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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
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18-Mar-2024
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Post
#887233
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

I wonder if that was one of the original props used in the OT?

Did anyone else notice Finn finding and tossing a training remote, (probably the same one Luke trained with) when he was rummaging through stuff aboard the Falcon?

I did, and I also thought it looked kind of weird, like toy or something.
It’s very Abramsy thing to do, kind of like the Tribble in the background of Star Trek 2009. Had the film been worse than it was then that moment would have really bugged me. It’s the kind of pointless nerdy reference that adds nothing to the plot other than nostalgia. Luckily those moments were acceptable in TFA (in my opinion) because there was also a proper SW story. In ST they just felt like an excuse for the fact that they had no idea how to make a proper ST story, it felt like a distraction, in TFA it felt like an Easter-egg.

I also seem to recall an interview some time back where Adam Savage claimed that the holochess (or whatever it’s actually called) that Finn activated by accident was actual stop-motion done by Phil Tippet.

EDIT: Here’s the interview; https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLCRHG7EIFlDqNKhYbtg5Pwt3E0G_kOpf4&v=tDSwqVZyNsc

Post
#887221
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

Post
#887216
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

hydrospanner said:
Not sure how I felt about the force having a lightsaber calling out to a specific individual, that is something we haven’t really seen before and I found it a bit distracting. It wasn’t that big of a deal when Luke lost it… he just built a new one and moved on. It seems that the saber’s importance and the entire story of how Maz came into possession of it will end up being a mystery we will never get an answer too. Although the movie does end with Rey presenting it to Luke so possibly some of those questions will be answered in the next film.

Well, at least we’re back to a more magical sense of what the Force is, rather than the pseudo-science of the PT. However, I don’t think the saber itself holds any power, but it’s an item that has been in contact with Luke, thereby having a connection to him. It’s kind of like the Dagobah-cave.sequence in ESB, it’s not really explained, but it does have that mysterious, magical feeling to it. So I personally really liked it (it was a bit modern in terms of execution and not quite as effective as the ESB scene in my opinion, but I really liked the concept.) Abrams is after all a fan who remembers SW from back in the 70’s so in his mind the Force might still have a strong connection to artifacts, which was fairly common in the early EU.

What I’m more curious about however, is how the hell the lightsaber ended up in Kanata’s possession in the first place. They kind of just brushed past it. Hopefully this will be explained later, or at least in some tie-in material.

Post
#887161
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

hydrospanner said:

Was anyone else disappointed by the film’s score? None of the music really grabbed me like it did in the previous films.

Disappointed, no. Underwhelmed, yes.
Then again music isn’t really my main focus the first time watching a film in the theatre, so I’ll have to wait until I’ve re-watched it to make a proper judgment of it.

Post
#887096
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

As long as TFA, and the next five films, help bury the PT into relative obscurity I don’t really care how mediocre they are. It may sound a bit cynical, but I do love the fact that in five years we’ll have nine SW films set in the Rebellion vs Empire era, and only three films set in the Old Republic era.

Anyway, here’s my first thoughts on the film from two days ago at the other thread;

"I just saw it and the worst I can say is that it didn’t blow me away, so at least that’s something. Then again, like most people here, I’ve been anticipating this for well over a year, so it’s hard to judge so shortly after. This is definitely a film I must re-watch soon.

It’s kind of funny really, you can almost tell who wrote what in this film. Whenever Han says something, you can tell it’s Kasdan. But whenever some reference or quote from the old appears, it’s uncomfortably similar to Abrams Star Trek reboots, fun and geeky at first, but when you stop to think of it you realize how gimmicky it is.
I feel like the first half of the film does really well at being original, and I personally really liked both Rey and Finn. However, when it comes to the Starkiller Base part, you kind of get this déjà vu feeling. Also I was kind of disappointing by all the CGI, but then again it was to be expected. I had just hoped that it would have been a bit more practical. However, having said that, what was practical was really great, it was just sadly overshadowed quite a bit. I’m curious about how the editing process was done, because Abrams have been bragging about these practical effects for so long, yet so much of it was pushed into the background.

(Oh, and SORT-OF-SPOILER, Snoke’s appearance kind of pissed me off at first, then it made me chuckle. At first it seems like he really was about 20-feet tall, but then it was revealed that he was only a hologram-projection.)

My view of TFA is for the moment closer to my expectations about a year ago, before I got caught up in all the hype;
it was good, not great, it was better than the PT, worse than the OT, it was flawed, but fun, it had a proper Star-Warsy in atmosphere, a few to many geek references, but there was enough new in it to redeem it. It was impossible for this film to live up to our expectations anyway, so it’ll obviously feel kind of disappointing at first, but I think most people here will warm up to it eventually. And on the more cynical side, at least we have a new Star Wars film to argue about."

I’d also like to add that the obvious ANH-type ending clearly has left such a bad taste with most of us as we left the theatre that many of us seem to have forgotten how clever and original the first half was (with a few exceptions here and there). I’m seeing this film again next week, and I’m going to pay extra attention to the first half that time, 'cause I really feel like that’s very TFA shines through all. And if Ep. VIII will be more like the first half of TFA, then I’m really looking forward to the next two films.

Post
#887025
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

adywan said:

emanswfan said:

Wait a minute I just realized. Where’s Constable Zuvio? I didn’t see him at all.

its a blink and you’ll miss it shot in the Force vision Rey has after grabbing the lightsaber. And it looks like he was getting killed by a lightsaber ( not sure if it was or not because the shot went by so fast)

So who killed Zuvio? He was supposed to be a policeman on Jakku, so I don’t see why he would have appeared in the Knights of Ren massacre that Rey witnessed. He was probably seen in the background in one of the Jakku scenes similarly to Bobbajo, whom I did notice in the scene where Rey contemplated selling BB-8 for food. Also there’s probably some deleted scene with him that we’ll hopefully get to see once the Blu-ray is released.

Post
#887023
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

emanswfan said:

Wait a minute I just realized. Where’s Constable Zuvio? I didn’t see him at all.

There was actually quite a lot that didn’t make the final cut of the movie.
I’m really starting to wonder what was in the 4 hour version that they talked about some time ago. I feel like there was a lot of cool stuff that we missed in the current edit. Although it’s very unlikely, I kind of wish they’d do what Peter Jackson did with LOTR and the Hobbit movies and release an extended version. Or at least we better get a crap-ton of deleted scenes when the Blu-ray comes out. I’m sure someone here is already planning a fan edit of some kind.

Post
#886873
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

ImperialFighter said:

Just wanted to remind everyone here that Jay has now added a dedidicated thread for everyone who has seen the movie to add their thoughts to. And I suggest no peeking in this new thread whatsover, until you see the movie for yourselves - originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Force-Awakens-Official-Review-Thread-SPOILERS/id/46786

I finally saw the movie for myself this afternoon here in the U.K., and look forward to adding some thoughts of my own eventually. 😃

So, how is it any different from this thread? This is also a TFA spoiler thread.

Post
#886779
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Smoking Lizard said:

I really don’t want to sound argumentative or terribly cynical, and I understand that so many fans really want to like this movie, but seriously, I have to say, at this point, knowing what we know how can anyone suggest this movie is good?

I wonder at times if everyone in society has collectively lost his mind.

This movie is clearly a cheap ripoff. A con. A money grab. A bait and switch.

  • The Empire was defeated in the original trilogy. No problem! We have a new, improved empire! Complete with an evil guy in black robes, scary mask, and red light saber!

  • How did the Republic allow the Empire 2.0 to come into existence? Who cares! It’s a movie! Please don’t answer, “How did the original empire come into existence?” Because the answer is simple – a corrupt politician seized the existing legal republican government, a la Adolf Hitler, that’s how. So did the new Republic make the same mistake? No, because the new Republic still exists in this new universe. So WTF? Oh well…who needs things to make sense?

Who says they won the entire war in ROTJ? They celebrated one military victory in a tree-house-village with a bunch of natives. ANH also had a huge celebration at the end (it was considerably bigger I might add), yet that didn’t mean that they won the war.
Even the EU never assumed that the war was won. Just because the Emperor died doesn’t mean you win the entire war.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • So the Empire 2.0 has stormtroopers, but they’re not clones…and they’re not conscripts or recruits. So the Empire 2.0 breeds them? From birth? So the Empire 2.0 has some vast wing of babies being birthed to become stormtroopers somewhere? How else do you explain that “Finn” does not have a name?

Well, to be nitpicky, Finn did say that he was taken away from his family at a very young age, so he wasn’t technically bred to be a Stormtrooper.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • Why is it that in a galaxy populated by trillions of people, we keep bumping into the same four or five over and over, no matter where we go? And the same goes for spaceships, too. How awfully convenient that the Millenium Falcon just happens to be on the desert planet that Rey is on? And how awfully convenient that Han Solo decides it’s a good idea to take back ownership of the Falcon at the age of, what, 70?

Again, to be nitpicky, if none of this, or anything similar had happened, we wouldn’t have had a movie. What you described is basically just Hollywood 101. Also, the OT was filled with moments like these. I mean what are the chances that R2 would end up with Luke in ANH. Out of the entire planet, he happened to land nearby, and conveniently get captured by Jawas that would end up re-uniting him with C3PO, that would then sell him to the force-sensitive son of the main villain, that was also tied in with the guy he was looking for in the first place. And what were the chances that that R5 droid would malfunction at just the right moment, thereby making the rest of the film, as well as the rest of the trilogy possible.
Also, the main villain was all of a sudden the main characters father, and once that was established they turned the love interest, now that she’d gotten ‘hitched’ to the other male protagonist, into conveniently being his long lost sister.
Star Wars, like most movies, are all about convenient plot twists. This is hardly anything new.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • So the Empire 2.0 has an even bigger, badder Death Star. It blows up stars! But it’s on a planet…so it cannot travel from place to place in the galaxy…so it shoots its laser or plasma or whatever blasts from light years away and the blast travels and travels and travels across the galaxy to hit its target? What does the laser blast make the jump to hyperspace itself to get to its target in due time?

  • I mean, really? The Death Star thing all over again? Really? And somehow the First Order/Empire 2.0 is capable of making a weapon even more powerful that the Death Stars, despite the fact that it’s not the ruling government of the entire galaxy?!

  • And really, like, say, 10 or 20 years before this movie is set there was NO ONE in the Republic saying, “Hey, guys! A bunch of copycats are restarting the Empire! They’re building star destroyers and TIE fighters and maybe a planet killing machine thing! We need to stop them!”?!

Although, I think most people more-or-less of agrees with you here (me included), it has after all been 30 years, and the second Death Star took less than two years to build. So if you can make a super weapon the size of a friggin’ moon in roughly two years, image what a bunch of fanatics can manage in three decades. Also, the film never established how powerful the First Order really is so we don’t know if they’re actually a remnant similarly to the EU, or still a large political Empire. For all we know the galaxy could be divided between these two large military forces. Until, we’ve seen ep. VIII and IX, we can’t really tell.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • And really, Rey thinks the Jedi and all that jazz is “legend.” Um, hello? That war was only 30 years ago! That would be like saying the events of 1985 are just perceived as “legends” today in 2015. Please. Yeah, WWII was just a legend. Right.

Technically it’s been half a century. Keep in mind that the Jedi haven’t really been a thing since the start of the Empire (19 BBY, e.g. prior to ANH). Also, it’s a big galaxy, and Rey is on a scavenger planet in the middle of nowhere. So 50 years earlier there were roughly thousand magical peacekeepers that mostly worked undercover and were only directly involved in politics and military campaigns. Even in the PT the Jedi were treated as somewhat mythological. Anakin didn’t question their existence, but he exaggerated their abilities when talking to Qui-Gon. By the time of ANH, no one really doubted that there was once lightsaber wielding religious warriors, but the Force had become a somewhat forgotten notion. Add another 30 years to that, and it’s really not that strange that someone would believe they were legends, or at least apocryphal. Rey also clearly knows all the names, events, and even certain details, she just perceived them as folk tales and exaggerations.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • SURPRISE! The bad guy is Han and Leia’s son! Wow! Never saw that coming! What a huge reveal!

  • Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Academy is wiped out, SO HE LEAVES?!? GOES INTO HIDING?! When there’s a perfectly safe Resistance planet he could have gone to to help out in the fight?! Don’t tell me Obi Wan went into hiding, because he didn’t. He took Luke to safety on Tatooine and then guarded over him because he knew that the only person who could possibly sway Darth Vader back to the light was Vader’s son.

His father turned to evil, he himself almost turned to the dark side, and during his first attempt at living up to the Jedi before him one of his students turned to evil and slaughter everyone. Although, I would’t consider going into hiding the best idea, it’s not necessarily inconsistent with his personality, or any human-being for that matter. I mean he’s got quite a large amount of heavy burdens to live with, and a lot of responsibility for a ex-farmer, turned war-hero, and wannabe-Jedi.

Smoking Lizard said:

  • Leia gets word that there’s a lead as to where her brother is…so she sends her best PILOT to collect the intel? Yeah, because when there’s important information to be collected in Iraq or Syria or Russia, President Obama sends his best F-16 pilot.

Again, that just movie-logic. I don’t think real-life politics is the best thing to draw inspiration from. Also, how about ANH, they’ve discovered and stolen the plans to a new super-weapon, and Bail Organa sends his teenage daughter to deliver them. Also, they decided to have Lando, some ex con-man they’ve only know for a few months, to lead the attack on the second Death Star. Surely someone more reliable like Wedge would make more sense?

Smoking Lizard said:

  • Han Solo: “Hey, Finn, I hear you have some really important information to get to Leia. I mean, we could just, you know, do one of those video chats that we do all the time, but, nah. We’ll go there in person. In the Millenium Falcon. BUT FIRST! We have to make a pitstop at a bar in a castle so you can meet my old Force sensitive mentor!” Finn: “But Han! In the first movie released in 1977, you told Obi Wan that you didn’t believe in the Force! That you had traveled from one end of the galaxy to the other and just concluded it was just ‘simple tricks and nonsense.’” Han: “Um…oh yeah.”

So Han knew this weird old lady that babbled on about magic all the time. Sure, that’ll convince him it’s real.
She may have know about it, but she wasn’t force sensitive. Then why does she talk about it so much? Well she’s a thousand years old, meaning that unlike everyone else she’s only been in a Jedi-free galaxy for a fraction of her life-time. And in a millennium you’d probably bump into a lot of interesting people. Some of them had to have been Jedi. Also, Han bragging about having been all over the galaxy, was the cocky bragging of a cynical, thirty-something smuggler.

Anyhow, I don’t blame you for being disappointed by this film. It rehashed a ridiculous amount of things, and it’s far from perfect. But I think you’re exaggerating by calling for a “public outrage.” It was a casual pop-culture sequel that added something new, and rehashed a lot of the old. And I think it’s far to early to make assumptions about a good deal of the films new/continued lore.

Post
#886667
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I have to say that I kind of envy those who have seen the 4 hour version, because I really felt like a lot of cool stuff had been cut out of the film as I was watching it. It was surprising to see a lot of material from the teasers and trailers not make it into the final cut of the film.
A lot of the moments that we’ve been scrutinizing here for the past year, just wasn’t in the film. The shot of Maz giving Anakin’s lightsaber to Leia was not in the film. The overall film actually kind of forgot about her entirely after the scenes on Tokadona. I get the impression that a lot of great scenes have been cut out in lieu of the big CGI blowing up Starkiller Base climax.
Although it seems unlikely, I’d love to see an extended cut (in the vein of the LOTR movies) one day.

The ending of this will will probably create the most conflicted feeling for most OT fans. Thinking about the movie the day after I saw, I’m now realizing how much my mind is lingering on the ending, and how much of the films strength lies in the first half. The first half is really were the film tries out something new, and focuses on the new characters. The moment Han and Chewie appear, we start getting the occasional Abrams-nerdy-reference. And when it comes to the big climax, you really do get a déjà vu feeling. However, cynicism surrounding the predictable climax shouldn’t get in the way of the fact that they did actually make up a lot of new stuff and characters for TFA. I really hope that these ideas and character will get to flourish in Ep. VIII & IX now that there’s no particular need for the same level of nostalgia to convince people to go watch it.

Post
#886455
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I just saw it and the worst I can say is that it didn’t blow me away, so at least that’s something. Then again, like most people here, I’ve been anticipating this for well over a year, so it’s hard to judge so shortly after. This is definitely a film I must re-watch soon.

It’s kind of funny really, you can almost tell who wrote what in this film. Whenever Han says something, you can tell it’s Kasdan. But whenever some reference or quote from the old appears, it’s uncomfortably similar to Abrams Star Trek reboots, fun and geeky at first, but when you stop to think of it you realize how gimmicky it is.
I feel like the first half of the film does really well at being original, and I personally really liked both Rey and Finn. However, when it comes to the Starkiller Base part, you kind of get this déjà vu feeling. Also I was kind of disappointing by all the CGI, but then again it was to be expected. I had just hoped that it would have been a bit more practical. However, having said that, what was practical was really great, it was just sadly overshadowed quite a bit. I’m curious about how the editing process was done, because Abrams have been bragging about these practical effects for so long, yet so much of it was pushed into the background.

(Oh, and SORT-OF-SPOILER, Snoke’s appearance kind of pissed me off at first, then it made me chuckle. At first it seems like he really was about 20-feet tall, but then it was revealed that he was only a hologram-projection.)

My view of TFA is for the moment closer to my expectations about a year ago, before I got caught up in all the hype;
it was good, not great, it was better than the PT, worse than the OT, it was flawed, but fun, it had a proper Star-Warsy in atmosphere, a few to many geek references, but there was enough new in it to redeem it. It was impossible for this film to live up to our expectations anyway, so it’ll obviously feel kind of disappointing at first, but I think most people here will warm up to it eventually. And on the more cynical side, at least we have a new Star Wars film to argue about.

Post
#885043
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I took this screen shot from the new Chinese trailer and I couldn’t help but notice that one of the Knights of Ren had a very Vader-like feature to his helmet, even more so than Kylo. The I took a look at the guy on the far right and his helmet kind of reminded me of Boba Fett. Am I just imagining it, or does his helmet have a visor shaped roughly the same way and Fett’s helmet in the OT?

EDIT: That thing that I compared to Boba Fett’s antennae thing, is actually on his back. Of course even that makes him look kinda like Fett, resembling his jetpack-rocket thingy.

Post
#884767
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

Some people might not see the movie for the first time until weeks later, painful as that sounds. They will simply have to tough it out.

Another TFA thread is only going to cause more clutter and confusion around here. Tweaking the title, as was done when the trailer dropped, should be enough.

Well, the thread is called “THE FORCE AWAKENS (EPISODE VII) DISCUSSION” so I’d be kinda weird if we couldn’t discuss The Force Awakens in the The Force Awakens discussion thread.
You could put some emphasis on it being a “spoiler thread” though, just in cast.

Post
#884688
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

towne32 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m pretty sure that someone here on the forum, that is those that aren’t from the US, will see TFA a day or two earlier than that countdown timer shows.
I definitively will, and I’m going into an internet “blackout” starting the 15th since that’s TFA’s earliest release date, and I don’t want any spoilers.

The clock is based on the U.S. release date. Sorry international fans.

The first new thing on the front page in six years ought to be cause for celebration around here. 😉

Oh, certainly, I was just being nitpicky.

towne32 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m pretty sure that someone here on the forum, that is those that aren’t from the US, will see TFA a day or two earlier than that countdown timer shows.
I definitively will, and I’m going into an internet “blackout” starting the 15th since that’s TFA’s earliest release date, and I don’t want any spoilers.

The world premiere is the 14th, so you might want to adjust your blackout.

Right, forgot about that one.
Although that’s mostly just the filmmakers, actors, guests (e.g. Lucas), etc, though isn’t it? Porbably not a larger risk of spoilers, but I’ll keep it in mind.

I think there are plenty of guests who know those involved or work elsewhere in hollywood. It only takes one person and one internet to spoil every single detail in the film.

Good point, I will extend my “blackout” the 14th as well then.

Post
#884682
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m pretty sure that someone here on the forum, that is those that aren’t from the US, will see TFA a day or two earlier than that countdown timer shows.
I definitively will, and I’m going into an internet “blackout” starting the 15th since that’s TFA’s earliest release date, and I don’t want any spoilers.

The clock is based on the U.S. release date. Sorry international fans.

The first new thing on the front page in six years ought to be cause for celebration around here. 😉

Oh, certainly, I was just being nitpicky.

towne32 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m pretty sure that someone here on the forum, that is those that aren’t from the US, will see TFA a day or two earlier than that countdown timer shows.
I definitively will, and I’m going into an internet “blackout” starting the 15th since that’s TFA’s earliest release date, and I don’t want any spoilers.

The world premiere is the 14th, so you might want to adjust your blackout.

Right, forgot about that one.
Although that’s mostly just the filmmakers, actors, guests (e.g. Lucas), etc, though isn’t it? Porbably not a larger risk of spoilers, but I’ll keep it in mind.

Post
#884625
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I’m pretty sure that someone here on the forum, that is those that aren’t from the US, will see TFA a day or two earlier than that countdown timer shows.
I definitively will, and I’m going into an internet “blackout” starting the 15th since that’s TFA’s earliest release date, and I don’t want any spoilers.