ZkinandBonez

JakeRyan17 said:

I think it was, you’re just not looking in the right places.

And as far as people being overlooked, it was Kathleen that brought him over to Mandalorian after she fired Josh Trank and hired Favreau. Mandalorian started as the unproduced Boba Fett movie. Kathleen pulled him to help develop it as a series with Favreau before Star Wars Resistance, and that’s why he was overseeing but not show-running that series. That’s also why he learned to direct from Johnson, because that’s how long ago they were working on season 1.

Like, everyone wants to demonise her or blame her for what they don’t like, but then they don’t credit her for what they do like. She was getting Mandalorian off the ground prior to firing the directors of Solo.

But at the end of the day, as with any film, the director has that final say on set. If you wanna complain about films not getting things right, blame them. Abrams is the main culprit, even if you hated TLJ Abrams signed off on that while he was still shooting TFA.

I just feel like we’re always looking for excuses to blame the woman for what the men do wrong and not to credit her for her astute decisions. Filoni is great, don’t get me wrong… but he’s not the messiah. Film and TV aren’t ever made by just one person.

You’re making a lot of assumptions again. I never mentioned Kennedy by name, nor Abrams or Johnson. I’ve only vaguely criticized the ST in a very general way and I appreciate it if you didn’t compare me to certain angry fans simply because of some very superfluous similarities. I don’t think they’re awful movies, there are many elements that I actually liked, but I’m just not particularly impressed by the overall trilogy and how it concluded.

I stand corrected on several production details though. I didn’t know they were “preparing” Filoni for live-action as early as TLJ. I will say though that I’m somewhat tired of the “film and TV aren’t made by one person” argument. Yes, its true that many people make movies/series great, but directors and show-runners are there to keep all that talent together and keep their input within a cohesive framework so that the final product fits within his/her idea of what the movie/series should be. Filoni’s obviously not the only reason TCW, Rebels or The Mandalorian are good, but he’s obviously one of the main contributors to all of them.

JakeRyan17 said:

I think some of that was Filoni as well. Animation and live action are very different in how they’re made. Filoni was initially nervous to do 3D Animation instead of something he could draw, and also he was untested and it would’ve been a big risk to have him do one of the sequels.

Directing actors in animation is only during a production record, and an entire episode can be done in a day, as opposed to a couple weeks and having to direct an actor’s face to shape into how you’d like it “drawn”.

Like, everyone here hates The Last Jedi, but Filoni credits Rian Johnson with teaching him how to direct actors on a set.

It wasn’t disrespectful for Filoni to learn how to do the job before it was handed to him.

Yes, I agree with all that, but again, I never said anything about him not getting respect. I was talking about Disney/Lucasfilm properly using his SW expertise. He has been known as someone who has a great grasp of SW as a whole for quite a while and I think it was really wise of Favreau to bring him onboard for the Mandalorian as a co-producer and as a creative consultant. From watching the Disney Gallery series it’s heavily implied that he was the “lore guy” that made sure everything worked within the larger framework of the franchise (especially Lucas’s core ideas, or “vision” if you will). The fact that he’s now also directed several live-action episodes is just an added bonus. I didn’t mean he should have directed one of ST movies or something like that, but I do feel that he wasn’t properly utilized for a while.

This sounds very much like the Animatrix. Could be really interesting if they don’t give too many restrictions and allow the animators to get a little weird and crazy. I obviously don’t expect them to go as far as the Animatrix did (I’m assuming this is mostly marketed for kids?), but it’s still a great opportunity for SW to get a little experimental.

JakeRyan17 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Anyone else spot Fennec Shand in the trailer? She appears at 0:41 & 0:50. I really like the idea of getting a “Filoniverse” as I’ve heard people call it being the new thing for SW. We are after all getting this animated series and two live action series produced and co-written by Filoni. It’s really good to see that he’s finally getting the big recognition that he deserved and that we have some sense of cohesion and inter-connectivity with the various series.

Has Filoni not been getting respect?

I didn’t say he wasn’t respected, I was referring to how Disney/Lucasfilm treated him as just the “animation guy” for a long time, but now he’s the co-producer on three live-action series as well as the guy they trusted to direct the first episode of the first live-action SW series ever. When the ST movies were being made a lot of fans wanted Filoni to be more involved with the live-action stories and not just do the “kids” shows, and now he’s doing just that, as well keeping the animated series going.

Luke and Vader had several pre-ESB encounters in Legends and current canon, and while some very pretty dumb, some worked quite well. The new canon one I think managed to work around to quite well, and I think Chow and whoever is writing the new series is well aware of how “risky” this is so I’m not to worried about it. For all we know Vader might not even know its Obi-Wan, maybe he’ll be posing as someone else, or despite the dramatic “rematch of the century” statement it could be something that’s over quite quickly (i.e. Obi-Wan is forced to escape quite quickly or something ends up separating them). There’s a lot of ways this can go.

And lets not forget that SW continuity is already filled with minor continuity errors, strange coincidences and semi-retcons. Such as Ben telling Luke Yoda trained him (which is technically true), Ben not recognizing Artoo & Threepio in ANH, or Leia somehow remembering her mother despite Padmè dying in Ep. 3.

Hal 9000 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

HelloGreedo pointed out something fascinating in his review of Chapter 15; https://youtu.be/Z2j2A_an09w?t=313
Mayfeld and all the stormtroopers salute with their left hand instead of the right. Now that could of course just have been the fictionalized SW version of it, but he also points out that the stormtrooper armor is mirrored, which you can tell from looking at the mismatched knee-pads/joints on the costumes. So for whatever reason they’ve mirrored several shots in the episode. Maybe the sense of direction was broken at some point, i.e. Cara and Fennec looked left while standing on the mountain ridge while Mayfeld & Din drove right, thereby causing some disorientation for the viewer or something like that.

Y’know… I kinda like the old school feel of doing stuff like mirroring shots like that. It’s part of moviemaking and need not be feared.

Yeah, sure. Even talented filmmakers like Famuyiwa makes small mistakes every now and then and most viewers wouldn’t have noticed (or really cared) that a few stormtroopers saluted with the “wrong” arm.

I am curious however about why they flipped a few shot shots. Seeing the episode again its clear that it’s just a few shots and not the whole scene as I previously assumed, so I’m guessing Famuyiwa just preferred one shot to be the other direction for the sake of a better sense of direction alongside with the other shots as they drive across the bridge.

HelloGreedo pointed out something fascinating in his review of Chapter 15; https://youtu.be/Z2j2A_an09w?t=313
Mayfeld and all the stormtroopers salute with their left hand instead of the right. Now that could of course just have been the fictionalized SW version of it, but he also points out that the stormtrooper armor is mirrored, which you can tell from looking at the mismatched knee-pads/joints on the costumes. So for whatever reason they’ve mirrored several shots in the episode. Maybe the sense of direction was broken at some point, i.e. Cara and Fennec looked left while standing on the mountain ridge while Mayfeld & Din drove right, thereby causing some disorientation for the viewer or something like that.

idir_hh said:

ZkinandBonez said:

This might also be what the rumoured Cara Dune series actually is.

Please don’t

She’s okay in Mando, but she ain’t got the chops to carry her own series. At least not yet.

Since this will directly tie into the Ashoka series, it’s more likely that this is the Rebels sequel.

Personally I’d prefer if this turned out to be a buddy-cop crime thriller in the Core worlds. But that’s just me…

Oh I don’t think it will be Cara Dune’s series in the same way as the Andor series, but that the rumours that Gina Carano would be in another series might be based on leaks from this series. I get the impression that it will be an ensemble cast, maybe including Carson Teva but probably mostly new characters.

Not to sure about the Rebels sequel idea, unless you’re just referring t it tying in to the story of the Rebellion as a whole? If they end up doing the Ezra return in live action them I’m pretty sure they’ll do that in the Ahsoka series. Since it’s only one season they might be banking on the animated series fans being a big part of the market, while the other two Favreau/Filoni series, plus all the other ones, will be more focused on a general audience.

Though it being parallel to The Mandaorian doesn’t mean we’ll see too many familiar characters and it could mostly be its own thing overall. I agree it would be nice to finally get to see what’s going on in the core worlds.

This might also be what the rumoured Cara Dune series actually is. Now that she’s an official New Republic marshal I at least think she’ll appear in the show a few episodes if not regularly.

idir_hh said:

Hoping the finale is at least 1 hour long. A lot of story to fill in one episode.

Either that or we might get a cliff-hanger with a season 3 conclusion.

Interesting how one of the things that they show in the sizzle reel (at 1:01) is basically just a wall of photos of what looks to be Inuits*, perhaps a Mongolian hut and a bunch of other places I have no idea where is. Either way I lie the idea of Andor going to all parts of the galaxy, not just to the industrial or rich planets as suggested by all the concept art of people in party clothing (which has a bit of a Canto Bight vibe to it BTW).

*I’m assuming this has something to do with the scene in the concept art at https://youtu.be/gSW-pARyP-M?t=96 where we see a woman wearing Inuit snow goggles.

Also fun to see Luke’s yellow jacket or one of the same design at least. Though it wouldn’t surprise me if this was some kind of obscure easter egg and be get to see who owned that jacket before Luke gets it in ANH.

They also seem to attach some kind of strap to a life-size figure of a dog at 1:10 which seems really odd for a SW trailer, but I’m guessing they’re planning on making some kind of practical alien effect by dressing up a dog.

I also think its kinda funny how everything RO-related sees to really commit to the weird mechanical eye thing that we saw on Benthic & Edrio, only now we get some kind of combination of Lobot and Boris from MIB3. Which I’m not knocking, I really like the freaky robot-eyes/masked designs like Plo-Koon, Zuckuss, etc.

The Bad Batch - Disney+ Sizzle Reel (2020)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB9DIxdB198 - from the official Star Wars YouTube channel (1 min long).

The blurb:
“A sneak peek at Star Wars: The Bad Batch, an all-new animated Original Series from Lucasfilm Animation, coming soon to Disney+.”

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Celebration Reel (2016)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSW-pARyP-M - from the official Star Wars YouTube channel (3 mins long).

The blurb:
“Go behind the scenes with the cast and crew of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story.”

Andor - Disney+ Sizzle Reel (2020)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSW-pARyP-M - from the official Star Wars YouTube channel (2 mins long).

The blurb:
““Everything I did, I did for the Rebellion.” Andor, an Original Series set in the Star Wars universe, is streaming in 2022 on Disney+.”

Anyone else spot Fennec Shand in the trailer? She appears at 0:41 & 0:50. I really like the idea of getting a “Filoniverse” as I’ve heard people call it being the new thing for SW. We are after all getting this animated series and two live action series produced and co-written by Filoni. It’s really good to see that he’s finally getting the big recognition that he deserved and that we have some sense of cohesion and inter-connectivity with the various series.

Got a big Wages of Fear/Sorcerer vibe from Chapter 15. Also really cool to get to see things from within the Imperial Remnant. This is episode is very much what I hope Andor will be like; suspense mixed with action, and it’s always fun to have characters within the SW universe discuss the moral grey zones of the Rebellion/New Republic and the Empire. It’s the kind of thing that the movies rarely has time to get into but is perfect for the series.

[SPOILERS]

I really like how Favreau/Filoni has been treating Din’s character development relating to his dogmatic views. Last season touched on it by letting IG-11 take his helmet off, but it was a little bit of a cop-out as he was a droid (which was important for other reasons and made sense at that point), but having Din be forced to take it off again, and keep it off for so long while Mayfeld and several Imperials were watching, that was a great moment. If it had been Cara, Greef or another Mandalorian I don’t think it would have had the same impact. He’s loosening up and realizing that the code is not all that important compared to simply doing what he feels is morally right.

Now that we’ll get two parallel series with The Mandalorian I’m more and more sure that this series will culminate in the re-taking of Mandalore (the planet) and Din becoming an important uniting figure in their culture, perhaps even becoming the new Mandalore (i.e. the leader) instead of Bo-katan.

Also nice to finally get a proper(-ish) look inside Slave 1. We only saw the cockpit in Episode 2 so I always wondered what would happen to the passenger section when the ship rotated.

BTW, someone translated the chaincode that Fett showed Din in the last episode; https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/k6qay9/translation_of_bobas_chain_code_possibly_reveals/

Most of it’s not very surprising, basically listing Jango and his “son” Boba, but it also mentions the planet Concord Dawn and lists “Mentor Jaste-” (the e is partially cut off) which is most certainly a reference to Jaster Mereel who raised Jango after being orphaned in Legends. It was also the original name for Boba Fett before being retconned into a different person.

Here’s a short summary of the character by Star Wars Explained (3 mins long):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQRu4syxP48

Why Boba Fett is So Important to The Mandalorian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6VHWKHoLK8 - from the Star Wars Explained YouTube channel (10 mins long).

In addition to a brief summary of Boba Fett’s canon history there’s a lot of interesting speculations (starting at 5:02) about where the character might be headed in the future and how it does and will tie in with Din’s character arc in The Mandalorian.

Rodney-2187 said:

Could it be just the natural lighting that make everything look less appealing to some?

Yes I think the overall brightness of the episode has caused two reactions in people. First of all SW doesn’t tend to look like that. Yes there’s been sunny settings like Cloud City, Endor & Naboo, but there’s clearly something about Rodriguez’s style, the colour grading or maybe simply the look of digital photography that made it stand out in this episode. Secondly, sunny exteriors are always to be avoided when relying on CG effects, especially when dealing with TV budgets. If you look closely, all of the things I mentioned above have been done in this series before, but it’s been done sparingly and quite often hidden in dark or grey lighting. The more hard directional lighting a scene have the better CG usually looks. The moment people try to add add even lighting it usually fails unless the budget is big enough to pull of a highly detailed CG character. It also has a lot to do with genre. Something like the Avengers movies have so much CG that people have been numbed to it, while SW still carries that old-school style to it. This show especially has deliberately used CG fairly sparingly opting to do things practically when possible, so all CG stands out so much more. And from even just the few Rodriguez films I’ve seen he clearly doesn’t shy away from CG.

Mocata said:

It’s also kinda weird to me after seeing troopers looking so dirty that Moff Gideon has a nice fresh legion at his command.

Maybe the dirty ones where just Herzog’s Navarro stormtroopers and Gideon has much better resources? Either that, or Gideon and Thrawn’s other allies (I’m assuming they work together) has been regaining a lot of power over the course of the last two seasons.

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

• https://youtu.be/QOzbm6jvhWw?t=19 A bit nitpicky compared to the previous bit perhaps, but the impact is so strong that his armor practically explodes. Not really a bad thing overall, with alongside the rest of the scene, and how action has been treated previously on the show, this seemed really over the top to me.

Stormtrooper armor shattering from blunt impact was established back in Rogue One. Though admittedly it was done a bit subtler there.

Oh, sure, and the same also happens during the Armorer fight scene in season 1, but Boba Fett’s gaffi stick seems to hit them with the power of a shotgun.

Cthulhunicron said:

Kinda surprised to see so many complaints about the directing and effects. I thought everything looked fine. I even found myself wishing the action in the prequels had been directed this well.

Well, just a few examples of some of the wonky CG in this episode;

• https://youtu.be/QOzbm6jvhWw The way the stormtrooper falls against the two rocks looks really weird. First off, it’s obviously a full CG body. Secondly there’s proper stop in his momentum as he hits the rock and then he practically bounces off it as if it was soft and then falls cartoonishly fast onto the ground. What I think they’ve done is simply rotate the CG figure on its axis to save time. It almost like his center of gravity is in his head.
• https://youtu.be/QOzbm6jvhWw?t=19 A bit nitpicky compared to the previous bit perhaps, but the impact is so strong that his armor practically explodes. Not really a bad thing overall, with alongside the rest of the scene, and how action has been treated previously on the show, this seemed really over the top to me.
• I couldn’t find a video of it, but when the stormtrooper retreat into the two shuttles it’s painfully obvious that they all become CG the moment they jump up on the ramp. The animation is odd and feels like something from TV shows ten years ago or more.

Now there have been previous moments in this show where characters were replaced with CG, one of the more obvious examples was when Bo-Katan open the cargo aby hatch on the Gozanti cruiser in Chapter 11 and everyone got sucked out. But they clearly knew that it would all happen so fast that you wouldn’t really notice it unless you were looking for it. But shots like the one in the first example just feel so egregious to me because its so right in your face and there’s been no attempt to hide it. And it’s a real shame to because the action in the show has generally been quite excellent, and I like the overall feel of the Boba Fett gaffi stick fight, but I don’t see why these unrealistic CG effects had to be added. It would have looked more brutal if the stormtooper simply smacked into the rock and slid off, there really was no reason for him to awkwardly bounce off it in such a sped up manner.

Maybe I’m just the kind of person that pays more attention to this kind of stuff, but to me at least, and clearly many others, these CG moments really stuck out like a sore thumb. The idea was good, but the execution felt off. I don’t know if the change in director was the main culprit here, but since its all so Rodriguez-esque anyway, it probably was. I think it simply was a case of the stuntmen not being given enough time to prepare and in the end they had to quickly solve much of it with CG. Fight choreography takes a lot of time, and if Rodriguez decided to improvise a lot of it then there’s only so much the stunt team can accomplish on a short notice. F.ex. the fight scene in Chapter 8 with the Armorer and the stormtroopers wasn’t even shot by Taika Waititi, but by Filoni who did second unit duty to make sure everything was done on time. And since Waititi could focus on the rest of the episode Filoni and the stunt team could focus on getting just the fight scene right. Stuntwoman Lauren Mary Kim even said that they shot the whole thing hundreds of times to get it right, which Waititi never would have had time to do shooting the whole episode during what I’d assume was only a few weeks (at least that’s what used to be normal for TV series).

Anyway, those are my observations and “theories” about the stunts/choreography in the latest episode and I’m curious to read what other people think.

RogueLeader said:

Also, why did we get such a null reaction from Din when Grogu was kidnapped? I would have expected a more dramatic, upset response. Him desperate to chase after them, “no, this can’t be happening”, him falling to his knees in the ashes of his ship. Instead, he’s making small talk to Cara in the following scene. They’re trying to build up this father/son relationship between them, but a dad wouldn’t have acted so calmly after their child is literally kidnapped.

That seems rather melodramatic for a stoic Mandalorian doesn’t it? I think the main reason Din doesn’t seem to have much emotions is simply due to him not showing his face. It’s a pretty unusual choice for a main character, and I think it’s throwing people off. I’m actually quite impressed by how much nuance Pascal has managed to convey through simply his voice so far in the show, though, as far as the latest episode is concerned, I think the director replacements might have rushed the performance, so you get a double underwhelming effect.

RogueLeader said:

It is starting to feel like Filoni and Favreau are just playing with Star Wars action figures, rather than writing interesting characters. That is great if you accept that’s all the show is, but I would just like to see stronger storytelling from this show. I want it to not just be a good Star Wars show, but a good show in its own right.

I think that’s a bit harsh. If anything I think the growing relations ship between Din and Grogu has been handled really well, as has Din’s change in personality. Though, again, we can’t see his face so its really dependent on what he does and says as there’s no facial expressions to read. I also think Favreau has done an excellent job at choosing subject matter and supporting characters that all mirror or contrast with Din in some way to make it all tie in to his growth as a character. Now SW is obviously meant to have that serial feel to it, so much of it is intentional, but “playing with action figures” implies that everything is random, and I would argue that hardly anything has been truly random so far. Weather its Cobb Vanth, Bo-Katan or even Boba Fett, even though these character all have a fan-service appeal, they’ve all tied into the story in some important way, regarding either Din’s quest or Din’s fanaticism to the creed.

I do agree that some of it has felt a little rushed though, so I do maintain that Favreau probably write less per season and rather stick to outlines and have someone else take the load off of him. I appreciate him keeping control of the overall story, but I don’t think it’d be a problem for him to outline a few more episodes and instead focus on writing just a few episodes entirely on his own.

ZkinandBonez said:

Revenge Of The Jedi - 1982 UK Teaser Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAW1E3JIQZE - from the official Oscars YouTube channel (35 sec long)

The blurb:
“The Academy Film Archive holds several trailers from the United States with the initial ‘Revenge’ title, most of which announcing a May 25th 1983 release date which coincided with the anniversary of the original Star Wars stateside release in 1977. However, this peculiar and very brief Revenge of the Jedi teaser trailer originated from a cinema in the United Kingdom, where the film was originally being considered for a Christmas 1983 release. This rare teaser, preserved by the Academy Film Archive, was apparently shown with the U.K.’s May 1982 double feature re-release of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. American audiences would not get a glimpse of the third film until Star Wars was re-released in the U.S. in August 1982, meaning that this may be the earliest Revenge trailer distributed – and fans from across the pond got the first peek!”

I had no idea that this trailer, which I posted earlier this year, had a lost and found story behind it.

I’ve added the following video as a bonus to the original post.

The Lost & Found “Revenge” of the Jedi Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIFQQYAKK4 - from the That Junkman YouTube channel (6 mins long)

"In 1982 a teaser trailer for Star Wars Revenge of the Jedi come to the UK and was lost and forgotten about until 2016!

jedi_bendu said:

I like that they let directors bring their own visual style to the show. The way the combat scenes are shot are much more visceral than we’re used to - I wouldn’t go for canted angles and slow motion moments every episode, but I thought it worked beautifully in this one. It’s just a one-off.

This is the great thing about having a live action show like this - one week we get slow pacing, atmospheric build-up, and Samurai film style scenes, the next we get exaggerated gunfight action. I see lots of people online losing their minds at how much they enjoyed Chapter 14, and some who say it wasn’t for them, and that’s fine. There’s something for everyone. It’ll never get dull.

I agree, but to me this episode felt like it deviated from the established norm and overall quality of the previous episodes too much. But that’s just a minor nitpick. My biggest complaint really is the cheap looking CG. The Fett fighting choreography was great, but the scene as a whole just felt rushed to me.

It might sound odd, but the whole episode seemed to jump back and forth from being too stylized and not having a style at all. If Rodrigues had had more prep time I think it could have been a much more visually impressive episode.

In my opinion the whole visual aesthetic felt off compared to the rest of the show. The CG especially looked really bad at times, while the show as a whole has done pretty well so far.

Rodrigues exaggerated style also felt a litt odd for SW, though this isn’t a quality issue, just a potential tonal one.

darth-gary said:

Overall I liked the episode, but…
I lol’d when Fennec showed her hydraulic mid-section that Boba apparently made for her. Reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeYpkz8fjfc

The first thing that popped into my mind was this scene from Star Trek TOS (especially the CG “remastered” version, but couldn’t find a clip of that); https://youtu.be/zLR2CD8zWtk?t=118