I’d like to see this some day but all copies are out of print and the Laserdisc is rot city.
I’m scrubbing through the 1080p version very slowly to take it all in. I don’t have a good pro reference monitor or anything but I do have my trusty OT.com credentials. Hopefully I can get a BD burner soon so I can do some deep analysis of HH’s brand new 70mm creation since I’m such a huge fan of matrixing formats.
But so far…wow…wowie…wow…wow…this makes the Tech samples I’ve seen and anything else look puny in comparison. There’s elements of the various video transfers we all have come to know and love and then there’s elements that seem completely different. One moment I 'm reminded of the JSC, one the 97 SE, the next the GOUT/Definitive, the next the SSE and/or non-Tech prints and the next the Technidisc and so on and so on…
And as for grain in spite of the time consuming and nice looking method being used for the DNR version (and DNR in itself is not a bad thing-it is used on a daily basis) put me down in the camp of it being unnecessary for this. I’m a tried and true 100% grain fan; I can’t get enough and what is on here naturally looks beautiful to my eyes even with this being in its raw form.
And that it’s already GOUT ready with lossless 77 stereo and mono…oh geez with the mono as loud as it will go…I’m already too darn emotional.
Okay Hands up, who here got teary eyed seeing the original LFL logo look this amazing? (Ironically I’m somebody who first experienced SW with the 97SE.)
The amount of time, research and proper equipment chains is absolutely staggering and spot on. Personally I’ve been after a 5300 for years ever since Disclord raved about them on the lddb forums as the best matrix decoder he had ever heard. A lot of what you’ve stated makes perfect sense with what he stated and the various forums and manuals I’ve read over the years. I had no idea 4K77 had a brand new edition and now this makes it a must to play on my system since I play matrix LD tracks almost daily.
I’d be very interested to know your thoughts on PLIIx hairyhen and how you think it does with not only providing the correct channel separation but also how well it works with mono surround tracks by using all four surrounds in a 7.1 system. At first I felt it was weird but then I realized that when speakers are properly separated IIx does a great job at preserving the correct feel. Of course it does have some instances of dialogue/effect bleeding at times and has occasionally stereoized/panned the rear a bit on a few tracks but since I thought I’d never get a chance to use a 5300 that it was as good as I could do. The movie mode is supposed to be an even more accurate formulation than regular PLII and far more than the theatrical version which pretty much stopped with SR. Thus I would suggest that movie mode is a better choice if you have to upmix but for this track it should be unnecessary since all the hard work has already been done. Music mode, while it doesn’t seem to pan rears, is more of a gimmicky format designed to wrap two channel music around the listener and not at all accurate like movie mode.
Also I’m glad to see you worked out the digital to analog and back issue. I’ve often wondered about how using one of these older units in my system would work since I always stay in the source format which in this case would be digital and all units are analog only.
So far what interests me most is the ability you had on this new version to more fully separate anything from being lost in the channels by being diverted into the LFE AND prevent centering. IMO this is arguably the biggest issue you can run into with matrix tracks on any decoding unit as there is the tendency to sum everything towards and through the center and send far too much information the the subwoofer which then loses details. For example, in any Jabba dialogue in ROTJ his voice and especially laughs boom right down into your sub and immediately you lose ambiance and even effects detailing etc.
Ultimately in short this should be INCREDIBLE…
I sooooooooooooooooo need a 5300! In fact I think I saw that same ebay listing and was put off by the local pickup only. 😉
EDIT: HH, have you ever thought about or tried running through an actual Dolby cinema processor? That would be the only other thing I can think of to try and should provide an interesting result if you could ever figure out how to get a recording run through one.
I remember this opening and playing in virtually all the major screens of the major new Regal flagship theater where I saw so many great openings on their super huge main rear auditoriums. While I can’t remember very much technically since I was only 9 at the time I do remember camping out for tickets and finally managing to get seats for the second day of release and then being blown away by both the quality of the experience and by hearing my first dose of EX with the rear center sound information.
Sadly I saw TFA in that same hall that was turned into an RPX and it was literally as if the original presentation quality never existed.
In short I’m so looking forward to this as there is literally no decent home release (the LD has some definite issues) and the theatrical presentation was so stellar. Heck come to think of it even AOTC had a good presentation and it should have looked like complete garbage due to being such an early digital production. That may be why I saw it at least five times theatrically. Or because I was obsessed with the seismic charge sound effects…😉
I’m going to see it at some point but will readily admit I don’t expect much and am terrified they will rip off elements of the Daley novels which are my absolute favorite SW stories.
WSS had a full modern digital restoration of the original mix that has never been released. You can read great technical articles online about the restoration. So far as I know the LD audio tracks are either matrixed only or based on the original mix.
Essentially when dealing with PD titles it is the new restoration or version that can be copyrighted but anyone else is free to make their own release or version from the non-restored still PD materials or whatever they get a hold of. However if so inclined and it is within a certain time frame there are instances of original holders or studios re-obtaining rights to items that were PD for some time-such as Republic re-aquiring It’s a Wonderful Life before Paramount took it over.
This will complete my favorite trilogy and the one that means most to me. The more time necessary the better it will eventually be.
From the Empire Strikes Back novelization:
And to add to his misery, a high-pitched whistle blared into the cubicle, tormenting his keen sense of hearing.
It’s a bit like playing captainsolo a low-bitrate MP3.
Argh! You obviously know me too well…I get bugged horribly by all the lack of fidelity from over loud commercials to bad broadcast audio-but especially the poor recording of many youtube uploads.
FLAC was a godsend when I first discovered it. And even though it’s inaudible and unecessary in my car-I still use FLAC and made sure to get a higher end head unit.
I’d say this essentially confirms that the video sourced HD masters are likely from IPs that weren’t going to match the release prints anyway then compounded by pitiful lackluster regrading by Lowry.
Also of note is that the LD release seems to have more color in the opening but then calms down later. The closest to the HD Master is actually the old pan and scan release oddly.
It also goes for every film we discuss and try to bring back to its former glory whether it be the unavailability of original audio or revisionism by someone preparing the video master which then becomes the defacto standard.
TCM did originally run the non-tampered with version. It was how I first saw the film as a child and I remember vividly having to stay up secretly to watch the absurd late night/early morning on a school night timeslot. I’m pretty sure today that it would have been the LD video master as they used video masters from that era-progressing to DVD era masters until the moment recently when they started airing a few HD masters on their HD broadcasts.
For a few years I watched the fan transfer of the LD that was made. I think its still around someplace. Eventually once I went LD mad I got my own copy and they aren’t that expensive. For LD it’s a decent but not great transfer much like most Warner discs of that time period.
WAC would be the people to do it, but I doubt if anyone would go against GL’s wishes and I’m sure there are rights complications in today’s world-not to mention that perhaps some ownership on the film changed during the 2004 Director’s Cut.
EDIT-the old LD capture is spleened still.
An entire legion of my best mouse droppings await you!!
Again, to those who liked it good for you. That’s fine. I’m not trying to discredit anyone or their likes/dislikes. This is at least one place I feel I can be honest about SW topics.
TLJ killed me. Just gutted me.
But to me this is painfully obvious:
Disney Wars has nothing to do with Star Wars. It has no heart, no soul and no reason for being other than as a property to make money. They do not work as proper standalone features and they certainly have no regard for the property they claim to be a part of.
The more I think about what I saw is to realize how it essentially gives the middle finger to the universe of SW-to a degree that makes what TFA did look like nothing.
Not even the worst of the EU so blatantly disregarded the way the universe of the story worked. To me The Phantom Menace is Shakespearean in comparison. There. Yes, I really said it.
Did anyone else feel as badly as I did?
Ah! What a beautiful new directive!!!
You’re right it’s definitely not color graded but already the detail is wonderful and the black levels are great!!
It’s post-PT, but I always have to give Matthew Stover’s Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor a strong recommendation. Fantastic book set shortly after ROTJ (and Truce at Bakura). There are some prequelisms (clones mainly), but damn if Stover doesn’t just get the OT characters, and for such a fun book it gets surprisingly dark at times.
Really hope Stover eventually writes a canon book.
Absolutely. I love Shatterpoint especially which is the best movie Samuel L. Jackson never made, and somehow makes Apocalypse Now meets SW actually work-particularly since it goes ultra dark.
I got dragged in by my sister who is a causal fan.
I had no desire to see more Disney Wars but figured at least it would be passable. I was going in with an open mind.
Geez…what the heck was that? Magical mind melding? Galaxy wide physical projection? The anti-Luke? Blatant repeating of entire sections of ESB and ROTJ?
Throw everything you knew or loved out the window. This is pure gobbledygook that has no connotation to the OT and makes even the silliest of the EU look coherent. There is absolutely no narrative drive other than somebody saying there’s supposed to be stars and a war. Here’s stormtroopers and rebels.
Just…what the…I don’t even know where to begin.
It seems like they have done exactly what they wanted and written off everything that came before in order to make a soulless franchise heavy hitter in their Marvel mold for those audiences who were not SW fans to begin with. It seems the casual fans and the non fans like the sequel trilogy just fine but what I can’t understand is why exactly because TLJ is a mess as a picture let alone that it isn’t Star Wars in any way shape or form.
But what hurts most is that they’ve literally obliterated the heart of the original material. I really want to see George’s outline. Because the prequels were only harmed by having no one around to tell him no and go back to the drawing board-as a story and narrative they at least made sense. In Disney Wars there is no connection to anything Star Wars beyond the set dressing. Not a thing.
Also for those interested who aren’t aware, La La Land records has just released the complete and remastered score for DAD and is limited to 5000. EON has confirmed they are watching the release and if it is successful LLL will do more score releases.
I can’t remember if I posted about this before but I believe the alternate print source used on the Criterion FRWL is the same as the one on the last Pan n Scan MGM disc. It has the same damage marks and looks very similar with the only difference being that it’s an older disc in CLV. The Connery Collection disc is either a new transfer of the same element cleaned up or with new elements mixed in.
I’m pretty positive that we can definitely say now that all three Criterions are print sourced due to all of them having cue marks, differing color to other releases and optical noise. On many occasions Criterion used fine grains or earlier generation show prints so this would fit.
And of course with their DN being the closest match to the IB…that’ll be the clincher.
I wonder if all three are sleeper IB transfers like Criterion’s Wizard of Oz. They might very well be as I don’t think they had made archive prints on safety yet as MGM simply used and reused the same elements until starting the first video restorations in 1995.
And in other news a guy on the LD forever group found TWINE for two bucks…and plans to sell it for crazy money…argh!
Also after rereading through the thread I noticed the bit about LATT’s stereo mix.
You have it listed as 3.0 and I think describing it as having directional dialogue originally which should be true as this was the norm until mono dialog started with Sensurround. However CinemaScope films had a four channel magnetic stereo track, not a three channel mix so having some slight surround for a CS release in the early period where they did a four track mix is entirely accurate.
I think with Pan hat the original CAV is closer to what a 50’s print would look like and the 1998 CAV reissue is closer to what the negative and untimed materials looked like at the time of scanning.
I think that in trying to correct the video flaws of the earlier transfers that they went overboard and also neglected to reflect the theatrical presentation as it was.
I now have a number of Disney titles and can’t wait to compare via crt firsthand.
Fantastic. Count me in as well. I’ve wanted to find the LD for years and watch my original issue vhs copy every year.
Also for those who love the soundtrack as much as I do the 200gram Kevin Gray mastered LP is still available and in some ways I think even better than the Analogue Productions 45rpm version. Definitely get the 200g before it’s gone as it will go sky high in price.
I think it helps to live with it for a long time and revisit it often. It’s really the one film that demands rewatches more than any other.
It also helps to read Dick’s wonderful original novel which is more of a parallel book like Clarke’s 2001 novel.
I just bought the US release and suddenly realized every video release is a stereo or surround mix. Was this ever released as stereo originally as I presumed it was a mono film.
My sister is both a Marvel and Waititi fan so she dragged me to Ragnarok.
It’s not a bad picture but just like all the others in this seemingly unending cycle seems to exist only to overwhelm audiences with mere glimmers of life amidst the same frameworks time and time again. And with each pass the framework becomes weaker and weaker.
Apparently they based this around the idea behind the Planet Hulk storyline but the real problem is that you essentially have two movies not glued together but simply chopped in tatters and forcibly attached. The film continually stops again and again for the sake of the other plot line, or a joke or simply for a trailer moment. It never truly is allowed to build up its own steam and achieve any significance that will allow it to last longer than five minutes in the head of anyone who sees it.
It also gave me an insanely passionate desire to watch Flash Gordon with my receiver set to maximum. At the very least that film knows and admits what it is. Ragnarok cannot and will not do this.
Ultimately Ragnarok is yet another time passer that seems to swallow whole the creative person they plucked to be in charge.
2 balls out of 4.
Hunt for the Wilderpeople is a much better film btw.
Blade Runner: DC Laserdisc
followed by Criterion IC
I’ve been watching BR again and again trying to forget 2049. I still sadly haven’t forgotten it. However I did notice that there are some mixing differences between the international and director’s cut! (Mainly dynamic range, EQ, and the ability to hear many more details in the DC mix.)
OT.com ball rating score: Mastery of Balls.
Saving Private Ryan
I’ve never been a big fan of this at all but figured it had been long enough and had recently found the rare LD version.
It’s really quite a dull picture outside of the battle sequences.
2 balls out of four.
The Fifth Element
I always forget how enjoyable this film is, remember when watching it, and am then reminded at just how unfulfilling the story and setting winds up becoming.
I’ve made my peace with this film and enjoy it for what it is-yet can’t help but feel as if it were short of greatness.
The Pioneer rot free LD pressing is a reference disc for the format with a good ac3 track.
3.5 balls out of 4.