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R2-G2

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28-Jan-2004
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11-Mar-2004
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Post
#34053
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Time
George Lucas should have just changed the subtitles in the scene back to what it was in the original script:

In the released version, Greedo says "I've been looking forward to this for a long time."

In the original script, he says "I've been looking forward to KILLING you for a long time."

I don't know what more reason Han could have had for shooting Greedo.

If Lucas simply replaced the line, he would provide total justification for Han shooting, without having ILM spends weeks working on the shot that STILL looks awful.
Post
#33558
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply, trentobi.

Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
Quote

You're right. Just because I think your ideas suck is no reason to be rude. I apologize.

Let's talk about character motivations. Give me yours. I like what Lucas has done, so we can skip that.

Since you've already decided to not like my ideas, I don't see the point in discussing them just to let you savage them. You said it sucks, but do not offer reasons why. If you are biased towards Lucas fine, if you think his way was the best way, then there is no point in discussing an alternative idea.
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Following is what I hope is a bit more articulate breakdown of the circumstances surrounding the training of the Skywalkers.

Anakin- traditionally, he was too old for the Jedi Council to train him... but he was trained anyway because the Council knew that Qui-Gon (and later Obi-Wan) believed that Anakin was the Chosen One and would train him, Anakin, with or without the Council's approval. So by giving their approval, they were also steering the ship, the logic being that Anakin's training couldn't possibly go wrong with experts like Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan guiding him. (As a side note, I think the Council might've been okay if they'd simply rejected Anakin from the start and stuck to it, even though that obviously pissed him off. They might also have been okay if they'd simply agreed to train him right from the start. But rejecting him and then changing their minds later resulted in pissing off the one guy who would later be capable of taking them all down.)

Luke- traditionally, he was also too old for the Jedi Council to train him... problem being that there was no more Jedi Council, no Republic and no more Jedi except for Obi-Wan and (later just) Yoda, it felt wise to train Luke so he would topple Palpatine and Vader (who had taken over the entire damn government) and restore freedom to the galaxy and re-establish the Jedi Order.

Different circumstances led to those two being trained... both of whom were trained under non-traditional terms.

All of this is just another "fan theory". No matter how logical it may be, none of what you speak of is actually born out of the dialogue that appears in the movie. You are offering a logical theory on how to explain it, but unless the movie addressed this issue itself in scenes and dialogue, it remains just that, another "theory". If you can cite the passages in the script that support your supposition, it would have more credence.

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oh, I'm still waiting for those groaner lines from ANH and ESB.
- R2-G2

I've watched most of ANH, focusing on dialog. The quotes will be ready... eventually. - Trentobi
Still waiting for all the lines that make people cringe in ANH and ESB. Surely they would be easy enough to come up with, I mean, there are so many, right?
Post
#33471
Topic
Has anyone tried to re edit the SE yet? like the "phantom edit" but with the original trilogy?
Time
the best materials to work with would be LD, since the OE won't be on DVD.

I suppose someone could take a crack at it, but matching the video would be difficult. I might take a crack at it, but I want to wait to see what additional changes Lucas will make to the SE on the DVD release.

What I would really like to do is see if one could mix back in the music that was deleted in the Empire Strikes Back.
Post
#33433
Topic
music in the ORIGINAL star wars movies
Time
ai-yai-yai-yai-yai...
ai-yai-yai-yai-yai...
ai-yai-yai-yai-yai...
ai-yai-yai-yai-yai...

I can't believe that Williams couldn't even get it to fit with the end title, but then again, he can't even make the finale fit with the end titles of TPM and AOTC, talk about awkward.

in case some of you don't know the words to "Yub Yub"...

Celebrate the light... FREEDOM!
Celebrate the might... POWER!
Celebrate the fight... GLORY!

celebrate the love...
Celebrate The Love...
Celebrate The Love...
CELEBRATE THE LOVE!!!


Post
#33411
Topic
It's official! the 2004 OT DVD release will be the Special Editions :(
Time
I don't mean to be rude, but if you came up to me at a store and told me not to buy something, I'd probably tell you to go stick it somewhere. Coming at people like that is confrontational and it is a normal instinctive human response to treat such an approach as hostile and will most likely get you kicked out of the store, because if I was a manager, you would be interfering with my business. Doing something like you are proposing will get you hauled off by the cops.

I feel the better solution is INSTEAD of telling people what NOT to do, take a petition and approach people who have bought the DVD and ask them to sign a petition asking for the release of the original editions of the Star Wars trilogy. You can educate them about the fact that Lucas is only putting the Special Editions out on the box set. A fact that I'm sure some customers will be very surprised about and will probably get you a good number of signatures on that issue alone.

Yes, I know there is an online petition, but I work in the entertainment field and online petitions mean very little to companies. It's hard pieces of paper that REALLY stand out. I realize that the efforts of OT.COM and others on behalf of releasing the OT on DVD are noble, sincere and valiant. But having a big stack of papers plopped on your desk is much more dramatic than someone saying "hey, there are 50,000 signatures on the online petition"

In this day and age, people take the easiest and convenient way out, and that is by doing it online.

Just speaking from my experience in the entertainment industry, hard copy letters carry much more weight than emails.

If you want to bring petitions with you to for people to sign, I am all for it and I may even want to participate. You will probably be well received by customers and you may even get support of the management, because when you convince them that they will sell even more Star Wars if the original editions are released, they will be more than happy to support you; or at least not bother you as you collect signatures. If you want to accost people (yes accost) and tell them not to buy merchandise, I strongly advise against that. It would only get you into trouble and make us OT fans look bad.

Please consider the petition drive idea rather than a picket line.



Post
#33398
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Time
I was watching "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga" and "Classic Creatures - Return of the Jedi"and there was a rather extensive segment about Jabba the Hutt and what went into designing him. Phil Tippett showed a series of different maquettes that showed the evolution of the Jabba design and he relayed Lucas' comments as the design process went along (i.e. "too human", "too alien")

It's obvious that Lucas was not happy with the Jabba scene as it played out in 1977. Jabba just didn't come off right and the scene was redundant. Lucas took the opportunity in ROTJ to push the Star Wars universe by making Jabba a big alien looking slug, and that was definitely more appropriate.

There was absolutely nothing in the Lucas interviews or anyone else's comments that the Jabba in the first film was supposed to be a slug. Not even Lucas' comments in the documentaries touch on that.
Post
#33179
Topic
How Many Versions?
Time
The original print of the first STAR WARS film DOES NOT have "Episode IV - A NEW HOPE" on the title crawl.

"EPISODE IV - A NEW HOPE" first appeared on the rerelease print of STAR WARS that came out AFTER the release of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

Other than that, the films have remained the same, no scenes were added or deleted until the 1997 Special Editions.

There are unsubstantiated rumors of people that saw the Biggs Tatooine scenes in the original film print, but they may have just saw a workprint. No hard evidence to corroborate that.

Post
#32995
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Time
Curious how this first reviewer doesn't mention the changes that Lucas made that alter the story, such as Greedo shooting first and Jabba-slug replacing Jabba-fat guy. We could care less about fixing some of the effects shots, that's not the problem. The problem is when these changes alter the narrative.

As long as Lucas is taking my money, he's entitled to my opinion. I and millions of other fans across the world have made him what he is today. He's a successful filmmaker because of us, and he's a billionaire because of us. I know he doesn't give a damn about my desire for the original cuts of the film to be on DVD, but since I am buying the "Special Editions" on DVD, I can criticize decisions that he makes that I do not agree with.

I knew the petition wasn't going to do any good because I believe Lucas' mind was made up a long time ago. No amount of begging or pleading was going to change that.

As a paying customer, I have a right to complain if the service is substandard. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Post
#32813
Topic
It's official! the 2004 OT DVD release will be the Special Editions :(
Time
Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
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If you mean "the original versions don't exist anymore as far as Lucasfilm is concerned", you're probably right.


If you mean "the original versions no longer exist in the physical realm we call 'Earth'", you're wrong, I repeat YOU ARE WRONG.

- Trentobi
That is why I prefaced it by saying "As far as Lucasfilm is concerned..."

Post
#32807
Topic
It's official! the 2004 OT DVD release will be the Special Editions :(
Time
Note how these DVDs are NOT referred to as "Special Editions"

As far as Lucasfilm is concerned, these ARE STAR WARS, not "Special Edition" versions of the films. They are THE films, there ARE NO OTHER versions. Original editions DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT exist anymore.


"Oceania is at war with Eastasia, Oceania has ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia"
Post
#32778
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
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If you can't see the difference between Anakin being trained as a Jedi during the hey-day of the Republic to be just-another-Jedi and Luke being trained during the galaxy's darkest hour for the sole purpose of fighting Vader and the Emperor, you're a complete idiot and this conversation is over.
There is no need to get uncivil here. Just because I've made you a little angry by making you defend your beloved prequels.

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All I can do is thank God you're not writing the new Star Wars scripts. Your idea was a fanboy cliché showing absolutely no imagination and zero character motivation.
You asked what how I would have written it and I told you in basic terms, we were only talking about the test of Anakin's Jedi ability. Where were Anakin's character motivations and where is the imagination in a blood test or a souped-up version of the Zener ESP card test? I haven't written a movie script based on the idea, its just an idea and one that I feel is superior to what was in the film, but hey, its just my opinion. I could go into it more and talk about the character motivations, but obviously, you do not want to have that discussion. I know you don't like me, but dismiss the idea on its merit and not because you have a personal distaste for me because I am disagreeing with you I wish you would put as much thought into analyzing the quality of the prequel films as you do into savaging my idea on the sole basis of trying to insult me.

oh, I'm still waiting for those groaner lines from ANH and ESB.
Post
#32756
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
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Pre-production on TPM began in 1994, so Lucas obviously spent quite a lot of time with it.
Excessive time investment into the script doesn't appear to be something that George Lucas could be accused of. A court would throw that out for "lack of evidence"
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There's two ways you can look at this. 1- Under ideal circumstances back in the hey-day of the Jedi during the Republic era, the Jedi trained new Jedi basically from infancy and they wouldn't rarely change their practices. However, once all but two of them have been killed by the bad guys, they're willing to overlook their standard training policies and have Yoda give Luke a crash course in Jedi-ology in the space of about two months since the fate of the entire galaxy is at stake, even though (under ideal circumstances) Luke would never have been trained as a Jedi. The Council calling Anakin "too old" when he was 10 years old kind of underscores the seriousness of the situation when Luke is trained at almost 22 years of age. 2- Lucas is a hack.

The best evidence leads me to put my faith in #1.
I select answer #2, case closed. Lucas likes kids and as such feels the need to dumb things down.
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No offense, but there's absolutely nothing creative about any of that. Lucas's method worked, for me anyway,
Big surprise, you didn't like it. Considering your low standards and lack of taste, its not really a surprise. If Lucas's method works better for you, there's nothing I can do about that. If my idea was not creative, then what is Lucas'?
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because Anakin was fairly brimming with power, but he was also a good person who wanted to do good things and had the type of innocence only childhood can bring.
How was Anakin "brimming with power", sure he was a good kid, but there was no sense of foreboding anger or potential evil that came across in his performance or in the script. Just because Qui-Gon says he has a high midichlorian count or Yoda says there is much anger in him, doesn't demonstrate ANYTHING! There is no evidence to support Yoda's statement. "show, don't tell"

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The Force was with Anakin. He knew enough about piloting to do well enough when R2 deactivated the auto-pilot. Anakin's expertise was piloting, mechanics and such things. The Force used Anakin. In ANH, Luke used the Force. The situations were pretty different.
Again, the film produces no evidence to back up your assertion. What you have proposed is just another fan theory. If this was the case, why did no one mention it in the film "Hey, Anakin must've used the Force, it must be!"?

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Luke received actual instruction from Obi-Wan, which is more than Anakin had to work with. Plus, Luke was just older, thus he might've been more inclined to pick things up quicker.
Again, all Anakin did was make a few preposterously lucky shots. Was the Force at work there? Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. The scenes in the film do not produce any reference to back up your opinions.

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"I was going to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!!"
"Mos Eisley spaceport: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." (who the hell talks like that?!)

I'll get back to you with more on this after I watch the trilogy again.

- Trentobi

Those were the two groaners from ANH? That's the best you could come up with?

Luke's statement was perfectly within character and consistent with his other statements in the film regarding his friends leaving and his desire to go to the Academy. I fail to see anything wrong with that line.

Obi-Wan was describing Mos Eisley, and it turns out his comment was appropriate. Again, where is the problem with the line?

Post
#32678
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
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He said he had the films outlined. Major events, major characters, etc. I can believe that. I seriously doubt that he ever intended to even film the prequel trilogy, until around 1980 or so wherein he changed his mind. He claims to have been waiting for technology to catch up to his vision, but I personally think he was procrastinating.
He could have made the films in the late 80's or early 90's, but I think he was so burned out he wanted to do anything but Star Wars. Saying FX tech wasn't up to snuff is just an excuse, but its a valid one to justify his long wait if he wants. He just wasn't ready to take the plunge back then. The wait was fine with me, unfortunately, I hated walking out of The Phantom Menace going "I waited sixteen years for this???". I can't for the life of me believe that Lucas really had Jar Jar in mind way back when he first typed "A Long Time Ago..."
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Lucas knew from the start that Vader was Luke's father. Darth Vader = "dark" and "father" in some other language. He knew Luke had a twin, but wasn't sure if it was Han or Leia. This is kinda backed up by ESB in a way. I'm speculating that he wanted Luke's twin to be Han since... Luke and Leia kissed in ESB.
Making Leia "the other" and Luke's sister was probably the right decision. I just couldn't see Han filling in that role.
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I don't buy Lucas' statements about Greedo either, for the record. I read somewhere that he attributed Han shooting first in the original ANH as an "editing error"... which I don't believe for one second. It was completely in character for Han to shoot Greedo first in that bar. To say (or do) anything else is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
At last, we totally agree. That's good... you've taken your first step into a larger world...
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Are you being this dense on purpose? For the purposes of a story, only Anakin can pilot podracers. If I can accept the other conventions of Star Wars, this is no problem.
So Anakin is good at racing podracers, and if I recall correctly, it was said that no human had won the pod race. Not that it was completely genetically impossible for a human to win. Also, there's nothing that Anakin DID that really stood out as particularly indicative of his "greatness"; he never used the Force or did anything that was noteworthy in regard to Jedi potential.
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Luke was trained as a Jedi during less-than-ideal circumstances. Yoda and Obi-Wan were both prepared to overlook his age in exchange for him bringing Vader and Palpatine down. It was an emergency situation.
Which totally blows the whole "he's too old" argument completely out of the water. Jeez, Anakin is like a 4th or 5th grader, hardly a sage old timer. I still find the notion that the only acceptable Jedi candidates are babies to be completely preposterous. If that's the case, the Sith should find ample recruits... "Hey, can't be a Jedi? say you're TOO OLD? Well come on over to the Sith, we'll show you what the Force is all about!"
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How would you have written Anakin's testing scene? Mind you, Anakin can't really jump around yet, move objects, lightsaber duel, etc. He'd already had the midichlorian test and won a race he wasn't even supposed to be biologically capable of competing in. And anyway, to humor Qui-Gon, the Council decided to test Anakin. Anakin didn't prove himself until later in the film... and only when Obi-Wan threatened to train him outside of the Council, if necessary. So knowing all that, the Council probably agreed to let Obi-Wan train Anakin to keep Anakin under some kind of control.
Well, since you asked, I would never have written Anakin as a 9-10 year old. He would have at least been a teenager, around Luke's age, but probably just a little younger. I would have had Obi-Wan discover his Jedi potential inadvertently, such as witnessing Anakin doing stuff naturally that took Obi-Wan and other Jedi years of study and practice to learn. A little scene like when Luke first practiced against the remote in ANH, only Anakin would fare much better, making it all look easy. The Jedi would look at him with a sense of awe and fear. So powerful, but untrained, volatile, a wildcard, Obi-Wan convinces the others that they should take him and make him a Jedi, or risk him falling into the hands of the Dark Side.

Oh, and Anakin didn't "prove" himself in ANY way at the end of TPM. Everything he did at the end was by accident. He took off, accidentally, he got into the fight, accidentally, he got shot, accidentally, he went into the ship and just happened to get into sensitive area, accidentally, then he fires at the battledroids, but ends up hitting the reactors (I guess)... again, accidentally

There wasn't a single thing Anakin did ON PURPOSE during that part of the film. It was all by accident. Please, compare the scene there with Luke's trench run. Everything Luke did was deliberate and with purpose ("Luke, you switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?" - "Nothing. I'm alright!") not... "Let's try rolling, that's a good trick!"
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Star Wars has crappy dialog. Always has, always will. TPM and AOTC were more of the same.
TPM, AOTC and some of ROTJ yes, but ANH and ESB have great scripts, the lines work and are delivered with conviction and believability within the context of their characters. I defy you to name groaners from those two films.
Post
#32670
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Originally posted by: HotRod
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All this "look at Owens face" and "Look at Lukes reaction to whatever" is all bullshit man.
Why does everybody try and make the OT with the PT.
We all know it should be the other way around.

Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up (OT) as he went along!!

I dunno man. Star Wars is changing before my eyes, and I'm talking about the greatest trilogy ever. It's all changing, the story, the effects. Everything.
All these new reasons why the charactes we've watched for years, well some of us anyway, all these characters now seem to have other reasons for the way they acted.

And whoever said up there the thing about 3PO being a diplomat for Padme, or whatever it was, is right.
IMO I think we should have seen R2 and 3PO walking along a corridor for the fisrt time. Just like the first time we saw them in ANH. Doing there thing. This Anakin making 3PO is bollocks. The Galaxy all of a sudden got a lot smaller!!

It's starting to get to me!!!

Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up as he went along!!

There!!!

Got that off my chest!!!


Word to that HotRod. If Lucas had the events of episodes 1 and 2 clearly in his mind since 1976, then I've got a real life size Death Star to sell you. Yes, Lucas is a constant promoter of revisionist history, talking about the PT as if that is what he had in mind all along, which is ridiculous. Trentobi, before you jump to GL's defense, I don't need to read Lucas' mind, I just look at what he has said. His assertion about Greedo shooting first and his desire to make Jabba a big fat lizard instead of a big fat old man in ANH as things that he had planned to do all along are not corroborated by anything other than Lucas' self-serving statements.

I don't even think Lucas had it in his mind that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father until he started to write the story of Empire Strikes Back. I doubt he even made up his mind about Leia being Luke's sister. Though to hear Lucas tell it now, Star Wars is always about a guy and his twins.

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Trentobi writes: "Anakin piloted his pod in a winning race... which humans cannot do, strictly speaking. That was stated in plain English during the film. He was tested by the Jedi Council and demonstrated a sufficient enough skill in the Force (describing the objects in Mace Windu's holopad) that the Jedi Council all agreed that he had "exceptional skill"... even if he was too old to begin training as a Jedi. Since he was just a kid in TPM, we got to see him be an innocent, selfless kid... which makes him growing up into Darth Vader all the more heart-wrenching since he was such a good kid once. If Anakin had come out of the womb as a bloodthirsty maniac, why the hell would the Jedi have accepted him?!?! And moreover, why would the audience care about it? They'd say "that sicko was a demon right from the start!" He basically gave in to the Dark Side when he was first born, it kinda takes the sting out of the whole transformation.
So Anakin can drive a pod-racer around really fast, on the same rationale, just because Jeff Gordon can win the Daytona 500 doesn't mean he'd make a great Delta Force commando. As for his "tests", oh wow, him reading the cards ("I don't know... a couple of wavy lines?"); could Lucas have come up with something more imaginative than that for a test? And why did they even bother if they already knew he was "too old", which is preposterous. If boy-child Anakin is "too old", then what is Luke? George just wanted to have lots of cute kids. The Jedi younglings in Episode 2 are another attempt to completely remove any gonads out of Star Wars, how saccharine.

So, do Jedi kidnap kids to train into Jedis, and Jedis are not allowed to marry. That life must suck.

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As for that "Yippee" stuff... kids say dumb stuff all the time. It's soooo wizard!!"
Stop being an apologist. Poor Jake Lloyd, he deserved better than that. I feel equally sorry for Daniel Logan ("Get him dad!!!" Get him!!! FIRE!!!")
Post
#32534
Topic
role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi:
Go on then Shakespeare, how was Anakin poorly conceived?
Because we see him as a young child, and nothing but a young child, and a brat at that. There is no sense in his characterization that he's the one "who will bring balance to the Force" except for a high midichlorian count. None of his ACTIONS in the film demonstrate ANYTHING that can be construed as "greatness" or even hinting that Anakin has the makings of a great Jedi. We are to assume that Anakin will be a great Jedi, because... well, Qui-gon thinks so. Simply not believeable. Oh, and "Yipee!!!!"

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Anakin built C-3PO??? How utterly ridiculous. I guess Shmi just took him with her whenever Watto sold her?

Why not? It was Shmi's legal property.
Since when do "slaves" have property?

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Isn't C-3PO a protocol droid, well versed in all the customs, fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of communication? Wouldn't it have made more sense storywise for Threepio to be in the diplomatic service, either on Naboo, with the Jedi, or even with the Senate?

No. Anakin found the frame of the droid, he didn't build that.
It still doesn't change that the character provides absolutely no function in the story at all (either Episode I or II). There has not been a single thing that C-3PO has done in the story that is of any merit or substance. At least in Jedi, he was essential for talking with the Ewoks.

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Of course, Owen doesn't recognize him in ANH. Oh yeah, different color scheme, yeah, that's right... sure.

Would you recognize a car that a friend of yours drove if you saw it 20 years later in a junkyard with a different coat of paint on it?
I would if his name was C-3PO, oh yeah... right, Owen didn't get the name when he bought C-3PO in ANH and didn't recognize him in the gold paint. Despite the fact that he had the same voice. Ah... clever.

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C-3PO's lines in the OT are still all pretty funny and come from the character and make sense (especially in ANH and TESB, ROTJ has a few groaners, but I'll forgive them) However, the whole putting his head on the battledroid was such a pathetic farce: "This is such a drag"??? (I'll bet GL laughed his head off when they came across that part in the first cast script reading, though I am sure the rest of the cast and crew just started inspecting the creases in their pants.)

Yeah cuz you were there, right? How do you even know that Lucas (and not Hales) wrote that part?
When it comes to stupid lines in the prequel Star Wars films, there is one continous person involved, and that is George Lucas. His name is on the script. If he didn't write it, he's responsible for keeping it in, because, its OH, SO FUNNY!!!
Post
#32476
Topic
Classic SW DVD Release Info- from tf.n
Time
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Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
All the quote from Williams implies is that more music will be added into ANH. Williams, as a musical director, is not an authority on what is being done in the areas of visual effects, sound design, etc. For all either of us know, Lucas simply wants to add the Imperial March to ANH and maybe some other things as well, but has nothing else in mind for that film.
That is still a change, and a fundamental one at that. Do you really think Lucas would stop just there?

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I understand your feelings. I support releasing the original versions of the Trilogy on DVD as much as anybody on this forum. My point though is that, sooner or later, a new format will eventually put DVD out of business. Is Lucas supposed to release the original versions of the Trilogy on that format as well?
yes.
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And the next one?
Yes.
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And the next one?
YES!
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And the next one?
YES!!!
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It's not an either/or proposition and it shouldn't be. Lucas could release the original versions of the Trilogy on barebones DVD (without any extras at all) in four months and they would sell a mint and earn him two or three more fortunes. If he's as greedy as some of you say, he would've done so by now.
This is the case where Lucas' ego and pride outweighs his greed.
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The fact that he hasn't released those or the Special Editions tells me that he has his own reasons for sitting on both of them. Hell, if he wanted to, he could release a MEGA boxed set with one DVD containing the original film and the second disc containing the Special Edition version with one extra disc for all of the extra material. Nobodys ego would be at stake in that scenario and no one could say which version people really cared about buying. I'd hoped for this route in lieu of a separate release for each version (confusing the idiotic masses), but I'll take what ever I can get at this point.
If Lucas would release the films as you have laid out here, I would rejoice and praise his name as I once did. I don't hate the Special Editions, I just feel the changes make it a worse film in a dramatic sense, while they may be technically superior.

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I've never met Lucas, but I think of him as being a fairly obstinant man. It's all well and good for people like you and me to beg for the original versions of the Trilogy. In my opinion, he doesn't understand why we want them since (1) they're not his original vision and (2) the Special Editions are far superior in every technical way. He may very well not understand the sentimentality of seeing Han shoot first or my geeky need to compare the two versions to each other with friends and debate the merits of both.
I take that to mean he is severely out of touch with fans. Of course, he simply looks at his bank statements and sees that Episode I and II have made him millions and millions. So he finds it easy to dismiss our criticisms. Like when he dismissed criticism of Jar Jar saying that people thought C-3PO and R2-D2 were stupid, which was most certainly not the case amongst the fans.

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Let's hope with these ULTIMATE editions, he will do that.


Agreed, 110%. There's no shortage of work that still needs to be done in all three movies, ranging from head-slapping-obvious (the Rancor matte line, screwy lightsabers) to the more subtle (the mother of all color correction screw ups when Leia, Chewie and Lando run past the camera during their escape from Cloud City).
I'm coming up with a laundry list of things I hope Lucas will fix that he didn't fix in the Special Editions. Hopefully someone at ILM has already noticed these. Of all the corrections that one list claimed were being made, the one I find most laughable is that Han shooting first will be restored. Fat chance, I think Lucas will keep that in there just to spite us. No, it was not his original vision, because there is no mention of it in the scripts, and no mention of it in he novelization. To claim that that's what he intended back in 1977 is just plain false and and outright lie. I would respect Lucas more if he just said "I was uncomfortable with the idea of Han shooting first and that's why I changed it."

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With all that in mind, I really wish 20th Century Fox would've allowed Lucas to just work on ANH and skip the other two films (which was the original plan). He would've done the rest of them eventually and the quality level of ANH Special Edition (and the rest) would've been much higher.

- Trentobi
Agreed.

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#32412
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Classic SW DVD Release Info- from tf.n
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Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobiYou're not being made to do anything. You've got self-control and a free will. If you don't want to support any version of Star Wars on DVD except the original releases, that's your perogative. But you sound like a whiney chump when you complain about "taking this to the extreme", when all Lucas has done is whoppin' ONE revamp to the original trilogy. I defy you or anybody else to find so much as one quote from Lucas admitting point-blank that he's got another overhaul for the trilogy lurking in his mind. Moreover, when the unaltered original trilogy was released for the final time all those years ago, IT WAS ADVERTISED AS BEING THE FINAL TIME FOR THE UNALTERED VERSION! You can't say you didn't see this coming.

- Trentobi

Thanks for the link to the Williams interview. I am disappointed to hear that he will tinker with the music for ANH, but there is proof positive that Lucas is further changing ANH. You asked for evidence that he is doing ANOTHER revamp, well there it is.

Yes, I did realize that it was being released as "unaltered" for the last time, but that was only on VHS and laserdisc and unfortunately, DVD has since replaced both as the format of choice for the consumer. So no, it did not come as a surprise and I dutifily bought my LD copy. But now, for all those who would want the original, unadulterated version of the OT on DVD, they are totally out of luck. I have a copy of my LD burned onto DVD, but its not the same as having an official release using the masters of the original film and sound mixing to make a truly professional release. LD output is only analog, not digital, the LDs also just had Dolby Digital sound, not a remastered 5.1 mix. There is only so much that a guy and his desktop computer can do, when only given an LD to work with as the master.

Is it too much to ask for a simple DVD of the original film without the changes? Spielberg provides that on the E.T. DVD along with his new "FBI Agents don't carry guns" version. Are people wrong for wanting something that would be so easy for the omnipotent Lucas to grant?

If Lucas is worried that I might buy the OT and not the SE, he should fear not. Yes, I will be buying the Special Edition DVDs when they come out, regardless of whether he releases the non-SE OT, but that is for mostly technical reasons (i.e. sound/picture, extras/documentaries). That doesn't mean I have to prefer those versions over the original films.

If Lucas proceeds with doing an "ULTIMATE" edition DVD after this (or if he's planning to make the changes for the Fall 2004 DVD release), then more power to him. It is "his" film whether we like it or not, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy the awkward "Greedo shoots first" scene. It's obvious that any sentiment towards the original cuts of the film don't seem to be registering with him.

If he does make more changes, I hope he goes all out and makes these versions even more different from the original cuts as possible. There are a number of things in the Special Edition that had me scratching my head and saying "Why didn't they fix THAT?"

Let's hope with these ULTIMATE editions, he will do that.