StarThoughts

Invoking my LGS (Laserdisc Geek Status): that THX card was almost as laughable back then as it is now on a VHS tape.

Also General Veers (Julian Glover) was the director of the Hoth ground assault in The Empire Strikes Back.

I don't know if you can ever make it what it was supposed to be, but I'm really curious as to what you might be able to come up with for this.

michaeldc said:

Watching SW without JWs incredible soundtrack would be just awful :(

I agree, but I also see the utility of an isolated dialogue track for fan edits and the like.

Just an irrelevant aside, if the VHS box set with the hologram in the front is the same one I have (widescreen editions with From Star Wars To Jedi as well), Star Wars has the 1985 mix, so it's not exactly any theatrical version either.

The isolated music track is not sourced from the film soundtrack itself, but rather the releases of the soundtrack albums.

There was a thread on removing music from certain dialogue sequences earlier, and as I recall the verdict was that it could be done in isolated cases but wasn't something viable for long stretches of the film.

Mielr said:

But why combine it with the ROTJ ewok/celebration music? Just to be able to squeeze both unreleased pieces onto the disc? (In which case I've answered my own question). ;-)

Yes.

Keep in mind that at the time, soundtrack albums weren't the archival-style presentations that we're used to today. They were abridged and re-arranged for listening purposes. The Anthology box set still reflected this approach, even as it added a treasure trove of additional music (and is still the best-sounding presentation of music from the trilogy on CD — the RCA/Sony Special Editions have awful sound on Empire and Jedi). Combining the celebration with the unreleased end credits on Empire was their solution for including a piece of music that would have an abrupt end, and one that would have an abrupt beginning without wasting too much disc space.

What happened to the Highbridge Audio site? They've disappeared…?

If there isn't already a compiled list of differences between the broadcast and Highbridge editions, I might make one myself. It would take a bit of time to compile (I'd have to listen to each episode twice), but I'd be game to try if anybody might be interested. If there is such a list already, please direct me to it!

I think that Heater was created because it was clear by 1981 that what Jabba was developing into was not a creature that could reasonably have been in the hangar bay. Lucas is described in The Art of Return of the Jedi as saying that what he wanted was a “Queen Bee” sort of being… helpless on its own, but wielding an enormous amount of power. It's clear that the idea of Jabba had changed so much by that point that it would just be silly to incorporate that character back into Star Wars.*

Daley's solution was to keep the scene, but turn the Jabba character into somebody who could be more believably ambulatory. It's not as redundant as the scene in the movie because Greedo's dialogue in the radio program is in its original Rodese, so this scene works to cover the information that was conveyed by that scene in the film.

* — Ridiculous, even. Thank goodness nobody would actually do such a thing.

hairy_hen said:

I'll be doing both of these at some point in the future, to go along with the one I did for the first movie.  Not sure when, though.

 Looking forward to these.

dark_jedi said:

I would like to try and use the Tangerine Dream score throughout the entire film, I have all score CD's to help where needed…

Would one of those sources happen to be the “Orange Records” or “20th Anniversary” edition of the Legend score?

SilverWook said:

I think Lucas simply changed his mind between the trilogies. Tatooine was more of an old West analogy in the OT. You had homesteads, saloons, shootouts, traders, and bandits who would attack unwary travelers. Even the rifle Luke pulls out of the Landspeeder before the sandpeople attacked looks like a prop from a western.

This is one of the main reasons the revision of Mos Eisley in the Special Edition always felt so wrong for me (even aside from the goofy droids and Jawa hijinks). Mos Eisley felt like either a town in the old West — or a village in ancient Japan that Toshiro Mifune might be walking through. It wasn't a place that you really wanted to go unless you had to.

It formerly reinforced that Tatooine was a $#!+hole, now, between the busier Mos Eisley and the frankly metropolitan Mos Espa, Luke just seems like that much more of a whiner when he complains about living on Tatooine. It also takes quite a bit away from the ‘hero from nowhere’ concept that Lucas had based his story on.

kk650 said:

Getting the colour grading 100% consistent would require a very slow and thorough shot by shot regrading of the film, knowing what the lighting conditions were for each scene and what intentions GL and co had in terms of colour grading each scene. Only the original cinematographer most likely would have the knowledge and skill to be able to achieve such a feat accurately.

I'm not certain it would be totally consistent from shot-to-shot even if you had Gil Taylor and his camera crew sitting next to you, along with notated original shot lists. And even then, accuracy would be relative — this film is a product of its budget and the analog era.

That said, you have established some very nice color palettes for the film here. I just don't think that you'll get anything global at the level you're working at, which is something of a testament to your attention to detail.

I think that it's undeniable that different lighting situation will give different values to each of the colors in the shot. If you keep giving us more shots, I think the same thing will happen; there will be some cases where setting A just happens to look better, whilst in others setting B does. Unless you're going to regrade the film on a shot-by-shot basis, you're going to get some variation in responses.

I think the overall picture is very similar, maybe a slight edge on the second, but the fleshtones are definitely more natural in the second. They're a bit greenish on the first.

Again, I agree with Frank678… the stronger blues of the first example may “pop” a bit more, but they look more natural in the second.

Space Kaijuu said:

I could use some feedback on one of the features.  I plan to put together character galleries with information on the main characters in the film.  Currently, I only have the new characters introduced in the movie along with Optimus Prime and Megatron.  Should I include bios and info on the pre-movie characters as well?  I would probably have to split up the characters among multiple slideshows if I did include them.

I would say to split the slideshows between those characters introduced in the movie and those that were already established that play a primary role in the film (Optimus Prime and Megatron might go better there).

There is more detail in the 4K transfer, and I find the colors much more appealing. The bluer image on the 2007 disc looks rather ugly by comparison.

Fleshtones in particular look much more natural in the 4K transfer, while everybody on the 2007 disc has a greenish complexion that looks vaguely Vulcan.

I prefer the more neutral colors as well.

AntcuFaalb's link was exactly the article I was talking about, albeit longer. Those shot breakdowns for all versions should be invaluable.

It's nice to be able to read the original “Building the Perfect Dune” article as well…

I found my old audiocassettes of the original broadcasts and found to my surprise that there was an additional scene in the first episode between Luke and Camie that I vaguely remembered but isn't in the Highbridge version.

Are there any resources outlining the differences between the broadcast and Highbridge versions?

They also edited Ken Hiller's intro “Star Wars. An adaptation for radio in thirteen parts, based on characters and situations created by George Lucas. Episode____” to just “Star Wars. Episode____.” The original introduction was more theatrical.

dark_jedi said:

Can this Video Watchdog #29 be downloaded anywhere? as for the sound I would love to get the Tangerine Dream score to work, I like the other score as well but I grew up with and am more used to the Tangerine Dream score and just prefer it more.

There do not appear to be any digital versions of the magazine; the staff are apparently putting together a kickstarter to develop a digital archive.

The issue itself is on eBay for $6.

I wish I still had all of my old Video Watchdogs, I would just scan the articles for you, but unfortunately they were lost in a move a few years ago.

It's the American release that shows Darkness right away, spoiling his more dramatic entry later on in the film.

There was an old issue of Video Watchdog (No. 29) that had an article “Reconstructing Legend,” which broke down the differences between the American and European cuts of the film using the existing laserdisc editions, which was very informative. Obviously this doesn't take the Director's Cut into account, but given that most web resources will, this might be your best guide to the divergences between the original theatrical versions.

It may be VERY difficult to match footage up from the variant versions of the film as each are different transfers with different color timings from different eras (the DC looks pretty raggy by today's standards), but I'd be interested to see what you can do with it.

Could anything be done with the sound? The DC sounds a bit flat.

The other version of Legend would be the International cut that was distributed in 1985 by Fox outside of the United States. I used to have a pan-and-scan videocassette of that somewhere, years ago, primarily because I really wanted to see the film with the Jerry Goldsmith score. The Director's cut seems to be an expanded version of what I remember from the European cut. I could be wrong. If I can find that VHS tape I could be more specific, but I'm not optimistic about that.

The American version is the only one with the redone Tangerine Dream score, and was significantly re-edited when Universal exec Sidney Jay Scheinberg decided to target the Risky Business audience with the film (at the same time, he was trying to “improve” Terry Gilliam's Brazil — not his best year). Although Scott participated in creating the American cut, he did so reluctantly. Different footage is used throughout, Darkness' introduction is different, the kiss from the end of the movie was added to Tom Cruise and Mia Sara's first scene together, the alicorn is returned to the unicorn that was attacked by goblins at the end of the film.

The biggest difference between the cuts is the music. I actually like Tangerine Dream's score for the American cut, despite the accusations of it being anachronistic (I find that this is rarely a good argument — how is a modern symphony orchestra not anachronistic for the pre-historic Conan the Barbarian?) and too Eastern for the very Western-styled fairy tale. It's very moody, with some quite moving passages, and is pretty effective. Jon Anderson's vocals were added to the last cue of the film, apparently without the Dream's approval.

But Jerry Goldsmith's music, at times Romantic and at others impressionistic, is sublime. The film was planned with this approach in mind; the John Bettis lyrics for the songs were in the script. It is much more adept at creating the fairy tale atmosphere than the Dream, and there is one scene, where Jack begs the unicorn for forgiveness, where Goldsmith is effectively the “voice” of the unicorn, communicating its anger at Jack, fear and ambivalence, and ultimately absolution.

(There are a few cues from the composer's earlier Psycho II thrown in; it wouldn't be a Ridley Scott/Terry Rawlings project without a little jarring temp track love, would it?)

CatBus said:

I know Criterion is often contractually obligated to use the video the studio provides them, but sheesh... sometimes you should just say no thanks and work on that Criterion Blu-ray of Cabin Boy instead.

I believe that it's Twilight Time that has to release what they get; Criterion tend to produce unique masters. The Thief color revision is (groan) an intentional Michael Mann choice, and was probably a prerequisite for his participation. It's annoying that this keeps happening.

If you have a laptop or computer with an HDMI out, you can watch them with VLC.