YanniD

I thought Harmy was only rendering SWD at 720p, which is why the mkv is better as it can retain 24fps:  going to official Bluray at 720p means it must be 720p60 and therefore have frame repeats that introduce judder.

If I am mistaken and Harmy intends to render at 1080p24 for Bluray, even though I thought most of his modified source is 720p, then the Bluray will be a substantially larger download for no increase in detail and thus I would still prefer a 720p24 mkv.

Happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood anything.

As suggested months ago, if you decide to release the mkv, perhaps do it with a few basic soundtracks that are not likely to change and then release the other soundtracks separately as they become available:  it's really simple to mux additional soundtracks with mkvmerge and the consumer has total control over which soundtracks they want to download and incorporate, plus it means the mkv can be released sooner instead of being held up by other things.

I highly recommend releasing extras in the same way:  it makes it easier waiting for the final BD.

I may not even grab the BD if all the material is available as mkv:  menus are nice and all, but not really necessary to enjoy the most important aspect of this work (the content).

As far as soundtrack encoding:  TrueHD should have an accompanying DD track for legacy system support, whilst DTS-HD (MA) is based on a DTS core that can be used for legacy systems.  DTS is often less well supported in playback systems than DD due to licensing issues.  My understanding is that DD 640 should be effectively equivalent to DTS 1536.

Jetrell Fo said:

YanniD said:

Any chance the BD can be uploaded to usenet and/or filesharing?

What you might want to ask is if anyone has invites to said place, if you don't have one, so that you can download it.

;)

If you are referring to torrents, I never use them:  that's why I asked about usenet and filesharing (eg rapidshare).

Any chance the BD can be uploaded to usenet and/or filesharing?

Unless the extras are going to be in HD, I still think a separate extras disc is the way to go, as it means the DVD crowd can watch without conversion along with their DVD conversion of v2.x (just one less thing to convert).

Also means quality can be maximised, compared to having to juggle bitrates of all components to fit on a BD-R.

I wish the studios had gone the separate extras route in all cases.

Harmy said:

So, anyway, I was wondering if some of you guys could give me a little advice about rendering (not quite there yet but just want the info) when I'm rendering using x264 and I have the system HDD in my laptop and 1 USB2 HDD and 1 USB3 HDD where should I put what to ensure as fast and smooth a rendering as possible?

You want to put your files on a different physical drive for each step of the process, so that no one step is ever reading and writing at the same time to the same drive (to prevent the wasteful head repositioning that occurs, even with different logical drives on the same physical drive), however it depends where the software puts the temporary files it creates as they will not all be in RAM.

For example, if the encoder creates elementary video, audio and subtitle files and then muxes them together in a later step, you want your source files on a different drive than the elementary files, but the final destination files could be back on the source drive as the final step is only writing and not reading.

I would say you could put your source files on the USB2 drive, since I doubt encoding will be fast enough to require data at greater than USB2 speeds.  Any temporary files could be stored on your system drive and then the final results output to the USB3 drive.

However, if by source files you mean different video and audio files where multiple files must be accessed in parallel, best speed will be from an SSD because no head repositioning is required to read from each file.

Hard drives are best for large files read/written in a linear fashion.

Whilst it would be nice to have a menu driven BD with extras, I personally would much rather have an mkv of the movie with a single lossless soundtrack and all other soundtracks downloadable separately so that I can mux them in as required without having to download more than I need.

In the fullness of time, when Harmy releases the full BD, perhaps he can make available the Bluray structure and supplementary files so that I can simply shoehorn the mkv (converted to m2ts) to match.

I also think any extras should be released on a "bonus" disc.

HD-DVD had a really great feature that allowed external subtitles and even soundtracks to be incorporated into the movie on the primary disc, without them having to be on the primary disc.  I really miss that flexibility with Bluray.

I certainly wish Harmy the best in tackling the weird and wonderful world of Bluray authoring.

Remember guys, this is not an "official" release, it's a fan revisit:  referring to it as an official release might attract official studio attention (and not in a good way).

There has been a lot of argument on forums about teal colour timing of some Bluray releases and how obvious it appears when viewing screengrabs in a browser or desktop.  What is interesting is that, when viewed in a darkened room, like in a cinema, teal-tinted movies do not look as teal as on the desktop.  The reason seems to be that human vision performs a sort of auto-white balance in the absence of any other reference.  Consequently, viewing in a dark environment should result in perception of a teal tinted movie not appearing as teal as with a screengrab on a desktop (where there is usually pure white reference).  In fact I have noticed that viewing tinted material in dark environments actually seems to shift the whole thing towards the chromatic opposite of the tint.  So, perhaps when we see a teal-tinted screengrab and it looks wrong, perhaps the studio actually means for us to see a more golden appearance to the movie in the dark cinema for which it is intended to be viewed.

Whilst it may be perfectly okay to colour match screengrabs of an IB print and the material being worked on, both on a desktop, the final result is supposed to be viewed in a cinema-like environment, so I would hope any decisions on whether the desktop version looks too green or whatever are made in the end environment for which the material is intended.  Indeed, the bonus Bluray disc for "The Hobbit" makes it quite clear that colour grading is performed in a darkened environment, similar to a cinema.

A write-up of the Senator Theater screening of an IB print of Star Wars is quite interesting about colour tinting:

http://savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html

where it talks about "a tiny green shift in the I.B. print, indicating it is actually slightly warmer".

tortugash said:

Hey, Harmy. I see that you're using the GOUT to reinsert the shots that were replaced, but I also read that you have an IB technicolor print of the movie that you're using for a color reference.

I think Harmy only has access to a limited number of frame grabs of an IB technicolor print for reference purposes.

Even if one had a complete IB technicolor print, it would undoubtedly be illegal to make a copy of it without studio permission, just as it is illegal to screen such a copy for an audience without permission.

Harmy said:

Well, actually, the new version of SW will be quite different. I think I'll end up calling it v2.5 or something, as it won't be done from scratch like v2.0 was but it will have enough new/different stuff to be quite a different beast altogether.

If you don't call it v2.1 or v3.0, then the public is going to be confused where the missing versions are inbetween.

Unless you intend to release lots more versions, I would suggest v3.0 fits in well with the scheme so far for major releases as it's more than a bugfix for wonky audio (v2.1 would have been the audio corrected mkv).

Mkv was designed specifically to handle a wide range of codecs, so that conversion is minimised and retention of quality maximised.

The amount of time, effort and money spent on conversion to other more restrictive, proprietary containers and codecs which loses quality and features is mind boggling.

Why not simply obtain a cheap media player that handles mkv and the usual H.264, DD, DTS, sub formats and save a world of pain?

The same applies to storage:  HDD are now cheaper than optical media and more compact.

A WDTV Live + 2TB passport makes a great combination that is almost universally portable.

Really looking forward to seeing v2.1 Harmy SW via this method.

chyron8472 said:

I suppose it is a question related to technical help regarding AVCHDs in general instead of Harmy's edit specifically. Sorry. :p

I may be missing something. but I thought mp4 files generally consist of H.264 video and AAC audio.

IIRC, Harmy AVCHD and mkv video is already H.264, so all you should need to do is convert the desired soundtrack to AAC and mux together with the video into an mp4 container:  much less effort than converting the video.

It may also be possible to use MP3 audio instead of AAC, but I don't have much experience with Apple proprietary formats.

Technical queries should probably be directed to another forum section.

Can anyone suggest what I should look for to obtain the fixed audio track(s) to remux into my original "broken" v2.0 mkv?

So far all I can find is the DVD version with fixed audio, not the soundtracks themselves.

I think someone has done a good job of issuing takedown notices on usenet.

Were ESJ and ROTJ Despecialised ever released as mkv or just AVCHD?  They are also something I am having difficulty finding.

crissrudd4554 said:

Well, I don't really have money for a Bluray player right now so I dont really plan on going in that direction at the moment. But the thing is I need a program or software that will burn the DVD with the tracks. I can't just burn the DVD when the only programs I can really get my hands on at the moment will only incorporate one track. If I need to attempt to run the mkv file through multiAVCHD in order to get it to DVD appropriate quality then fine but I need a program that will burn the movie to a disc with the tracks. Perhaps I'll try converting the movie through multiAVCHD again and then burn it to a DVD with ConvertX. My only thing with ConvertX is when the DVD was finalized the movie was a bit boxy in some areas but maybe if its burning a file thats DVD quality it'll look better. If anyone knows of any good programs that burn DVDs with different audio tracks please let me know. 

There are some really cheap Bluray players (<$100) that do a very serviceable job playing back HD material from optical disc or usb drive.

Burning a DVD is the easiest part:  use Imgburn with ISO/UDF 1.02 format.

The harder part is transcoding:  if you do it yourself, use DVD9 as you won't be able to get the same quality as the DVD5 without Harmy's source and tweaks.  Before there were single programs to do conversion, you had to use multiple freeware programs, but it gave you fine control over the process.  If you can get the mpeg2 video file and the soundtracks, you can mux them together with Ifoedit into a basic DVD structure.  When using 24fps video, you will also need a program to add the pulldown flags.

As someone else suggested, just get the existing DVD5.

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Or we could just:

1: DL the BD-ready file and burn it to disc.

Sure, if you want to wait until it is complete (Harmy doesn't have much experience with menu creation), download soundtracks that perhaps you don't want and run the gauntlet of studio DMCA takedowns that will inevitably result from a polished BD.

crissrudd4554 said:

No I do not want all the tracks. The ConvertX program I used before allowed me to select which tracks I wanted. MultiAVCHD also allowed me to do this however when I used that program it failed during conversion. Also I think if conversion on that program had been successful it would have only converted it to a folder and I would have to use another program to burn the DVD. But that's my problem. I need a program that will burn the movie with the tracks. Nero only converts one track, Toast only converts one track, Burn only converts one track. The only program that i have used that burnt the movie to a DVD with the audio tracks of my choice is ConvertX but the picture quality was a bit boxy in some areas, not the regular quality of an average DVD. I'm not saying the DVD has to be HD but at least the normal quality for a DVD.

Since everything is going Bluray now, wouldn't it be easier to invest in a media player or cheap Bluray player that will at least playback HD from a flashdrive and output at whatever resolution you want?

If you still want a DVD, burn to DVD9 as DVD5 is much too compressed and will produce artifacts.

IIRC DVD is limited to a combined maximum bitrate of 10Mbps for the sum of all tracks:  as you increase the number of audio tracks, the maximum bitrate of the video track must reduce.

Here's a hypothetical plan:

1. Release movie as AVCHD

2. Release movie as mkv with a single soundtrack.

3. Release other soundtracks as synchronised individual files (maybe in multiple formats for each soundtrack).

4. Release extras as individual mkv files.

5. Enthusiasts mux their own soundtrack configuration to mkv with Mkvtoolnix (optionally convert to BD with ClownBD or experiment with basic menus with MultiAVCHD).

6a. Harmy works on his own BD and when happy releases all folders and files (except the video m2ts files) plus a template of conforming video m2ts files.

6b. Enthusiasts augment their mkv files, where required, to match Harmy's template, using Mkvtoolnix.

6c. Enthusiasts convert mkv files to m2ts with ClownBD and rename according to Harmy's template.

6d. Enthusiasts add m2ts files to Harmy's files and folders and voila, a BD complete with menus that should match Harmy's and without having to download a complete BD again.

Stinky-Dinkins said:

And you'd have the same exact re-downloading problem if the MKV was "not quite right," I'm not really sure what the distinction you're making between the MKV and BD-ready DL is in that respect.

I was thinking more about audio and extras changes than the movie video:  having to download a revised BD is more onerous than downloading a modified audio track or extra.

If a BD is ready to go, then fine, but I thought mkv's might provide more time to get a final BD ready without as much time pressure, whilst still giving the enthusiasts the content that they crave.

Harmy is primarily doing this for his own needs and I am appreciative for being able to gain access to the content, so I will be happy with whatever Harmy decides to release.

I personally like the idea of components that an enthusiast can put together however they like.  Making it at least a little challenging helps keep the studios off our backs I think.  Create a shiny BD that looks like a commercial offering and make it easy for anyone to download could attract studio attention.

For me, the only difference between mkv and BD is menus.  As much as I like the idea of menus, it is the content that is most important.

So, if the choice was between mkv now or a later BD (that might still be rushed and have to be modified), my preference would be for mkv.  I don't just mean for the movie, but for the extras as well.

When the dust finally settles and everyone is happy that everything is the best it can be and no more changes required, then perhaps a final BD with menus and all extras can be created when Harmy has time.

Of course I will be happy with whatever Harmy decides to do as he is the one putting in the effort with time constraints and it is much appreciated.  A BD with as many extras as available now and a supplementary disc of extras later is completely acceptable too.

As I said, it is all about getting the content:  there are ways to reformat material for those who prefer simple BD structure instead of mkv (albeit each element would be its own BD).  Plus, given a swag of mkv, it is not that difficult to convert them to m2ts and provide the menu files as a separate download that, altogether, could be burned as a complete BD.

I kinda think too, that releasing something basic where the end user may have to make some effort to get it how they want it, keeps attention off the studios:  if it's released as a complete, beautiful Bluray that looks like a finished commercial product that anyone can easily grab, then perhaps the studios might take notice.

It would be unfortunate to create a finalised 2.1 BD, only to discover that something was not quite right and have to be corrected and then the whole thing completely downloaded again.

My understanding is that Fox still retains the rights to the OT, so it's business as usual as far as getting an unmolested version out to home video.

So, still looking forward to the Harmy Bluray to meet needs in the near future.

My concern is that the studios have massively increased their DMCA takedown process on both file sharing and usenet services recently, so it may be difficult to actually obtain a complete version when Harmy releases it.  I have heard of other material being taken down within minutes of its release.

Chewtobacca said:

There is no DVD-9.  He was talking about converting Harmy's HD version to DVD.  My DVD-5 is on a.b.starwars and (apparently) myspleen.

My apologies:  I was getting confused with the different versions floating around.  It's the AVCHD version that is on a DVD-9, not an mpeg2 DVD version.

crissrudd4554 said:

I believe this has been asked here before but I'll ask anyway. I'm trying to burn the remastered version of Harmy's DeSpecialized edition to DVD but I want to include the audio tracks. Not all of them. Mainly the 1977 5.1 mix, the 1977 mono, 1993 mix, commentary etc. I also want to customly make my chapters so it matches the chapters of the original file. So far the only program I've found thats allowing me to do this is ConvertXtoDVD. The DVD came out okay but its a bit boxy in some areas (quite noticeably in the opening Fox/Lucasfilm credits). Any of you know of any good programs that will allow me to customize the DVD the way I want and still come out good on the DVD? I don't own a Blu-Ray player so I can't make a Blu-Ray disc. Thanx.

I think it has been mentioned elsewhere, but you won't get good results trying to recompress an already compressed mpeg2 file:  Harmy only gets good results because he encodes directly to a target format from a high quality source.

If you already have the DVD9 version, why not keep it at that quality level?

It is possible to reconstitute the DVD9 video with different audio and chapters (as long as the overall size isn't any larger), however it would be complex and a real PITA if you don't have professional software if you want to retain menus.  Here's one way to do it with freeware, ignoring menus, but it may be possible to do it in one step with TsMuxer:

1. Demux the main movie vob files into their component video, audio and subtitle streams with eac3to.

2. Recombine the required video, audio and subtitle streams and add chapter points to create new vob and ifo files with Ifoedit.

Alternatively, if you just want to remove extra audio tracks and retain existing chapter points, use DVDshrink on the movie title of the original DVD9 (although I question why you would do this when it's effectively the same as the original DVD9).

If you are happy to select the desired audio track to play, manually, using the DVD player, without menus, then simply burn this movie-only version to DVD9.

If you want to include any extras, then use DVDshrink to add the movie-only title and then any other titles from the original DVD9.  Because there are no menus, each title will automatically playback in sequence, unless the DVD player has the ability to jump directly to a title.  You might also want to use AddChapter to add a blank chapter at the end of each title (unless it already has one) to make it quicker to jump to the next title with the DVD player's Next button.

If you want menus, the original menus can be modified, but it requires a comprehensive understanding of DVDs and menu structure and IMO is more trouble than it is worth (especially since the audio track menu labels must be altered to match the revised movie).

My suggestion would be to create a movie-only DVD9 with the soundtracks you want, as a complement to the original DVD9.  You would have to use the DVD player audio navigation feature to manually select a different soundtrack than the default first one, but it isn't that problematic.

There have been many low quality video clips of excised scenes from Star Wars available on Youtube and other sites over the years (not sure they are still available).

Perhaps some people viewed them a long time ago and wished they were in the movie, then subsequently confused these clips and their wish with the movie that was ultimately screened.  Anyway, that's one of my theories why people remember a movie differently to how it is now, even without Lucas type revisionism.

I also believe that some people managed to see slightly different versions of movies when they were released for the first time.  I still recall seeing a different scene with the thermite grenade in Abyss when I first saw the movie, compared with any subsequent video release.

I am so grateful to Harmy and others for providing enriching options that the studios refuse to undertake.  They should be applauded for conserving our heritage.

I am disappointed and disturbed by the selfishness and sense of right to deprivation that has crept into a society that has lost its way in elevating the $ to the status of an idol.

Harmy said:

Aren't you guys a bit off topic?

Yes, so I'll bring it back on topic by offering my thanks to Harmy and all the others involved for doing what George Lucas et al won't and giving us the nearest thing yet to the Original version.

The really sad thing is that if Lucas permitted a transfer of the Technicolor print to Bluray, there would be buyers, so marketing is missing an opportunity purely from the hubris of one man.

Star Wars should be a test case of why ownership of an artwork such as film should be transferred to the people, after all costs and a reasonable return on investment are recovered, instead of residing with a single person effectively in-perpetuity.

As a member of the public, I feel held to ransom over the copyright antics of the studios, when each and every film is a collaboration of an army of people.