Sepharih

Vladius said:

In other news, I think it's too unclear that Darth Vader disapproves of the Emperor electrocuting his son. He should say "no," maybe once or twice. And just to be sure we know his suit is malfunctioning after it's zapped, there should be sparks coming out of it.

It's also not clear that the stormtroopers on Tatooine are not on an alien planet. We need to rectify this with dinosaurs. Speaking of which, Tatooine isn't strange enough, there needs to be some cartoony antics in the background with robots and jawas or something, maybe when the landspeeder first goes into Mos Eisley?

It's also unclear what Han Solo's motivation for shooting Greedo is, I mean, how is he going to get him all the way to Jabba without Han escaping? Maybe if Greedo shot at him first it would make more sense.

Oh wow, we could go so far with this. I think it's too unclear that Luke is afraid when falling down a giant pit, he should be screaming a little bit. He should also be crying out in terror when the wampa attacks, and there should be little blue flames coming out of his mouth to show that he's scared. Maybe we can rotoscope in some little "tendrils" of the Force to show that he's using the Force to pick up his lightsaber. And the wampa should be more visible, we should see it a lot so that it's more scarier.

Yeah, sorry, but I'm not buying that the scene does what i'm talking about "subtly" when Palpatine's dialogue flat out contradicts what I'm talking about.

Also, I like subtlety.  I made a post about it quite a while ago in reference to palpatine's appearance and a proposed subplot to explain it.

That said, there's a difference between subtlety implying motivation/information, and not saying/implying it at all and/or showing the exact opposite.

Isn't it a bit of both though?  It starts out as choice to use it to reach a specific goal....then it becomes a dependence, and before you know it you are lost.

The problem I have with the meth analogy is I think it undercuts the character's choice and free will by making it have such an overpowering unbreakable influence for such a quick immediate act.

Vladius said:

1. It's not complete and total, but it's on the same path ("once you start on the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny," it's gradual but requires a start, this is the start)

That'd be fine, except this and vader's sacrifice is supposed to be the climax of the movie.  Kinda falls flat for me in that context.

2. It's not one moment because the entirety of the scene is the "moments" when he's having inner conflict

Too much too fast.....at least without proper context.

3. It's also not one moment because it's already shown that he can recklessly act for his emotions in the previous movie when he goes to Cloud City against the wishes of people wiser than he is

Yeah....but it's about the choice.  He chose to try and help his friends against his teachers wishes and it put them both at risk.  His "choice" here feels more like "fall to the darkside" or "don't fall to the darkside" to me.  

Vladius said:

There are, you're not seeing them.
You think that he's turning to the dark side when he attacks Vader, he's not. He's angry at the idea that Vader will try to turn Leia, along with everything else that happened, but that's the thing that makes him actually start attacking. It's well established already that they love each other, romantically or platonically, in all three of the movies. In the same movie, Luke has rescued Leia and showed concern for her well being. There is a scene where he tells her that they're brother and sister.

His "near turn" is within the duel after he starts attacking, when he goes from participating to becoming the aggressor. This is because he is using his anger to help him succeed, which has natural consquences that are also well established. That's why he looks surprised and disturbed with himself after cutting off Vader's hand. He's realizing that he's gone farther than he intended to.

That's fine, but at what point can we suspend our disbelief to think that Luke would actually turn to the darkside here?  If one moment of weakness and anger is truly enough to cause a complete and total fall to darkness without any other motivation for our main character it makes the story feel extremely shallow to me.

Vladius said:

 That's the problem, you're oversimplifying a situation that was never simple. It's partially the Emperor/Darth Vader's influence in the Force, y'know, like Yoda and Obi Wan told Luke many times over the course of both ESB and ROTJ, and partially Luke's other motivations, which the Emperor exploits.

 

I'm saying that there should be more established and better developed motivations for Luke's near turn.....and you're saying that it's the emperor's power of persuasion in the force that defies rational.

How am I the one oversimplifying this?

Vladius said:

The point of the tension is not "oh no, Luke is going to turn to the dark side," which might be your problem.

What?  How is that not the case?  Sure, there's tons of things going on but that's absolutely a part of the conflict.

Vladius said:

Then don't watch Star Wars I guess. (???)
Is Obi Wan tricking a storm trooper because the storm trooper is a less powerful mind 10x the cop out of him dicing them to pieces with a lightsaber?

The thing is, he does both.
He does both with Anakin, you seem to have no problems with that. He wants the power to save Padme, his love, who he fears losing, and to kill the Tusken Raiders in vengeance for his mother's sake.
Why is it wrong when it's done in a more subtle way? Luke wants the power to save his friends, who he loves, who he fears losing, and to kill Darth Vader and the Emperor out of vengeance for the ones already lost.

I do have problems with Anakin's turn.  My problem with Luke's near turn is that while it has a decent amount of buildup and drama.....the motivation is not clear and therefore kills tension.  My problem with Anakin's turn is that his motivation makes sense (within the context of the story mind you)....but it's far too sudden and too much like a switch going off that it hurts the story.

Tricking a stormtrooper is a plot device/character development for obi-wan kenobi.  The problem I have isn't that it disobeys the rules of the universe, but that explaining Luke/Anakin's motivation as simply the emperor's influence in the force makes for a less compelling story.

Vladius said:

 No, it's just more subtle. Can't the audience figure it out on their own that killing the Emperor is part of the victory, and leads to the celebration across the galaxy later on? Just like how people with the Force being angry does not mean they suddenly get yellow eyes, but it's still clear that they're angry and that the Force intensifies their feelings.

He's persuading him through multiple angles - through vengeance and anger, through exploiting his compassion ("they do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor,") through his desire for power.

You're acting like all these things come out of left field with no precedent, when Obi Wan and Yoda told Luke already. They told him to confront Vader, something he already struggled with - now that he has a reason to be angry at Vader, he snaps. He had to hide in order to avoid fighting him. You can see the concern and stress on his face, he feels overwhelmed psychologically from the weight of the Emperor and Vader tempting him, like Frodo with the Ring. It's clearly implied that even if there is no specific goal that Luke would achieve, the Emperor's powers of persuasion are powerful enough to defy reason.

Sorry....but saying the emperor's powers of persuasion are powerful enough to defy reason as a way to explain lack of character motivation is 10x the cop-out of giving someone yellow eyes to indicate they're evil in my book.

It does come out of left field for me, because the fact that he's had time to steel himself and he's been told by everyone how conniving palpatine is and to not underestimate him means that palpatine needs to have a pretty big ace up his sleeve to get to him.  He does, in fact, have such an ace....but he plays it totally wrong in my view to have any reasonable tension in the scene.

He should have played up on Luke's compassion towards his friends and his desire to save them (mirroring anakin's fall more), trying to convince him to give in to temptation....to do just a little evil to do a greater good.

Instead he pretty much barks about how Luke has already fallen and just doesn't realize it yet, to give into his anger towards palpatine because there is no hope left already, and to strike in vengeance and turn to darkness.

Vladius said:

 

Vladius said:

...the Emperor shows Luke that the rebels are losing and that he can save them by turning,

I disagree....and if that is what he's saying it's not well established.  The only thing he plays on is getting luke to strike him down in anger....when does he imply that if he turns he can spare the rebels?

 

 Were you asleep when he mentioned how badly the rebels were losing, "see for yourself," and then told Luke, multiple times, to take his weapon and kill him?

...did you read my post?

The only thing he does is tell luke to strike him down in VENGANCE for what he has done.  He even flat out tells Luke "strike me down, and your Journey towards the darkside will be complete!!!"

Where in that does he say "be my servant and I will spare your friends".  Or "learn my power, surpass me....power to save your friends."

Now that WOULD have made his close turn far more convincing....but that's not the direction they went.

muddyknees2000 said:

Its never said that once turned he'd serve the emperor. (thats the emperors plan....but who's to say what would happen) He's wild with anger...for all we know he could have slayed Vader, then turned on the emperor and taken all the power for himself. Its all possibilities at that point.

Ok, fine, you can argue that.....but even if that is the case it feels about as much like a switch getting flipped as Anakin's turn did to me.  Obviously, of course, he did not turn....but i've never felt any tension in that scene to be honest.

muddyknees2000 said:

Sepharih said:

 

Anakin at least had an established reason for wanting to become the emperor's apprentice....but luke has no such motivation. There are subplots which could have been established to give him more motivation.....

 Like threatening to turn his sister to the dark side?

Again, i get him lashing out at Vader in anger because of that line and it's extremely dramatic...but that still doesn't exactly give him reason to serve the emperor after the fact....especially considering she's on the frontlines of battle...and it's not even made clear that vader and/or the emperor know who she is.

buddy-x-wing said:

to be honest, I'd rather Ady got rid of all traces of 'Sith Eyes' in the prequals,  it was a cheap and lazy plot device to try and make Anakin's TURN more convincing.  The acting wasn't quite there, neither was the dialogue and his motivation wasn't entirely convincing "LIGHTBULB"  I Know lets give him crazy glowing eyes so that the audience knows he's officially bad!

I think it's a fair and valid argument to say that the whole sith eye concept is lazy....but as an alternate perspective; film is a visually oriented medium after all, and lazy or not I do think it works in its intention....which is to make Anakin look more convincingly evil and provide a visual cue at his dark state.

Conversely.....and I know this won't make me any friends.....Luke's 'near turn' has always felt really flat to me.  I won't deny that him charging vader in anger a few moments prior is one of the most dramatic moments in the movies, especially with John Williams haunting music in the background....but the implication of it has always left me scratching my head.

Anakin at least had an established reason for wanting to become the emperor's apprentice....but luke has no such motivation.  It's never felt believable to me that he was really that close to falling to the darkside. There are subplots which could have been established to give him more motivation.....but none of them were ever introduced.  Giving him sith eyes might be a copout......but I don't think it's a horrible idea.

teharri said:

 

Brilliant i say!  Brilliant!  Absolutely iconic!

So, we have a shot of the jedi temple like that (in hd no less) but do we have enough/appropriate footage of anakin to create a full shot?

sans_fi said:

Doesnt make much sense... First of all, he also said "Once more the Sith will ruuuuule the galaxy"
Secondly, doesnt make much sense to imbred the clones with such order "if i die, all the clones should die with me". Its like saying "If I die, i dont want the bad guys to keep ruling anymore, just leave the galaxy to the good guys" Im guessing even if he dies he prefers the galaxy to be ruled by a Sith than by a good guy.

Well yeah, he'd prefer that....but when he dies, that's not exactly an option.  He has no heirs.  He never intended for Vader to succeed him after the events of ROTS, and he was counting on turning Luke....which didn't work out so well for him.

I feel like Palpatine almost wouldn't even care to make a distinction between a lesser imperial officer ruling and the republic returning.  To him....it's all or nothing.  Either he himself and/or the sith have absolute power....or it's meaningless to him.

I don't know how I feel about turning the celebration scenes into just riots though and implying that more fighting has to happen though.....cause I feel like that's kind of a sad note to end the series on.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this is a radical idea inspired by the awesome ideas of bringing the characters to coruscant in ROTJ and I thought a lot about it early this morning.  Maybe i'm crazy, but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

How about inserting a scene/sequence in ROTJ or earlier in the series at some point which explains that the fate of the clone/storm troopers is tied directly to the Emperor's life? IE, it's bred into them just like order 66?

That may seem crazy/illogical and awfully convenient for our characters.....but really think about it. Does it not fit perfectly with Palpatine's character?  Remember, he is meant to be the ultimate embodiment of avarice, and he is distrustful of EVERYONE. Tying his own fate to the clones insures that there is no plot against him in the power structure, because to do so would remove the first and last line of defense in the imperial navy.

Moreoever, it fits with everything that is established about Palpatine and the sith (Rule of two), consolidating all power to himself, without any consideration given to what would happen should he fall.

Despite what the expanded universe might have you believe, he would have absolutely zero interest in a grand admiral Thrawn or any leader of the empire beyond himself or, at the very most, one of his sith heirs. Such an idea would likely repulse him every bit as much as a new republic because it would be someone he viewed as a “lesser” taking command of all that he had built.

Like or hate Episode III, the quote was extremely appropriate: “I AM the senate.” In Palpatine's ultimate view of the world, he IS the Empire. Without him, or a proper heir, there is nothing he cares to give consideration for. The entire empire can crumble into the dust for all he cares.  This isn't even that out of line with the themes of the expanded universe which speculates that the loss of Palpatine's “battle mediation” force ability caused the imperical forces on endor to fall apart without his influence.

Adding this subplot would:

1) make it more believable that the empire could fall almost overnight as it seems too. In this version of the movie the capital would have been taken over and the backbone of their military has been obliterated, with nothing but the officers holding the bag. Not so crazy anymore.

2) make Anakin and what he does that much more important, because it cements the idea that without his final choice none of this would have been possible. The emperor would have simply killed luke and the rebels would have been crushed. Plus it also parallels his victory in episode 1.

So as for exactly what happens to the troopers once the emperor dies, I'm not 100% on how it should be handled, but my ideas include:

A) They die, instantly, falling over dead the moment the emperor is...... “shafted”.

B) They shut down, go brain dead, little more than droids with their memories wiped.

C) They lose the will to fight. A scene could be included with a stormtrooper laying down arms and an officer screaming “WHAT ARE YOU DOING!??! Fight to the death for the empire!!!!” and the stormtrooper could perhaps grab him by the collar, look him in the eye and go “What Empire? Who commands it exactly?”

D) Probably WAAAAAY too dark......but they commit quasi-seppaku. IE, they realize they've failed in their mission to protect their emperor, and so they take their own lives in penance.

Darth Editous said:

 

Sepharih said:

There were roman letters in the original release of ANH and ESB...

In ESB? Where?

ANH still has modern, umm, Terran (Arabic) characters in the stylised form of "94" on the docking bay wall.

DE

 

In the x-wing, when R2 and luke are talking, wasn't the readout originally in english?

I know that the numerical characters are the same.....but they've still all but purged the lettering from the movies, and if we're going to split hairs i'd sooner remove the more terrestrial numbers then I would restore letters.

Monroville said:

Sepharih said:

Monroville said:

Here's something that came to me the other day: considering in ANH Tarkin doesn't go after an actual threat (pirates, thugs, an actual military threat) but a peaceful world with no weapons JUST for the sake of demoralizing Princess Leia (well... it was her homeworld), would it be conceivable that it was Alderaan's destruction that really got the Rebellion going and (with Adobe and other FX programs) write "Remember Alderaan" on the side of some of the larger ships in the JEDI battle?

 

That would be a GREAT idea..........except for one problem.  Aurebesh.

True, but is Aurebesh the universal language in STAR WARS?  And wasn't there english text in ANH (the tractor beam console, etc)?  Anyways, just an idea.. maybe if the "Remember Alderaan" were done in an Aurebesh font (as opposed to Arial or Times New Roman)?

Well....it's universal in the same way Basic is universal.  It's the most widely used language in the GFFA.

There were roman letters in the original release of ANH and ESB...but the DVD and subsequent releases have removed them and replaced them with Aurebesh.  It's one of the best and most appropriate changes that was made to the movies IMHO....makes the world more fleshed out and fully realized.

Again, I like the idea of "Remember Alderaan" and it fits really well with the WWII inspired dogfights....but it would break continuity to have english text, and while putting it in Aurebesh would be a nice little touch for newer assets...it's a lot of work to put on existing ships when most people won't even be able to see what it means.

Monroville said:

Here's something that came to me the other day: considering in ANH Tarkin doesn't go after an actual threat (pirates, thugs, an actual military threat) but a peaceful world with no weapons JUST for the sake of demoralizing Princess Leia (well... it was her homeworld), would it be conceivable that it was Alderaan's destruction that really got the Rebellion going and (with Adobe and other FX programs) write "Remember Alderaan" on the side of some of the larger ships in the JEDI battle?

That would be a GREAT idea..........except for one problem.  Aurebesh.

Asteroid-Man said:

Mr Ghostface said:

Why the hell would you WANT to change that scene? It doesn't look that way because of a technical error for heaven's sake.

Because it WAS a technical error - the footage was incorrectly transferred at 24 frames per second and then slowed down in post. For it to be considered an "artistic" approach would just be ignorant; you can argue that for a film like Gladiator which uses choppy slow-mo in a time where 60fps film is readily available, but the shoddy frame rate in that scene from ESB is a technical issue. The matte paintings stood well in their time and have gotten a bit of a boost, so why not this scene? It doesn't change the tone of the scene, nor does it change the story or pace of the film.

I'm all for this change.

Wait...really!??!  I always assumed that was an artistic choice......there a source to confirm this?

Personally, I wouldn't mind enhancing that sequence in some way if there's a good idea....but I think it works fine as it currently is...intentional or not.  The choppy framerate gives it an almost dream like surreal effect.....works well with the tone of the scene.

If the idea is for him to just be meditating, I think it's fine.  If you want to work his lightsaber construction in somehow though...putting it in the darkside cave is a really bad idea because it contradicts his failure in the cave from empire.

"Your weapons....you will not need them."

ben_danger said:

okay, here is a ROUGH (and i mean rough) idea for an alternative dagobah opening/early scene. i was thinking perhaps placed after vader first visits the death star. this would also precede yoda dying, although the possibility of of breaking the two scenes up with some of the jabbas palace story would work.

this would follow the assumption that luke has been training since ESB, and that building his lightsaber is the final stage of his training. throughout the scene yoda would be weezing and showing signs of extreme old age. also some recoulourng/tweeking would be needed to alter lukes appearance so its less obvious where it is sourced from.

i had the idea after finishing though, that enstead of yoda giving luke the crystal, perhaps we could also see yoda's lightsaber de-constructed (assuming he had one and never lost it) so there would be an element of master-apprentice handing down.

i think the lighting could be better tweakied, so it is in almost complete darkness, so when the lighsaber is lit, the scene is flooded with green light. POW.

excuse the music, i think something more sombre would work much better in hindsight....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4

Even in its rough form.....that sequence just gave me chills.  This is exactly what was missing from Luke's character development in jedi.  This is the defining moment where he stops being a farmboy playing jedi and becomes the character we see through the rest of the movie.

I completely disagree with your own criticisms actually.

1.  Don't show him deconstructing Yoda's lightsaber.  What makes the sequence so much more effective is that to a first time viewer it's not even immediately clear what's happening here.  It looks at first like it's just more telekensis training....and then when the crystal appears the music hits at just the right moment when the audience figures out what he's doing.

2.  The music is perfect.  It harkens back to Luke's failure of lifting the X-wing, and Yoda showing him what he can accomplish if he sets his mind too it.  This is his moment, his triumph, so it should parallel that scene.

I would however change it so that Yoda is watching from the side, rather than on luke's back.  It shows that Luke no longer needs yoda to litterally look over his shoulder in his training.  His master has nothing more to teach him now, and merely watches from afare at how far his pupil has come.

So help me.....somehow.....we must make this so.

I freely admit that this is rather insane nitpicking and a massive hypothetical workload for a purely aesthetic reason, and I know everyone who hated the PT jedi robes will disagree..........but:

One thing I actually dislike in ROTJ, and always have, is Luke's costume.  I understand the symbolism of him going from white (ANH), to grey (ESB), to black in ROTJ to reflect his growth and maturity.....but to me it contradicts the more important visual element of black representing the sith and/or the darkside.

Now of course you can argue that black is supposed to represent how he is still struggling with the temptation of the darkside.....but that still rings hollow to me because if anything that should mean black on black is still too strong for his character.  Instead, I would change it to something more reflecting anakin's clothes:

http://youtu.be/0T4NGI5-D-0

Now the rotoscoping effect for that clip alone took me an hour or two which means that it'd be pretty crazy for anyone to try and do the whole thing so it's probably not viable....but I did like the result and it was fun to stretch my legs on rotoscoping again.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's been discussed before, but one thing I would do is remove this guy from the separatists meeting in AOTC:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wat_Tambor

1. Because his design is really silly.

2. You could replace him with Grevious with little difficulty and thus make his appearance in Episode III significantly less jarring if you haven't seen the clone wars cartoon.

Bingowings said:

I don't think it's in the same league as the midichlorians as a proposed explanation.

Is the holy grail pseudo science?

Is the ark of the covenant?

It could be an ancient Sith artifact that Palpatine wanted to retrieve that the people of Naboo hold without remembering what it originally was for.

The observation that it's used as a symbol of peace could be because it was taken from an ancient Sith warrior when he was defeated but it's so long ago people have forgotten the specifics.

Sith lightning in general couldn't do that to him so even in the established storyline Palpatine himself has something 'odd' about him to end up with that look.

To clarify: I'm not saying that such an explination is equivocal to the midichlorians.  It's nowhere near that level....i'm simply citing it as an example of why less is usually more in the realm of Space Fantasy and of Star Wars.  It's not strictly about providing a scientific explanation and thus demystifying something....but also about overly explaining something and thus removing the mystery of it.

As a better comparison, I would liken it to having the prequels try and explain specifically why the cave on Dagobah has a strong connection to the darkside of the force.  Such a thing is good fodder for the expanded universe....but within the context of the movies removes the mystery and the wonder of it.  Keeping it vague makes it more interesting....

I think we all agree that the best explanation for Palpatine's appearance was the implicit idea of him being corrupted by the darkside over the years since his appearance in the prequels.....but GL tossed that out the window in EPIII and all but made it impossible for anyone to restore that.  Perhaps wisely since, judging by the Mace and Palpatine fight, Mcdiarmid isn't quite as intimidating without the makeup.

Barring the ability to restore that....I don't feel it's necessary to explain specifically why/how Palpatine can hide his true appearance.  I just think it needs to be clarified that he is hiding his true appearance and that the force lightning is incidental.  Currently, I do believe that is the official explination anyway....but it's not well conveyed in the context of the film.

I think that inserting a "device" or a specific explanation for Palpatine's transformation is going too far.  Star Wars walks the fine line of science fantasy best when the mystical elements are handled in a more offhand manner that kind of just asks you to roll with it.  It's why the midichlorians were such a betrayal of the mythology.

I don't think you need to actually explain HOW palpatine's appearance changes......I just think it will work better if its clarified that the scared face is his true visage, and the human face is the deception.  If the sith lighting does anything.....it merely forces the truth to be revealed.  There are many ways to do that, including having him appear scared but in shadow beforehand in some manner.

jonathan7 said:

Sepharih said:

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

One of the big problems with the Pod-race I think though is there is a lack of tension anyway, there was never a point that I didn't think Anakin would win. It's a point the Phantom Editor makes in his commentary of Attock of the Clones. That the Prequels are a bit like a bad horror film, you already know what's going to happen there isn't any suprises. Where as the OT I think often surprised you... (Well at least until RotJ).

 

Well in fairness, that's a weakness inherent in almost any sort of prequel.....but I don't know if this would really help matters or just exacerbate them since you've removed most of Anakin's character development.  Maybe in the end it *would* be a stronger and more appropriate characterization to focus on Ani as the daring and bold Pilot, rather than the altruistic youth.  It's just a concern I would have.

mrbenja0618 said:

Well, I was more referring to the lightsaber fights... You are very much correct about gun fights in any of the Star Wars movies.

I know.....i'm just saying that criticizing the PT saber fights for lacking tension or being unrealistic feels a bit too much like the pot calling the kettle black to me.  Nothing wrong with preferring the OT fights....but while I think there's silly or oddly placed moments in some of the PT fights......I don't really think the choreography is any less over the top than a great deal of things in the OT.

It's an interesting concept....but I don't know how you would best execute it....and it does have problems.

You could have watto imply that while credits are accepted, they don't quite have enough for a new hyper-drive.  Somehow imply that It's not easy to get access to the queen and/or jedi's funds without drawing attention.....so they instead turn to betting on the podraces and qui-gon while there senses something special about the underdog in the race.....a little human boy with odds a 100 to 1 against him.  Effectively the same plot as before....but trimming around the corners and removing the subplot with anakin and cutting to the chase.

It'd take a lot of tricky editing.....but you might be able to pull it off.

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

Done correctly it could be a good introduction to the character.....but i'm just not sure that the material for it is there.

I think you'll still need some kind of moment between him and the other characters beforehand, and the podrace should be edited to focus less on the tension and danger anakin is in and more on demonstrating how daring and even crazy he is.

I Always like the idea of making Naboo Alderaan personally.  I don't know if anybody will ever find a way to make it work....but it's something I always hope someone will have an epiphany about how to accomplish someday.

mrbenja0618 said:

You know, that's like arguing that a real gun fight is just like a paint ball war. You act differently when you know your life is danger, but with paint ball you know you're not going to die from anything so you do things that would be foolish and risky in a real gun fight.

PT looks like paint ball.

Honestly.....let's not kid ourselves here.....most of the firefights in the OT look like paintball.  Just sayin.....