ZkinandBonez

John Doom said:

Poor grading decisions may had affected their on-screen look too (too much contrast, picture too dim, cyan and magenta over-saturated…)

That was another I possibility I considered as well. Poor colour grading on practical effects, and films in general, is one of my biggest complaints about films made in the past two decades. It just makes everything look so fake.

Bingowings said:

The point I’m making is if you aren’t compelled by what the characters are doing you look at where they are doing it more.
There a plenty of duffly composed shots in the OT but you don’t notice so much because the characters and what they are doing is compelling enough to let them slide.
Very few people notice the sometimes rather nifty designs and sets in terrible movies.

Sure, I get what you’re saying. But I’m the kind of person who tends to pay attention to the special effects while watching a movie and I had never even assumed that there were so much practical in the PT. Like I previously mentioned, I did notice a lot in TPM, but I’ve always assumed that the effects AOTC and ROTS were almost entirely CGI.
But yes, plot has a huge impact on what you notice, as well as what you manage to overlook.

Well I’m not overlooking the poorly written plot, dialogue, characters, etc. but I had expected practical effects like these to stand out more. I rewatched the Coruscant chase scene a few minutes ago because I saw that a lot of elements in that scene were apparently miniatures. However as you said there was so much CGI added to it, including a lot of digital neon effects that it was almost impossible to see. I had to pause the video to actually see it clearly.
Also there’s something about those old digital cameras that make even the real stuff look fake.

I still find it very interesting though. Makes me wonder what the fan-editors could do with the raw-footage.

I know you said “cinematic universe only” but considering how the EU as early as 1977 interpreted R2 and 3PO’s role in the SW universe as more or less slaves I’d say it’s at least very heavily implied. It’s the kind of detail that’s not really necessary to put into in a movie, but there’s plenty of hints towards it. First off all Luke’s relationship to his droids is definitively treated as an exception. Han clearly doesn’t seem to care for droids, but Luke and Obi-Wan treat them with respect. Even the Rebels in general don’t really seem to care that much about them.
Even in TFA Finn seems quite shocked when Poe insists on going back to Jakku to pick up his droid. Rey seems to sympathize with droids, but she is basically just the new Luke so that makes sense, and it takes Finn some time to warm up to BB-8.
I guess the reason why it seems like pretty much everyone cares for droids is because all of the heroes usually does, and they’re of course the main focus of the films.
Treating droids like people nice seems to be SW’s go-to method to immediately establish that someone is a ‘good-guy’.

So I came across this YouTube video called “Practical Prequels - Proof The Star Wars Prequels Were More Than CGI” which is basically a still-image show-reel of the, apparently, many practical effects that were used in the PT. Now some of these weren’t that much of a surprise, such as sets, props, maquettes, etc. but the large amount of miniature effects really surprised me. I knew TPM had some, but I had no idea there were so many in AOTC.
Now maybe this is all old news for some of you, but I was quite surprised by many of these photos. However I still think the PT looks really digital (TPM being somewhat of an exception).
So what happened? Did Lucas cover it all up with CGI? Did all the actuall CGI just draw away our attention? Did it perhaps have something to do with the digital cameras they used back then? Or were the practical effects just not properly utilized in post-production?
Any thoughts?

ATMachine said:

I want a picture of Mace Windu’s lightsaber hilt, specifically the one engraved with BAD M----- F-----*.

(*language censored to protect the children)

Only two pictures I could find;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKOsOeSWUAAoVdJ.jpg
http://whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/kkkUntitled-378x300.png

Although I guess this is slightly off-topic; was there ever any mentioning of Leia’s “real mother” prior to that scene in ROTJ?
It just occurred to me that as someone who grew up with the PT that I always took it for granted that Leia, despite having the Organa name, had a ‘real’ mother. I’m assuming that it must have been a pretty jarring statement for anyone who watched the film for the first time back in 1983.

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

However I did a google image search for Yoda’s lightsaber in ep. II & III and it looks just like the lightsaber in this painting. I also looked at pictures of Yoda from TPM, the original version, and I couldn’t see him carrying a lightsaber. So I guess this could have been made based on some early AOTC artwork, but until I find a specific date I’ll still be somewhat confused by this one.

The TPM Visual Dictionary provided an image of Yoda’s lightsaber hilt.

Ah right, that explains it. Thanks.

(I wonder he choose by though. Green would have been much more predictable. I’m guessing he assumed that Yoda would never have an actual lightsaber duel in the movies so he just chose the colour he thought looked nice.)

RicOlie_2 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Although I’m not a fan of the idea of Yoda using a lightsaber, I still think this is a really cool-looking painting.

(I’m also wondering whether this was made pre-PT since his lightsaber is blue. His belt does however remind me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan’s belts in TPM. Does anyone have any idea when this was made?)

I’m going to guess it was made between TPM and AOTC, as we didn’t see Yoda use a lightsaber in TPM.

Yeah, that would make sense.
However I did a google image search for Yoda’s lightsaber in ep. II & III and it looks just like the lightsaber in this painting. I also looked at pictures of Yoda from TPM, the original version, and I couldn’t see him carrying a lightsaber. So I guess this could have been made based on some early AOTC artwork, but until I find a specific date I’ll still be somewhat confused by this one.

Anyway, here’s some more awesome Yoda art that I found
These are by Tsuneo Sanda;

Although I’m not quite sure where these are from, probably some Disney/Marvel comics that I won’t bother reading, I still though they were pretty cool-looking. They have kind of film-noir femme-fatale feel to them.

Although I’m not a fan of the idea of Yoda using a lightsaber, I still think this is a really cool-looking painting.

(I’m also wondering whether this was made pre-PT since his lightsaber is blue. His belt does however remind me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan’s belts in TPM. Does anyone have any idea when this was made?)

LexX said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Is this for some Disneyland thing? Or some online Virtual Reality thing to market TFA like that 3D-video that they released a few months back.

Also what’s that vehicle on the right? It looks like a cross between a bus and a tank, with an R2-unit sticking out of the roof on the left-hand side.

It’s digital art for Star Tours.

Right, well I googled it (as I guess I should have done in the first place) and to answer my own question; yes, it’s a Disney thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tours).

SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

You don’t really need to see any toilets in the Star Wars universe any more than you need to see a hobbit go relive himself behind a tree in the Middle Earth. It’s pointless, kinda gross, and doesn’t really add anything to the plot. In certain films set in the real world you can get away with it because it’s something that relates to real life. In an epic fantasy setting however, including “a galaxy far, far away”, it would just be weird and distracting.

One series of novels I read back in college did have a great joke about a 20th century character trapped in a mostly medieval magical realm, having a horrified reaction to finding a chamber pot under their bed. Fortunately for them, the castle also had modern plumbing for it’s temporally displaced guests.

Well novels can usually get away with much more than films can. Similarly there a several SW novels that reference bathrooms/'freshers. In a film though you’d better have a pretty good excuse to bring it up. It’s also easier to get away with stuff in text form than visually.

LexX said:

Digital Star Tours art

Is this for some Disneyland thing? Or some online Virtual Reality thing to market TFA like that 3D-video that they released a few months back.

Also what’s that vehicle on the right? It looks like a cross between a bus and a tank, with an R2-unit sticking out of the roof on the left-hand side.

You don’t really need to see any toilets in the Star Wars universe any more than you need to see a hobbit go relive himself behind a tree in the Middle Earth. It’s pointless, kinda gross, and doesn’t really add anything to the plot. In certain films set in the real world you can get away with it because it’s something that relates to real life. In an epic fantasy setting however, including “a galaxy far, far away”, it would just be weird and distracting.

Hal 9000 said:

Padme died on Alderaan in the care of Bail Organa.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5UmTwj6Y18

That’s pretty cool.
(Where did you find that clip of Natalie Portman with the child? It blends in with the other footage really well.)

pat man said:

COULD “FORCE VISION” EXPLAIN HOW LEIA KNOWS WHAT HER MOTHER LOOKS LIKE?

If you replace “explain” with “excuse” then yes, definitely.

I’m actually expecting the new Disney EU to pick up on this pretty soon and make it canon. I also seem to recall the old post-PT EU having a similar excuse, but I don’t remember the details.

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

People have already speculated how Han may make an appearance in a flash-back, a hologram, or even as a Force ghost (the last one I personally don’t buy)

Or in a hallucination. Kylo Ren is mentally unstable.

It could also be a Force related thing as well, kinda like Luke’s “vision” of Vader on Dagobah.

As long as it’s just an illusion and not a ghost I’ll be cool. If Han is to appear in Episode VIII I’d rather it either be in flashback form, a hologram message to Leia and/or Chewie or a hallucination. I want for his deteriorating mental state to play a part in his overall arc. In general I hope he’s kept a layered character and not bogged down due to impatient people bitching about him so much.

I trust that Johnson won’t spoil such a potentially great character. I was actually kind of surprised that Abrams had (co-)made such a character because it seemed a tad darker and more serious than what he usually does (at least based on what I’ve seen of his work), so I don’t see why Johnson wouldn’t do something really exiting about him. Especially now that Abrams/Kasdan have set up some much to work with.
Since Kylo is supposed to be a kind of anti-Luke it makes sense that he’ll go through a lot of trials in the ST’s equivalent of ESB.

And I really don’t see how anyone could possibly make the decision to make Han a Force-ghost, it’s just too weird. I know a lot of fans have “theorized” it, but fans make up a lot of weird crap some times. We’ve already had a Force-flash-back so I doubt they’ll do something stupid. And although I’m fine with another Force-flash-back I really do hope they’ll do something new for ep. VIII.
(EDIT: Which judging by your next statement they already have.)

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:
The ep. VIII script has already been described as being “weird” so it’s not impossible.

Star Wars is a weird franchise and I’ve heard that something that has never been done in Star Wars is happening in this film so anything is possible.

That sounds really interesting, where did you read that?

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

If this is the case I really hope Johnson does something really dark and surreal.

John Boyega said that Episode VIII would be darker.

Music to my ears (well, technically I read it, but you know what I mean). I know SW isn’t supposed to be super dark and serious, but since TFA was so over-all “adventurous” and ep. IX will probably be very ROTJ-like I really hope, and have faith in, Johnson making something much darker and more intense for ep. VIII.
All in all I’m in very exited about this film.

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

People have already speculated how Han may make an appearance in a flash-back, a hologram, or even as a Force ghost (the last one I personally don’t buy)

Or in a hallucination. Kylo Ren is mentally unstable.

That could actually be really interesting. It could also be a Force related thing as well, kinda like Luke’s “vision” of Vader on Dagobah. The ep. VIII script has already been described as being “weird” so it’s not impossible. If this is the case I really hope Johnson does something really dark and surreal. This is going to be the ESB of the ST after all.

Not much solid info here, but some of it was kind of interesting;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/01/the-rumored-cast-of-star-wars-episode-viii.html

Apart from Trevorrow confirming that both Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher will be in ep. IX, plus the already discussed re-appearance of Harrison Ford, it seems that Max Von Sydow might return as well.

People have already speculated how Han may make an appearance in a flash-back, a hologram, or even as a Force ghost (the last one I personally don’t buy), but I guess it’s not out of the question that Lor San Tekka might appear as a ghost, being that he clearly has some relationship with the Jedi and the Force, and that he was referred to as the “vicar” early on. Or both Han and Tekka might be showed into another Force-flash-back scene alongside a bunch of other stuff.

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:
Luke got sucked into a tube in which he slid down to, not the end of the tube, but some point in the middle which happened to have a hatch that then dumped him on top of one of Cloud City’s antennas. That’s a pretty crappy waste disposal system. Imagine all the broken antennas, and all the crap that didn’t slide down and land precisely on that one hatch. Where does all that go then? To another antenna somewhere else? No, I have to strongly disagree, it is a very “bizarre thing,” that is if you have to attribute some engineering logic to it, which you really don’t. And if it does have a purpose, than I doubt that waste disposal is the answer.

There is nothing wrong with waste disposal system. Blame the guy who installed an antenna near its exit. That is like inserting an antenna into the car’s exhaust pipe and then complaining about engineering of car’s exhaust system.

I’d say that’s a bigger stretch of the imagination than it being something else than a waste disposal system.

imperialscum said:

Wexter said:
Incredible. You’d really make a brilliant screenwriter.

Indeed. At least compared to ZkinandBonez whose writing principle would be “I will only make this thing for the sake of plot”.

Well, first of all I’m not saying that you can do absolutely anything for the sake of moving the plot forward, but when your setting is a floating city in a space-fantasy in a “a galaxy far, far away” you can get away with quite a lot.
Secondly SW is filled with these “logical” errors. Take the tractor beam in ANH. Obi-Wan manages to take down the entire Death Star’s tractor beam system by disabling 1 of 7 reactors, which btw are placed over a seemingly bottomless pit without any for of railings what-so-ever, or any form of security (you know like a password or something). Now that’s some pretty crappy engineering. However, do I care, no. Do most people care, not really. Most people don’t even think about it. It’s weird, but this isn’t meant to be realistic, so why bother complaining about it. And being able to get away with stuff like that is in my opinion some pretty clever writing on Lucas’ part.
And yes, I do realize I’m over explaining this, but I just don’t follow this whole “it all has to make perfect sense” thing.

TV’s Frink said:

FTR, the middle of the tube dumped him into a second tube, which then dumped him out to the antenna.

Right.
That still makes it one very impractical waste disposal system though.

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Also finding a piece of solid metal at the bottom of a pit isn’t exactly comparable to growing a new head.

But finding something that was flow into the gas giant and disintegrated is.

Why do you keep insisting that it fell into the gas giant?

Because it did.

Could you elaborate on that please, because that is not obvious to me.

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Just because Luke got sucked into a tube that eventually dumped him onto an antenna (a very bizarre thing that only happened for plot reasons I might add)

No, you may not add that false claim. The thing was clearly waste disposal system and not some “bizarre thing”. Though, it also serve a plot nicely.

Luke got sucked into a tube in which he slid down to, not the end of the tube, but some point in the middle which happened to have a hatch that then dumped him on top of one of Cloud City’s antennas. That’s a pretty crappy waste disposal system. Imagine all the broken antennas, and all the crap that didn’t slide down and land precisely on that one hatch. Where does all that go then? To another antenna somewhere else? No, I have to strongly disagree, it is a very “bizarre thing,” that is if you have to attribute some engineering logic to it, which you really don’t. And if it does have a purpose, than I doubt that waste disposal is the answer.

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Also finding a piece of solid metal at the bottom of a pit isn’t exactly comparable to growing a new head.

But finding something that was flow into the gas giant and disintegrated is.

Why do you keep insisting that it fell into the gas giant? There’s so many other things that could have logically happened to it (despite the fact that SW was never too concerned with “logic”). Just because Luke got sucked into a tube that eventually dumped him onto an antenna (a very bizarre thing that only happened for plot reasons I might add) doesn’t mean that that exact thing would’ve happened to the saber.
Even if you have to be picky, there’s so many possible outcomes here.

Bingowings said:

It has to make sense from a fantasy perspective.

If Magic Muscle Hero’s warrior bride has her head cut off she has to evoke the power of the sword God to return from the grave to lend a hand once.
If she just grows a new head back for convenience sake that becomes a new established ‘fantasy’ fact you can’t switch off without inventing a new ‘fantasy’ law.

Excalibur is purposely returned to the lady of the lake to be returned to the once and future king at the moment when he is needed to return.
It didn’t just fall into the sea.

Yes, exactly. And now the Excalibur/Luke’s-lightsaber has been mysteriously handed down to Rey from unknown, but far from impossible to explain, circumstances.

Also finding a piece of solid metal at the bottom of a pit isn’t exactly comparable to growing a new head.

Wexter said:

LOL @ trying to explain design in Star Wars OT with supposed “engineering knowledge”.

Cloud city looked the way it looked for aesthetic and storytelling purposes. Not because of physics. This is Star Wars, ffs. Ships go ka-boom in space in these movies!

My point exactly, Cloud City is a “magical” safe-haven floating in the sky to welcome the Falcon (heck the previously bright clouds even turn dark once it’s been revealed that the Empire set up a trap). That’s it. It has plot value, symbolic value and looks awesome. It doesn’t have to make sense logically.