them. Even the letterbox vhs iteration of these goes for more because of the vhs market explosion.

Rogue Squadron was and is a joy. I’ve always been more of an arcade nerd and was never very good at full flight sims so the original N64 title became a favorite since it was the game that came with my system. I still think it’s the best of the three overall though Rogue Leader was a huge leap forward. Rebel Strike tries to do new things but the implementation didn’t really work. I rented Battle for Naboo once years ago but have never played it 100%.
I had NO idea there was anything about a fifth Factor5 game!!!

This was a brilliant campaign that no one has ever really replicated. Most only remember or know the game these days which to me has always been a frustrating experience. The Perry novel is the heart and a good starter book for new to EU fans though some parts always felt a bit off.
I loved the purple blast art on the toys and that they made special figures. I had the disguised Chewie at one point and my Slave I was the SOTE box though that got thrown away years ago…
I still haven’t read the comic version or bought the soundtrack CD so I really should do that.

I’ve been trying to keep a decent upload schedule of different things in addition to doing some podcast episodes with the Laserdisc Wolfpack. Since my Batman commentaries went well I started doing the original Bond films and just recently posted my track for Octopussy if you’re interested: https://youtu.be/UN9NK-3mPPY

I’ve always thought they changed the recording setup and technique as everything became more advanced and of course they had a significantly higher budget and more time. Personally I’ve always liked the tinnier sounding '77 Vader just as I prefer him more mysterious and not the typical Vader people think of. I LOVE how they made Brock Peters sound in the radio drama and there are many days where I even want to say out loud I prefer that version…

There are many reasons why I always tell people the 97SE mix was the last time SW ever sounded good and this is yet another reason. In 1997 they added some new effects for the new stuff but largely just brought the original 4 track design into the 5.1 environment, added mono mix fixes and tweaks to try and make a fantastic 5.1 experience that stayed relatively faithful to the original track design of all three films. Then in 2004 they took this work and pissed all over it by inducing many changes, EQ tweaks, new changes on top of old ones, voiceover dubs, flopped surround channels on ANH, messing with the music levels and adding an unnecessary EX phantom rear center. Then these got bumped up to 6.1 for the 2011 BDs with some issues fixed but even more awful new changes added.

You can put on D+, BD or 2004 abominable DVDs and then play the 97SE LD ac3 and just watch people’s minds get blown. Sure the 97SE 5.1 isn’t always fully historically accurate but they did an amazing job for the time and it’s got some really intense LFE usage which must give an idea of the 1977 70mm baby boom experience people had.

I think it likely made more sense in whatever the original context was long before the Prequels were a blip on anyone’s radar. Shaw’s performance is the key and he’s excellent in the little time he has onscreen. I’ve never considered his age before but he seems perfectly fine as a contemporary of Obi-Wan.

When the first efforts here made drastic improvements to the GOUT way back then I knew that major releases could and definitely did have issues and it helped me go down the rabbit hole of studying film transfer histories.

If you really want the GOUT discs it’s a bit of a challenge now. Most places or listings have them around $60-100 or more as so many people are unfortunately convinced they are the only “original versions”. I’ve worn myself out explaining them still and their lineage. Sadly the costs of LD and VHS editions are still sky high for usually the same reason regardless of edition.

The DC or Faces LDs destroy the GOUT in terms of PCM vs DD 2.0. Heck I’d go even further and say the VHS hifi has more of a punch and I’m a geek that has both pan n scan and letterbox boxsets of the VHS Faces.

The original EU became the heart of the series for me over time growing up. I got burned out post ROTS and rediscovered my SW fandom when I discovered likeminded fans here on OT and then realized there was a far longer back history to unearth.

I started trials of some of those programs but DVD ae just locks up.

This may be a simple enough question but I’m trying to extract audio tracks from BDs via BD drive and my usual method won’t work. I like to rip commentary tracks to listen to on the go and use DVD audio extractor for DVDs. It will work for blu-rays but will not work on any discs with BD+ encoding which most have.

Is there an easy solution to do this? I’m not looking to do anything else but simply extract the commentaries to add to my folder of DVD ones I regularly listen to.

The trouble is that there are no official high quality sources for the theatrical mixes for us to experience. Everything is a recreation, conversion, optical capture or early LD release and is the best we can manage.

If you could playback a direct version of the original 4 track master nothing would surpass it. This is the source sound negative mix that the 70mm and stereo would have been made from. Going to the printmasters for each would be the best option for the specific mixes if the actual source was unavailable. It has been alluded to that LFL has every mix perfectly archived and is how so many mono mix elements made it into the 97SE mix.

The 93 mix was an attempt to beef up the tracks for home audio but it must always be understood that they were made with the home cinema format limitations of 1993 in mind.