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ZkinandBonez

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Join date
5-May-2015
Last activity
29-Nov-2024
Posts
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Post
#1380194
Topic
What is your main way of watching the Original Trilogy?
Time

CatBus said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I can’t imagine this is necessary in order to clean up old films in general?

Blu-rays of old films aren’t made from projection prints because projection prints, in most cases, don’t have enough fine detail to make complete use of 1080p resolution. People like all the extra detail Blu-ray had the capacity to reveal, and 35mm negatives give us the ability to provide all that and more, so I don’t really blame anyone for doing what they do in this respect.

But if you go back to the negative or something like it, you’ll usually have to redo the color grade, because the colors on the negative frequently look nothing like the film as it was originally projected. And usually there’s some other cleanup people do as well. “Grain management” is part of the modern restoration workflow of any film-based movie, but what the grain management entails can vary. Degrain/regrain is one of the blunter tools in that toolkit, and all I can say for sure is that it’s used a lot, and it was used on the 2011 Blu-rays.

I’m assuming then that “grain management” is done on new movies shot on film as well? Could that be why a lot of new movies shot on film end up looking so digital?

BTW, I get why they redo the colour grade when restoring films, I just feel that they make poor judgments on the aesthetic and often make old films look too new. I’m obviously no expert on film colours, but I find that this is a bigger problem with franchise films which are more popular, while more niche films end up looking appropriately “retro” (though I’m sure this varies greatly as well depending on who restores the film).

Post
#1380126
Topic
What is your main way of watching the Original Trilogy?
Time

CatBus said:

ZkinandBonez said:

CatBus said:

The 2011 Blu-ray grain is mostly fake grain, so it doesn’t really represent the films as they would normally appear. Nevertheless, the negatives would still have quite a bit of natural film grain – less than the 4Kxx projects, but maybe only slightly less than 4K83. The real odd-looking ones are the UHD’s. The only significant grain to be found on them is frozen grain.

I’ve heard of Blu-ray releases “de-graining” old films, but I’ve never heard of adding fake grain. Why would they do that?

It’s pretty common. They degrain the film first, so that they can do major image enhancements without the grain causing weird effects (i.e. so you can boost the yellows or the sharpness without having yellow/extra sharp grain, also for 3D conversion so you don’t end up with 3D floating grain). Then, because the image looks like crap without grain, they add it back in at the end, after all the image adjustments have been made. People blame Lowry for inventing the degrain/regrain process, and I’m not sure where it really started, but it’s widespread. Some places go through more effort than others to make the added grain look natural and filmstock-accurate. Rarely does the film end up looking as grainy as a film (negative) from that period really would, so the whole process is still a net loss of grain (so a “de-grained” Blu-ray likely still has added fake grain). In these cases, the grain that’s there isn’t from the film, it’s from a computer. “Filmic” is what reviewers tend to call it when it works well.

What the UHD versions of Star Wars are is the version prepped for 3D conversion (so scrubbed as completely as possible of grain), but the 3D project was abandoned. Normally such a film would be fake-grained back up before a 2D release, but apparently nobody got the memo.

Ideally you wouldn’t bother degraining and regraining, but film negatives often have wildly differing colors than the original projection prints, so if you have a process that starts with scanning negatives (and people tend to like seeing all that extra fine detail on their Blu-rays that comes from the negatives), color grading and grain management usually just have to come with the package deal. But as with everything, there’s how to do it right, and how to do it cheap, and you can get wildly different results.

For an example of what they’re trying to avoid through degraining, mess with the sharpness setting on your set. Go ahead and turn it up to 11, then watch a grainy movie. It’s… not right. Also keep in mind that most displays are sold with default sharpness settings that are not zero, so grain really does genuinely look wrong for most people, because their sets are pre-configured to make grain look bad. The correct setting for sharpness on your display is always zero.

Weird. I had no idea. I’m guessing this is mostly done with more “popular” films, franchise films, etc. or do they degrain/regrain films in general? I can see the logic of doing this with f.ex. the SW SE’s since they had to add and “fix” effects, but I can’t imagine this is necessary in order to clean up old films in general?

It’s funny really, ever since I started watching the various restorations and grindhouse editions at TheStarWarsTrilogy forum I’ve started seeing blu-ray released of old film with entirely new eyes. Which in this case is not a positive, because I always assumed that other than the SW SE’s and its few copycats generally weren’t tampered with at all, but now I’m starting to find a lot of “restorations” quite frustrating to watch. So I guess I can now add de-/re-graining to the list alongside incorrect colour grading.

Post
#1380082
Topic
What is your main way of watching the Original Trilogy?
Time

CatBus said:

The 2011 Blu-ray grain is mostly fake grain, so it doesn’t really represent the films as they would normally appear. Nevertheless, the negatives would still have quite a bit of natural film grain – less than the 4Kxx projects, but maybe only slightly less than 4K83. The real odd-looking ones are the UHD’s. The only significant grain to be found on them is frozen grain.

I’ve heard of Blu-ray releases “de-graining” old films, but I’ve never heard of adding fake grain. Why would they do that?

Post
#1378833
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

Denmark Disney+ ad has (accidentally?) confirmed the casting of Rosario Dawson and Timothy Olyphant in season 2: https://thedirect.com/article/the-mandalorian-season-2-disney-rosario-dawson-timothy-olyphant-cast
The ad has now been taken down.

Almost certain that Ahsoka Tano will be in the show now. As for Timothy Olyphant, of course a lot of people say Cobb Vanth from the Aftermath trilogy; I haven’t read those books in ages though so I’ve forgotten who he is.

I haven’t read the books, but from what I’ve gathered Vanth bought Fett’s armor from some Jawas and is posing as him.

Also the ad was in German, not Danish. Not that it’s important, but as a Scandinavian I felt that I should point that out.

Post
#1377556
Topic
Opinion: Return Of The Jedi is Very Underrated. Do You Agree?
Time

Hoop28 said:

I think ROTJ has some really strong moments, some of the best in the entire Trilogy in fact. But at the same time, it also has some of the weakest.

I agree with the above statement wholeheartedly, and I think calling it both great and terrible (especially the latter) is ridiculously hyperbolic. On the grand scene of all cinema it’s a fairly mediocre film, but to call it an awful film is IMO quite ridiculous.

As for the Ewoks;
EC Henry made a pretty good video explaining how they work within the film, and he didn’t even mention the pretty obvious themes that Lucas had been playing with since the early drafts of SW.

A Defense of Ewoks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNOwClygdI&list=PLYn2a0e2FVIKni_wHXR5CJYBnnnYH7mIB&index=22&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (3:30 mins long).

Post
#1377348
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

Giancarlo Esposito Claims That ‘The Mandalorian’ Will Be At Least Four Seasons Long
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2020/09/the-mandalorian-four-seasons-giancarlo-esposito.html

“We’re living in a universe that is huge and there’s so much to explore, so I think this show is going to lay the ground work for the depth and breath that’s gonna come in season 3 and season 4, where you’re really gonna start to get answers.”

Post
#1377144
Topic
The Beyond the OT Trailers/Promos Thread (YouTube/Vimeo, etc. finds)
Time

The Mandalorian - Season 2 Official Disney+ Trailer (2020)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7Twd85m2g - from the official Star Wars YouTube channel (2 mins long).

The blurb:
“The Mandalorian and the Child continue their journey, facing enemies and rallying allies as they make their way through a dangerous galaxy in the tumultuous era after the collapse of the Galactic Empire.”

The Mandalorian - Season 2 Special Look Disney+ (2020)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICuqzhViWAI&t

The blurb:
“The next chapter begins. Start streaming the new season of The Mandalorian Oct. 30 on Disney+.”

Post
#1377143
Topic
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Time

Inside ILM: Creating the Razor Crest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YuaIwVbEZo&t - from the official ILMVFX YouTube channel (17 mins long).

The blurb:
“Join us as we journey behind the scenes of the Emmy™ Award-winning visual effects behind the first season of The Mandalorian. We’ll pull back the curtain on one of our favorite bounty hunter’s ship, the infamous Razor Crest and look at the distinctive former military ship from its initial concept design in Doug Chiang’s Lucasfilm art department through to ILM artists building the ship in the digital realm and as a practical miniature for filming. We’ll also look at the parallel development of the custom motion control camera system created by ILM Visual Effects Supervisor, John Knoll to allow for the first motion control shots to film at ILM in 15 years.”

Post
#1375444
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

I’m quite curious as to where they’re willing to take the series as bringing a de-aged or re-cast Luke is quite risky. Not to mention that if the Child joins Luke’s academy then canonically he would most likely be killed by Ben Solo. Unless they add some novel/comic workaround for it, but even if ts only implied I doubt they will risk that with such a popular and beloved character. Ahsoka would be less risky I think, and it makes sense as Filoni is involved, but of course then you have to introduce a “new” character as far as most viewers are concerned and it would also imply that Ahsoka chose not to associate herself with Luke, which raises many possibly interesting questions. They could of course return the Child to Yoda’s Species, but then they would of course have to go against Lucas’ wishes to never explore that species, and it could potentially be a bit of a cop-out. It will also be interesting to see how many seasons they’ll decided to stretch this idea as I doubt they’ll continue the series after Dyn has returned the Child to wherever that ends up being, even though the show is just called “The Mandalorian.”

Post
#1375251
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

Probably an odd thing to single out from the whole trailer, but the docks with all the Quarren looks really cool. And for some reason I really like the idea of simple boats in SW. Fauvreau doesn’t overthink SW like some people tend to do; so the ‘fish people’ live in a port town surrounded by fishing nets and boats. Nice and simple space fantasy.

Also, am I the only one who for a moment thought the Bantha was speaking here; https://youtu.be/eW7Twd85m2g?t=35

Post
#1374318
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Ewan McGregor Confirms Kenobi Disney Plus Series Will Be One Standalone Season; Shooting Starts Spring 2021
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2020/09/ewan-mcgregor-confirms-kenobi-disney-plus-series-will-be-one-standalone-season-shooting-starts-spring-2021.html

Of course the latter could always change, and I don’t think too many expected an ongoing series. If they manage to stick to this though, then it’s most likely it will be done early 2022.

Post
#1372752
Topic
The <strong>random YouTube / Vimeo etc video finds</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

Star Wars / Airwolf Rebels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbh61zuNYr8 - from the kalleanka71 YouTube channel (1 min long).

Star Wars / Airwolf Imperial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfNG_saVEnk - from the kalleanka71 YouTube channel (1 min long).

Star Wars / Dallas opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAHYftmwY0U - from the kalleanka71 YouTube channel (1 min long).

Post
#1370250
Topic
The <strong>random YouTube / Vimeo etc video finds</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

Mocata said:

Oh I was just going to post that. It’s a cool series and it’s dumb that the newer movies don’t have such interesting designs.

As I was watching the video I suddenly thought to myself, “if only they’d done something like this for TROS then Kylo escaping the DS2 in a TIE would actually make sense.” Just to be clear, I’m not someone who really cares about realism in SW, but I do feel that consistency is important. It’s too bad that the new movies can’t come up with ideas like EC Henry’s. They’ve had a few interesting new ships, and even dusted off some cool old designs, but nothing like this. I hope they one day come to their senses and take advantage of these fan ideas and actually use them (properly that is, not stealing designs like Marvel has). I’d love to see something like Henry’s Imperial Nebulon-B or the Civilian Snowspeeder in a future series or movie.

Post
#1370203
Topic
Would it not be amazing if we got a Darth Vader movie directed by Christopher Nolan?
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

Id also like them to do animated movies or series for other things like Indiana Jones for instance. Not just Star Wars. And adapt some of the legends material into non canon animated films. I mean using the DC illustration, they have a sort of multiverse where different canons exist for Superman and Batman stories that are not all in the same continuity.

Agreed. They could so easily “win back” a lot of older SW fans by making animated films of the Thrawn Trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, etc. If WB can do it with reasonably quality I don’t see why Disney/Lucasfilm can’t do it. I’m sure Disney has a lot of animators that would love to work on these projects. As for canon status; all they have to do is slap the “Legends” logo on them. A lot of people simply would’t know or care what the difference is, and those who do care already knows the distinction anyway.

Also, animated Indy films would be awesome. They probably wouldn’t manage to get Ford back for the voice, but people have accepted substitutes for SW characters, so why not Indy as well.

Post
#1370199
Topic
Would it not be amazing if we got a Darth Vader movie directed by Christopher Nolan?
Time

That’s oddly specific. I mean I like Nolan’s films, but now that he’s past his “Batman phase” I don’t see him ever doing franchise films again. He’s basically his own brand now, and I can’t imagine he’d be able to work under Disney/Lucasfilm’s restrictions.

A Vader film is also kind of a tricky thing, because how do you craft a film around a character who’s already had six films that’s more or less about him? In my opinion Disney should start animating some of their best comic series, kinda like what Warner Bros Animation does with DC comics. The Vader comic series by Charles Soul is IMO one of the best SW comics ever made (and definitely the best of the current era) and would make for a great animated series or series of short-ish straight to home-video/streaming type movies.

Post
#1370194
Topic
The <strong>random YouTube / Vimeo etc video finds</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

The Secret Mystery TIE FIGHTER in Return of the Jedi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYpbVrXFSqQ&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (6:45 mins long)

The blurb:
“We might think that we’ve seen every ship in Star Wars… but there are always new discoveries! In this case, possibly an entirely new variant of TIE fighter.”

ZkinandBonez said:

Previous EC Henry restoration and redesign videos posted in this thread:

Making a Civilian T-47 Snowspeeder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xqUbRKrjUo - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (4 mins long).

The blurb:
“The snowspeeder is an iconic Star Wars vehicle, but canonically it was developed from a stock civilian airspeeder. In this video, I design what that might look like.”

The Most Obscure Rebel Ship in Star Wars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeA777Ru7aI - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (10 mins long)

The blurb:
“So many canonical Original Trilogy ships have been totally forgotten by official Star Wars media. It’s my goal to restore them all to their rightful place!”

Three Rebel Ships That Star Wars Forgot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5b0cxF8HOE - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (6 mins long)

The blurb:
"You might think you know every ship in the Rebel Alliance fleet, but there are ships in the original Star Wars trilogy that have somehow evaded detection for decades. I’ve brought three Rebel “mystery ships” to life. "

The Ugliest Rebel Ship You’ve NEVER Heard of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLocVDui6Y - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (5 mins long)

The blurb:
"It’s amazing that there are canonical ships in the original Star Wars trilogy that are completely neglected. Come explore a completely unexplored ship of the Rebel Alliance! "

The Mon Cal Cruiser You Never Knew Existed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtozC1NLZY8 - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (6 mins long)

The blurb:
“Star Wars is full of mysterious ships that for some reason have never been acknolwedged by canon. I explore one such ship today!”

The IMPERIAL Nebulon-B Frigate (Fan design)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz13rwQpUd4&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (9 mins long)

The blurb:
“The Nebulon-B has long been considered a Rebel vessel, but canonically this frigate was originally an Imperial vessel. I took on the challenge of creating what that might have looked like.”

TIE Shuttle’s TRUE FORM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VPVxrKCUGg - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (2:40 mins long)

The blurb:
“Star Wars has no shortage of TIE variants. We’ve all been told that the TIE shuttle is essentially just one ship re-purposed as another. But… the truth is a little more interesting! Let’s explore the TIE Shuttle’s true form!”

The ORIGINAL Star Destroyer: Colin Cantwell’s Design Reborn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZLAtGu3-98&list=PLYn2a0e2FVIKni_wHXR5CJYBnnnYH7mIB&index=146&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (5 mins long)

The blurb:
“Many fans of Star Wars don’t know the name Colin Cantwell, but they should. He designed almost every ship in the original film, including the Star Destroyer, which began its life as a very interesting design. Let’s explore that design and maybe we can bring it to life.”

Post
#1367617
Topic
The <strong>random YouTube / Vimeo etc video finds</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

Despecialized vs Project 4K77 vs Star Wars Official 2011 Blu-Ray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKYiISAYCm0 - from the HelloGreedo YouTube channel (18 mins long).

The blurb:
“Let’s take a look at Harmy’s Despecialized Edition, Project 4K77, and the official 2011 Star Wars Blu-Ray release. I’ll discuss some history of each project, and then jump into comparing all three versions.”

HelloGreedo has already done a few similar videos about this subject, but I think this is the best one so far. It succinctly summarizes the history of the three versions, adding just enough details about Harmy, Team negative 1, etc, while showcasing some of the biggest ANH differences and even commenting on the restoration community itself.

Post
#1367326
Topic
The <strong>random YouTube / Vimeo etc video finds</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

Making a Civilian T-47 Snowspeeder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xqUbRKrjUo - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (4 mins long).

The blurb:
“The snowspeeder is an iconic Star Wars vehicle, but canonically it was developed from a stock civilian airspeeder. In this video, I design what that might look like.”

ZkinandBonez said:

Previous EC Henry restoration and redesign videos posted in this thread:

The Most Obscure Rebel Ship in Star Wars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeA777Ru7aI - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (10 mins long)

The blurb:
“So many canonical Original Trilogy ships have been totally forgotten by official Star Wars media. It’s my goal to restore them all to their rightful place!”

Three Rebel Ships That Star Wars Forgot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5b0cxF8HOE - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (6 mins long)

The blurb:
"You might think you know every ship in the Rebel Alliance fleet, but there are ships in the original Star Wars trilogy that have somehow evaded detection for decades. I’ve brought three Rebel “mystery ships” to life. "

The Ugliest Rebel Ship You’ve NEVER Heard of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLocVDui6Y - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (5 mins long)

The blurb:
"It’s amazing that there are canonical ships in the original Star Wars trilogy that are completely neglected. Come explore a completely unexplored ship of the Rebel Alliance! "

The Mon Cal Cruiser You Never Knew Existed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtozC1NLZY8 - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (6 mins long)

The blurb:
“Star Wars is full of mysterious ships that for some reason have never been acknolwedged by canon. I explore one such ship today!”

The IMPERIAL Nebulon-B Frigate (Fan design)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz13rwQpUd4&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (9 mins long)

The blurb:
“The Nebulon-B has long been considered a Rebel vessel, but canonically this frigate was originally an Imperial vessel. I took on the challenge of creating what that might have looked like.”

TIE Shuttle’s TRUE FORM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VPVxrKCUGg - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (2:40 mins long)

The blurb:
“Star Wars has no shortage of TIE variants. We’ve all been told that the TIE shuttle is essentially just one ship re-purposed as another. But… the truth is a little more interesting! Let’s explore the TIE Shuttle’s true form!”

The ORIGINAL Star Destroyer: Colin Cantwell’s Design Reborn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZLAtGu3-98&list=PLYn2a0e2FVIKni_wHXR5CJYBnnnYH7mIB&index=146&t - from the EC Henry YouTube channel (5 mins long)

The blurb:
“Many fans of Star Wars don’t know the name Colin Cantwell, but they should. He designed almost every ship in the original film, including the Star Destroyer, which began its life as a very interesting design. Let’s explore that design and maybe we can bring it to life.”

Post
#1367208
Topic
Video Essays - YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds
Time

YOJIMBO & A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS - How The Western Was Changed Forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0kJkShY1-E&list=PLYn2a0e2FVIJ66EP8vMU64l-kIhHU9zg7&index=72&t - from the Matt Draper YouTube channel (17 mins long).

The blurb:
“On the blending of Western and Samurai genres found in Akira Kurosawa’s “Yojimbo” and Sergio Leone’s “A Fistful of Dollars,” which took inspiration from classic Western films and then reinvented the genre through perspectives from Japan and Italy.”

Sergio Leone’s Dollar Trilogy Timeline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQIy_hu34KA - from the Stian A. Olsen YouTube channel (3:50 mins long).

The blurb:
“The Dollars Trilogy, also known as the Man with No Name Trilogy is an Italian film series consisting of three masterpieces directed by Sergio Leone. The films came to be considered a trilogy due to American distributor United Artists smart marketing concept. This short video identifies the three films’ timeline as well as a couple of “blink-and-you’ll-miss-it” details.”