Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda

Moth3r said:

Pulldown is not necessary for video in the MKV container - it can be 24fps (or 23.976fps) natively.

So, capture produces a DV file at one film frame per DV frame (which isn't 24fps).  So... I would edit the movie in DV (at its framerate), do a temporary pulldown like before so I can sync the audio, then do a final encode at 24fps?  How would I get the audio correctly into the mkv encoding?

In other words, although the film is meant to be played back at 24fps, the video is stored at 30fps (too fast) because it is captured as a DV .avi file, and the audio is a separate .wav file.  I need some way to sync them up, and also to tell the encoder to set the frame rate to 24fps.

Asaki said:

I had no problems whatsoever watching it in WMP.

Also, as for the corners, I'd suggest leaving them as-is; I didn't even notice them until I remembered to check.

Maybe it's just the way the film shakes around, but the pulldown looks jerkier than usual to my eyes? Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

Recent versions of WMP can play it.

I will leave the corners... they look cleaner than I was expecting.

The jerky pulldown is something I need to find a way to fix.  For the PG, the video and audio streams were separate, and I did pulldown by setting the pulldown flag and letting the player slow it down (I only did a temporary pulldown so I could ensure that the pulled-down video would match the separately-encoded and correct-speed audio).  Since I knew for this demo I was going to encode them together, I did pulldown in software using cinecap (it adds frames according to standard patterns), before encoding. I agree that the results aren't entirely satisfactory.

Cinecap is capable of adding interpolated frames, which is supposed to make it smoother - but I've never liked doing that because it makes it harder if someone else wants to edit it later.  I still don't know what is the process I will use to ultimately encode PSB.  So I'm open to suggestions in that regard, and with respect to doing the pulldown.

Harmy said:

Looks great. It looks way better then Puggo Grande. I wonder if that is due to a better quality of the print or the scanning process being improved?

The scanning process was identical to PG.  The difference must be because I upscaled PSB rather than squishing it vertically and letting the player stretch it.  After I'm done with PSB - and have fully learned the best way of doing this - I'll go back and do the same for PG.

"Pensativa" - Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers

10-minute .mkv sample posted, pieced together from two captures:

http://rapidshare.com/files/452924259/demo.mkv

It's 1280x480, so you'll need VLC or similar to play it.  I've noticed that if you play it in VLC, and tell it to switch to fullscreen, that it retains the aspect ratio and adds black bars, so that's the best way I know for watching it.

Some minor color correction is all, and the sound isn't perfectly sync-ed yet.
It's a rough, early sample, but you can hopefully see how dirty the film is at the start, but that it gets somewhat better as it goes along.

Awesome, thanks!!

I'm putting together a demo .mkv clip of the first 8 minutes, splicing the various pieces from the best two captures, border added, and resized to 1280.  I tried it last night with xvid4psp as suggested earlier in the thread, and I agree it seems to be a very nice tool for the job.

I'll also keep trying out althor's scripts.  The trouble with it, is that if the brighter clip blows out some of the whites, the script seems to also be blown out.  The "scripted" version may ultimately become another take from which to utilize in certain scenes.

-- whoops, never mind -- was reading the file sizes wrong :P

Oh, althor, could you modify your second script for just two source files?  I think if I'm going to do this, I'm going to just choose the best matching pair of source files.  The alternate files are just for extreme scenes.

Ok, I just finished trying the earlier script (the first, simpler one).  I had to convert to YV12, then back to RGB, and also swapUV (my first attempt came out with a blue crawl!).  It worked better than I thought it would.  I'm not sure yet if I like the results - I have to study them carefully and see if they are doing what I want in the details.

Next I'll try your second set of scripts.

After I get some example clips, I'll post them.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the government take GB off the air. Fox should just fire him... freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to get paid for it, and freedom to have a huge network promulgating it. Firing GB wouldn't curtail his freedom of speech... he would still be free to tweet his nonsense just like 50-cent.  So the two situations aren't comparable.  On the other hand, I'm actually glad that Fox continues to support GB... it illuminates how fair and balanced they are.

Big Boppa said:
I was 19 when I first saw Star Wars in 1977.  I went to a midnight showing.  I had to walk three miles because the headlights on my car blew out.

I know this is a bit off topic, but... true story... in 1977, at age 17, I actually had to walk through a cemetery, at night, to see Star Wars in the theater.  I was staying in a dorm at Utah State for the summer, and in between the dorms and the theater was a big, old, and unlit cemetery. Didn't bother me, but some of the other kids didn't want to make the walk alone.

canofhumdingers said:

Since you asked, I for one would ask that you pay attention to the lightsabers, particularly in the duel shots.  We don't want another bubble-gum pink saber fiasco like in 2004 (not that I expect that would happen here anyway).

Yeah, I'll be sure and keep an eye out for that as I do the color correction.

althor1138 said:

reel1cap2 = avisource("PATH TO FILE") #this is the video that will be altered.
reel1cap1 = avisourse("PATH TO FILE") #this is the video that will be the source that the other is matched to.

colw = reel1cap2.Width()
colh = reel1cap2.Height()
bww = reel1cap1.Width()
bwh = reel1cap1.Height()
borw = (bww-colw)/2
borh = (bwh-colh)/2
reel1cap2= reel1cap2.AddBorders((654-reel1cap2.Width)/2, (480-reel1cap2.Height)/2, (654-reel1cap2.Width)/2, (480-reel1cap2.Height)/2, color=$000000)
bwp = reel1cap1.AddBorders((654-reel1cap1.Width)/2, (480-reel1cap1.Height)/2, (654-reel1cap1.Width)/2, (480-reel1cap1.Height)/2, color=$000000)
int = Interleave(bwp,reel1cap2)
est = int.depanestimate(range=1,pixaspect=1,zoommax=1,improve=false,trust=0)
dep = int.depaninterleave(est,pixaspect=1,prev=0,next=1,subpixel=2,mirror=0,blur=0)
acol = dep.SelectEvery(4, 1)
avgcap1cap2=overlay(reel1cap1,acol,mode="blend",opacity=0.5)

return(avgcap1cap2)

 

That is so awesome, thanks a lot!  I will definitely be giving this a try.

twooffour said:

Not sure if I can say I "prefer" Billy Higgins, especially since Buddy did his "quiet, tasty" solos as well.

As far as tasty, catchy, mind-blowing jazz drum solos, I probably prefer the kind of Joe Morello the most.

Higgins wasn't known for his soloing... I was mainly referring to how they each back up a group.  As a drummer, I usually hate listening to drum solos :)  And I don't like the sound of Buddy Rich's cymbals at all.  Compare the sound of Tony Williams' kit on "Seven Steps to Heaven"... that ride cymbal is so musical it's is like a stradivarius.  For loud drumming, Elvin Jones on the "A Love Supreme" album, or Art Blakey on the "Free For All" album, are the pinnacles of raw acoustic energy, in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlhl__z-bY

althor1138 said:

I noticed while reading this thread that you are looking for a better way to auto-align the frames from several of your reel captures.

I know of an avisynth script that should do a better job of auto-alignment than photoshop or vegas.  I've never used the vegas method but from what you are describing it's not that great. 

If you are interested just let me know what resolution your captures are and I can edit the script to fit the resolution and then post it here in this thread for you.

Thanks!  654 x 480

To clarify, I was only using Vegas to composite the frames. Aligning I was trying to do by hand.

Sounds fun to try.  I'm curious how good of a job it can do at aligning frames when the brightness levels are different.

none said:

When you say assembly, what does that mean exactly.  Are you looking through each of those scans for the 'best' quality (frame placement, consistant lighting, x, y, z), or are you averaging the scans as someone had recommended previously?

I actually tried some experiments with averaging the scans in Vegas.  It was pretty cool as it does manage to do a pretty good job of balancing dark and light areas of the frame.  But I couldn't get the frames to line up consistently enough.  If I took my closest two scans and superimposed them, I could make individual frames line up well, but then 3 or 4 frames later one would move a slight amount and it would lose sharpness.  Without a tool, this would take forever.  Is there a tool to help with this?

So, instead, I'm slicing it up scene-by-scene, taking each scene from whichever scan has the most detail based on which scan has the most appropriate aperture setting for that scene.  Later, I'll go through and individually color adjust them so they match as well as I can.

Not doing any cropping yet.  That is way down the road.

Regarding the frame borders, I tried to keep the camera in the same position for every scan.  On reel 1, two of the three scans have virtually identical border positions, with the third scan not matching quite as well.  As a result, I'm trying to use the two matching scans whenever possible, resorting only to the third scan when absolutely necessary.  If I can do that throughout, it will make it much easier later on.  I think that for each of the reels I have two good scans with identical camera placement (and different brightness, of course).

For assembly, I'm erring on the side of detail in dark and light scenes, trying to get less white/black blowout than I sometimes have in the past.

After assembly I assume I'll start in on color correction.  My understanding is that it is best to do that before resizing, right?  That will be slow, too, as I'll need to do it scene-by-scene as well.  My goal with color correction will be to stick as closely to what the print looks like (to me), rather than matching the GOUT or other sources.  As before, I'll err on the side of good skin tones where a decision has to be made.  If there is anything any of you think is of paramount importance to achieve in some particular scene, let me know now so that I can pick the best source from which to work on that scene... I tend to not pay attention to some of the details that people fret about here (like lightsaber colors), and so I wouldn't want to miss something key, unnecessarily.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that the entire ESB movie has surprisingly few green things in it.  There is some in Yoda, a little bit in the Hoth command center, and some in the foliage behind him, but that's about it. Even the cockpit and techie lights are almost all red and blue. It has made it difficult to get good starting white balance.  But that's nitpicking because the print and the capture looks great.

Quick question - why does R2 look black-and-white in some space scenes?  I thought it was an error on the print until I confirmed it in Adywan's reconstruction.

Finished scanning.  I now have three scans of reel 1, four scans of reel 2, and four scans of reel 3.  Started assembly last night... am six minutes through reel 1.

twooffour said:

A question about jazz drums, doesn't the whole practising thing they've got going on with all the rudiments and technique, include being able to actually play evenly?

That's an interesting question.  Yeah, I certainly spent many years drilling those rudiments and how to apply them. Somewhere along the line, you learn to make them flow with the ups and downs of an improviser.  The biggest problem I had playing rock was getting my bass drum to sound even.  In a jazz group, the bass drum ranges from tiny nudges to explosive bombs, even in the same measure. In rock, the bass drum is so steady it can often just as well be synthesized and played on a pad.  I just couldn't make my bass drum sound solid like that - if I didn't concentrate really hard, my bass drum would waver in volume.  But a rock bass drum sound would be the fastest way to get yourself run out of a jazz group.

I know Buddy Rich's single strokes sound damn even and controlled ;)

Yeah, Buddy was a freak of nature.  Saw him several times and still wonder how on earth anyone could achieve that much facility.  It's interesting to compare him with someone like Billy Higgins.  Buddy could play circles around someone like that, but ask a jazz musician who they'd rather listen to.

EyeShotFirst said:

Shame, I've been searching high and low for a jazz drummer. Got too tired of all these young metal/rock drummers that play too damn loud.

My last drummer had his whole set mic'd so he could be louder.

Jazz drummers have the best dynamics.

Jazz drumming requires constant use of dynamics. By contrast, rock drumming requires dynamic consistency.  When I found myself in rock settings, I had no problem playing any of the patterns, but never sounded quite right because my hits weren't all at at a uniform volume. And on the flip side, it's why a better rock drummer would often sound stiff in a jazz setting.

Every music is hard to play well, and just because you're good at a more "technically advanced" style doesn't mean you can pick up one of the so-called less demanding styles and sound decent.  I was fairly in demand as a sideman because I could play almost anything, but I knew when I wasn't in a jazz setting that I never sounded any more than passable. Sure, Wes Montgomery could play circles around Jimmy Page, but Led Zeppelin would suck if Wes were the lead guitarist.

And if you want to hear some really sorry-ass jazz, check out some of the YouTube clips of the great classical pianist Berezovsky playing jazz.  He made some claims about jazz being easy, made a fool of himself in some clubs and then followed it up with a bunch of demeaning remarks (also on a youtube interview) about how there is nothing to it.  Judging from his play, he never had a clue.  By contrast, Vladimir Horowitz and Art Tatum had a sort of mutual admiration thing going, each claiming that the other was the true genius.

tom said:

How much heat is being absorbed from the light source used for image capture?

I don't know the answer in this 35mm case, but my 16mm workprinter uses a standard decorative lightbulb - significantly lower intensity than a projector bulb because it doesn't need to project the film, just light it up.  You can even leave the projector lit on a single frame without damage to the print. The more recent versions use LED bulbs that emit considerably less heat even than mine.

One common problem is due to very low humidity during the winter.  This can cause temporary 'buckling' of film due to moisture loss at the edges, giving the film a cupped look when laid flat.  If the print is stored at proper temperature and humidity it'll go away.

That is really useful information that I wasn't aware of and could be useful to me at some point.  Thanks for sharing that.  Although here in CA it is the winters that are humid, and the summers that are dry.

I don't know if I understand your question. We don't sell anything here.  The Puggo Grande restoration fits on a single layer DVD - if you download the files you can burn the DVD yourself. Most of the editing and restoration projects discussed here are available for free download on rapidshare, megaupload, newsgroups, or as a torrent.  People generally post on the thread where to find it, or if you can't find how to get it, you can ask on the thread for someone to tell you.  I actually don't know where it is posted -- I just do the restoration, someone else makes it available for download.

If you want to buy the actual 16mm print itself, it has been out of print for many years.  You would have to watch eBay or one of the 16mm forums for a used copy.  And of course you would need a 16mm projector :)

I paid for college by working clubs as a jazz drummer.  Biggest influences: Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, etc.  I quit about 10 years ago and haven't played a gig since.  I'm so rusty now that I doubt I could.

Is anyone on this board living in Japan?

boba feta said:

 You kept the original scans? How many gigs is that?

Not bad, only about 20.  Although I do several scans, I edit them together into a single scan and that is all I keep.