Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda

evan1975 said:

Confused Matthew, who I usually disagree with, weighs in on the Blu:

http://confusedmatthew.com/Random-Rants.php

Matthew's thesis is consistent with my claim that Lucas has lost the capacity for self-reflection. I believe there is a clinical term for that, but not being a psychiatrist I don't know what it is.  Anyhow, if you have no capacity for self-reflection, the following types of actions follow:

• repeating the same mistakes over and over,
• considering any criticism purely an irritant and not worth considering,
• believing that every idea you have is a good one,
• not listening to any opposing opinions, and
• surrounding yourself exclusively with enablers.

hairy_hen said:

Since you were the one to do it, we ran our quill pens through it.

I saw what you did there...

generalfrevious said:

I wish Lucas never went into filmmaking. He has tarnished his legacy too many times over to redeem himself.

With all due respect... nonsense.

Ginge said:

Hairy, I'm with you in that I hate "close the blast doors". Like you, I thought it was a SE addition when I first heard it in 1997. No other stormtrooper in any of the three films sounds like that guy! It sounds like it was added later on to give a reason as to why the doors close. I hate it, I know others that hate it and if you do an alternate mix, I really hope it's not included because I wouldn't be able to listen to it.

Just as an opposing viewpoint, in 1977 I heard it in the theaters 3 times, and the subsequent "open the blast doors" never failed to get a laugh from the audience as a result.  When I bought my first VHS tape of SW in the early 1990s I was furious that the line wasn't included.  I thought it was a later decision to remove it!  In any case, it most definitely was not an SE edition.  In fact, since it was on the mono mix, it's probably fair to say that more people heard the line in 1977, than not.

Was it really viral, or did CNN call it viral in the hopes it would go viral?

It was ok... what caught my eye was that the wipes were SW wipes.

Well, that was more than I could justify anyways.  But too bad I can't read German... didn't even know that buy it now was an option!

WhatsMyName said:

Though there were some issues, i thought it was the best version of the films.

So just to be clear, you believe that the versions of the OT on the blu-ray are better versions of the film than appeared in theaters in 1977, 1980, and 1983?

red5-626 said:

http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/how-do-they-do-it-restoring-film-at-the-bfi/

That's a fabulous documentary.  I love when the woman says it's an "honor" to be able to work with the original old films.  Contrast Lucas, for whom the old films "don't exist" anymore to him.

Let's try not to forget that the preservations/restorations coming out of this forum keep getting better, not worse!  And public outcry is on the upswing, for the first time in history.  I'm hopeful.

Fenriz said:

You all do such a great job, really... perhaps most people out there, especially the generation, which is growing up in this sterile, plastic, CGI filled, dehumanized movie culture can`t nearly appreciate nor understand how important your work is.

I have faith in the upcoming generation(s).  Remember, Harmy himself is but 23 himself, right?  In fact, I think it's more likely the younger folks are going to be the ones to ultimately save these films.

Ginge said:

You're right, I should keep that kind of stuff to PMs. Noted. 

I wouldn't even put it in PMs, which are still tied to the forum.  Completely separate in emails would be more appropriate.

Harmy did his best to make the lightsaber colors match what they looked like originally.  The only reason he would change them, would be to change them BACK to what they were originally.

Get DJ's too :)

By the way, I have pretty much decided to produce both an upscaled version, and a standard DVD-5 version.  The reason being, there are still a lot of people out there who are only prepared to deal with standard DVDs, and so I think more people will see it if it is also produced in that format.  Plus it's kinda fun to make the menus and throw on an extra or two.  It shouldn't change the schedule to make it in both formats simultaneously.  Thoughts?

Laserschwert said:

"No, there is another."

Shorthand for "no, there is another thing I have to fix."

YES, when the film came out it was razor sharp, at least in the best theaters on opening day.  Look at properly preserved prints on blu-ray such as "2001", which was made in 1968, and for which the blu-ray was sourced directly from a newly-minted 70mm print of the original film.  It's as good or better than modern digital source material.  A pristine 70mm print beats blu-ray hands down for detail, resolution, color, and sharpness.  All those people who say that if we want the OOT we should want it looking like crap because that's how old films look simply don't know what they're talking about. Yes films get beat up with use, but that doesn't mean you should preserve the beat up version.

Some people say they want to see the film as THEY experienced it in a theater. To me, that's like saying I first saw it on YouTube so it should be preserved in YouTube quality.  I want to see it in its original form as it was seen in an ideal theater projection with a pristine print.  That is the original work of art at its most grand.

It sounds from your description like you would enjoy any of the theatrical preservations mentioned in this thread - DJ's or Harmy's.  (When I saw Harmy's it practically made me cry - spooky how much it reminded me of when I was 17 and saw SW for the first time.)  If you're really hard-core, you might get a kick out of mine too.  None of them contain the CGI crap and other changes that make up the SE.  Trust me, we share your values.

I'm all for supporting Harmy in whatever way is appropriate... we just need to be careful not to get him into trouble.  There are people on the other side of the aisle, so to speak, that might very much like to paint his efforts in a negative light. And if LFL were to accuse any of us of collecting money for fan-edits, it could shut us all down.

The X0 and OCP situations have left some of us a bit wary whenever the subject of $$ comes up.

Yeah, I had some trouble following the story too... does the LoC have an original print or not?  In either case, perhaps there is a typo somewhere in the article, or something missing?

If by "back then" you mean in 1977, then no, in my opinion Harmy's is more like things looked in 1977.  If by "back then" you mean in 1984, well I did see SW in the theater once at a late-night showing in 1984, and the print was so beat up, dirty, and faded, that yes it did look quite like the Puggo Grande does now.

Why not just get them and see for yourself which one(s) you like?  They don't cost anything, other than downloading time.

That's just the gate, not the entire machine.

Although I've been to Skywalker Sound a few times, actually meeting George seems like it would be really uncomfortable to me.  It would be like there's a big pink elephant in the room that we wouldn't be allowed to discuss.

red5-626 said:

The round thing that puts the image sideways looked like that box thing that you Project into. ?

Any way I was thinking of something like this only HD and 16mm

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWKyd67P2HI

The Workprinter doesn't project into a box.  There is a magnifying lens that the camera zooms through and focuses on the emulsion side of the film.

Your link shows an interesting telecine unit. Judging by the Tobin website, their newest 8mm units also use a frame-by-frame approach like the Workprinter.  They are definitely more expensive... a 3CCD system is almost $6K for 8mm and $7K for 16mm... that's 2-3x the price of the workprinters.  I can't see what advantage it offers other than the camera being built in (although the snipers have that too). Saying that no computer is needed isn't really an "advantage"... you'd still have to capture to something (they only provide composite and svhs outputs, of course you're going to want a video card and computer to deal with that; they suggest a DVD recorder?!  I wouldn't want to edit off of that).  And there's no HD option for 16mm... the 16mm units look pretty primitive by comparison with the moviestuff units.  For 8mm, you have to provide an HD camcorder just like the workprinter.

The build quality looks nice and rugged, and they look easy to use.  They look like they'd be handy for bulk transfering home movies straight to DVD to customers.  But my initial impression is that for our purposes they are a couple of steps behind what moviestuff has to offer.  Moviestuff is already offering 16mm RGB-separated Hi Def.

grisan said:

I just found an auction on german ebay for the Star Wars 8mm anamorphic Reel 2 from Ken Films.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/STAR-WARS-Super-8-Scope-Breitwand-Widescreen-Sammlerstuck-Rare-Collectible-/120784937853?pt=DE_DVDs&hash=item1c1f57e37d

I just failed to win a similar auction for the same scope reel (it went for $110).  I'll keep an eye on this one.

Angel said:

That quality and image ups and downs cant offer a nice viewing pleasure within result the movie be a rough cut and paste job.

I was going to ask if your brain is a "cut and paste job", but after seeing your artwork of Princess Leia I forgive you :)

I saw SW in the theater 4 times in the summer of 1977, including once in 70mm.  Right now, the version that comes closest to that experience in my opinion is Harmy's despecialized edition (not the "partly" despecialized edition... that's different).  It's in HD and looks incredible even on a big screen.  You will get differing opinions from different people, due to different conditions in different theaters, and because of differing memories.

I'm not aware of any softening in DJ's version.  Adywan has several versions so it depends on which one you are refering to.  There are also ones sourced directly off of laserdisc like Mothr's.  There are other restorations such as the very nice one by darth editous. If you want one sourced directly off of a print, there's mine, the puggo grande (but it's very rough).

And btw, it's spelled "restoration." :)

Oh yeah, it's definitely doable.  But somebody has to actually do it. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now :)   It would be cool if someone did.  The Maker Movement sounds cool.