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Servii

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11-Jul-2020
Last activity
27-Nov-2022
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Post
#1513229
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

I finally watched this. It had huge problems, but overall, I thought it was still better than BoBF. It at least had a stronger emotional core. Also, it was cool to see Ewan in the role again, and the scenes in the first episode of him living his life on Tatooine were solid.

Besides that, it was pretty lame, though. Underneath all the filler, there was a potentially good character study buried in this show, but it gets drowned out by all the dumb stuff going on, and the final product ends up looking and feeling like a fan film. In the end, I don’t buy that this story “really happened” between the movies. I wouldn’t recommend it.

Post
#1513207
Topic
Is Bail Organa secretly an absolute idiot?
Time

In his onscreen appearances, Bail was always kind of a non-character beyond the basic traits of being a good-hearted senator who likes the Jedi and democracy. But yeah, the new canon has unintentionally written him as kind of a doofus.

Besides the things you mentioned, there’s also the fact that he sent Obi-Wan of all people to save his daughter when he has loads of money and influence at his disposal. Also, him sending his daughter directly into the Battle of Scarif is hugely incriminating. With stuff like that, it’s a miracle he lasted as long as he did, and realistically, he would have been “disappeared” by the Empire much sooner.

Post
#1512759
Topic
What changes would you make to the Prequels?
Time

Spartacus01 said:

This is a list of all the major changes I would make to the current Prequel Trilogy:

  1. The Clone War that is fought during the Trilogy should not be the only Clone War. Before the Prequels, there should be another Clone War, in which the Clone Masters created an Army of Clones and tried to take over the Galaxy, just like the Thrawn Trilogy says. Thus, the First Clone War is the one that was fought against the Clone Masters, while the Second Clone War is the one that was fought against the Separatists and it’s the one that was fought during the Prequel Trilogy, and in which Obi-Wan and Anakin participated. This way, the Clone Wars from the Thrawn Trilogy could be seen as true and there would be no significant contradiction with the pre-1999 EU, but at the same time we could also have a war against the Separatists.
  2. Anakin’s discovery, his taking by Obi-Wan and how he joined the Jedi Order should be themes that stay out of the movies, they should be themes for novels and comics set before the Prequel Trilogy, between the two Clone Wars. In the first movie, Anakin should be portrayed as Obi-Wan’s apprentice already. The first movie should be like Attack of the Clones, that is, a movie that serves to establish the beginning of the war (the Second Clone War) and the beginning of Anakin and Padmé’s relationship: the second movie should be like Labyrinth of Evil, that Is, an adventure that is set during the War itself; the third movie should be like the classical Revenge of the Sith, so it should show Anakin’s fall and the birth of the Empire.
  3. Anakin and Padmé should meet for the first time in the first movie. They doesn’t marry in the movie, nor for the rest of the Trilogy. Their relationship is not a marriage, but just a normal romantic relationship. Thus, Padmé is not Anakin’s wife, but simply his girlfriend. Furthermore, Padmé should still be the Senator of Naboo, but she should not be the former Queen. Jamilia should be the Queen all along. So, Anakin and Padmé meet each other when he’s 20 and she’s 25.
  4. There should be no rule forbidding the Jedi from having attachments, and the Jedi should be free to have romantic relationships. In general, the Jedi from the Prequel Trilogy should be more like the Jedi from the Tales of the Jedi comics. They should be heroes and should value positive feelings and positive relationships. Instead of teaching how to avoid relationships, the Jedi should teach how to have good relationships and should allow falling in love. Thus, Anakin and Padmé’s relationship should be public, and attachment management shouldn’t be the main storyline of the Trilogy, nor the reason of why Anakin falls to the Dark Side. I have nothing against the idea that the Jedi have their vision clouded by the Dark Side, and I’m also not against the idea that they have become a bureaucratized institution that puts itself at the service of corrupt politicians. I mean, I don’t want the Jedi to be portrayed as perfect through the Trilogy, but at the same time I’d like the audience to be able to share their basic philosophy, and I also don’t want them to forbid such a natural thing as falling in love.
  5. Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side to try to save Padmé, but simply to try to end the War. Yes, he’s a slightly rebellious and a little stubborn person, but at the same time he’s very peaceful and would not hurt anyone. In spite of this, the War eventually transform and radicalize him. Such a radicalization leeds Anakin to embrace authoritarian ideals as time goes by (he never treats Padmé badly, though). In the end, Anakin ends up getting so sick of all the War and all the suffering that he sees through the Galaxy on a daily bases, that he becomes willing to do anything to put an end to all of it. So, Palpatine reveals himself as the Dark Lord of the Sith who was always behind everything and offers Anakin to join him, to bring order to the Galaxy and stop the War. Anakin eventually accepts, but at the same time he become corrupted by the Darkness, to the point that he ends up doing things he never thought he would do, such as killing all the Jedi inside the Temple after the activation of Order 66. Then, he ends up killing Padmé (she dies in childbirth due to the injuries he gave her), and the duel on Mustafar would be the same, so he ends up being burned in lava.
  6. I have nothing against the use of the Clones by the Republic, but I think the Separatists should use a Clone Army as well. So, Dooku and Palpatine would orchestrate the creation of the Grand Army of the Republic, but at the same time they would also create a Clone Army for the Confederacy, obviously using two different people to create the Clones. Also, Jango Fett should not exist. The Prequel Trilogy should respect the pre-1999 lore, therefore Boba Fett’s backstory shouldn’t change. So, the Clones used by the Republic are Clones of an important Mandalorian bounty hunter, which is not related to Boba Fett, though.
  7. I have nothing against the idea of Yoda using a lightsaber to fight, but I think he should only use the lightsaber once, that is, during the final duel against Darth Sidious in the third movie. That should be the first and last time we see Yoda using his lightsaber in all of the movies.
  8. Anakin is not the Chosen One. There should be no Chosen One in general. Anakin should have a biological father and mother like all normal humans, and he should be a normal human without any divine or special connotations. However, Anakin never knew his father, as he died before he was born. After Anakin left Tatooine to become a Jedi, Shmi married again. She married Cliegg Lars and lived with him, Owen and Beru for many years. However, she died before the Prequel Trilogy began, so we never see her. Sometimes Anakin mentions her during the course of the three movies, though, and throughout the trilogy Anakin should visit the Lars family at least once. This way, we have the opportunity to explore the frictions and differences between Owen and Anakin, of which Obi-Wan talks about in Star Wars (1977).

I’m currently planning to rewrite the Prequels by using this main concepts. My Trilogy will be based on the premise that most of the pre-1999 EU is Canon, and Rogue One will be considered Canon as well. If any of you are interested, maybe I could open a specific thread about it…

This all sounds really good. As time has gone on, I’ve started to think that the whole Chosen One prophecy is a bit of a narrative crutch. Anakin’s fall would have been more compelling if, instead of being a child of prophecy, Anakin is shown distinguishing himself through his good deeds and heroic acts. As the war would go on, the people of the Republic would look to him more and more as their champion. He’d become this symbol of hope to the galaxy, all while the war continues to traumatize and wear away at him, until he finally snaps under the pressure of watching everything crumble around him.

Post
#1512610
Topic
If someone had access to the most advanced modern cgi what would prequel trilogy yoda look like when using it?
Time

Fullmetaled said:

Servii said:

Fullmetaled said:

Servii said:

It would have higher res textures and maybe more real-looking movements and expressions. This would apply to any older CGI model that got updated years later. I’m not sure why the question is about Yoda specifically. We can imagine what a 2022 CG model of Yoda would look like, but it’s not like we can describe the details of it, since it doesn’t exist.

Is there a fan that can show an example of what he would look like for example corridor crew?

You’d have to ask someone like the guys at Corridor Crew. But they’d need a reason to create that. And that would still just be a fan creation, and wouldn’t be up to par with what the VFX industry can create today. At best, it would only look slightly better than the prequel Yoda model, if even that.

I wish one the prequels were actually popular and two that Disney was the kind of studio that would update the prequels effects if it was oh well. 😦

The prequels are popular. It’s just that Disney and Lucasfilm have no plans of making any further changes to George’s films.

Post
#1512570
Topic
If someone had access to the most advanced modern cgi what would prequel trilogy yoda look like when using it?
Time

Fullmetaled said:

Servii said:

It would have higher res textures and maybe more real-looking movements and expressions. This would apply to any older CGI model that got updated years later. I’m not sure why the question is about Yoda specifically. We can imagine what a 2022 CG model of Yoda would look like, but it’s not like we can describe the details of it, since it doesn’t exist.

Is there a fan that can show an example of what he would look like for example corridor crew?

You’d have to ask someone like the guys at Corridor Crew. But they’d need a reason to create that. And that would still just be a fan creation, and wouldn’t be up to par with what the VFX industry can create today. At best, it would only look slightly better than the prequel Yoda model, if even that.

Post
#1512483
Topic
If someone had access to the most advanced modern cgi what would prequel trilogy yoda look like when using it?
Time

It would have higher res textures and maybe more real-looking movements and expressions. This would apply to any older CGI model that got updated years later. I’m not sure why the question is about Yoda specifically. We can imagine what a 2022 CG model of Yoda would look like, but it’s not like we can describe the details of it, since it doesn’t exist.

Post
#1512438
Topic
On Jedi and Attachment
Time

So, I’m in the middle of watching the PT with director’s commentary, because it was recommended to me, and something that George Lucas said during Shmi’s death scene really struck me. George said that her death was inevitable, and that Anakin’s insistence on setting out to find her showed his inability to let go of his attachments and accept the inevitability of death.

But Shmi’s death wasn’t inevitable. Anakin had 10 years to come back and save her from slavery. Hell, if he’d come back even just a day earlier, he might have been able to rescue her. And even ignoring that, if you found out a family member had been kidnapped, and there was even the slightest chance that they were still alive and could be saved, of course you’d go get them. At the very least, you’d want the certainty of whether they’re dead or not, so that you can properly mourn for them.

If Shmi had died from natural causes, then the message would have made more sense. Her getting kidnapped and tortured to death obviously wasn’t an inevitable thing, and would have been easily avoidable.

Post
#1511864
Topic
Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
Time

The takeaway I’m getting from this thread is that George did intend for the Jedi Order to be flawed in the sense that they had a false sense of security and so failed to stop the Sith when they had the chance, but that George didn’t intend for the Jedi ideology itself to be flawed. That was an EU concept.

Post
#1511763
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

“Best one since Empire” has become practically a cliche line that people say nearly every time a new Star Wars thing comes out. But it has the implication that that also means “better than RotJ,” when really, I don’t think post-OT Lucasfilm has topped RotJ yet, at least as far as movies go. Andor is hard to compare to the movies, because it’s a different medium, but I get the impression from people that it’s possibly better than Rogue One because it’s Tony Gilroy’s singular vision that he didn’t have to compromise on during reshoots and rewrites.

Post
#1511598
Topic
Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series
Time

Harmy said:

CarboniteSolo said:

Harmy said:

So, I just watched episode 10 and I’m effing ecstatic about how good this is. It’s definitely the best Disney Star Wars show but in my opinion, it’s best Star Wars anything since at least Return of the Jedi, with the possible exception of the Thrawn trilogy.

No love for Rogue One?

Not really. Of the Disney movies, I liked Solo the most. Rogue One didn’t really make me care about any of the characters. I suppose it might actually get better after watching Andor.

In hindsight, maybe the events of Rogue One would have been better as the series finale for Andor. I’m sure fan editors will get on that when Andor wraps up.

Post
#1510009
Topic
Anyone else think Empire Strikes Back's Special Edition is actually better than the Theatrical Cut?
Time

It’s alright. I still prefer the theatrical cut, but the Special Edition is acceptable for casual viewing. Most of my issues with the changes are more minor stuff, nothing blatantly awful like the other two movies.

ESB Revisited kind of renders the Special Edition irrelevant for me, though. It’s just too good.

Post
#1509834
Topic
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator &amp; Time Travelling Revisionist...
Time

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

Post
#1509359
Topic
What changes would you make to the Prequels?
Time

My version of the Jedi would be more decentralized and scattered throughout the galaxy. They’d be like the Dunedain Rangers from LOTR, and would be more low-profile and not really in the public eye. Obi-Wan would be a general in the service of House Organa of Alderaan, but it wouldn’t be a normal thing for a Jedi to be a general.

I’d delete Qui-Gon entirely and merge all his character traits into Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan discovers a 19-year-old Anakin on Tatooine. I’d also incorporate Owen Lars into Anakin’s life on Tatooine.

The Clone Wars would start in Episode I, and would be multiple conflicts spread throughout the galaxy, and the clones would be attacking the Republic. Mandalorian clones, maybe.

I’d give Tarkin a role in the prequels, and show his rise to prominence.

And most importantly, I’d spend a lot more time fleshing out Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship and making their bond compelling. Also, Padme would live at the end, and Anakin would fall into a lava pit in a way that Obi-Wan can’t save him.

Post
#1509305
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

I saw a post somewhere recently that basically said “Why do people who hate Star Wars spend so much time focusing on it and talking about it? Why don’t they focus on something that they actually like and makes them happy?”

And that got me thinking. Why do I focus on Star Wars? I have a love-hate relationship with Star Wars as a franchise. The one thing I don’t feel about Star Wars is indifference. When Star Wars is at its best, it’s something that’s deeply entertaining and engaging for me. When Star Wars is at its worst, I can’t stand it. There’s no other franchise where I have both positive and negative reactions to it so strongly.

I still want Star Wars to be good. And there is still some good Star Wars stuff being made. But it’s like trying to admire the beautiful work done on a garden while the house is on fire, and the homeowners insist that everything is fine.

Star Wars is just something that I can’t fully let go of. It does bring me happiness, still.

Post
#1508966
Topic
Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
Time

That’s the problem with Grogu. Grogu not only isn’t putting his all into his training because he misses Din Djarin, but he would absolutely choose saving Din over saving 100 people in a burning building. That doesn’t make him a bad person, but it does make him a bad Jedi. So Luke makes him choose, Din or being a Jedi. Grogu chooses Din, and he respects his choice.

Grogu’s a baby, though. He’s not able yet to understand complex moral questions or to make life-changing decisions. When Luke puts that choice in front of Grogu, there’s no way Grogu at this point can fully comprehend what that choice means. Naturally, a baby is going to feel a strong bond to their parent, and lack the high ideals necessary to commit to being a Jedi. But that doesn’t mean Grogu wouldn’t have grown into a good Jedi.

Every quote I’ve read says Lucas didn’t pay any attention at all to the EU. He always viewed it as a separate universe from his. Which is why he ignored it in everything he made. The Prequels contradict the EU as does The Clone Wars. You’d have fans yelling at him because he changed Koriban to Moraband and it’s just like, well yeah, he didn’t give a shit. When did he “veto” anything?

Read this. There are some more examples that come to mind. George rejected the idea of bringing Vader back in Dark Empire, for example.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/2aa88b8f4c2689eb2eab84a640f2f813/71d222a46ea38c02-24/s1280x1920/3046f98bb19b4a789b42c5c3b55ca791294108ad.pnj

Post
#1508953
Topic
Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
Time

The Jedi, here, are telling him that he needs to prioritize his training over his attachments. And Lucas agrees with them.

As I said, that’s not the same thing. That’s not Obi-Wan and Yoda saying “You need to give up your attachments to the people in your life.” They’re just telling him he needs to focus on his training and avoid throwing himself recklessly and impulsively into situations due to those attachments. It’s a lesson about patience and forethought, not about non-attachment. That lines up with what George is saying in those quotes.

Contrast this with Luke and Ahsoka in BoBF, where there’s this implication that they want Din and Grogu to never see each other again for Grogu to become a Jedi.

Lucas never liked Mara Jade. Ever.

He didn’t veto her, though. He vetoed many other proposed EU ideas, but not that.

Edit: It’s also telling that, even in George’s own words, he says that Luke is acting out of a sense of compassion. In ESB, Luke isn’t saying stuff like “I need my friends,” or “I can’t live without them.” He says “They’re my friends. I’ve gotta help them.” He wants to help them because he has a good heart, not because of selfish possessiveness.

Post
#1508908
Topic
Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
Time

Lucas has not once altered his opinion on the Jedi. Back in the 1980s, 2000s, and nowadays, he still says the Jedi were right and still echoes their philosophy as if it were his own.

I’m not so sure that his perception has never changed. There was no mention in the OT of a need for Luke to leave behind his attachments. Obi-Wan cautions him to not let the Emperor use those attachments against him, but that’s not the same thing. Also, Lucas was able to give the greenlight on plot points in the EU, so he must have been aware of and greenlit the Luke-Mara Jade romance and marriage and the New Jedi Order doctrine changes. Of course, he later said he disagreed with the idea of Luke getting married, but that was later.