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TiddySprinklesPimpBillion

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Join date
13-Jul-2018
Last activity
12-May-2019
Posts
109

Post History

Post
#1281102
Topic
Alien 1979 35mm scan opportunity
Time

To Dek. Yeah, this project is quite superfluous even though it’d make for a great BD50, not BD25. The 4K UHD is on a BD100, looks/sounds stellar (Theatrical Cut and not “Director’s” Cut), and honestly this project would be a nice bonus third disc with the current release. What I do like about this is it’s referencing other prints and not prior physical media releases. Should happen more often in this case. i.e. Preservations using film prints instead of just grabbing files from random discs and matching it to some bullshit archaic format such as Laserdisc or VHS.
Regarding T2, this goes for many other titles which have yet to receive a proper release which is more widely available (on Spleen) and not just through Team Blu. The current 4K UHD and BD release for T2 is an atrocity as I mentioned but isn’t for ALIEN on the 4K UHD. ALIENS needs a new scan from 35mm because the Blu-ray disc has been altered from Theatrical version and hence is it’s own new cut exclusive to the release. Colour timing is whack too.
So yes, still “trolling”, still wanting this as an extra disc. Not with Anthology/Archives/etc. but a stand-alone.

Post
#1281078
Topic
Alien 1979 35mm scan opportunity
Time

Dek Rollins said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

RU.08 said:

Well for the theatrical experience anyway. The “detail” in prints is 1-2K not anywhere near 4K (although they have much richer dynamic range than digital) and most prints have little shadow/highlight detail, the exception being dye-transfer prints that retain the same detail level into the shadows/highlights. Blurays and 2K/4K restorations are often sharpened way beyond the sharpness of prints as well. This is not a limitation of prints - films like Alien were shot in anamorphic and transferred using contact-printing so there is little to no loss of sharpness between the negative and the final prints.

So then I should get rid of this since it shouldn’t exist to own? Mastered in 4K and is older than ALIEN. (Warning, shit cover design.)

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Bridge-on-the-River-Kwai-4K-Blu-ray/183746/

You’re telling me I’d need to watch it properly if the scan were a low resolution of an outdated print? Not the 65mm~70mm print but a 35mm answer print?

Same goes for this too, I bet. ALSO older than ALIEN. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/2001-A-Space-Odyssey-4K-Blu-ray/224350/

Jonno said:

Indeed. 4K transfers should be technically superior, in terms of detail retention and consistency of performance, every time.

But that’s not what films shot in the 1970s were designed for - even TV and home video would have been a distant afterthought. It was all about rendering the best possible image on those theatrical prints, and all the creative decisions in the filmmaking process had that firmly set as their end goal.

4K (and, to be fair, Blu-ray) are fantastic at wringing visual information out of archival film materials - it’s among their chief selling points - but they’re aimed at achieving a much different purpose than the one those materials were created for. Hence my concern about claims of ‘original intent’, which is always a dicey issue with this technology.

This isn’t some bullshit whingey tripe about some George Lucas revisionism this forum is so bitchy about. Too much complaining about comparing it to an older print on an outdated format such as VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. Hell, the current Pet Semetary 4K+Blu-ray disc has fucking weird color timing but is revisioned. ALIEN doesn’t regarding the Theatrical Cut. Same goes for BLACK HAWK DOWN. 2K upscales don’t count.

So yes, perhaps this does recreate the theatrical experience of seeing this within the same day or a week of opening in 1979. I’m keeping the official 20th Century FOX 4K UHD release and this fan “restoration” will be a nice bonus disc, not a replacement.

EDIT: By the way, no need to pay attention to me, I’m a fucking dumbass.

Dude, chill out. You came in here to shit on the thread for no reason and it’s clear you don’t understand why people enjoy these preservations. Why should I, someone who doesn’t own any 4K equipment, be forced to accept the new UHD BD of Alien as the absolute for enjoying this picture? How do you know the color timing isn’t different from the theatrical release? Why is it wrong for people like me to see a theatrical preservation as the definitive version of a movie? We aren’t forcing you to watch it in place of your glorious official release. Even good BD releases don’t always preserve the theatrical experience as it was originally intended. And calling yourself a dumbass doesn’t automatically make you not an asshole shitting on a thread for no reason.

It’s a fan preservation, not a definitive or official one, and it won’t replace the 4K UHD. Case in point, the 4K UHD with the BD included is fucking trash regarding T2. I’d rather see a proper presentation of that compared to the sub-par bullshit of that release, which far more needs it compared to ALIEN.

JayArgonaut said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

This isn’t some bullshit whingey tripe about some George Lucas revisionism this forum is so bitchy about. Too much complaining about comparing it to an older print on an outdated format such as VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. Hell, the current Pet Semetary 4K+Blu-ray disc has fucking weird color timing but is revisioned. ALIEN doesn’t regarding the Theatrical Cut. Same goes for BLACK HAWK DOWN. 2K upscales don’t count.

So yes, perhaps this does recreate the theatrical experience of seeing this within the same day or a week of opening in 1979. I’m keeping the official 20th Century FOX 4K UHD release and this fan “restoration” will be a nice bonus disc, not a replacement.

EDIT: By the way, no need to pay attention to me, I’m a fucking dumbass.

We’re allowed to express our preferences and disappointments regarding film presentations, just as you are allowed to gush about about the 4K UHD release of Alien. Although, why you insist on being so irate is puzzling. You prefer the latest release? Cool, enjoy. What difference does it make to your life if others disagree?

None. But get with the times of home media physical formats. It’d be far better to preserve a print of something not available on Blu-ray disc anywhere on the planet OR the current Blu-ray disc is absolute rubbish, IMO of course.

Great future BONUS disc!

Post
#1281039
Topic
Alien 1979 35mm scan opportunity
Time

RU.08 said:

Well for the theatrical experience anyway. The “detail” in prints is 1-2K not anywhere near 4K (although they have much richer dynamic range than digital) and most prints have little shadow/highlight detail, the exception being dye-transfer prints that retain the same detail level into the shadows/highlights. Blurays and 2K/4K restorations are often sharpened way beyond the sharpness of prints as well. This is not a limitation of prints - films like Alien were shot in anamorphic and transferred using contact-printing so there is little to no loss of sharpness between the negative and the final prints.

So then I should get rid of this since it shouldn’t exist to own? Mastered in 4K and is older than ALIEN. (Warning, shit cover design.)

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Bridge-on-the-River-Kwai-4K-Blu-ray/183746/

You’re telling me I’d need to watch it properly if the scan were a low resolution of an outdated print? Not the 65mm~70mm print but a 35mm answer print?

Same goes for this too, I bet. ALSO older than ALIEN. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/2001-A-Space-Odyssey-4K-Blu-ray/224350/

Jonno said:

Indeed. 4K transfers should be technically superior, in terms of detail retention and consistency of performance, every time.

But that’s not what films shot in the 1970s were designed for - even TV and home video would have been a distant afterthought. It was all about rendering the best possible image on those theatrical prints, and all the creative decisions in the filmmaking process had that firmly set as their end goal.

4K (and, to be fair, Blu-ray) are fantastic at wringing visual information out of archival film materials - it’s among their chief selling points - but they’re aimed at achieving a much different purpose than the one those materials were created for. Hence my concern about claims of ‘original intent’, which is always a dicey issue with this technology.

This isn’t some bullshit whingey tripe about some George Lucas revisionism this forum is so bitchy about. Too much complaining about comparing it to an older print on an outdated format such as VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. Hell, the current Pet Semetary 4K+Blu-ray disc has fucking weird color timing but is revisioned. ALIEN doesn’t regarding the Theatrical Cut. Same goes for BLACK HAWK DOWN. 2K upscales don’t count.

So yes, perhaps this does recreate the theatrical experience of seeing this within the same day or a week of opening in 1979. I’m keeping the official 20th Century FOX 4K UHD release and this fan “restoration” will be a nice bonus disc, not a replacement.

EDIT: By the way, no need to pay attention to me, I’m a fucking dumbass.

Post
#1280972
Topic
Alien 1979 35mm scan opportunity
Time

RU.08 said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

You better not use noise reduction. Film grain is great. Do not colormatch to any release as you’ve mentioned except other film prints. Pointless to try to match with the extremely outdated Laserdiscs and taking it a step up with what you’re doing.

I think you’re misunderstanding quite a lot about film scanning. I’ve seen both scans we have so far, from two different prints scanned on two different machines, and both of them have quite a bit of scanner noise in them. I’m getting one reel re-scanned professionally on equipment that is virtually noise-free, once we have that we’ll know exactly how much to reduce the noise by.

As for colour grading, it’s a lot more involved then that. We have a few minutes from a (virtually) un-faded print, but both of the prints we scanned were red. The un-faded scan, even though it isn’t much, is our reference for the rest of the film and we have a pretty good idea about how the film should look.

Alrighty then. You’re going to retain the silver halide crystals then and reduce the scanner noise?

EDIT: I’m a shitearse.

Post
#1280961
Topic
Alien 1979 35mm scan opportunity
Time

RU.08 said:

SilverWook said:

Then you should have no problem ignoring the thread.

I don’t mind his comment, print-based preservations aren’t to everyone’s taste.

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

This doesn’t need to happen, especially with the 4K UHD release.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Alien-4K-Blu-ray/230308/
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=5205&d2=13061&s1=48549&s2=130852&i=2&l=1

The preservation won’t match the quality of the Bluray (let alone the UHD) but it will preserve the theatrical version of the film.

Theatrical edition is preserved on the 4K UHD (on a BD100) with insane amounts of detail I’ve never seen before regarding an official home media release, including the Blu-ray disc which is included.
You better not use noise reduction. Film grain is great. Do not colormatch to any release as you’ve mentioned except other film prints. Pointless to try to match with the extremely outdated Laserdiscs and taking it a step up with what you’re doing.
Better be on a high bitrate BD50 with AVC or a MKV encoded with H.265 with a nice filesize. No idea if you’ve mentioned it but would be ideal to include the optical track, if possible, via lossless.

Will make for a great companion fan disc anyway for an older print, i.e. complimentary with the 6-Disc ALIEN Anthology Blu-ray disc release.
Thank you for your effort though.

JayArgonaut said:

SilverWook said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

This doesn’t need to happen, especially with the 4K UHD release.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Alien-4K-Blu-ray/230308/
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=5205&d2=13061&s1=48549&s2=130852&i=2&l=1

Then you should have no problem ignoring the thread.

RU.08 said:

I don’t mind his comment, print-based preservations aren’t to everyone’s taste.

Even so, many of us certainly do appreciate the time, energy, effort and money that has been invested by you and other members of the community on print-based preservations, to enable us to watch and enjoy films as they were originally intended to have been seen and for that, I personally thank you. 😃

Do you not have access to watch 4K UHD physical releases? Theatrical Edition on the UHD is solely 4K (which I heavily prefer) and the “Director’s” Cut is thankfully only a 2K upscale. So yes, the former is 100% is as originally intended, regardless of all fan preservations. The audio is amazingly lossless:

4K (Theatrical Cut):
English DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
English DTS-HD Master Audio 4.1
English DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 stereo

Caveat, this is just a companion piece, it’s not a be-all, end-all the only way to watch this film. Just another way to, IMO.

Post
#1280840
Topic
ALIEN (Preservation of various properties i.e. the Fan Bonus Discs.)
Time

digitalfreaknyc said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

If source is 1080p i.e. current shorts or promos not on disc, there should be a menu for BD25 instead of data files. Especially the ALIEN 40th Anniversary shorts.

Resolution doesn’t matter. There is no correlation between resolution and the ability to have menus. For that matter, you could have menus for the older files as well.

Then why not make menus for the older files? Re-encode them as AVC for BD25, no more archaic MPEG2 for DVD. No DVD releases whatsoever. Time to move on from that format.
If there’s going to be random data discs for the older files on BD25, why not use HEVC/H.265 with MKV? Better compression. No need for HDR10. IDGAF if it won’t play on Apple.

EDIT: This is only for those features not on ALIEN Covenant or any other disc. Easier to have 1080p/24 HD content to receive menus on BD25s compared to NTSC or PAL. So, all NTSC files to have its own BD25 with zero menus and the same for PAL files for BD25? 1080/24p with menus as its own Archival disc, NTSC as its own Archival disc, and finally PAL as its own Archival disc.
I can dig it.

Post
#1280407
Topic
ALIEN (Preservation of various properties i.e. the Fan Bonus Discs.)
Time

Jonno said:

benduwan said:

Jonno said:

Giger’s Alien (shot on 16mm film - 23.976fps)

–> there´s a LD version on spleen:

Yeah. I put it there.

And I grabbed it during a freeleech. Belongs on a BD25 compilation though in much better capture quality.

As an aside, I’m still considering these custom BD25s as continuations of discs 5 & 6 from the ALIEN Anthology Blu-ray disc set. i.e. Disc 7~Whichever.

Post
#1280197
Topic
ALIEN (Preservation of various properties i.e. the Fan Bonus Discs.)
Time

No noise reduction please. What resolution are the bonus features on discs 5 and 6 for the ALIEN anthology Blu-ray disc release? If we can get the resolution matched that’d be ideal. Again, should be AVC but as 24p to have universal playability as has been mentioned.

Filesizes low? Lots of content on those two BD50 bonus feature discs. Also have to figure compression would need to be variable bitrate for each feature on the disc.

Post
#1280129
Topic
ALIEN (Preservation of various properties i.e. the Fan Bonus Discs.)
Time

Jonno said:

TiddySprinklesPimpBillion said:

I’d much rather have the content on BD25s with the content encoded in AVC, not MPEG2/PAL/NTSC, and no more DVDs.

AVC still has resolutions and frame rates that need to be determined - you’re stuck with the basic rules and limitations of PAL and NTSC, unless you’re prepared for the material to be (destructively) altered.

Then how come for SD bonus features on Blu-ray disc use the AVC codec instead of MPEG2? Keeping aspect ratio would be key. Would it need to be upscaled but same bitrate? Could be low bitrate for more content regarding each BD25.
Possibly.