RicOlie_2

S*2d

January 20:

A.D. 1892: The first basketball game is played.

A.D. 2009: Barack Obama is inaugurated as President of the U.S.A.

Sx3c

I don't think I can hold out much longer.

K-1c

Neither did I. I suspect the year is an estimate though, it just depends what you base it off of.

darth_ender said:

It makes it fun, IMO.  It just goes to show how much complexity can be put into shogi based games.  Soon I will teach you a variant I designed that is very unique in nature, if you're still interested by that point.  It has some unique geometry and would be a terrible game for a chess variant, but it works out rather well for shogi, I believe.

Sure, I wouldn't mind trying it when we get that far.

Anyway, S*3d.  

K-2b

The more this game progresses, the more I value the knight above what I value them in regular shogi.  Though they only have access to two squares each move, their unique move is impossible to block and has a far and unique reach, making them a threat in such close quarters to all pieces, even rooks and bishops.

Yes, and you have (one of) mine pinned right now. :(

I know, I'm rambling a lot.  There is a fantastic program called shogivar that was programmed back in the late 90s.  Sadly, it doesn't work on 64 bit operating systems like I'm running (Windows 7).  However, I discovered another amazing bit of software called VirtualBox that allows me to emulate other operating systems.  It's truly amazing.  Right now I'm running XP within Windows 7, and I've just installed a few shogi programs including shogivar that no longer work.  Very cool stuff!  It makes me happy to see these old bits of software working again.  What operating system are you using?

 I am also running Windows 7 right now. I may already have VirtualBox installed on my laptop since my Dad uses it to play his old computer games (the laptop was originally his). It's a neat program, that's for sure.

January 18:

A.D. 1778: Captain James Cook discovers the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii).

A.D. 1788: The penal colony at Botany Bay, Australia, is begun.

A.D. 1861: The American Civil War begins.

January 19:

A.D. 379: Theodosius becomes the co-emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire.

A.D. 1785: The first manned hot air balloon flight takes place in Ireland.

A.D. 1840: Discovery of Antarctica.

Bingowings said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Science is not a doctrine, and I am glad you recognize that, because some think it is. What I mean by "satisfactory" is that science has provided an explanation for the universe's origins, but the origins aren't truly explained. Belief in a creator furthers the explanation greatly. I don't mean it is necessary, but I am giving reasons why people, not necessarily myself, hold religious beliefs.

Belief in a creator might further an explanation of the universe greatly but belief in the Biblical creator furthering our current explanation of the universe???

I fail to see how talking snakes and sinful scrumping have anything to do with the already shaky branches of string theory, for example. I also fail to see how the whore of Babylon and the fiery pit have any bearing on the entropic heat death hypothesis.

Indeed I fail to see how it explains anything other than the mindset of a bronze age people hoping to maintain some sense of order out of the chaos of living a desert beset by the dangers of nature and rival communities.

Applying that God to that situation makes perfect sense.

 A) I did not specify the Judeo-Christian God.

B) Why would I have to read the Bible for an explanation? Since the Biblical creation story is allegorical/symbolical, that would seem kind of silly.

So Bronze age people and talking dragons don't have any bearing on the matter.

What I mean is that a primary mover of some kind seems necessary to initiate things like the Big Bang. Specifically a mover who is by his/her/its very nature omniscient, omnipotent, and existing not as a thing but rather just "being" if that makes any sense (I find it a difficult concept to explain).

darth_ender said:

B-4d

I find it interesting how long even such a small game can last in shogi-land.

 Yes, I'm glad this game has lasted this long so far.

S*3b

Sorry, I thought this had posted, but I sat down to watch Inception, and realized it hadn't after the movie. :(

Leonardo said:

And now, let's hear the other side of the argument.

RicOlie_2 said:

1. Hope: religion often provides hope in an afterlife.

There is no evidence of any existence beyond the one we're currently experimenting. If you're gonna be good, do it for the sake of it, not for some sort of reward you're going to get at the pearly gates.

Quoting Queen.... Who wants to life forever????

If one lives with the opportunity to explore something infinite, then it might not be so bad.

2. Happiness: religion and prayer have been shown to increase happiness in multiple studies.

So have done many, many opium derivatives.

Fair enough, but prayer could be considered somewhat healthier than drugs. The healthiness of religion, on the other hand, is debatable.

3. Explanation of the supernatural.

Again, no evidence whatsoever of any "supernatural".

Miracles are almost dime a dozen and the existence of God would explain them. Some of them are explained by science, some proven to be hoaxes, others have no explanation.

4. Unification: this is debatable, but in theory, if everyone followed one religion there would be a lot fewer problems in the world, depending on the religion.

And everything would be really gray and boring, which is why I'm fine with people having different ideas, opinions, and that includes religion, too. People are always going to find something to disagree on.

Life would certainly be boring if everyone agreed with each other. Sharing the same religion would not necessitate that though. I do agree with you for the most part, however.

5. Community: by sharing beliefs and meeting every so often, communities of people are formed and people have a chance to meet with people who share their beliefs.

In theory. In practice churches are a nest for gossips in fur coats.

Depends on the church of course. Such is not the case in my Church. There are many parishioners who go there on Sunday for an hour and have nothing to do with it otherwise, but those who are active in the parish are generally good friends with each other and it's a good opportunity for people of all ages and varying interests to come together.

6. It explains the origins of the universe (science does this, but it doesn't give a very satisfactory answer).

Religion will always say one thing. [Insert message here]

Science can't be and doesn't want to be definitive. Our understanding of gravity, for example, has chanced during the centuries. Because science is not a doctrine.

I don't get the "satisfactory" part.

Science is not a doctrine, and I am glad you recognize that, because some think it is. What I mean by "satisfactory" is that science has provided an explanation for the universe's origins, but the origins aren't truly explained. Belief in a creator furthers the explanation greatly. I don't mean it is necessary, but I am giving reasons why people, not necessarily myself, hold religious beliefs.

7. Religion gives life meaning and purpose in a way that cannot be without religion.

Not everything is supposed to have a meaning, I'm afraid. We, as humans, have this ingrained reaction to all the things we do not understand, and that is trying to give them an explanation, a meaning.

Meanings are meaningless. It's all in the gooey gray and white matter inside our boney skulls.

 That is an opinion, and a valid one. This goes hand in hand with comfort. It is comforting to know that there is some purpose to your life, and religion is one way to achieve that comfort. Meaning is certainly not something I, personally, need, though my life would change drastically if I were not religious. I would spend nearly all my time learning, because I enjoy it, even if there was no point to my knowledge.

G-2a

Leonardo said:

mrbenja0618 said:

[Dissertation about the Grand Canyon]

Yeah, but you really can't compare a finite hole in the ground (no matter how big) to an infinite Deity, can you? Even if you never ever ever leave the house, you're still going to somehow have the experience of a hole in the ground.

However, I still think it's impossible to disprove God's existence.

You don't know everything either. I could even ask if you know half of everything, and you would probably tell me no. You couldn't know half of everything, just like I couldn't. But let's just say for the sake of discussion that you do know half of everything. But, alas, you still do not know everything, so I ask you. Is it possible that this Jesus/God/Heaven thing could exist on the other half of the stuff you haven't learned yet?

I'll tell you, I don't know a quarter of everything. But to use a poker analogy, if I may, by looking at the cards I have in my hand, I can tell you, I'm pretty sure the rest of the deck is cards. There's not gonna be a blue whale in it.

Yes, but in that case, you already have experience with decks of cards and know that the rest of the deck will also consist of cards. If you are given two chests of unknown objects, and look in one, but only get a glimpse of the contents of the other, you won't be able to say whether or not the second chest contained certain objects or not. Some people, however, may have opened both chests (or just the second one) and told you the contents (and others may have repeated it based on the testimony of those who actually saw the contents). You could believe it, or you could disbelieve it, not having seen it for yourself.

Still an imperfect analogy, but somewhat more accurate.

Sorry I couldn't either. I had a basketball tournament today.

Sx5a

LOL

Thanks SilverWook.

mrbenja0618 said:

mrbenja0618 said:

....

 And after writing that long post I realized I referenced the wrong person. Sorry Ric. This is actually for you Leonardo. Sorry guys. Got my wires crossed. :/

 No problem, I was just going to point that out. :)

TheBoost said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Neglify said:

Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.

 Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else. 

 You mean as opposed to the 5,000,000 other Christian sects who all interpret it the same? 

 There are numerous interpretations of the Bible, all similar in most respects, but with variations. Some variations are kind of weird, and some people take the entire Bible literally. I don't believe the Genesis creation story is literal, and do not think there is any reason for taking it that way, but many do and reject the theory of evolution because of it.

He's planning something dramatically anticlimactic to disappoint us all. Either that, or he has something big coming, like his completed "Ridiculousness of the Sith". :)

Also LOL.

You sneaky Frinky. :P

I'm glad to hear it. :)

Ryan McAvoy said:

In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...

What is the point of Religion?

I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?

 Alright, let's assume there is no evidence either for or against religion (I think this is slightly unfair because I believe that there is evidence for my beliefs, but there is so much room for debate in that area that I will ignore that for now). So, what could possibly be good about it? I'll list some reasons in point form (the numbers have nothing to do with importance):

1. Hope: religion often provides hope in an afterlife.

2. Happiness: religion and prayer have been shown to increase happiness in multiple studies.

3. Explanation of the supernatural. This is a reason people adhere to religion, though it may not really belong in this answer.

4. Unification: this is debatable, but in theory, if everyone followed one religion there would be a lot fewer problems in the world, depending on the religion.

5. Community: by sharing beliefs and meeting every so often, communities of people are formed and people have a chance to meet with people who share their beliefs.

6. It explains the origins of the universe (science does this, but it doesn't give a very satisfactory answer).

EDIT: I forgot a big one:

7. Religion gives life meaning and purpose in a way that cannot be without religion.

I could continue were I allowed to take things as they are and not ignoring evidence for and against religion.

Neglify said:

Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.

 Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else. They believe that only 144,000 people can get to heaven or something like that. Makes you wonder why they even bother.

I suggest you don't make too quick a judgement on the Bible. Like any book, it needs to be taken in context. There are many different books in the Bible with many different genres, including histories, proverbs, hymns, allegories, prophetical works, apocalyptic works, letters, love poems, etc. so don't take everything literally, because not everything in it should be read as literal.

TheBoost said:

RicOlie_2 said:

TheBoost said:

EyeShotFirst said:

 

In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.

 That would be a terrible and insane society.

You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women. 

 As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.

 So it would be an ideal society if all Christians followed your particular interpretation of the Bible? And they ignored the ones that you ignore. 

Cool.

 The interpretation I just gave is held by most Christians, as far as I am aware. The goal towards which all Christians should strive is love of everyone. I'm sure most Christians would agree with me (except those who don't practice their religion--there are agnostics who call themselves Christians).

DuracellEnergizer said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...

What is the point of Religion?

I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?

When travelling in a car, I'd rather there by someone behind the wheel to steer the damn thing than for the front seat to be empty and the car to be headed on a course straight off the edge of a cliff.

Of course, this analogy applies to theism more than religion specifically.  

 Of course the problem with that is that atheists or other agnostics might say that a better analogy would be the choice between driving the car, knowing where you are going, and letting someone else drive it, not knowing where they are taking you.

TheBoost said:

EyeShotFirst said:

Bingowings said:

As Christians, Christians should A) apply the laws to themselves and not worry about what other people are doing more than what they do and B) do not judge others because you aren't equipped for the task or risk the outcome of Matthew  7:1-3.

You are 100% correct.

In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.

 That would be a terrible and insane society.

You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women. 

 As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.

That's a good question, Ryan, and one that I will do my best to answer this evening.

Saying that it has no proof is a gross misrepresentation though. There doesn't seem to be much evidence against it though. If you can give the supposed evidence against it before the end of the day, I will try to give counter-evidence/arguments.