yhwx said:

I’m not sure of how good of a poll Public Policy Polling is, but this is a stunning result.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/08/trump-holds-steady-after-charlottesville-supporters-think-whites-christians-face-discrimination.html

Asked what racial group they think faces the most discrimination in America, 45% of Trump voters say it’s white people followed by 17% for Native Americans with 16% picking African Americans, and 5% picking Latinos. Asked what religious group they think faces the most discrimination in America, 54% of Trump voters says it’s Christians followed by 22% for Muslims and 12% for Jews. There is a mindset among many Trump voters that it’s whites and Christians getting trampled on in America that makes it unlikely they would abandon Trump over his “both sides” rhetoric.

Overall 89% of Americans have a negative opinion of neo-Nazis to 3% with a positive one, and 87% have an unfavorable opinion of white supremacists to 4% with a positive one. Just 11% agree with the sentiment that it’s possible for white supremacists and neo-Nazis to be ‘very fine people,’ to 69% who say that’s not possible.

How do eight percent of people have no opinion on white supremacists?

Maybe they are white supremacists themselves, yet too afraid to say so?

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

I’m not saying he shouldn’t care about children starving because he’s not starving. I’m saying he shouldn’t bitch about black people being offended by something that they are offended by. There’s a difference.

I don’t think there is.

Well then there’s nothing further to discuss. If you consider that dismissive then so be it.

evidence of bad attitude.

Whatever sigh eyeroll clapping gif etcetera.

¯\(ツ)/¯

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

No I’m asking what evidence in the ESPN thing? A lot of people (not just blacks but let’s say a lot of black people) thought it was offensive and shouldn’t have been done. Warb’s opinion is that those people are wrong, my opinion is that he shouldn’t give that particular opinion. I’m not saying he can’t, I’m saying he shouldn’t. What’s the available evidence in the specific case that caused pages of pointless arguing?

chyron8472 said:

You’re being dismissive. You’re saying because a circumstance doesn’t affect him he shouldn’t give a shit about it, nor should his opinion matter because his knowledge is not informed by first hand experience.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t care about children starving because he’s not starving. I’m saying he shouldn’t bitch about black people being offended by something that they are offended by. There’s a difference.

by you are still being dismissive and saying my opinion doesn’t matter. You are automatically invalidating my opinion.

I love how you get to determine when it is reasonable for people of color to be offended(fantasy auction), and when it isn’t(guy named Robert Lee).

I don’t. Black people do. I just follow their lead.

So if you found a black person that was offend by the reporter being named Robert Lee, you would then agree with what ESPN did with the guy?

come on! You decided it was reasonable to be offended at the fantasy auction but not at the Robert Lee thing. You’ve basically said that any black person that says they’re offended by the reporter being named Robert Lee is an idiot who happens to be black.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

I’m saying that he can have an opinion if he wants to. Being white doesn’t make him incompetent or irrelevant when talking about non-white issues. He might not understand the full scope of the experience, but that doesn’t invalidate his opinion.

I agree with all of this, by the way. He can always have an opinion, and he can talk about non-white issues. I’m white too. I’m saying that if a bunch of black people think something is offensive, it might just be offensive despite the white dude who doesn’t think it’s offensive.

Where did I ever say otherwise?

If there’s any doubt, I’m going to go with the people who have the full scope of the experience.

and that is your choice. In some cases, I might agree, in others I would not. I think I need there to be more doubt than you do.

btw, isn’t possible that the experience could cloud judgment?

the experience can create emotion and make it personal, like in 12 angry men when the last juror had been voting guilty all along due the experiences with his own son.

And as I said, if it’s something ludicrous like Jack Black having to change his name to Jack White, that’s a different story because you aren’t going to find a bunch of black people complaining about that.

and you and only you have the right to say what is and is not ludicrous in these racial things.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

I’m not saying he shouldn’t care about children starving because he’s not starving. I’m saying he shouldn’t bitch about black people being offended by something that they are offended by. There’s a difference.

I don’t think there is.

Well then there’s nothing further to discuss. If you consider that dismissive then so be it.

evidence of bad attitude.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

No I’m asking what evidence in the ESPN thing? A lot of people (not just blacks but let’s say a lot of black people) thought it was offensive and shouldn’t have been done. Warb’s opinion is that those people are wrong, my opinion is that he shouldn’t give that particular opinion. I’m not saying he can’t, I’m saying he shouldn’t. What’s the available evidence that says I’m wrong or that Warb is right?

Your opinion is not contrary to Warbler’s opinion. Your opinion is opposed to Warbler’s opinion itself. You’re opposed to the idea that he has an opinion. Warbler’s opinion being wrong doesn’t make yours right.

Even if his opinion is incorrect, white privilege or not, he should be allowed to have it. And this is an open forum, so as long as he is civil he should be allowed to communicate it.

TV’s Frink said:

No I’m asking what evidence in the ESPN thing? A lot of people (not just blacks but let’s say a lot of black people) thought it was offensive and shouldn’t have been done. Warb’s opinion is that those people are wrong, my opinion is that he shouldn’t give that particular opinion. I’m not saying he can’t, I’m saying he shouldn’t. What’s the available evidence in the specific case that caused pages of pointless arguing?

chyron8472 said:

You’re being dismissive. You’re saying because a circumstance doesn’t affect him he shouldn’t give a shit about it, nor should his opinion matter because his knowledge is not informed by first hand experience.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t care about children starving because he’s not starving. I’m saying he shouldn’t bitch about black people being offended by something that they are offended by. There’s a difference.

by you are still being dismissive and saying my opinion doesn’t matter. You are automatically invalidating my opinion.

I love how you get to determine when it is reasonable for people of color to be offended(fantasy auction), and when it isn’t(guy named Robert Lee).

what?

and yes, I know what 😉 means.

TV’s Frink said:

You shouldn’t use terms you don’t understand.

You shouldn’t complain about the term being too long to say when people of color are in constant fear of being beat by the police.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

This all happened because of the ESPN fantasy football auction thing. What “available evidence” are you talking about?

This is my evidence:

TV’s Frink said:

If I think our skin color precludes us from the ability to have an informed opinion on something that doesn’t affect us in the slightest, who gives a shit?

This is my evidence, along with the fact that you keep using the term “white privilege.” The existence of white privilege isn’t Warbler’s issue with you using it. You’re being dismissive. You’re saying because a circumstance doesn’t affect him he shouldn’t give a shit about it, nor should his opinion matter because his knowledge is not informed by first hand experience.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

If I think our skin color precludes us from the ability to have an informed opinion on something that doesn’t affect us in the slightest, who gives a shit?

Warbler said:

When I have to put up with you criticism and your attitude, I do.

I agree with Warbler. I think it’s rude to tell someone their argument is inherently ignorant and automatically invalid. Yes, people in a majority culture might not have first-hand experience regarding issues or situations a minority culture may face, but that doesn’t mean they can’t still form nor communicate an opinion based on available evidence provided to them on the subject.

Being dismissive of someone’s opinion just because they have second or third hand evidence rather than first hand is just as wrong as someone with said third hand evidence assuming they’re a foremost authority on the subject.

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warb, should we call the group we’ve been talking about blacks or African Americans?

I suppose African American is the preferred term. If you want me to cease using the term black, I will.

No. From what I have heard and have been told, there isn’t really any agreement on the preferred term. Some people want to be called black, some African American. Who is right?

I’ve hard that “person of color” is becoming the “woke” term now-a-days.

Takes too long to say. 😉

white privilege.

TV’s Frink said:

To pretty much everything Warb has been saying:

¯\(ツ)/¯

I give up.

*sigh*

I am honestly shocked that you two thought it went too far, I thought for sure you two were going to defend what ESPN did.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warb, should we call the group we’ve been talking about blacks or African Americans?

I suppose African American is the preferred term. If you want me to cease using the term black, I will.

No. From what I have heard and have been told, there isn’t really any agreement on the preferred term. Some people want to be called black, some African American. Who is right?

I’ve hard that “person of color” is becoming the “woke” term now-a-days.

The “woke” term?

http://woke.urbanup.com/8283309#.WZ3j6Nwdndw.twitter

oh.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

You cannot seem to understand for some reason that you can’t keep making these inflexible rules that you want to fit the entire world into for every situation.

sorry for being logical and literal.

The world isn’t logical and literal. I’m sure this board attracts people who want to think so, but the world is complex. Everything doesn’t fit into a simple grid. There are curves and blurred lines. The world isn’t perfect–and it will never be. That’s by design*.

¯\(ツ)/¯

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warb, should we call the group we’ve been talking about blacks or African Americans?

I suppose African American is the preferred term. If you want me to cease using the term black, I will.

No. From what I have heard and have been told, there isn’t really any agreement on the preferred term. Some people want to be called black, some African American. Who is right?

I’ve hard that “person of color” is becoming the “woke” term now-a-days.

The “woke” term? But yes, it does seem like “person of color” is becoming more and more popular to use.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

You have a real bizarre sense of what it means to attack someone’s skin color.

wait, I attacked someone’s skin color in my post about Frevious?

What?

You’re saying I’m attacking your skin color. I’m doing nothing of the sort. If I said you were too dumb to be a scientist because you’re white, that’s attacking your skin color. Pointing out white privilege is not attacking skin color, but of course you don’t understand white privilege anyway so I don’t know what I expect anything different at this point.

attacking is term sometimes used in describing how one refutes an argument. Instead of attacking my arguments, you attacked my skin color.

Well then you shouldn’t take it so personally if I’m just refuting an argument and not attacking you personally.

You did attack me personally.

If I think our skin color precludes us from the ability to have an informed opinion on something that doesn’t affect us in the slightest, who gives a shit?

When I have to put up with you criticism and your attitude, I do.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Warbler said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

To be clear I am just randomly quoting this exchange from 5-days ago in this same thread, it is not intended to make any ironic comment on recent posts…

Warbler said:

generalfrevious said:
We do not live in normal times. The truth right now is sickening. Do you even fucking know what happened last week?!? White supremacists control this country. THAT IS A FACT. President trump is becoming more authoritarian and more unhinged on an hourly basis now. Of the forty-four previous administrations, WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ANTHING THIS TERRIBLE come from our president. Instead of trying to shut me up, tell how I’m wrong according to your delusional mind.

WOULD THE MODS PLEASE BAN THIS FUCKING ASSHOLE‽‽‽‽

If he is not banned, I am very tempted to break a few rules of this place and cause quite a disturbance in protest!

I don’t get your point.

Newsflash! Anti fascist demonstrators in Charlottesville call for the US Government to: “Ban these f*king a**hole Nazi’s from protesting”. An anti fascist spokesperson was quoted as saying “If the Nazis are not banned from America, we are very tempted to break a few windows in this city and cause quite a disturbance in protest!”

someone actually said that?

In any case, yes I lost my temper and threatened to break the forum rules if Frevious wasn’t banned. There is a big difference between violating forum rules(non-violent and not illegal), and assaulting nazis who are peacefully protesting(violent and illegal).

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

You have a real bizarre sense of what it means to attack someone’s skin color.

wait, I attacked someone’s skin color in my post about Frevious?

What?

You’re saying I’m attacking your skin color. I’m doing nothing of the sort. If I said you were too dumb to be a scientist because you’re white, that’s attacking your skin color. Pointing out white privilege is not attacking skin color, but of course you don’t understand white privilege anyway so I don’t know what I expect anything different at this point.

attacking is term sometimes used in describing how one refutes an argument. Instead of attacking my arguments, you attacked my skin color.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warb, should we call the group we’ve been talking about blacks or African Americans?

I suppose African American is the preferred term. If you want me to cease using the term black, I will.

No. From what I have heard and have been told, there isn’t really any agreement on the preferred term. Some people want to be called black, some African American. Who is right?

I don’t know, you tell me. But I have use some term when describing that group of people

Put another way, why isn’t it ok for you to say the n-word?

Because it was how slave masters, the overseers and bigots used to refer to African Americans/black people. What Roots. It told me all I needed to know about that word. It is dirty disgusting racist word. White people should never use it. I don’t think anyone should, but I know we disagree there.

TV’s Frink said:

You have a real bizarre sense of what it means to attack someone’s skin color.

wait, I attacked someone’s skin color in my post about Frevious?

Ryan McAvoy said:

To be clear I am just randomly quoting this exchange from 5-days ago in this same thread, it is not intended to make any ironic comment on recent posts…

Warbler said:

generalfrevious said:
We do not live in normal times. The truth right now is sickening. Do you even fucking know what happened last week?!? White supremacists control this country. THAT IS A FACT. President trump is becoming more authoritarian and more unhinged on an hourly basis now. Of the forty-four previous administrations, WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ANTHING THIS TERRIBLE come from our president. Instead of trying to shut me up, tell how I’m wrong according to your delusional mind.

WOULD THE MODS PLEASE BAN THIS FUCKING ASSHOLE‽‽‽‽

If he is not banned, I am very tempted to break a few rules of this place and cause quite a disturbance in protest!

I don’t get your point.

TV’s Frink said:

Warb, should we call the group we’ve been talking about blacks or African Americans?

I suppose African American is the preferred term. If you want me to cease using the term black, I will.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I think it is wrong to treat me like some sort of clueless jackass due to my race. I wish you’d knock that off.

I don’t treat you that way. Show me some posts where I did that.

TV’s Frink said:

Goddamn there sure are a lot of oppressed white males in this thread.

If the worst thing that has happened to you is someone thinks you’re racist because you’re white, you’re living a pretty good life.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

I guess the only way to fix this is to give the NAACP all the rights to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary and then they can “correct” all the definition of words therein.

Also not how anything works.

It sure seems like certain black people think only black people can define what words mean.

TV’s Frink said:

Holy shit dude.

Beat me to it.

well, do I get decide to define color blind, as treating people equally without regard to the color of their skin? Nope.

Do I get to decide that thug doesn’t mean anything racially? nope.

Do I get to decide that a white homeless guy isn’t privileged? nope.

But black people can decide the opposite. That seems to be the way thing work.

White privilege.

take white privilege and shove it up your ass

I am honestly sick and tired of this shit from you. It seems to be your “go to” for everything in these racial discussions.

It’s only my go to because you keep displaying it.

Why do you care so much that you aren’t allowed to say certain words because you’re white? Because you’re white, you can’t say the n-word. Meanwhile, because other people are black, they can’t assume they won’t get pulled over by the police because they are black. That’s the very definition of white privilege. The worst thing you have to deal with because you are white is not getting to decide what “thug” means. Get over it.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

In other racial news…

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/15/espn-apology-fantasy-football-auction

Yikes. Great timing.

Is this really that big of a deal? They weren’t selling black people, they were doing a FANTASY auction of football players. It also included white players. According to the article you linked too, auctions are common in fantasy football.

"Auction drafts are a common part of fantasy football, and ESPN’s segments replicated an auction draft with a diverse slate of top professional football players. Without that context, we understand the optics could be portrayed as offensive, and we apologize,” ESPN said in a statement to USA TODAY Sports.

I’ve done Fantasy for many years now and this story proves that if someone does something as simple as taking something out of context, they’ll get offended real quick.

Just once I wish you guys could admit that maybe just maybe black people could have an issue with something that you guys don’t.

Just once I wish that you guys could admit that "maybe just maybe* just because some black people have an issue with something, doesn’t automatically make it a valid complaint.

Ok, good to know. Please be sure to let black people know each time what they are allowed to have an issue with, so they can stop making the same mistake of being offended by things that white people know they shouldn’t be offended by.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

In other racial news…

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/15/espn-apology-fantasy-football-auction

Yikes. Great timing.

Is this really that big of a deal? They weren’t selling black people, they were doing a FANTASY auction of football players. It also included white players. According to the article you linked too, auctions are common in fantasy football.

"Auction drafts are a common part of fantasy football, and ESPN’s segments replicated an auction draft with a diverse slate of top professional football players. Without that context, we understand the optics could be portrayed as offensive, and we apologize,” ESPN said in a statement to USA TODAY Sports.

I’ve done Fantasy for many years now and this story proves that if someone does something as simple as taking something out of context, they’ll get offended real quick.

Just once I wish you guys could admit that maybe just maybe black people could have an issue with something that you guys don’t.

Just once I wish that you guys could admit that "maybe just maybe* just because some black people have an issue with something, doesn’t automatically make it a valid complaint.

Ok, good to know. Please be sure to let black people know each time what they are allowed to have an issue with, so they can stop making the same mistake of being offended.

*sigh*

Fact: People sometimes get offended at things that aren’t reasonable to be offended over.

Once again, thanks for clarifying that for black people. I’m sure they feel much better now.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I am sure if tree falls and no one is around, it still makes a noise. But obviously, if no one was around, no one heard the noise.

Ah ok so it’s ok to lecture black people as long as they aren’t listening.

All I am saying that I ought to be able to give my opinion on these things without being raked through the coals just because of my skin color.

Oh hi there white privilege, nice to see you again.

TV’s Frink said:

The color of your skin matters. If everything were equal, it wouldn’t matter, but it isn’t so it doesn’t.

If the worst thing your skin color has brought you is flak when you criticize black people, consider yourself lucky. Or continue to cling to the white privilege that is so important to you, despite the fact that it doesn’t matter in the slightest.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I am sure if tree falls and no one is around, it still makes a noise. But obviously, if no one was around, no one heard the noise.

Ah ok so it’s ok to lecture black people as long as they aren’t listening.

All I am saying that I ought to be able to give my opinion on these things without being raked through the coals just because of my skin color.

Oh hi there white privilege, nice to see you again.

ah the answer that justifies all bigotry towards white people, including from some that are white themselves.

fixed.

Sounds about right.

I find it funny that Frink’s only response in any race argument is to devalue your opinion because of your skin color rather than address your opinion directly.

I find it funny that you are all so worried about bigotry toward white people. not that such a thing can’t or doesn’t exist, it does. but i don’t think you have shown any legit examples of it.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I am sure if tree falls and no one is around, it still makes a noise. But obviously, if no one was around, no one heard the noise.

Ah ok so it’s ok to lecture black people as long as they aren’t listening.

All I am saying that I ought to be able to give my opinion on these things without being raked through the coals just because of my skin color.

Oh hi there white privilege, nice to see you again.

That’s bigotry?

Hahahaha.

quit lecturing and policing my opinions.

As soon as you learn what bigotry is.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I am sure if tree falls and no one is around, it still makes a noise. But obviously, if no one was around, no one heard the noise.

Ah ok so it’s ok to lecture black people as long as they aren’t listening.

All I am saying that I ought to be able to give my opinion on these things without being raked through the coals just because of my skin color.

Oh hi there white privilege, nice to see you again.

ah the answer that justifies all bigotry towards white people, including from some that are white themselves.

fixed.

Sounds about right.

I find it funny that Frink’s only response in any race argument is to devalue your opinion because of your skin color rather than address your opinion directly.

I find it funny that you are all so worried about bigotry toward white people. not that such a thing can’t or doesn’t exist, it does. but i don’t think you have shown any legit examples of it.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

I am sure if tree falls and no one is around, it still makes a noise. But obviously, if no one was around, no one heard the noise.

Ah ok so it’s ok to lecture black people as long as they aren’t listening.

All I am saying that I ought to be able to give my opinion on these things without being raked through the coals just because of my skin color.

Oh hi there white privilege, nice to see you again.

That’s bigotry?

Hahahaha.

quit lecturing and policing my opinions.

As soon as you learn what bigotry is.

I know what bigotry is.

Clearly you don’t. If you did, you’d know that pointing out white privilege is not bigotry.

I could find others if I wanted to go deeper into the past. Also, this doesn’t include the times when you thought I was so clueless and white that it wasn’t worth your time talking to me about the issues.

Lets face it, when it comes to race issues you think I am clueless jackass and one of the reasons you think this, is because I am white.

I don’t think you’re a jackass. I think you are clueless on this issue, but you aren’t clueless because you are white. Plenty of white people understand what you do not.

So nice try but no sale.

Would you think I was clueless on the issue if I said everything I said, exactly the same, word for word, but I was black?

I can’t remember every damn thing you’ve said, but I’d probably be likely to give you more latitude, depending on the issue and situation. And I’ve already answered that anyway with several examples.

thanks for saying that at least part of the reason you think I am clueless has to do with skin color.

You cannot seem to understand for some reason that you can’t keep making these inflexible rules that you want to fit the entire world into for every situation.

sorry for being logical and literal.

And once again, the fact that you would get so upset about not getting to weigh in on an issue affecting black people, because you are white, is the perfect example of white privilege. Who gives a shit? You shouldn’t.

I give sh**t about judgments made against me do to skin color. I give damn about someone I think of as a friend saying hurtful things to me due to my skin color. I give a sh** about someone trying to silence me due to my skin color.

The next time I do something like complain about people complaining about ESPN’s fantasy football draft, how about you attack opinions instead of attacking my skin color. Quit trying to refute my opinions by going “white privilege!”.