Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda

msycamore said:

The correct Swedish title of the film is, "Stjärnornas Krig". I'm really interested to see this, mainly because of the subs, as it'll be interesting for me to see how the original translation fare to the modern.

Thanks, I couldn't figure out how to generate the ä.

Indeed, I think the most interesting thing likely to come of this will be in the translations of the subtitles back to English by people like yourself, after it's done.

Interesting observation...

On the PG "making of" extra, I noted that the 2nd reel on the PG had a different countdown leader than the 1st and 3rd reels.  I thought that this, plus reel 2 being a little more red, was evidence that the 2nd reel came from a different print.  Although I also noted that it had been cropped identically.

Well, lo and behold, this Swedish set of prints has the same discrepancy in countdown leaders, and again the 2nd reel has a different countdown than reels 1 and 3.  In fact, the countdowns correspond identically in both sets.

So now I am beginning to wonder if it is customary, for some reason, for 16mm sets of prints to have a different countdown for reel 2 as they have for reels 1 and 3 ??

STATUS REPORT:

• Finished Workprinter scan of all three reels.
  I wasn't as meticulous as I was for the PG, so a few scenes are a bit washed out... particularly on the Tantive IV and on Tatooine.
• Finished red reduction of all three reels.
  I only did a mild level of reduction. Some scenes would have benefitted from more, but then I would have had to do separate reductions scene-by-scene. That was more work than I was willing to do.
• Synched sound on reel 1.
  This print was the source of the sound for the PG, but since the Workprinter doesn't grab sound, synching still has to be done by hand.
• Resized reel 1 and applied curved letterbox.
  The slightly curved mask used to letterbox the PG was reused.
• Encoded reel1 sound (ac3) and video (mpv).

I'll start on reel 2 tomorrow.  Still need to collect a few screen shots and make a webpage for them on my puggo site.

Keep all expectations in check... this will certainly be worse than the PG. Noticeable drop in quality due to red shift and sloppy exposure settings. The subtitles are annoying if you don't know Swedish.  Most people will probably only want it for the mystery extra!

It’s time to start a thread on the Swedish subtitled 16mm print “preservation” effort that is nearing completion.  I put “preservation” in quotes, because I am admittedly not putting as much effort into this as I did the Puggo Grande.

The source is a 16mm print of “Star Wars” with Swedish subtitles and mono mix. It was provided by Jaxxon, the same source as the better 16mm print used for the PG.  The sound is the same as used for the PG. The color on the print is much more red, and it has proven difficult to effectively remove very much of the red without losing detail in many of the scenes, so even though I have removed quite a bit of red, the final product will still be quite pink. I was not willing to go through scene-by-scene with different color corrections… there are other, more interesting SW projects I am eager to get started on.

Interestingly, this print seems to be just as cropped as the PG, except on the top instead of on the bottom!

More details will follow, as well as a few screen shots. But for now, an important detail needs to be decided… what to call this thing??  I hesitate to put the name “Puggo” in the title, because I am not really putting my best effort into it.  It is unabashedly “for completists only”.  So, any ideas? The Swedish subtitle for “Star Wars” is “Sjarnornas Krig”, and the Swedish word for “pug” is “mops”.  But I’m not sure any of that makes for catchy material.

bkev said:

Puggo, any chance we could see some screens of the Swedish print? No pressure, but ever since I saw the behind-the-scenes I've always been curious to see how it looked - especially after I saw how well you handled the red tint on the PSA!

For my first pass on the Swedish print, I treated it like the PSA and used the CMYK virtualdub filter and the colors looked pretty decent, particularly in the opening scenes.  But as I went through it scene by scene, I noticed that removing that much red caused a lot of detail to disappear elsewhere in the movie.  I started going through scene by scene with different levels of red reduction, and decided it wasn't worth the effort.  I decided to just do a rough preserve of the film with a modest red reduction and leave it at that.  I've got a pretty serious queue of more interesting SW projects to do afterwards.

So again, don't get your hopes too high!  It is marginally interesting for the subtitles.  And for the fact that it seems to be equally-badly cropped - except on the TOP instead of on the bottom like the PG.  For completists only.  Oh, but there will be another surprise extra. :)

I'll start a new thread and post a few screen shots on my website.

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

Chirtman said:

A something I would personally like to see changed is Obi-wan calling Anakin Darth during their final battle.  I think it deserves a more personnal acknowledgement between them, "You can't win Anakin" re-affirms his previous loss and lava ordeal, along with "Only a master of evil Anakin" would fit eerily well after the child killing scenes in ROTS (along with all the other evil stuff he's probably been up to since then).

That would be disastrous, as it would make no sense unless the viewer saw the prequels before seeing SW.

We have big library book sales in this area a few times each year, and I commonly see various editions, hardcover and softcover, for sale at about $1 apiece.

I think people read the reviews on sites like Amazon before buying things.  One could only imagine if a Criterion set of the OOT was for sale alongside a more-buggered-up SE'2011, how many stars each would get, and what the reviews would say.  The result is a large number of people would choose the Criterion set.  There is no doubt in my mind that he knows that... but he can ensure that doesn't happen by simply not releasing the OOT and not making it available for others to restore.  Why he doesn't release a restored OOT himself, well, THAT I believe IS stubbornness and pride.

captainsolo said:

Instead of begging for the OT restoration and release; let's write Lucasfilm and request that the OT be loaned out to Criterion/Janus films.

There is no way that would ever happen, and it has nothing to do with Lucas' pride.  The fact is, he knows that if the OOT got restored and released, then nobody would buy his revised versions.  He'd lose a ton of money.

kenkraly2007 said:

The SE's are Lucas perfered versions of the films. He considers the original verisons of the films rough cuts.  I agree the original verisons of the films should be perserved and righly so I never said they should'nt be. 

I can understand some people preferring the SEs.  Both the originals and the SEs deserve to be preserved.  However, the fact that the originals are not being preserved is a tragic loss to film history, and therefore cultural history, since it was a film that revolutionized movie making.  It was the originals that garnered 7 academy awards.  It is highly unusual for a major film in modern times to be lost.  SW falls into that category.  That is why people who love cinema are (and if not, should be) upset.  And that is the purpose of this forum - to make the best effort to correct that wrong.  Given that we don't have legal recourse, this is the best we can do. Anyone who claims to love film should be glad there are people so passionate to act on behalf of preserving film history.

And note under the "other films" category, that many of us are making similar efforts to preserve other films as well.  It's not about Lucas - it's about the films, and about history.  I don't hate Lucas, I don't even know him, although I hate what he is doing to the great films that he made.

ChainsawAsh said:

I think if the 1997/2004 Jabba were replaced with the TPM Jabba, and the "stepping on the tail" thing could be somehow removed, I wouldn't mind the scene ... with one caveat.

<etc>

It still is considerably worse with the Jabba scene in it.  For one thing, the Greedo scene is much more in character with Han when you realize that he had no intention of seeing Jabba... he was just saying that to Greedo.  Like, "oh yeah, I was just going to go see him" yeah, right.  Having them then really meet with Han calling the shots just destroys the whole thing. And then with bad acting and CGI on top of it... yuck!

Don't get me wrong, 16mm can most definitely look fabulous converted to HD.  But I still don't think it is possible, at home, to get the kind of results that Hollywood can. They have scanning equipment that puts even the best moviestuff units (the Workprinters, Snipers, and the Quicksilver, which run nearly $10K) to shame. They also have software (and training) that is in a different league -- there is another world out there if you're MGM and can pay for the very very best.

Transferring films myself has caused me to look at films in a different way. Now when I look at an old film I can't help but notice the transfer, and often I'll see things and know exactly what caused them.  I think I do pretty good transfers, better than the majority of transfer houses out there for hire.  It bugs me when I see a cheap-ass transfer on a great classic. It REALLY bugs me when I see an old film and think that I could have done a better transfer myself on my Workprinter (which is surprisingly often). But when I see a really good, cost-is-no-object Hollywood transfer of a great film noir classic, I am blown away.

mcfly89 said:

I'm very excited about this, but we have to find a way to capture in HD. Can't we swap an HDV camera for the DV one in the workprinter?

It is possible to upgrade the Workprinter for HD, but it would take hundreds if not thousands of $ in equipment.  A new video card, something called a "velocity box", and several software upgrades.  And of course a good HD camera with manual adjustments.  And if you're going to do that, you might as well get the RGB upgrade too.  Considering this isn't an actual scope scan (it's faked in software), and that there is likely to be cropping like in the PG, and it's not a wetgate transfer, I'm not sure it's worth the cost and effort.

It is hard for me to believe that any 16mm scan, even from the most pristine of prints, could possibly come anywhere close to the corrected GOUTs.  I think of the PG and other similar captures as reference material for people researching what was printed on the films back in the years they were made. That reason is enough for me to get excited about transferring them. But you can always make it a little better, and once you start down, there's practically no end.

ChainsawAsh said:

Its only major flaw is the severe cropping inherent in the 16mm print,...

You mean besides all the scratches, furballs, warbles, dirt, and general all-around grunge?  :)

Seriously, thanks for the kind words.

Several of the lost Dr. Who episodes only exist because 16mm prints were found. That was a broadcast medium back then. It was also the rental format of choice before VHS... I remember my great uncle used to rent Disney films and a projector occasionally and we'd sit out in his backyard to watch a movie.

Easterhay said:

We would always wonder, though, what happened before episode four.

It was far more interesting when I was wondering.

One great example, is in the scene in SW(ANH) in the Death Star when Tarkin enters the room, and is asked how the locals will "keep control without the bureaucracy". It's an ingenious line, because immediately we see how the empire is using red tape as a weapon, and we imagine these complex layers of tedious steps a well-intentioned person would have to go through to make any change.  By contrast, in the PT, instead of triggering our imaginations, we are actually made to sit and watch that bureaucracy in all its tedious detail.

Similarly, I was much more intrigued with my mental image of Yoda as Jedi master, before GL went and showed me Yoda being plugged into a light socket.  He just doesn't know when to quit anymore.

I was 23 when I saw ROTJ it in the theater, and I loved it.  I still do, and I don't agree with a lot of the criticisms of ROTJ.  But that's probably because I never expected it to be as good as SW, which I first saw at age 17 and thought (and still think) was one of the most brilliant films of all time.  Films like that are, to quote Han, one in a million.  On a scale of 1-10, I've always ranked the films something like:

SW-11
ESB-8
ROTJ-7
TPM-5
AOTC-3
ROTS-2

The truth is, I never liked the Vader-as-father and Leia-as-sister angle. It just made the universe smaller and hokier.  Once they went that route, there was pretty much no way to grow a real saga. To me, SW is still SW, not ANH.  But Yoda was cool and Jabba was cool (well, not in the SW-SE, but in ROTJ).  And of all the SE revisions, those in ROTJ are surely the most ghastly.

rsortor said:

Another thing I noticed, this print is a smidgen dark, which virtually eliminates all the garbage mattes!

Brightness/darkness of the print is virtually inconsequential on the workprinter... illumination of the frames has a huge range of adjustment. They of course will also come out considerably sharper, so it's hard to judge from your pictures how scratched it might be. But the color balance in your shots bodes very well.

Easterhay, I think you've been dippin' way too deep into the kool-aid!

Whoa, nice color.

regularjoe said:

I am fairly new to the forums and just figured out via this forum your work on converting over the old Ken films super-8 condensed versions.  I would love to see these, haven't seen them since I did a mashup/fanedit of everything I had (including film I busted out of those Kenner toy cranked film viewers) back around '84.

No problem. I also did a conversion of a 16mm full length SW print, called the "Puggo Grande".  My sig has links to all the details of both the 8mm and 16mm captures.  I'll also be doing a 16mm print of ESB soon. And regarding those hand-cranked viewers, I have a capture of one of those up on YouTube (search for "Rescuing Star Wars"), and am working on the remaining ones. If you follow check out the Puggo Grande thread, you'll learn more than you'd ever want to know about these efforts.

I just do the restoration, I don't distribute them.  I think they get torrented now and then.

Easterhay said:

Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre.  Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now.  And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect?  It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet. 

This is a joke, right?

Rattlehead said:

I wasn't aware that any full prints were struck in 16mm!

<sigh>

rsortor said:

But I did carefully rewind it by hand, gently cleaning it and didn't feel any physical splices.. 

...

It's just as well that you've got a full plate with the Swedish print and the Puppies (which I'm anxious to see!) because I want to screen this print a few more times before letting it leave the nest ;-)

That's great that you've already cleaned it ... one less step for me :)

Be gentle on it...