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This is more insulting to the United States than kneeling during the anthem.
I agree it is disrespectful. It violates the rules of flag etiquette.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
The raising of awareness for a cause is one of the first and most important steps in the long, slow and difficult road to implementing change. Media suppression or censorship certainly does not help that.
raising awareness in such a shitty way does not inspire me to help them.
People raising awareness in a manner deemed undesirable to you takes prevalence over the cause itself?
…something you hold to be sacred…
But why?
I don’t know how to explain to you why I hold to be sacred what I hold to be sacred.
Meaning you do know why you hold it sacred, but don’t think I’d understand; or you don’t know why you hold it sacred and can’t explain it for that reason?
meaning that I know why I hold it it sacred but I don’t know how to explain it. I especially don’t know how to explain it to someone that grew up in this country but yet still asks these kinds of questions.
I think it’s kind of dumb we play the national anthem at sporting events anyway. Why don’t we do it in movie theaters before the trailers or in restaurants before we eat?
It is just what we do.
This continues to be a ridiculous defense. Slavery is also used to be “just what we do.”
You could even argue it’s disrespectful to the anthem to play it before a meaningless sporting event.
I don’t see how.
It trivializes something as important as the anthem with something as meaningless and hollow as a baseball game.
I don’t see how it trivialized the Anthem, especially when people give it the proper respect when played(removing caps if worn and putting hand on heart and standing at attention.
btw, was game 7 of the World Series last year meaningless and hollow to you?
No, but that’s because I’m irrational about sports, baseball, and the Cubs. Logically I know that sports are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
To me the National Anthem give a chance to stop right before a ballgame and think about things that are relevant in the grand scheme of things.
Once again, since we’re on the subject of disrespecting American symbols, I have to post this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njIhIwSqt-g
and this:
I could only watch a view seconds of that shit, the guy is an asshole.
I think it’s kind of dumb we play the national anthem at sporting events anyway. Why don’t we do it in movie theaters before the trailers or in restaurants before we eat?
It is just what we do.
This continues to be a ridiculous defense. Slavery is also used to be “just what we do.”
You could even argue it’s disrespectful to the anthem to play it before a meaningless sporting event.
I don’t see how.
It trivializes something as important as the anthem with something as meaningless and hollow as a baseball game.
I don’t see how it trivialized the Anthem, especially when people give it the proper respect when played(removing caps if worn and putting hand on heart and standing at attention.
btw, was game 7 of the World Series last year meaningless and hollow to you?
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
The raising of awareness for a cause is one of the first and most important steps in the long, slow and difficult road to implementing change. Media suppression or censorship certainly does not help that.
raising awareness in such a shitty way does not inspire me to help them.
People raising awareness in a manner deemed undesirable to you takes prevalence over the cause itself?
…something you hold to be sacred…
But why?
I don’t know how to explain to you why I hold to be sacred what I hold to be sacred.
Special Edition, not southeast.
?
Duracell made a Special Edition joke - USA SE. You know, like Star Wars SE. xyhw misread it as “southeast USA.”
Since when did Lucas cgi America? I don’t get it.
I think it’s kind of dumb we play the national anthem at sporting events anyway. Why don’t we do it in movie theaters before the trailers or in restaurants before we eat?
It is just what we do. Somehow, I see a difference between a sporting event and the beginning a movie. Playing it in restaurants before we eat would get ridiculous
You could even argue it’s disrespectful to the anthem to play it before a meaningless sporting event.
I don’t see how.
I got a question. Do they play an anthem at UK sporting events?
Yes, at English FA Cup Finals and England international soccer games, as well as other sporting events.
(God Save The Queen is usually played when Great Britain is being represented too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen)
Soctland and Wales have recently been playing their own anthems on occasion.
Scotland is usually ‘Flower Of Scotland’ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anthem_of_Scotland
Wales is usually ‘Land Of My Fathers’ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau
Northern Ireland occasionally plays ‘Londenderry Air’ when it is representing itself - http://www.nationalanthems.info/nie.htm
Ireland (when playing as a united Ireland) - usually plays ‘Ireland’s Call’ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland’s_Call
Weirdly, England doesn’t have a national anthem - though we just play ‘God Save The Queen’
Personally God Save The Queen is a shite outdated anthem and would be better replaced by something more inclusive such as Jerusalem, but am sure not everyone in the UK agrees 😉
Bet you’re glad you asked now mate? 😃
maybe something different like “Jerusalem” should be used for Great Britain, but I think God Save The King/Queen should still be used for England itself.
I believe the overwhelming majority in most countries refuse to burn their nation’s flag. I sure haven’t been witness to the maple leaf going up in flames.
I am sure most people do not burn the flag of their own country, but don’t think it is thought of as being so disrespectful as it is here.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Yes, you do (you as in the American people). It has happened, and will likely happen again.
Yes, I know there are those who don’t give a shit about respect, this country, and those that died for their freedoms, and will do these disrespectful things.
That’s your interpretation.
Yes it is.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Hahahaha. You don’t speak for all Americans. We don’t all do what you demand.
of course no one has to do what I demand, what are you talking about?
I know I don’t speak for all Americans. But you know the drill, when you are at a game and the Anthem is played, you remove your hat(if you are wearing one), put your right hand on your heart and stand at attention. That is just what we do and you know this.
I don’t know why you act like wanting people to show respect to the National Anthem is so unheard of. Its not.
You said “here in America we don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag,” which is demonstrably false.
The overwhelming majority do not. I think you know that disrespecting the National Anthem and burning the flag is considered a lot more disrespectful here than in a lot of other countries.
Special Edition, not southeast.
?
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Yes, you do (you as in the American people). It has happened, and will likely happen again.
Warb lives in the USA SE. All that unpatriotic stuff’s been edited out to conform to the founding fathers’ original vision.
I thought he lives in New Jersey.
I live in South Jersey.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Yes, you do (you as in the American people). It has happened, and will likely happen again.
Warb lives in the USA SE. All that unpatriotic stuff’s been edited out to conform to the founding fathers’ original vision.
*sigh*
I got a question. Do they play an anthem at UK sporting events?
I don’t know.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Yes, you do (you as in the American people). It has happened, and will likely happen again.
Yes, I know there are those who don’t give a shit about respect, this country, and those that died for their freedoms, and will do these disrespectful things. But the overwhelming majority of Americans don’t do these things.
The United States Supreme Court in Texas vs Johnson (1989), and reaffirmed in US vs Eichman (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag. This law is still in place, no?
How many times to I have to say that I agree it is legal and I agree with it being legal? I’ve done it more times than I can count.
The raising of awareness for a cause is one of the first and most important steps in the long, slow and difficult road to implementing change. Media suppression or censorship certainly does not help that.
raising awareness in such a shitty way does not inspire me to help them.
People raising awareness in a manner deemed undesirable to you takes prevalence over the cause itself?
It is called human nature. If someone desecrated something you hold to be sacred, would it inspire you to their cause? I doubt it.
What of those who campaign for a cause yet do not protest in this ‘undesirable’ manner?
I respect them more than those that protest the National Anthem.
Can it not be a case of ‘I back the cause but don’t agree with how they are raising awareness in this way’?
It can I suppose. But again, raising awareness in such a way that I don’t agree with, is not the way to inspire me.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
Hahahaha. You don’t speak for all Americans. We don’t all do what you demand.
of course no one has to do what I demand, what are you talking about?
I know I don’t speak for all Americans. But you know the drill, when you are at a game and the Anthem is played, you remove your hat(if you are wearing one), put your right hand on your heart and stand at attention. That is just what we do and you know this.
I don’t why you act like wanting people to show respect to the National Anthem is so unheard of. Its not.
Personally, I think a football player sitting during the anthem is ineffectual. It’s less effective even than temporarily adding an overlay to your Facebook avatar after a crisis.
If the people who sit want to help the cause for which they protest, they should do so in a way that matters. You can’t show solidarity to the BLM community by sitting unless the camera notices you doing it and the media jumps up and down accordingly. So I think the people who sit should be ignored, because it deflates their method of protest entirely.
It’s similar to how Trump wouldn’t have won the primary had he not been given all the media attention. Just ignore them, and their opinion becomes moot.
A player sitting during the anthem is so ineffectual you think the media should ignore it (instead of jumping up and down accordingly) - so it will deflate their method of protest entirely?
Erm… what?
Well, I’ve been trying to stay out of this one so far, but I think I can translate. I think he’s saying it’s ineffectual in that it doesn’t communicate the message you’re trying to send, not that it doesn’t successfully grab media attention. i.e. the media ruckus becomes about sitting and flags and whatnot, and not about your actual grievances, therefore it’s ineffectual.
I haven’t actually formed an opinion on the concept of media grabbing yet. It does seem to be central to the “Stay Woke” thesis – that unless your reminders that racism and brutality exists are adequately loud and outrageous, your protests will eventually turn into background noise and the media (and therefore the majority) will tune them out, fall back into a slumber, and think everything must be fine now. BLM has embraced this and while they’ve clearly gotten some backlash, the media’s focus on police racism and brutality has definitely been longer and more critical recently than during any recent prior protest movement, and I’d say police racism and brutality is actually much less prevalent today than in the years past when it was barely covered at all. So did BLM succeed with confrontational protest tactics? Or is it the fact that almost every citizen carries around a video camera these days and stuff can’t be explained away as easily as it used to? Or a combination. I really don’t know.
The thing I can’t stand about BLM is how the facts don’t seem to matter. They hear about a white cop shooting a black person, and automatically assume it must be racism and the shooting must be unjustified. No looking at the facts, no reasonable doubt. The cop is guilty until proven innocent in their eyes.
There’s seemingly a fair few assumptions from yourself there (unless you have facts for these claims?).
Just what I see on the news. I see them protesting police shootings all the time and not giving a damn about the evidence. Just take a look at Ferguson. The witnesses conflict with each other and the physical evidence at the scene is inconclusive, yet they still want to crucify Darren Wilson because they are so sure he shot Micheal Brown while he had his hands in the air surrendering.
So a few honest questions as someone who is new to this - in a bid to establish some facts…
Do the people in the BLM think and speak with one voice?
I don’t think they are fully unified under one voice, but there is a loose group.
Are BLM often factually incorrect (if thinking and speaking with one voice)?
not exactly. But I do believe many join these protests without having a firm understands of the facts of the cases they are protesting.
Would it not hurt their own campaign for change if they did not look at the facts (or facts known) beforehand?
it would, but they don’t seem too worried about that.
and then later were proved incorrect, and then repeatedly so - as to do so would surely take away the credibility of the organisation if it were continually proven incorrect, no?
the media doesn’t seem to care too much about proving them incorrect. The media seems to care more about sensationalizing these cases.
Does the BLM have a policy of automatically assuming ‘the cop is guilty until proven innocent’ - and if so where is this policy?
I think they have policy of using any shooting they can use to forward their agenda.
All this is not to say that there isn’t a problem of police brutality and with the how they interact with black people. There well might be. But none of these problems excuse presuming any cop guilty until proven innocent.
Others, especially those around the world (that are allowed to do so) have no qualms protesting against symbols of their own Govt or country when it is failing it’s citizens, or there is an inequality perceived to be taking place with no-little appetite for change.
You are not going to understand this, but America is different. Here you don’t protest the National Anthem or burn the flag.
The raising of awareness for a cause is one of the first and most important steps in the long, slow and difficult road to implementing change. Media suppression or censorship certainly does not help that.
raising awareness in such a shitty way does not inspire me to help them.
Personally, I think a football player sitting during the anthem is ineffectual. It’s less effective even than temporarily adding an overlay to your Facebook avatar after a crisis.
We’re talking about it though, I’d say they were pretty successful.
We’re talking about him sitting. We’re not talking much about police brutality. Case in point.
I talked about it. It’s you guys (mostly Warb) who would rather complain about someone sitting down during a song.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When he tries to get attention for his cause by doing something shitty, it is not going to make me care much for his cause. Besides, I am not the one they are trying to reach. I am just me. I have no power. I have no authority over the cops. Most of the time I vote more liberal anyway.
You have your vote. And your mind. Those can influence others.
and I as I said most of the time, I vote liberal, so I probable already vote they way they would want me to.
and you know it is not just a “*song*”.
Sure, the song represents something. But your fetishization of the national anthem is misguided flag-waving. Why do you care so much about a kneel?
So now it is fetishization to respect the National Anthem? Bullshit.
I definitely do not agree that The Star-Spangled Banner should be relegated to merely a song.
You’re not seeing the Citizen Kane clapping pic here?
?
I definitely do not agree that The Star-Spangled Banner should be relegated to merely a song.
If you were trying to get Muslims to care about your cause, would the first thing you do to get their attention be to burn the Koran? Think that would inspire them to join your cause?