Warbler

R.I.P. Mr. Baker 😦

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/shock-olympic-quarterfinals-elimination-for-u-s-women-on-penalties-185123109.html

*sigh*

Dek Rollins said:

Warbler said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

Deep Space Nine turned from being episodic to serialized, but I would prefer episodic.

If it has plenty of standalone episodes which don’t tie into the main story arc, then it ain’t serialized. DS9 had plenty of standalone episodes.

they had plenty of standalone episodes in the early seasons, but once the they got to the war with the dominion, it became serialized.

I wouldn’t say the entire show was serialized. There was a progressing story arc, but most of the episodes (even in seasons six and seven) were contained plots. Remember the baseball episode?

ok not all the episodes of the later seasons were serialized but most were.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

2. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

I just believe that everyone needs to change. (granted some more than others)

How do you propose everyone should change?

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Politics/id/2888/page/1259#982439

sorry it took so long, yhwx.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

Deep Space Nine turned from being episodic to serialized, but I would prefer episodic.

If it has plenty of standalone episodes which don’t tie into the main story arc, then it ain’t serialized. DS9 had plenty of standalone episodes.

they had plenty of standalone episodes in the early seasons, but once the they got to the war with the dominion, it became serialized.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Politics/id/2888/page/1255#982048

TV’s Frink said:

Seems unnecessary in a Star Trek thread.

fine, I will post my response to yhwx in the politics thread.

a good and very complex question. I wish to think for a bit, so that I word my response very carefully.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

what is upsetting to me is that we haven’t gotten to the point where skin color of the main protagonist doesn’t matter.

Until all skin colors are equal, we never will.

1. They are equal, we just don’t always treat everyone like they are equal to us.

2. I agree with you, we a ways to go before we reach that point. I think where we disagree is that you think only white people need to change, where as I believe people of all colors need to change(granted historically white people are more to blame than other races).

1. Until all skin colors are treated equally, we never will. Better?

agreed.

2. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

I just believe that everyone needs to change. (granted some more than others)

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

pittrek said:

• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive. NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist.

POLITICS ALERT

I always am amazed at how many white people think they know what minorities should or shouldn’t think about a given subject.

as with any other people, all one can do is try as best he/she can to imagine being in the shoes of the other person. It is not the same as actually being in the other person’s shoes, but it is the best they can.

Saying minorities should or should not care about something is the opposite of trying to imagine being in their shoes. It’s trying to force them into your shoes.

but is that what pittrek did? He just said what he would think about someone if he were a minority. That is hardly trying tp force the minorities into pittrek’s shoes

It’s clear from countless past discussions that you don’t understand the problem here, so I’ll just say “sigh.”

maybe I don’t. Why don’t you at least try to explain it to me. I will try as best I can to keep an open mind about it and listen to you.

I appreciate that, I really do. But we’ve had this discussion numerous times and it always ends the same. I’d rather not this time.

I wish you would change your mind, because I think that until you do and until you make more of an effort in explaining what you are talking about, we will always misunderstand each other.

I have made multiple attempts and it’s always proven fruitless. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing expecting a different result…or something.

sometimes changing the minds of other requires multiple attempts. Please talk to me about this.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

pittrek said:

• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive. NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist.

POLITICS ALERT

I always am amazed at how many white people think they know what minorities should or shouldn’t think about a given subject.

as with any other people, all one can do is try as best he/she can to imagine being in the shoes of the other person. It is not the same as actually being in the other person’s shoes, but it is the best they can.

Saying minorities should or should not care about something is the opposite of trying to imagine being in their shoes. It’s trying to force them into your shoes.

but is that what pittrek did? He just said what he would think about someone if he were a minority. That is hardly trying tp force the minorities into pittrek’s shoes

It’s clear from countless past discussions that you don’t understand the problem here, so I’ll just say “sigh.”

maybe I don’t. Why don’t you at least try to explain it to me. I will try as best I can to keep an open mind about it and listen to you.

I appreciate that, I really do. But we’ve had this discussion numerous times and it always ends the same. I’d rather not this time.

I wish you would change your mind, because I think that until you do and until you make more of an effort in explaining what you are talking about, we will always misunderstand each other.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

what is upsetting to me is that we haven’t gotten to the point where skin color of the main protagonist doesn’t matter.

Until all skin colors are equal, we never will.

1. They are equal, we just don’t always treat everyone like they are equal to us.

2. I agree with you, we a ways to go before we reach that point. I think where we disagree is that you think only white people need to change, where as I believe people of all colors need to change(granted historically white people are more to blame than other races).

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

pittrek said:

• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive. NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist.

POLITICS ALERT

I always am amazed at how many white people think they know what minorities should or shouldn’t think about a given subject.

as with any other people, all one can do is try as best he/she can to imagine being in the shoes of the other person. It is not the same as actually being in the other person’s shoes, but it is the best they can.

Saying minorities should or should not care about something is the opposite of trying to imagine being in their shoes. It’s trying to force them into your shoes.

but is that what pittrek did? He just said what he would think about someone if he were a minority. That is hardly trying tp force the minorities into pittrek’s shoes

It’s clear from countless past discussions that you don’t understand the problem here, so I’ll just say “sigh.”

maybe I don’t. Why don’t you at least try to explain it to me. I will try as best I can to keep an open mind about it and listen to you.

what is upsetting to me is that we haven’t gotten to the point where skin color of the main protagonist doesn’t matter.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

pittrek said:

• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive. NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist.

POLITICS ALERT

I always am amazed at how many white people think they know what minorities should or shouldn’t think about a given subject.

as with any other people, all one can do is try as best he/she can to imagine being in the shoes of the other person. It is not the same as actually being in the other person’s shoes, but it is the best they can.

Saying minorities should or should not care about something is the opposite of trying to imagine being in their shoes. It’s trying to force them into your shoes.

but is that what pittrek did? He just said what he would think about something if he were a minority. That is hardly trying tp force the minorities into pittrek’s shoes

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

And neither will this because…

?

Or think of “Lower Decks” or similar episodes, which explored what life was like for non-senior staff members, which could make for an interesting series.

it makes for an interesting episode, but a whole series based on this? I’m not seeing it.

…it’s only 13 episodes long. I’m still hoping that we’ll at least get different shows every season.

you mean the first season is 13 episodes long, right? So again, would a whole series of “Lower Decks” work?

I’m still hoping that we’ll at least get different shows every season.

what do you mean by different shows every season?

Or the senior staff is wiped out in the first 10 minutes and she’s the highest ranking person on board.

that would explain why wasn’t captain for the first few episodes, but why wouldn’t Starfleet either make her the next captain or find someone else to replace the dead captain? (unless this going to be something like Voyager).

Or a wartime situation. Say, the Romulan War. Deep behind enemy lines, etc.

they’ve already said this is not going to be about the Romulan War.

Forgot about that. Could be Romulans still fighting the war after it’s over. Could be anything.

if the war is over, then they wouldn’t be trapped deep behind enemy lines, and it would be less believable that they wouldn’t replace the dead captain.

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

Think of the Kelvin Timeline as another Mirror Universe. It’s always been there, always been different, it just so happens that our Spock got stuck there.

this may be the official line, but one ignores the official line for moment and just watches Star Trek 09, they will get the idea that Nero traveled back in time and changed history and thereby changed the prime universe into the kelvin universe. Otherwise, how did Spock Prime get into the kelvin universe? I think the movie just makes it look like he went back in time, not from one dimension/universe to another.

People who just watch 09 will be confused, yes. But I’m also sure they’ve heard enough fans bitch about the new timeline that they’ll know what “Prime Universe” means.

They with also be confused by this taken from the plot description of Star 09 on wikipedia:

Kirk encounters an older Spock, who explains that he and Nero are from 129 years in the future.

note: it says “from the future”, not “from an alternate universe”.

As for the lead not being a Captain, there’s a lot of possibilities there. From what I understand, The West Wing started out focusing on everyone but the President.

It didn’t stay that way for long.

And neither will this because…

?

Or think of “Lower Decks” or similar episodes, which explored what life was like for non-senior staff members, which could make for an interesting series.

it makes for an interesting episode, but a whole series based on this? I’m not seeing it.

…it’s only 13 episodes long. I’m still hoping that we’ll at least get different shows every season.

you mean the first season is 13 episodes long, right? So again, would a whole series of “Lower Decks” work?

Or the senior staff is wiped out in the first 10 minutes and she’s the highest ranking person on board.

that would explain why wasn’t captain for the first few episodes, but why wouldn’t Starfleet either make her the next captain or find someone else to replace the dead captain? (unless this going to be something like Voyager).

Or a wartime situation. Say, the Romulan War. Deep behind enemy lines, etc.

they’ve already said this is not going to be about the Romulan War.

TV’s Frink said:

pittrek said:

• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive. NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist.

POLITICS ALERT

I always am amazed at how many white people think they know what minorities should or shouldn’t think about a given subject.

as with any other people, all one can do is try as best he/she can to imagine being in the shoes of the other person. It is not the same as actually being in the other person’s shoes, but it is the best they can do.

pittrek said:

Soooooo…

• a gay character? Sounds OK if they will make it interesting.
• a female lead? Sounds OK if they make her interesting.
• thinking about how “diverse” she should be? If I was “non-white” I would probably find it offensive.

why? what would you be offended about?

NO STAR TREK FAN CARES about the skin colour of the main protagonist. We want a good actress playing a well written character! Thinks like gender / race / sexual orientation should NOT be the “defining attributes” of a character

I don’t remember race being the defining attribute of Sisko or gender being the defining attribute of Janeway.

• making it serialized instead of episodic - I don’t know what to think yet. The Star Trek format has been always episodic,

Deep Space Nine turned from being episodic to serialized, but I would prefer episodic.

• forcing me to get Netflix ONLY for this - I hate you for this.

ditto.

doubleofive said:

Think of the Kelvin Timeline as another Mirror Universe. It’s always been there, always been different, it just so happens that our Spock got stuck there.

this may be the official line, but one ignores the official line for moment and just watches Star Trek 09, they will get the idea that Nero traveled back in time and changed history and thereby changed the prime universe into the kelvin universe. Otherwise, how did Spock Prime get into the kelvin universe? I think the movie just makes it look like he went back in time, not from one dimension/universe to another.

As for the lead not being a Captain, there’s a lot of possibilities there. From what I understand, The West Wing started out focusing on everyone but the President.

It didn’t stay that way for long.

Or think of “Lower Decks” or similar episodes, which explored what life was like for non-senior staff members, which could make for an interesting series.

it makes for an interesting episode, but a whole series based on this? I’m not seeing it.

Or the senior staff is wiped out in the first 10 minutes and she’s the highest ranking person on board.

that would explain why wasn’t captain for the first few episodes, but why wouldn’t Starfleet either make her the next captain or find someone else to replace the dead captain? (unless this going to be something like Voyager).

TV’s Frink said:

doubleofive said:

From what I understand, The West Wing started out focusing on everyone but the President.

Jeez, spoiler alert!

Just kidding, but for reals I am only two episodes in…

it is a great series until the 5th season, it jumped the shark there.

I guess I am wrong then, but Star Trek 09 sure makes it look like the original universe turned in the Universe of the new movies.

Dek Rollins said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

New details on Discovery. Set 10 years before TOS!
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-gay-character-cbs-all-access-1201835052/

yeah, I got a bad feeling about that show. I think it is a mistake to have it in the original universe.

1. that universe no longer exists due to the events in Star Trek 09. Therefore, they are technically doing a whole series that never happened.

That’s like telling someone they shouldn’t watch TNG because it never happened according to the J-brams films.

There is a difference between a show set in a universe that ceases to exist due to something made after the show and show that takes place in a universe that already has ceased to exist due to something made before the show.

The original universe still exists. That’s why the current film series timeline was given a specified name. There are two alternate timelines existing in ST cannon.

EDIT: I guess I typed to slow…

Warbler said:

That is not my understanding of things. I thought that the events in Star Trek 09 changed history and turned the Prime Universe into the Universe of the new movies.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

that universe no longer exists due to the events in Star Trek 09. Therefore, they are technically doing a whole series that never happened.

The Prime Universe and Kelvin Timeline are two separate, co-existing universes.

That is not my understanding of things. I thought that the events in Star Trek 09 changed history and turned the Prime Universe into the Universe of the new movies.

SilverWook said:

New details on Discovery. Set 10 years before TOS!
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-gay-character-cbs-all-access-1201835052/

yeah, I got a bad feeling about that show. I think it is a mistake to have it in the original universe.

1. that universe no longer exists due to the events in Star Trek 09. Therefore, they are technically doing a whole series that never happened.

2. I think it will confuse people who are not fully into Star Trek yet. This this will especially happen if they do what they are planing in the 2nd season(have interaction with TOS characters).

The lead not being a Captain? how is that going to work? If she is in command of the Starship, how will they explain the lack of the Captain rank? If someone else is the Captain, just how will it work with the lead being the first officer?

and again, I still think it is a mistake to not have this on regular network tv.