I'm sorry to hear about the news, Ady. Your family will be in my prayers. :(
I haven't read the Manga but I bet it was a source for inspiration for the guy who I borrowed the idea from.
In regards to what some people have said about the original version working better for the narrative since it's from Leia's point of view-- well, I think we don't really get all of Leia's POV in the current version, because we do not have the same emotional investment in Alderaan that she does. When Leia sees Alderaan destroyed, she is thinking about all the people on the planet who are dying-- everyone she grew up with, her whole family is now dead, and so are countless others. Also, Leia is force sensitive, so it's possible that this would make the ordeal even more painful to her. Not saying it definitely would, but I think that we definitely to have it conveyed to the audience just what a big deal the destruction of Alderaan and the genocide of its people is.
I just finished my proof-of-concept video for a revisited Alderaan attack. The basic idea was borrowed from MortenTrailerGuy's video, as is some of the low-res footage (I'm still working on replacing it with higher quality stuff, sadly). Basically, the concept is to give the scene more emotional punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hMOG9qN5rg
I'm currently working on getting a high-res rip of the ion cannon scene from Command & Conquer 4, and I need to re-obtain my Chronicles of Riddick DVD since that was the video source for the destruction footage (and I think using it is a smart idea). Also, there's only limited / temporary sound for now. (methinks it needs more women and children screaming ^_~ )
The only things I can't change right now are Jar Jar Binks (who Adywan put in as a joke since he didn't originally plan on using that shot), and the Bespin footage. If I could have the shot of Bail any way I wanted it, I'd probably flip him and put him where Jar Jar currently is (after removing Jar Jar), since he'd have the audience's attention much better that way. As for the Bespin footage, I think that new mattes and new actors would be preferable, unless of course there's some footage gems out there that could just as easily take those shots' place.
I think it'd be great if we can re-imagine Alderaan's destruction as somethign more dramatic, epic, and emotional. It was always a dramatic scene, but it always felt downplayed at the same time. A whole friggin' planet just died. Billions dead, and we never ever saw any of their faces. I think that this concept is one worth looking further into. Maybe Revisited 4.5 wouldn't be such a bad idea, eh? ^_^
Eh, a bit too straightforward for my taste. I won't disagree with Lucas in that I think Jar Jar needs to have a unique way of talking, it's just that the particular kind of voice, accent and dialogue he gave Jar Jar is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. I want to get away from the baby talk and pseudo ebonics and towards something that's more palatable. I think making him an ego-driven scoundrel works since it leaves the door open for him to act foolish at times, but without having to come across as irritating. He needs to be a quirky, humorous character or he ends up just being a somewhat strange peripheral to the rest of the cast, but that doesn't mean he has to be annoying to the audience.
My goal is to make him be an annoyance to Obi-Wan and Qui Gon, but entertaining for the audience. I think that's what Lucas' original intention for the character was, it's just that he horribly botched it up in execution.
This has probably already been shared in here, but this is a pretty interesting proof of concept for an alternate take on the destruction of Alderaan. Minus the shot of Yoda I think it does manage to hit a much more emotional chord than the original did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R1hgShD1IY&feature=related
If there was a way to actually make this work without having to recycle footage from another SW movie, it might be an interesting idea to play around with for a re-revisited cut of Episode IV. I definitely got the chills seeing people running and hearing their screams as their planet starts breaking apart. Maybe a new effects shot for the planet's explosion would make it more dramatic too, like if we can see the crust cracking from space, have a cut to Leia like in the video above, and then see it all blow apart? The actual destruction footage would be a bit trickier to get ahold of, but it's possible that some cleverly disguised footage from other movies as well as some second unit / new CG / matte shots could do the trick.
Those are going to be very helpful. :)
I'm hoping one of you guys can help me out. I'm on a Mac, and I'm trying to rip The Phantom Menace using DVD Decryptor in my Windows partition, and in my Mac partition I'm using MPEG Streamclip and Premiere. What I'm trying to do is get it so that when I'm finished I'll have 5.1 audio available in Premier, but for some reason it's giving me a hard time. When I export the VOB from MPEG Stream Clip using Save As it plays fine in VLC, but when I import into premier there is no audio attached. I tried using demux to create a seperate audio file, but I've only been able to figure out how to get a stereo audio file out of it so far. I'm kind of flying blind right now, and I could really use some advice on how to make this all work. Thanks in advance!
This thread is sort of a "parking spot" for my projects specifically. I plan on changing the title once my TPM edit goes into production, but for now I'm trying to collect ideas that I specifically want to use in my edit. (And to be frank, that thread's size can be a bit intimidating to navigate!)
Octorox said:
You can't really kill of any of the major characters because the new emotional arcs and endings required for the other characters aren't there. You'd need to shoot a whole new movie. The again, I'm surprised Leia wasn't an emotional wreck for all of ANH after her entire family and planet was wiped away....seriously one minute her life is turned upside down, the next she's making witty banter...
I think you've hit the nail on the head as to why a lot of the more radical ideas just plain don't work. Yeah, there's no harm in it as a "what if" concept, but if you were to actually try to make some of these changes, like killing off a main character or moving the final battle to Couriscant, you would have practically film a new movie just to make it work, and the logistics of that are not very good if the goal is seamless integration. At best I could see such changes being jarring, and ultimately it's the exact kind of thing that we complain about Lucas doing too much.
My general ethos around fan editing is to accept the stories for what they are, and see fan editing as a tool that allows the story to be better told. Outlandish changes can be great if you're willing to accept that they won't be perfect, which is why TMBTM's grindhouse cuts work so well, even though they're drastically different from the original versions. If you're going to try and drastically alter the mythos of the original though, for me that's sort of walking on thin ice. If there's a change that is really necessary and it's possible to do it without breaking the illusion, then I say go for it. If it's a change that does not benefit the story significantly though, and it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief on the audience's part, then I feel like it's probably something better left unchanged.
Whoever coined the phrase "it doesn't have to be a hollywood production" obviously never met you guys. :D
Seriously, this project gets more awesome the more I hear about it.
Star Wars Episode I - The Phantom Menace: Redemption is my attempt to bring some of my favorite edit concepts together into a seamless experience with 5.1 surround sound and improved picture quality, including color correction and contrast adjustment.
This cut will be available in two versions: the canon cut, which will be a more traditional edit along the lines of The Phantom Edit, and the more ambitious standard edition which will borrow some concepts from Magnoliafan’s edit, with the motivations of the Trade Federation re-imagined and most of the annoying characters dubbed over with new voicework. I myself am an animator with some voice acting experience, and I will be recording the voices myself using my school’s sound production equipment. The characters you can expect to hear dubbed over are Jar Jar Binks and all of the gungans, as well as Nute Gunray (although his voice will be quite similar to the original version, since I am dubbing him over for the sole purpose of changing the film’s back story).
The goal of this edit in both forms is to provide a more enjoyable cut of Episode I on all counts that I can manage. I want this to be a disc that you will not feel ashamed of putting on your 50" LCD television due to bad image quality, 2-channel audio, and jarring transitions between edits.
As with The Phantom Edit, Redemption will be focused on trimming away some of the fat of Episode I to make the movie’s pacing feel more energetic, as well as removing as many of Jar Jar Binks’ less flattering moments as plausible, and trying to prevent him from drawing attention to himself when it is not appropriate for the story (which happens A LOT in the original cut). In the original version he was like an adult version of Elmo, not only refusing to embrace proper grammar and diction but also staunchly demanding to be the center of attention at all times. The dubbed version will be even more different, re-imagining Jar Jar as an opportunistic scoundrel rather than an disadvantaged nitwit.
Anakin wil also be getting some minor changes. Most of his more noticeable “childisms” like “Yippee!” are gone, and he no longer apologizes for his competence by constantly saying “oops.” In Redemption, we will see more of the fact that Anakin is very resourceful and intuitive, but is also reckless and a bit stubborn. I feel like as he is presented in this version, his transition into who he becomes in the later films will feel a lot more natural.
Overall, this cut owes a lot to The Phantom Edit, and in the case of the dubbed version Magnoliafan’s edit. I look forward to seeing your feedback when it’s done!
UPDATE the color correction is going along very nicely. I’m currently doing some rotoscoping for a scene that always frustrated me, so that’s taking a while, but you can at least see some preview images below of the progress I’ve made so far. The first shot is the one that involves rotoscoping. The way the lightsaber gets introduced in my cut will hopefully be a bit more exciting than in the official version. Don’t expect a anything crazy, but it will hopefully be a lot more exciting than how they did it in the official version.
The “Canon Cut” will probably be availible a lot sooner than the version with the dubbing, but I’m hoping to make it worth people’s while nonetheless by offering a solid all around edit with significantly better picture quality than the official disc.
Older color correction example
Newer, more refined color correction example:
Could someone PM me a link to the color-corrected Phantom Menace? Preferably for Rapidshare.com since that's what I currently have a 30 day pass for? Thank you!
Bingowings said:
Dialogue free versions of these films would be the Holy Grail for fan editors, but despite bold claims by certain people, it's possibly impossible without all the original audio source material (and then still hard work).
It would make the ambitions of contributors to this thread much more easy to realise.
I just want one that has no voices for Gungans or the Neamodians, because they're the ones who I'm interested in dubbing over. I certainly appreciate some people's devotion in wanting to dub over the entire cast, but for my own personal tastes, I think there is such a thing as going too far.
With my edit, I enjoy the prequels enough that I can respect the story that George Lucas was trying to tell, even though there are certain aspects of if that I dislike (namely, the acting and some of the characters like Jar Jar). Would I have written a drastically different movie? Probably, but then again I would have probably done parts of Lord of the Rings differently, too.
At the end of the day, in my cuts Jar Jar would still be the fool (although hopefully, actually entertaining and somewhat likable), Anakin would still have lots of angst issues, and Yoda would still kick a lot of ass with a lightsaber. The parts that really make me cringe are Jar Jar's voice and some of Hayden's acting and dialogue with Natalie, but these things aren't too difficult to tweak without drastically altering the storyline. Probably the most bold change I would make is to change Count Dooku from being a Sith to being just a rogue Jedi, and hence I would change the color of his lightsaber, but on a technical level it's not that big of a challenge.
I understand that there are plenty of people who have no love for the prequels whatsoever, so for them they are just raw footage in a canister waiting to be edited into something resembling a Star Wars prequel. If that helps them enjoy the Saga more, then more power to 'em. For me though, the movies that came out will always be Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith, and thus the edits I make will be altered versions of those films as opposed to new movies using the same footage.
Ultimately, there are different kinds of cuts for different people. Some people cut because they like a film, and they just want to be able to like it more without some annoyances getting in the way, while with others they make drastic re-imaginings of the films because they hated the original, and are trying to make the film that they wanted to see. There's certainly enough room for both approaches. I just happen to fall into the former category when it comes to the Star Wars prequels, and I feel like a more subtle approach usually yields much more convincing results.
I definitely agree that any 3D in Palpatine's death would have to be very subtle. However, like you said, interactive lighting effects would be one of the big things that makes or breaks the scene.
Maybe if the camera pulled backwards ever so slightly as Palpatine fell it would be enough to hint at this being a 3D space, in addition to making Palpy's fall feel slightly more dramatic in scale?
I know this is more to do with ROTJ than ESB, but since it's on the topic of adding 3D to matte paintings, I've always been very annoyed with how the emperor's death looks--
This shot would look way better if the matte was on a 3D mesh and the camera was given a bit of movement-- not to mention that Palpy's lightning looks like crap, and the explosion at the end could stand to be much better if it were re-done.
Darth Editous said:
PS If they ever get around to processing the damn thing: comparison shot
Hot dog! The difference is like night and day, and it really brings the shot into the 21st century.
I really loved the opening crawl going across the desert sand. I thought it was a great touch that made it feel more like a cheesy sci-fi B-movie than an epic space opera. As Bingo Wings said though, if you could get someone to read it too, that would add an extra layer of delicious cheesiness. :D
Also, RD-D2's subtitles were difficuly to read at times because they would appear on top of a light colored backdrop. Maybe you could fix this by making the subtitles yellow with a black outline?
Also, while I LOVED the use of 70's funk to give the death star escape scene a comedic tone (although the volume was a little too high in some parts), I think I'd consider taking it out during the scene where Obi-Wan dies. Even if this is a cheesy B-movie, I think that schlock!Lucas would have tried to make the scene have some emotional weight, even if the end result was to fail miserably.
Maybe when Obi-Wan dies you should have a montage of all the moments he had with Luke, and then have some sad old song playing behind it? I think that would feel more like an authentic B-movie since it'd show they at least tried to make Obi-Wan's death sad, even if they did it half-assed. It'd also be more consistent with the death of Owen and Beru.
Oh yeah, and one tiny technical nitpick: in the scenes taken from the Star Wars Video Board Game, it looked to me like they needed more deteroiration effects. They looked a lot cleaner and had better color than the rest of the movie, so they felt a bit out of place. I thought they were a great addition, they just needed to be dirtied up a bit more.
Overall, this was a great edit. I'll definitely be sharing this one with my friends and family!
Johnny Ringo said:
Timstuff said:
If my PS3 can play it then that's good enough for me. Still, a Blu-Ray release would be swanky.
yes but blank Bluray Discs are prohibitively expensive - at least where i live.
Spaceballs: The Re-revisited Unauthorized Director's Special Double Dipped Platinum Edition
My thoughts exactly, and that's what I've been trying to articulate to my brother. He seems to insist that if a movie has problems then those problems are "canon," and that if you edit them out it's basically cheating. He likes Adywan's Star Wars Revisited because it doesn't drastically alter the films, but I couldn't get him to watch the Phantom Edits of Episodes 1 and 2 or The Matrix Dezionized. He was very disappointed by Transformers 2, but even so he does not think that fans have any place in saying what should or shouldn't happen in a movie's story.
He also was not particularly fond of my Jar Jar Binks dubbing experiment, because even though he admitted it was a big improvement, he thinks there's something wrong with re-imagining Jar Jar's character like that since it's so far removed from Lucas's vision, and in his opinion the movie is the director's. Kind of odd considering that unless a director is a big name, they don't get the final cut privilege anyway and the studio ends up cutting the movie up themselves. If the movie studio gets to alter a director's vision, why shouldn't fans? :p
Well even so, that's still short enough to meet the criteria of being a single feature film (albiet a really, really long one). Kinda makes sense why Peter Jackson left Miramax over it, because he probably knew that there was no way to fit the whole trilogy into 3 hours or less, and there's no way Miramax would have let him release a 4 hour long movie. ;)
Sounds promising. Personally, what I'm looking for in a King Kong edit is one that's just plain shorter, better paced, and technically well executed. The Vintage Cut is pretty cool, but I would like to see a cut at some point that preserves most of Peter Jackson's original intention for the movie, but without the extra fat. Maybe a 2 hours + version as opposed to the bloated 3 hour original, with about 30-50 minutes being cut. You've definitely got strong technical prowess though, so I look forward to seeing what you do with King Kong, whatever that ultimately turns out to be. :)
So TMBTM, any chance we'll be seeing a grindhouse cut of Alien? If so, what titles would you consider? "The Alien Body Invader" "Alien Parasites from Planet X." Something more generic and convoluted than "Alien," more in line with the 50's-60's schlock space monster movies. We've already got a great double feature going on here with War of the Stars and Jaws Sharksploitation, but I'd love to see what's next. ;)
If my PS3 can play it then that's good enough for me. Still, a Blu-Ray release would be swanky.