Serling1979

I always liked the idea of a second apprentice. It would keep the whole who killed whom story a lot more ambiguous and would make a great reveal in ESB.

The good thing is that the PT offers a lot of potential for these changes. It might sound crazy but we see Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan because we saw the movies.

Ewan and Alec resemble each other but what if Qui-Gon never existed. What if Liam Neeson played Obi-Wan and Ewan and Hayden would play Ani and Darth, respectively. There aren't enough scenes with Liam Neeson in the Episode 1 and it would take a lot of redubs of scenes with Ewan and Hayden to make them totally new characters.

It would be a lot of work but the interaction between the two actors is already there. You would just need to change the tone of the scenes and what the scenes are about. The visual clumsiness of the PT (Obi-Wan=light colored clothes=good guy and Ani=dark colored clothes=bad guy) could be turned into something really symbolic.

What do you think?

KazolOrajia said:

I'll actually be immensely satisfied if the OT doesn't get a 3D conversion. I don't want any more money being made from the garbage that the current ''definitive'' version of the OT is.

I wouldn't mind a good conversion. The OT has some great scenes that would look fantastic in 3D if it's done right. But I wouldn't pay money to see the conversion done on the Blu ray version. That's just not worth it.

doubleofive said:

 

Thanks for posting the picture, 005. The angle of the gate is different. I believe it was changed just to make it more appealing in the 3D version.

005, you fail to see George's true vision. Jabba's palace is basically an inverted version of Mary Poppin's bag. Big on the outside and small on the inside. ;)

I don't think that Lucas will make a new scan of the OT. Technically speaking, there is no reason why he must make a new scan. Some crappy 3D in post and that is basically all we're getting. Look at the Blu ray version of the OT. The new changes just scream 3D. The rock in front of R2's hiding spot in ANH and the new front of Jabba's palace in ROTJ. We will geht another version of Lowry's scan with additional changes. It won't live up to anyone's standards of 3D and Lucas will blame it on the OT's age. And still, people will just walk into theatres because it's Star Wars on the big screen and in 3D.

I love this version. There are so many scenes where you are surprised by a scene going in a totally different direction than what you are used to. Thanks for doing this.

I made a German subtitle file based on the English one and would like to share it with everyone if that is okay with you, TMBTM.

I can't decide. It's either:

How can they be jamming us if they don't know we're coming? - from ROTJ
I always loved the scene. It's my favorite piece of score by Williams paired with that look of despair on Lando's face. Got goosebumps the first moment I saw it and still get them today.

or:

The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. - from ANH
I just love to listen to Kenobi telling this. Guinness makes it so easy to forget that he is an actor.

Leia: Only in a leap from the lion's head shall he prove his worth.

Watched the first seventeen minutes on the weekend and some gags are just hillarious.

One thing that I think was excellent was Jar Jar's squeaky shoes. When he let's Obi Wan and Anakin inside he shifts his weight from one foot to the other. Maybe you could add half-a-squeak? Just an idea. Can't wait to see more. Kudos on 10 Go to Kamino line. I didn't stop laughing for half an hour.

greenpenguino said:

Lando: Samuel L. Jackson

Lando is Mace Windu's son? This universe is shrinking by the minute.

SilverWook said:

You'd think he don some clever disguise, and sit in on some screenings this weekend. ;)

Remember Chaplin? ;-) Lucas could go as he is and the audience would say that his "costume" is not realistic enough.

Well, Lucas gave another interview. And I have to say that I am giving up hope that he will ever release the original versions. What makes me really sad is that I don't give a damn anymore. Sure, my VHS tapes look like shit. But they are real and I can touch them (and watch them). I know that the colors are off, the resolution is crappy and so on.

I just read this (a review of TPM 3D):

Almost 13 years ago, George Lucas brought out the first of his hugely anticipated Star Wars prequel trilogy, and it turned out to be the biggest, dampest squib of modern times. It was a pop-culture calamity, a soulless, passionless film whose only real effect was to smudge the happy memories of the three originals.

And I realized that this is all he does. Smudge the happy memories. I hope that sooner or later we will have the original versions in great quality and we will be able to tell Lucas to go somewhere else with his vision.

I still hope for the original versions from some of the talented people here and not by Lucas. Because he would find a way to smudge the memories again.

Sorry, if I got a little too emotional there but I have finally given up on Lucas. (Not on Star Wars, though.)

Thinking about it, I would love to hear Count Dookula say this line to Obi-Wan on Geonosis.
"You may come and go as you please. My secrets guard themselves."
It's from The last Unicorn. Though it might be not funny, it always striked me as fitting.

doubleofive said:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/89537
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/89546

Okay, now I am stuck in a loop forcing Luke to make upside down jumping jacks and play the "where is Vader's neck" game the whole day.

ESB:R looks very good though.

Further changes are inevitable. The Blu-ray was a test of creating new scenes like the SE was a test of what could be done at that time. Look at that scene with R2 and the new rocks in front of him. Perfect shot for 3D right there. Same goes with Jabba's palace gate. The news scenes reek of poor 3D effects just waiting to happen.

Tyrphanax said:

timdiggerm said:

DominicCobb said:

Serling1979 said:

And which one is the worst? *runs for cover*

Not the worst per se, but I never liked the vocal backing to the celebration at the end of TPM. Other than that I can't think of anything. Except Jedi Rocks.

The chorus is a little weird there... but it is the Emperor's Theme in a different key/octave/tempo, so that's pretty cool.

Mind blown.

Didn't know that. Okay, mission for today, listen to the scores.

And which one is the worst? *runs for cover*

My personal favorite is "Into the Trap" from ROTJ. I love this build-up. Williams stacks more and more on top of the same piece of notes. Another one is the Asteroid Field from ESB which is so wonderfully dramatic and soft at the same time. Third one would be the Emperor's March. I have heard that one so often that I couldn't stand it for some time.

The funny thing is the more I think about the more excellent themes there are. Williams really did a fantastic job in making it so easy to listen to that you sometimes forget that it's a score. While some scores just don't work without the movie attached to it, Williams' scores work without any visual material. Partly this is why they are so popular. I guess.

I am not surprised. Lucas has done everything to keep the OT from resurfacing. But as Puggo said, we have excellent de-specialized versions, fanedits and preservations.

But what could the LoC have done? Take the film by force? All they can do is ask Lucas for the prints and I admire their balls to decline the offer of the SE.

Lucas is a mastermind for covering all of his tracks. But sooner or later, something will happen that he didn't think of and the OT will be made available, one way or another. I hope he is still alive when that happens to see his plan fail.

SilverWook said:

Blu Ray is being sold in stores that never carried Laserdiscs. There was a time in the late 80's/early 90's I had to plan a trip to Los Angeles just to buy them.

The players broke the magic $100 barrier last Christmas. The cheapest low end LD player would have set you back four hundred at the very least.

And there's a Blu Ray bargain bin at my local supermarket. I bought The Dark Crystal for ten bucks! I paid nearly a hundred bucks for the Collector's Edition LD back in the day.

How sweet it is now. ;)

 

Harmy said:

And it would also be good to point out that unlike other formats such as Betamax or CED, the LD format lived happily alongside VHS for over 20yrs. I wouldn't call that a failure.

You both got a point there. But these are different times. Most people bought a DVD player when it came out. I can buy one for $40 or less. And I clearly remember the marketing guys talking about the supreme quality that DVD put on the screen. It's an optical marvel. And that is exactly why it sold so well. Blu-ray is a very worthy opponent and while BD will sell well it will never reach what DVD sold. The life cycle of between DVD and BD is much shorter than it was between VHS and DVD. And we are talking about this very big issue of giving up your collection (VHS) in favor of DVD because it was not compatible. If BD players hadn't been able to read DVDs would you really think that the consumer would readily have swallowed the bait.

BD sells well and will do so in the future but it is not that much of an invention. So calling it a failure is very harsh. It has a lot of potential but not as much as the DVD had back in the day.

Harmy said:

Actually, I think that the comparison of BD to LD is quite accurate in the sense that BD is to DVD what LD was to VHS (here's hoping that BD will become somewhat more mainstream though).

 

I think this is the reason why BD will ultimately fail. There is nothing wrong with BD but there is nothing exceptionally new about it either. It's like a DVD but with higher resolution and while HD-TVs have become more common so have upscaling algorithms. Do I shell out another $20 to get the movie on Blu-ray or do I use my DVD? It's like the Star Trek rule, every movie with an odd number, or every other Bond being terrible (though Timothy Dalton was just mis-cast). It's just that DVD was such a revolution that BD didn't have enough new stuff to offer. Whatever the next home video medium will be, it will rock in terms of sales but BD, while still a good medium, is bound to crash.

All in all, it had been some exciting news when I first heard that Star Wars would be released on BR..... uhhh.... BD. Well, because, you know, it's Star Wars on Blu-ray. (Oh boy, this one gets never old.)

But nevertheless, it was total let down from the first day to the final release. I love Star Wars and I can live with the Prequels. But these constant changes can mean only one thing.
Invasion...

GL will invade every home video release of Star Wars with yet another change. And I bet that the rock formation R2 is hiding behind is the first change of what we will see in the 3D version of ANH. Makes total sense, cause (I saw some of the scenes on youtube - so the limited quality might prove me wrong) that shot has a clear foreground, middle and background. Perfect for 3D. Jabba's gate is basically the same thing though in a very crude form (which is not to say that we will see a better version of that scene in the 3D version, 'cause every change so far could have been done better by a six year old with a broken C64).

Anyway, the threat by LFL (I am not sure if it is a threat or a blessing) to not release the OT in 3D without the success of the PT is irrelevant. Because, you know what, it' Star Wars in 3D and after that it will be Star Wars in 3D on BD. That has cash cow written all over it. And after that, the people will willingly buy the 4K version. GL has created something that I didn't think was possible: unlimited, unconditional demand (for a lot of 'fans').

The following is off-topic:

Blu-ray in general
Blu-ray hasn't been the revelation I expected it to be. I imagined separate tracks for music, sound effects and voices. Which could be mixed on the fly which would have been awesome (not only for fan edits but for the hard of hearing (I agree that it would be a sacrilege to watch Star Wars without the score but it might prove to be a little more comfortable for anyone who has a hard time understanding the dialogue over the music. I would have really loved this feature.

I am actually very happy to have read that interview with Spielberg. Alterations are basically up to the creator. (Don't get me wrong. I am totally against any "Nooooooo" debacles or annoying characters.)

Ridley Scott, i.e., can actually make any alterations to Blade Runner. I will even watch them because he has the decency to give the audience all versions (and while some won't understand it, I love the Ford commentary at the beginning.) It's is up to me do decide which version I would like to watch. Once given this choice for Star Wars I think none of us would really be against any alterations for all versions to come. At least, I wouldn't mind. As long as we can go back to a high quality scan of the version we all love.

Back on topic, I would like to say that Spielberg altered E.T. quite heavily (political correctness yeeeeaaaahhhh). Unfortunately, the original version was not available at first. Due to massive feedback the original got released as a double feature if I remember correctly. I still have that altered version on DVD on my shelf. Haven't watched it a single time after I found out that the original version wasn't on it. If Spielberg changed his mind (which rectified the whole situation for me), might it just be possible that one day Lucas will too?

Anyway, CGI is neither bad nor good. It's another tool in the box and for some scenes it is the right tool. While I totally agree that CGI make some things look utterly fake I have to say that it worked in so many movies where old school techniques would have failed. The T-1000 being only one example. Some directors try to substitute a plot with flashy CGI. This has never worked. I guess it will all balance itself. Some stuff will be done with green screen and other stuff the old fashioned way. Except for some of the battle scenes LOTR is the perfect example for a mix of CGI and the old tricks working hand in hand.

msycamore said:

Do you happen to know if this Super-8 of yours also is sourced from 70mm version material like Puggo's was? see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/post/268442/#TopicPost268442

I have read somewhere that the S8 version was sourced from the 70mm. I could check to make sure.

Serling

Thanks for replies. Sorry for being gone for some time but I was on vacation (first time this year) and when I returned the internet connection was gone (maybe on vacation, I am not sure). My provider is trying to hook me up again.

red5-626 said:

Is the hole Emperor hologram seen on there?

It should be the complete scene. I haven't seen that scene for some time, so I am not 100% sure it is complete.

none said:

Thanks for posting these.  It's nice to periodically be reminded of the effects of time on these films.  Being all red, they look other worldly.

Actually it's even worse. When I sent it out get the scan done I smelled vinegar. So, it's just a question of time until it is gone for good. Made the scan much more valuable.

none said:

Thanks for showing what you're up to, would like to see them if that's your goal.  How'd you find the this Super8?

Bought it on the bay. Paid about $30 for it. The same goes for ANH (no scan for that one I am afraid). They are not that rare.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Is it stereo or mono?

I checked the scan and the audio track was recorded in stereo. Didn't have the time to check if it is true stereo. I am not sure if S8 was capable of stereo.

none said:

The german crawl, subtitles and credits are other things the community is looking to preserve.  Were these TV recordings part of a special, do they have intros?  In the US this was done several times.  In the 90s for instance Carrie Fisher and Billy Dee Williams hosted the broadcast of the trilogy.  I've been able to digitize 5 of these 6.  Still looking for ESB w/ Fisher.

No intros on the recordings. I don't think there ever was a german version with an intro (maybe too expensive to dub it). The crawls are a bit shaky (the tapes are too old), but the credits and the subtitles should be okay for a $15-digitizer.

Serling

These are selected scenes only. Maybe around 35 minutes. I will check if it's stereo or mono when I get back from work but I am pretty sure that it is mono.

I am digitizing old tv recordings of all three movies (recordings must be from around 1993). So they are all pre-SE, even without A New Hope in the crawl. This might provide german audio tracks for all three films. The tapes aren't the best quality (still better than I thought), mostly video distortions.

I am still fiddling with the capturing process. I am using VirtualDub but the sound has a lot of noise. Must be something wrong with the settings.

Hi,
here are some screenshots. I saved them as jpegs to reduce the file size. As I said it is heavy on the red but while tinkering with it I got some good resuts.

Hope this works.

Edit: Okay, didn't work. Here are the URLs:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/vlcsnap00001r.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/vlcsnap00002no.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/vlcsnap00003sy.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/vlcsnap2011083019h12m02.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/143/vlcsnap2011083019h12m46.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/vlcsnap2011083019h13m13.jpg/