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Servii

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11-Jul-2020
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18-Mar-2024
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Post
#1540308
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Spartacus01 said:

G&G-Fan said:

Servii said:

I was expecting it to be the Plinkett reviews. Nope, it’s the opposite lol

it’s the Ego the Living Planet of Prequel defenders

Channel72 said:

The Prequels are awesome because they’re stylistically designed to be that way.

G&G-Fan said:

Channel72 said:

The Prequels are awesome because they’re stylistically designed to be that way.

The Prequels are good because they quote shots better movies.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

thxlogofan17 said:

it’s hard for me to explain, so this video explains it for me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqnjzVX8EKA

Rick Worley?

You must be trolling? Or you would not have posted that the video was by him, and without saying it was by Rick Worley?

C;mon, your first post on an OT discussion forum is link to a video by Rick Worley

Can I be honest? Can I be truly, brutally honest?

The attitude of many members of this forum towards those who defend the Prequel Trilogy is reprehensible in my opinion. Okay, this is an OT discussion forum. So what? Does that mean that one can’t be free to defend the Prequel Trilogy? Does that mean that one must only talk badly about those movies? I myself have been the subject of similar criticism in the past, and even though I didn’t say it openly, I was very annoyed by this. Just because I said that the dialogue isn’t as bad as everyone says, I was treated with condescension, and it was very annoying for me.

You all should stop acting like you have absolute truth, because it can be very irritating. Don’t get me wrong, to discuss and criticize other people’s arguments is absolutely okay. But to act like “Yeah bro, sure, you can continue to carry out your wrong opinions, but the rest of us, who are all superior, will continue to say things as they are” is very irritating.

You claim to be a friendly forum where everyone can express their opinions freely, and you even boast to have numerous Prequel fans on here. But paradoxically, every time that a Prequel fan who actually tries to defend the movies pops up, he gets overwhelmed with criticism and condescending, or he’s even accused of being a troll solely because he says things that are different from the common thought on here. It happened to me, it happened to Stardust1138, it happened to other people, and it’s going to happen over and over again, because this place has become an echo chamber.

I suggest you all to grow up and learn to respect other people’s opinions.

Yeah. You’re right. It’s wrong to act all condescending about something like this. Prequel fans should be welcome here. Otherwise, we’re no better than the worst echo chambers.

Post
#1540217
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

The supposedly “new empowered crew” literally screws up and gets nearly everyone in the Resistance Killed whereas if Poe had listened to Leia and Holdo in the first place none of that would have happened but apparently them failing so hard that they almost singlehandedly destroy the entire resistance is them saving the day? The only reason the entire Resistance doesn’t die is because Leia wakes up from her coma and shoots Poe into unconsciousness

If Poe had listened to Leia, the Dreadnought would have followed the Resistance fleet through hyperspace and killed them all anyway with its super mega “fleet killer” cannon. Also, Leia stunning Poe was completely overkill. Her or Holdo could have literally said the phrase “They can’t track the smaller transports” at any point, and that whole plot wouldn’t have happened.

As for Rey, she basically doesn’t get trained in this movie. She teaches Luke more than he teaches her. And she still kicks the Praetorian guards’ butts and lifts a mountain of boulders seemingly effortlessly. And Kylo refusing to turn to the Light is moreso just a reflection of Kylo being a PoS, not Rey failing at something. She’s utterly morally superior in every situation. It’s not like with Luke and Yoda where Yoda is the source of wisdom and power that Luke needs to emulate. Rey is simply better than Luke, already. She didn’t need him at all.

Then he trolls his nephew, and dies from the effort, having done the absolute bare minimum of keeping a handful of Resistance alive.

Post
#1539973
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

If I had been an adult when TPM came out, and had waited 16 years for it, I definitely would’ve been disappointed. Even as a kid, I could tell there was something “different” about it compared to the OT. It felt almost like a different universe.

Despite that, though, I don’t actually think that TPM is a bad movie. It isn’t bad, really. It’s weird. It has weird priorities, and it makes a lot of strange choices.

AotC is bad. RotS is solid.

Post
#1539506
Topic
A '<strong>New Republic</strong>' era film (live action movie by Dave Filoni) - a general discussion thread
Time

Emre1601 said:

“according to regular leaker MTTSH, the title of the movie will be Heir to the Empire”:

https://lrmonline.com/news/filonis-star-wars-film-to-be-titled-heir-to-the-empire-barside-buzz/

and the leaker themselves: https://twitter.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1658472128189186049
 

I hope that is not the title. I can see it being the title. But I really hope it is not.

Oh, no.

Please don’t do this, Filoni.

Post
#1538591
Topic
What changes would you make to the Sequels?
Time

SparkySywer said:

What should Rey’s purpose in the wider saga be?

I’d just have her as Luke’s apprentice/niece from the start. The newly defected Finn meets her while she’s on a mission.

As for the wider saga, she’d be basically the heir to the Skywalker legacy like she was in the ST we got. Luke would be the Jedi grandmaster who’s training students, but he’d name Rey as his successor to lead the Jedi when he’s gone. There wouldn’t be any actual Sith involved in the story, so the Chosen One prophecy is still intact. And I’d go out of my way to more fully distinguish any Force-using villains from the Sith, both culturally and ideologically. Rey helps defeat them, helps maintain the New Republic, and so becomes the protector of what her family has helped build. Then she gets together with Finn, and so through them, the Skywalker line continues, and you’re left with the impression that the family will continue to preserve the peace they’ve created for the generations to come.

Post
#1538434
Topic
What's the most heated Star Wars argument you've gotten into?
Time

Fortunately, I don’t recall ever having a real-life argument about Star Wars. It’s not really something that’s worth getting heated about, whether IRL or online, and while I’ve gotten in online arguments before sometimes, I’d prefer not to.

Right after TFA as well as after TLJ came out, I talked with a few friends about our thoughts on the movie. The people I talked to generally liked it, we respectfully disagreed and discussed our thoughts on it, and that was the end of it. Even if I actually did get heated (which I wouldn’t), I’d never want to jeopardize a friendship over something trivial like that. I knew this guy online once who had a violent hostility toward ST fans. Like, he’d refuse to even associate with them, and would want them out of his life. To me, that’s just so small-minded and sad.

Post
#1537081
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

I’m still here, and on the StarWarsTrilogy forums, because I like to keep up-to-date on the progress of fan preservations. And because I like the community here, frankly. It’s one of the only Star Wars fan communities where you can be more skeptical and critical about Star Wars stuff. There’s something to be said for that.

Post
#1536602
Topic
Anyone else think Empire Strikes Back's Special Edition is actually better than the Theatrical Cut?
Time

Temeura Morrison as Boba Fett makes a lot of sense because he is objectively better at delivering his lines than Jason Wingreen did.

Most of your points I’d say are fair, but Jason Wingreen definitely did a better job with his lines. They sound way more menacing and less phoned in when he says them.

Post
#1536340
Topic
Approaching Star Wars canon
Time

I definitely think Lucasfilm should embrace a looser, softer approach to canon. Right now, the franchise is simultaneously really uptight about having a single, firm canon while also having plenty of contradictions within that canon. And I don’t think that casual viewers would really mind if they went for a looser approach.

I really don’t understand “canon purists.” They take the concept of canon more seriously than Lucasfilm itself does. And a lot of the Canon material is a remix of Legends source material, anyway.

Post
#1536177
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Channel72 said:

RogueLeader said:

If it Lucas Luke and Leia were going to be siblings from the very beginning, I do feel like he would’ve handled it differently. Yes, the trilogy is more so Luke’s story than anyone else’s, but the revelation and what it means for Luke isn’t given the same weight for Leia, even if the implication is pretty much the same.

Of course, Luke idealized his father, wanting to be like him, so discovering what his father became has this consequence of Luke wondering if he could become that too. Whereas when Leia was adopted by the Organas, they raised her as her parents. So I don’t think Leia ever spent much time wondering who her biological parents were, or wanting to be like them. The Organas were enough for her to look up to.

I know the EU and Canon both explore Leia’s feeling on Vader being her father a little, but it could’ve been interesting for the movies to explore that more.

There is a very strange, almost serendipitous scene in Empire Strikes Back that has always fascinated me. It happens after the scene where Chewie flips out and starts attacking Storm Troopers just before Han is about to be lowered into the carbon-freezing pit. Han intervenes and tries to calm Chewie down before things get out of control. While this is happening, Boba Fett aims his blaster at Chewie, but then Vader stops him from firing by pushing down the barrel of his blaster. Then - there’s this weird shot of Leia just staring at Vader for a few seconds. This is followed by a shot of Vader, seemingly staring back at her (although we can’t tell for sure because of his mask). Leia then walks over to Chewie and starts trying to calm him down. It’s the strangest thing, as if Leia and Vader instinctually exchanged some non-verbal agreement to prevent the situation from escalating further.

I know it can’t possibly mean much. The idea of Leia being Vader’s daughter didn’t exist when that scene was written and filmed. But it’s another one of those uncanny, serendipitous coincidences that takes on an interesting new dimension retroactively in light of later revelations.

Another thing I noticed, that definitely wasn’t intended but comes off as foreshadowing retroactively, is that when Yoda says “There is another,” the very next character we see is Leia, pacing around her hotel room. Obviously a coincidence, but it’s neat in hindsight.

Post
#1535617
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

G&G-Fan said:

Luke’s plan to rescue Han makes complete sense when you realize the reason his plan is so complex is because he’s going out of his way to not have to kill Jabba. Because that’s what Jedi do. Negotiate, not kill.

His first plan is to use the droids as a bargaining chip. Lando is planted there so he can get them out after Han is freed, and they lose nothing. That fails. So Leia’s sent in to free him, but she’s caught. Crap. So Luke has to go in himself. He calmly tries to negotiate with Jabba one last time, but he refuses. He knew about the Sarlacc, but not the Rancor, which is why he’s surprised by it. He planted the lightsaber in R2 in case he was gonna be thrown in the Sarlacc pit. Because otherwise they’d nab it off him when preparing to throw him in. And thus we get the sail barge scene.

Luke’s plan isn’t actually needlessly complicated, it’s just that we saw the worst possible scenario because Jabba is stubborn and insane.

I think this is the clearest layout for the “Plan A, Plan B” explanation. Rinzler’s Making of book actually goes into a bit of detail regarding what the plan was with Jabba.

“As one might expect, the rough draft tells a more convoluted story than the final film’s. In its general parts it is similar to the movie. In its details, however, the rough draft differs and in some ways excels. Luke’s plan to rescue Han, though overly complicated perhaps, is more logical than in its final form: It’s clear that his goal is to trick Jabba into the open, where it will be easier for Luke to do battle as a trained Jedi."

“The plan is to trick Jabba into taking Han Solo out of his fortress, as Luke has no hope of overpowering the crime lord and his vassals within his fortress.”

From the story meeting manuscript:

Lucas: What Luke wants to do is to get on that barge and the only way he can do it is as a prisoner. He has to become a prisoner and Chewie has to become a prisoner; they have to unfreeze Han and they all have to be at the same execution, which is what his plan is. He figures once he kills the rancor, then they have to go to the pit. He knows that’s where the execution is going to be anyway. What they do with ordinary nuisances, or solicitors, is they drop them into the rancor pit. Luke knows or doesn’t know that is what would happen, what kind of trap they have laid for him. He’s assuming that when he is discovered and when he is subdued, which he will be, that he is bound to end up with Han and Chewie in the skiff over the Sarlacc pit.
The plan is, “I am going to knock everybody overboard into the pit and we’re going take off”—but it goes a little awry because Boba Fett screws everything up and suddenly they are in trouble and they get into the fight.”
Kasdan: You can assume that Luke’s plan is multilayered and the court of last resort is they are going to take him to the Sarlacc pit and they’ll all be in place. But when he comes in and says, “I want to bargain for Han,” he is hoping that will work.
Lucas: Yes.

From the revised second draft

“Now when Solo comes out of the carbon block, Leia explains that he has hibernation sickness. When he asks who she is, Leia responds, “Someone who loves you.” After they’re captured, a new scene in a dungeon cell interior reunites Han and Chewie, with the latter explaining Luke’s plans to an incredulous Solo. When Luke arrives and has to face the rancor, Lucas fills in much of the action.

After Luke and the others are sentenced, the sub-stratagem of manipulating Jabba so that they’re taken out of the fortress has been dropped. Jabba makes the decision without Luke baiting him—but on the skiff, Luke explains to Han, “Jabba’s palace was too well guarded. I had to get you out of there. Just stay close to Chewie and Lando. We’ll take of everything.” Han: “I can hardly wait.”

Kasdan goes with the angle that Luke hoped he would be able to bargain for Jabba, but the Sarlacc was the last resort. I got the feeling Lucas was imagining that Luke knew Jabba would never give up Han, and everything was just meant to get the entire gang in the right place for the Sail Barge Assault. It makes sense if Lando came to the conclusion that bargaining with Jabba or escaping the fortress would be possible, and the only way Han would ever get out of there is if Jabba took him out himself… to be executed. I think in the end, elements of both interpretations were in the script.

And if you watch the film after Luke kills the Rancor, when 3PO tells them that they are going to be taken to the Sarlacc, you can see Luke nodding his head. It seems like this is what Luke expected. So I kind of see it as them going in knowing that getting to the Sarlacc as the main goal, and not the last resort. But like you said, if Jabba actually agreed to bargain, or if Leia managed to get Han out and Lando got the droids and Chewie, then that would’ve been a welcome surprise. I just got the feeling that Luke giving up the droids from the get-go shows that Luke has no intention of playing fair with Jabba. Which is understandable, since Jabba is a criminal and doesn’t play fair either. I think in the end, though, it was left intentionally vague because they weren’t 100% on which way to approach it.

This is more of a personal interpretation, but I like to think Luke foresaw what would happen on Tatooine. I think that would have satisfied most audiences questions, “Oh okay the Force, he saw what would happen”. Plus, it not only adds more reason for Luke to be so confident in what feels like a complex plan, but Luke luring Jabba into this trap parallels the Emperor luring the rebels into a trap that he also foresaw. The parallel plays into the inner darkness that Luke is in conflict with throughout the movie as well. I also think the Jabba sequence is more interesting if Luke’s emotions during it are a little more complicated. Yeah, he is playing the role of a Jedi wanting to avoid conflict at all costs, but I also get the feeling that a part of Luke wants Jabba to refuse so he can take him out and all of his minions. Yeah, not totally Zen of Luke, but I think it makes sense narratively for Luke to be dealing with that conflict at this point in the story. But the movie definitely plays it as a hero moment unquestioningly, which is fine.

I think it could have been an interesting element to introduce in the first act, though. Luke destroys Jabba and all of his minions, and he questions if violence was a last resort, or what he was actually hoping for. Then later, when we get to the Death Star, Luke actually wonders if Palpatine is right. Does he need the dark side to save his friends? Is that what saved them before? And even though Luke’s anger allows him to actually defeat Vader, Luke doesn’t let his emotions define him, or forever dominate his destiny. He throws his weapon away. Anyway, I think little things like this could have helped thematically tie the Jabba sequence even more with the rest of the film.

EDIT: I admittedly have not read to the ROTJ novelization, but a Tor article kind of summarizes the plot, comparing to the movie, and had this tidbit about the Sail Barge Assualt

The moral ambiguity of what Luke is doing to Jabba and his entourage is made more prevalent, as well as Luke’s uncertainty in how he’s meant to use his newfound power. In that way, Luke’s journey feels more cohesive, more transparent. He is being cocky on the sailbarge, and he is happy to destroy these people who caused pain to friends and neighbors.

“[Luke] found Jabba despicable–a leech of the galaxy, sucking the life from whatever he touched. Luke wanted to burn the villain, and so was actually rather glad Jabba had refused to bargain–for now Luke would get his wish precisely. Of course, his primary objective was to free his friends, whom he loved dearly; it was this concern that guided him now, above all else. But in the process, to free the universe from this gangster slug–this was a prospect that tinted Luke’s purpose with an ever-so-slightly dark satisfaction.”

And then, a few pages later:

“The deck gunners were lining up . . . their shots for the coup de grace, when Luke stepped in front of them, laughing like a pirate king. He lit his lightsaber before they could squeeze off a shot; a moment later they were smoking corpses.”

Obviously it isn’t canon, but it is interesting that the author had a similar interpretation as well.

This is a great post. I just read the RotJ novelization, and that part stood out to me as well.

I’ve personally come around to the fan interpretation that Luke is just really bad at organizing rescue plans, but he seemed so confident about it that everyone just went along with it, which is a funny idea to me. But yeah, the only point when he seems genuinely caught off-guard and his confidence falters is when he faces the Rancor. After that, he’s completely unfazed by the Sarlacc, smiling and nodding about it, as you mentioned.

Also, I agree with what G&G-fan said above that the lighter, goofier tone of the movie relative to ESB is a feature, not a flaw. ESB is the part of the story where everything’s going wrong and all these struggles and challenges are being thrown at the heroes that they’re not prepared for. RotJ is the reprieve when the tide starts to turn and the heroes find their footing again as a team. After the misery in the third act of ESB, we go into a goofy rescue adventure, and when the heroes fly off after the sail barge blows up, that’s a cathartic, triumphant moment for the audience as well. And it makes ESB’s ending even better in retrospect. Without the upturn after ESB’s downturn, the story would feel incomplete.

Post
#1535440
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

James1027 said:

This is my first post here, I have been browsing for years off and on. I love the more mature discussion.

Ok, it’s good to be here. Love the forum.

Welcome to the forum community! Yeah, that’s what I love about this place. You get a wide range of perspectives here. And I’m always interested to hear takes on the prequels from people who had time to speculate on them before they came out.

Post
#1535359
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Harmy said:

Hi, guys, I know I’ve been silent for a while but I’ve been working on a bit of a surprise quietly so stay tuned. And here and the youtube channel, as well as the facebook page are pretty much equally good for keeping up with updates.

I’m excited to see what you have cooked up, Harmy! I follow your YT channel and you’ve been doing great work.

Post
#1535078
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

G&G-Fan said:

Not saying I want that movie, but isn’t the whole appeal of spin-offs that they can almost be their own thing and not have to adhere to the style and feel of the saga films?

Sure they can, but within limits. And I think Star Wars should try to steer clear of glorifying him. I didn’t mind the Rogue One hallway scene, but I think a lot of fans took away the wrong idea from that scene.

Disney’s given us more then just cooler Vader. Season 1 & 2 of Mando were amazing. Din Djarin is a great character and I still love Grogu. Moff Gideon was a great villain and season 3 finally did what I thought wasn’t possible and made me like Bo-Katan.

Eh, Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty good, but I wouldn’t say amazing. I like Din’s relationship with Grogu, but he’s a pretty bland character when it comes down to it, and Moff Gideon started out alright but devolved into a cartoon villain by the end. I never saw TCW, so I never saw the extent of Bo-Katan’s crimes, but I didn’t really care about her or about Mandalore, to be honest.

Disney Star Wars gave us Andor, though and I’ll always be glad about that. The rest of it, I could take or leave.

Post
#1535054
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

G&G-Fan said:

George Lucas gave us Vader’s laughably pathetic “Nooooooo!”. Disney took that and made it badass.

Ya’ll saying Disney ruined Star Wars, idk what you’re smoking.

I’m pretty burnt out on “badass angsty slasher” Vader, and I think a lot of fans have this borderline hero worship of the character that goes too far. A lot of people want an R-rated slasher that’s just about Vader hunting Jedi, for example, but that goes against the spirit of Star Wars.

Post
#1534995
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

Part of the reason why I’m still involved with Star Wars is simply that I’m reading through the EU, so that keeps Star Wars on my mind. Also, my sister really wanted to watch Mando, so we binged it together and had a lot of thoughts on it, both positive and negative, and discussed and theorized a lot.

And Star Wars is just fascinating to me, both because it’s a great potential fantasy setting and because it’s a case study in franchise mismanagement. (I’m not just talking about post-2012 Star Wars. The problems started in 1997.)

Post
#1534955
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

If you had asked me a few years ago whether people would look more fondly on the Sequels in the future, I would’ve said “no.” But, after seeing the drastic turnaround for the Prequels’ perception, I’d say that anything is possible. It’s probably not going to happen to the same degree as the Prequels, but it will likely happen.

Most casual viewers just watched the ST, enjoyed it in a casual way, then moved on. They’re the silent majority of Star Wars viewers. Then you have the fans who are a little more enthusiastic and invested, so they can go either way but usually lean toward the positive side. Then you have the hardcore fans who feel very strongly one way or the other.

Post
#1534805
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

Based on Din’s conversation with the Republic pilot near the end, I think that the next season will probably take a lot of the story concepts from the cancelled Rangers of the New Republic show and transfer them over to Mando.

All in all, a pretty mediocre, rushed-feeling finale. I’m glad that Din and Grogu left Mandalore and are back to being front-and-center at the end, and I’m glad that the whole Moff Gideon story seems to be over. But a pretty weak episode, regardless.

Post
#1533864
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

So, I’ve watched the first 6 episodes of Season 3. I just finished the Lizzo episode. And I have to say…I kind of enjoyed it.

Yes, it was very dumb. Yes, it felt like a parody. And yes, my standards for Star Wars have fallen very, very low. And I’m absolutely not trying to claim that it was a good episode of television. But, I had fun with it. It embraced its corniness. And I had wanted to see a season of Mando where Din and Grogu just toured the galaxy together solving mysteries on fun planets, and this episode felt like the closest thing to that.

After this episode, I strongly suspect that they’re setting up Bo-Katan to be a protagonist on equal footing with Din, just in case Pedro Pascal decides to leave the show. And if that does happen, I don’t think it will work. And on that note, I think it would have been a much more interesting story to see Din become Mandalore, since unlike Bo, he doesn’t crave that power. A reluctant, unlikely leader rising up from obscurity to unite his people sounds like a great story.