Servii

rocknroll41 said:

Nah I’m of the opinion that if the OT somehow came out today, to THIS fanbase, it would’ve been ripped to shreds (especially RotJ, with the sibling retcon and whatnot).

On this site, maybe, but the majority of Star Wars fans are much less critical than this community. Also, this is a difficult hypothetical scenario to work through, since Star Wars content has always been in the shadow of the OT and been compared to it, and there was no internet then, and the fandom wasn’t as large or established yet. Any scenario where the OT came out today would vary based on whether Star Wars already existed, meaning there was basis for comparison and an established fandom.

I hope Harmy is aware of this, since he’s using the 2019 version as one of his main sources for Despecialized 3.0. I’m sure he’s already accounted for it in some way, though.

1. “I am your father.”
2. Vader turning back to the Light and killing the Emperor
3. Luke catching his green lightsaber for the first time
4. The first Death Star being destroyed
5. “No…there is another.”

Rodney-2187 said:

The Original Trilogy is no more perfect than anything else. The same criticisms often leveled at other Star Wars movies can also be applied to the OT. Since we’re in the habit of forgiving and overlooking, why not spread that attitude over all of Star Wars?

No one here will suggest that the OT doesn’t have flaws. What matters is the amount and severity of those flaws. I don’t ignore flaws outright, but the OT are solid enough films that the occasional flaws don’t detract from the experience, and I’d argue that they are “closer to perfect” overall. Other Star Wars films, however, are more flawed on a fundamental level that takes you out of the movie. Too many problems on a structural level start to add up until the film appears broken under scrutiny.

SparkySywer said:

Rodney-2187 said:

If the last new Star wars we ever saw was back in 1983, the franchise wouldn’t be as popular as it is today. The originals may have maintained a reputation of being groundbreaking for their time, and a cultural touchstone, but so many young people have an attachment to Star Wars that has very little to do with the originals. They most likely only saw those movies out of curiosity about how it all started.

As it is now, all parts of Star Wars reinforce each other. Each generation has their own take on it. I’d say it’s more correct that the prequels, as well as other new content, is what will keeps people aware of Star Wars. I don’t see an end in sight, and that’s comforting.

I think it’s really the exact opposite way around: People more often get introduced to Star Wars because of the older content (usually the OT), and check out newer stuff later.

Speaking from personal experience, Sparky is correct. I was introduced to Star Wars around the same time that Phantom Menace was coming out, but I was too young to be aware of new movie releases, so my first experience was my parents showing me the OT. It took me a couple years, to around the time AotC was coming out, before I even learned about TPM and that there were more than just three Star Wars films. I was introduced to Star Wars as just a trilogy of films, and I was initially confused that there were more, and if Star Wars had remained just a trilogy, I would have still loved it just as much and been just as obsessed. The age of the films didn’t matter to me at all. I do have nostalgic attachment to the prequels, but my nostalgia for the OT is much stronger and goes further back.

Okay, three more:

The Machete Order is not the optimal viewing order. Release Order all the way (except for the anthology films. Those can be watched whenever).

Darth Vader in the OT only ever pulls out his lightsaber to duel other saber wielders. He never uses it on ordinary soldiers. The modern depiction of Vader as some frontline killing machine cutting down troops left and right is inaccurate to his original depiction and shows a lack of understanding of the character.

“Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans” is an absurd statement. Star Wars fans are, for the most part, a very easy to please group.

Okay, I have a few more:

The ewoks are great.

Count Dooku should have been simply a renegade Jedi, not a Sith, and had the potential to be one of the most nuanced characters in the whole saga if he’d just been written slightly differently. Darth Maul also should not have been made a full Sith, and should have just remained a minor side antagonist who gets killed.

Despite seeming repetitive from an out-of-universe perspective, the construction of a second Death Star makes perfect sense in-universe.

Luke in TLJ and Luke in his most recent appearance both get the character wrong in different ways. The recent Luke is basically an immaculate, airbrushed depiction of how fans remember Luke from RotJ. He doesn’t seem like a real person anymore. TLJ tries to go in the opposite direction by taking Luke down a notch and humanizing him, but goes too far and turns him into a horrible person. Luke in RotJ was the perfect balance for his character. He acts stoic and composed toward his enemies, but is warm and relaxed with his friends. The claim that RotJ Luke was too monk-like and emotionally distant is incorrect.

Star Wars would be better off being laid to rest as a film/TV franchise. The original essence of the series has only gotten more and more diluted over time, and the continuous milking of the franchise for the foreseeable future is not cause for celebration to me.

I prefer the worldbuilding and general premise of this trilogy over the sequels we got, by a large margin. However, bringing Maul back would have been a big mistake and would’ve been very confusing for people who are only familiar with the movies. He’d been absent since Episode I, as far as most people are concerned. Him showing up again, and audiences having to watch an animated series to fill in the gap, would be very off-putting for people.

In a way, I’m glad George’s sequel trilogy didn’t get made, since if it was written and created by the man himself, it would be harder to disregard. And he didn’t seem to have a firm idea of what he even wanted the sequels to be (though neither did Disney and Lucasfilm, to be fair). I think a sequel trilogy was something George would toy with and write notes on every few years, but I doubt he ever would have gone through with it, since he’s getting up there in years, wants to spend time with his family, and ultimately, he had more of a story to tell going backwards in time than forwards.

It reminds me of how J.R.R. Tolkien actually started writing a sequel to Lord of the Rings. He wrote the first couple chapters, then scrapped the project when he realized

a) It was depressing and ruined the bittersweet ending he had created

b) It wouldn’t contribute anything substantial or insightful to the Middle-earth mythology. The story was complete. Anything post-LotR would have been anti-climactic.

I think, on some level, George knew his sequel trilogy was never going to happen by his own hand. It was all just ideas and notes. But he did certainly feel blindsided when he realized Disney wasn’t using his treatments (whatever those treatments entailed). Bob Iger himself made that clear, and I’m sure he softened George’s reaction when he described it. I imagine George was fuming. The fact is, Disney didn’t want to spend any time pondering or formulating what their sequel trilogy was going to be. They wanted to push it out as quickly as possible. It was never about the story to them.

m4zzic said:

He never should have taken it off in the first place! It totally destroyed the aura. Imagine Darth Vader had taken off his helmet in ANH after a few minutes!

I agree with you that, in an ideal world, the mask should’ve stayed on. But, given what happened with Kylo by the end of TFA, there was no way for him to go back to being the mysterious, formidable masked warrior he was at the start of TFA. The illusion was gone. So, the best option for the following two films would’ve been to just ditch the mask and try to develop Kylo without it.

daveinthecave said:

Servii said:

A New Hope has tighter writing than Empire Strikes Back.

Could you elaborate on this. I’ve always been of the opinion that ESB had the tightest script but I’d be glad for a different take.

There are a few things I can think of from the movie. I don’t want to come off like I’m bashing Empire. I love Empire. I just think Star Wars is marginally better in terms of writing.

When Han is planning to leave to pay off his debt to Jabba, everyone (including Han himself) acts like this has to be a permanent departure. When really, there’s no reason why, in the 3-year gap between movies, Han couldn’t have just stopped by to pay off his debt then come back to the Alliance. He really only needed to make a quick trip and come back, but everyone acts like he’s abandoning the cause forever.

The whole Mynock/Space Slug sequence felt a little unnecessary, since the heroes find themselves in the exact same situation of being chased by a Star Destroyer as they were before.

Han’s trick of camouflaging the Falcon on the back of a Star Destroyer probably shouldn’t have worked since there were so many other Destroyers nearby facing different directions, so one of them was bound to spot it.

It’s odd that Han or Leia never noticed Slave I flying behind them during their sublight journey to Bespin.

Luke was able to go straight to Bespin, despite having no way of knowing what planet he saw in his vision or where that planet was located.

A New Hope has tighter writing than Empire Strikes Back.

The first act of RotJ is my favorite part of the movie.

TRoS is the most enjoyable of the sequel trilogy. TFA was the hardest to sit through.

I didn’t like Harrison Ford’s performance in TFA.

Phil Lord and Chris Miller should have been allowed to finish Solo, and the movie should have been a comedy, though ideally, it should have been a Lando movie instead.

Killing off Han in RotJ would have been a mistake. If there was any time to kill him off, it should have been at the end of ESB during the freezing process.

Kylo Ren’s mask should have remained destroyed and never been repaired or replaced. That was one of the parts of TLJ I actually liked.

Modern Star Wars is mostly bad, only occasionally having moments of greatness.

Lando is better than Han.

Mandalorians are overused, and are no longer cool.

Revenge of the Sith has gone from underrated to overrated in the span of the past few years, and I don’t fully understand why.

I will say, I did enjoy Rogue One a lot, despite my issues with it. In my eyes, I would say it’s about tied with Revenge of the Sith for best Star Wars movie outside of the OT. I love Gareth Edwards as a director, and think he did a great job with what he was given, and would really want to see a director’s cut if that were possible. From what I know, the film was originally supposed to be more of a gritty war movie, and was reworked and re-shot into more formulaic Star Wars fare, so it would be interesting to see if that last minute change was good or bad for the final product.

But no, I wouldn’t consider it on par with any of the OT. It stands out amid the mediocrity of modern Star Wars, and managed to wow me at several points, but it’s not the same lightning in a bottle that the OT was. I view it as an honorary Star Wars film made out of love for the original films, that does a great job of mimicking those films without feeling overly derivative or disrespectful, but it’s not a masterpiece. Just a solid movie.

I still preferred the Rogue One cast over the Sequels cast. I wanted to spend more time with the Rogue One characters, and was disappointed that I couldn’t because I thought they had a lot of potential as a group. Whereas with the exception of Finn, none of the Sequel characters interested me, and we all know what they did to Finn.

In many ways, I think that Rogue One is similar to Revenge of the Sith. Both movies have a messy beginning and middle, which is partially salvaged by a strong third act that leaves people with a more positive impression leaving the movie. I don’t mind the characters being underdeveloped, though I think a little more screen time of them working together as a team would have helped me care about them more and view them as a group (a la The Dirty Dozen).

My main issues with Rogue One are that I don’t like how the Death Star’s exhaust port flaw was made into a deliberate, significant act of sabotage rather than just a small oversight in construction. I also think that the ending doesn’t line up with the beginning of ANH since Vader literally sees the Tantive IV fleeing from the battle with his own eyes, but in ANH, Vader never mentions that, and Leia acts like she has plausible deniability.

Yub Nub fits the movie better and feels less generic than its replacement. It’s very innocent and light-hearted sounding, which I enjoy. It’s a simple, joyful song that fits the Ewoks, with lyrics representing the Rebellion’s victory that they had suffered so long to achieve. The fact that the trilogy, after putting its heroes through so many horrific experiences, ends on a note of such sheer, childlike joy is very satisfying.

Also, I’ve never been a fan of the added planet montage, either. It doesn’t make sense in-universe and is unnecessary. The Emperor is dead. The point is taken by the audience, while still leaving open the possibility of future stories involving the Empire as a faction.

As a kid, I would rent an OT film from the video store every single Friday for years. I took an extended break for most of the 2010s, only rewatching my old GOUT DVDs a few months before TFA came out. But, after discovering Harmy’s work last year, I’ve had a renewed interest in the series, so I’ll probably go back to watching the OT at least once a year going forward.

The 1997 versions were what my family rented from the video store when I was a kid, so I do have a lot of nostalgia for those versions of the films. Since they never made the jump to DVD, despite supposedly being George’s “final cuts,” they now exist in this awkward limbo state, and will likely keep on fading into obscurity, but I’d definitely like to see them preserved in some form as a sort of curiosity. Because, despite the many poor decisions George made with them, they were a landmark in the history of the franchise, for better or worse.

If you were trying to create a radical fan edit of the OT where Han turns out to be Force sensitive, then you could use him dodging Greedo’s shot as an early clue to his Jedi-like reflexes. Of course, Han having the Force is the only way I can make sense of his point-blank dodge to begin with, cause there’s no way a non-Force user could dodge like that.

You know, I remember seeing both versions of this scene (the original and the 1997 version) as a kid, and I recall being very confused by the blink-and-you’ll-miss-it exchange of blaster fire that had been added. It happened so fast and looked so janky, I couldn’t really tell what was going on in that split second.

Mocata said:

George is the worst fan editor of all time.

He should come on this forum under an alias and have some fun… compete on merit alone… 😃

He could already be here. You never know. He could be any one of us…

It’s that lack of availability that makes me want to spread the word about fan preservations as much as I can to my friends and family. This weekend, my family will be watching the Despecialized trilogy for the first time. None of them have even seen the unaltered versions since they were in the theater, and I’m very excited to make those available to them again. I would be very happy to see some official release at some point, but after all this time, I’ve resigned myself to the reality that fan restorations will always be our only decent option.

It seems so counterproductive not to restore and release them. Doing that would be hugely profitable and produce a lot of fan goodwill towards Lucasfilm. But it seems that George was firm in his demands, and I doubt Disney has any interest in releasing a “non-canon” version of the trilogy alongside their current version.

You know, I’m kind of bummed they never developed Huttese into a fully fledged language like Elvish or Klingon. Would be fun to bust out at parties.

Of course, when Harmy’s 3.0 versions of Despecialized are released, those will almost definitely become my definitive versions of the OT films. From what glimpses he’s shown so far, it looks like they’ll be the perfect blend of polish and authenticity.

The Force has gotten way too overpowered. They needed to place a ceiling on the extent of Force powers at some point, but they just never did, and now it’s gone far beyond what should be possible. I could let Force Lightning slide if it was rare and only something the most powerful Dark siders could use, but stuff like Force speed and Force item teleportation is just too much.

Also, I’ve realized that ESB is the only Star Wars film to end with a shot in space. (Except for Solo, maybe? I’d have to rewatch that to be sure.)

Add Shmi’s grave to the background of shots of the Lars homestead.

Add the hyperspace effect outside the cockpit during Han and Leia’s conversation on their way to Yavin IV.

Add Vader’s TIE fighter jumping into hyperspace after the first Death Star’s destruction.

Carry the changes made to Cloud City’s windows over to every shot that features those windows, so they’re not inconsistent anymore.

Add Kashyyyk to the celebration montage at the end of RotJ.

It’s cool seeing Coruscant and other planets reacting to the outcome, though it doesn’t quite make sense except maybe as a montage of planets being liberated over time rather than immediately. The capital of the Empire shouldn’t have switched over to the Alliance that quickly.