Porkins4real

adywan said:

Now this is good 😉

https://imgur.com/a/6smO9

Very funny

TV’s Frink said:

Porkins4real said:

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

Oh hey a video review. Hard pass.

dahmaged if you can understand Phasma and bits 'o Finn complaints, I think you have to add BB-8 in there as well. Specifically, the walker sequence.

Why though? Chewie once hijacked a walker. Droids can’t?

Well, Chewie is an experienced pilot that uses his arms everyday. BB-8 is a droid that seemingly relies on a his data port or whatever to jack in to transportation vessels to operate them. It is a stretch.

Isn’t that what he does though? Or are you saying that’s hard to believe (but that’s what droids do)?

BB8 Tying up and gagging people was a bigger stretch.

He used the Force.

Make sense as now, you just ‘catch’ the force and can do anything with it.

dahmage said:

caught a matinee showing on my day off today. 2D Imax. 4th time. Excellent movie.

I really can’t understand 90% of the criticisms in this thread. there are like 10% of them that i can understand, but the rest?

• I can understand not liking parts of the Canto Bight sequence
• I can understand wanting to know a bit more about snoke (curiosity and all that)
• I can understand being annoyed by Phasma, and bits of Finn as well

not much else though.

Most of the criticism is not the movie as a stand-alone item, but how the movie fits into the SW universe.

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

Oh hey a video review. Hard pass.

dahmaged if you can understand Phasma and bits 'o Finn complaints, I think you have to add BB-8 in there as well. Specifically, the walker sequence.

Why though? Chewie once hijacked a walker. Droids can’t?

Well, Chewie is an experienced pilot that uses his arms everyday. BB-8 is a droid that seemingly relies on a his data port or whatever to jack in to transportation vessels to operate them. It is a stretch.

Isn’t that what he does though? Or are you saying that’s hard to believe (but that’s what droids do)?

BB8 Tying up and gagging people was a bigger stretch.

Zak fett said:

Porkins4real said:

flametitan said:

This isn’t a criticism of the film, but kind of a Fridge moment for me: How does Finn know how to pilot a sandskimmer? (Vaguely; he forgets to engage a certain stabilization thing but seems to have no issues after that) Wasn’t the whole reason he teamed up with Poe in TFA because he didn’t know how to pilot aircraft? I don’t think it has to do with being unfamiliar with a TIE and familiar with the sandskimmer. After all, Star wars seems to imply that piloting experience is a transferable skill; piloting one ship means you’re good at piloting them all. Nevermind that the Sandskimmer seems like it’s supposed to be a vehicle that was outdated before Finn was born, so he’d likely never be trained to pilot one.

Very true. Frankly, I was more confused but what the plan was. They had no weapons that could be of any effect, so was it a Kamakazi run? If so then Rose is a total douche for letting everyone but her and Fin die before deciding it was a bad idea.

Plus even if they did have a plan, it clearly did nothing. All it did was kill a bunch of people (slimming the rebellion down still).

But it looked cool as hell!

Anyhow it would have been nice if there was a point to it that was clear in the movie.

flametitan said:

This isn’t a criticism of the film, but kind of a Fridge moment for me: How does Finn know how to pilot a sandskimmer? (Vaguely; he forgets to engage a certain stabilization thing but seems to have no issues after that) Wasn’t the whole reason he teamed up with Poe in TFA because he didn’t know how to pilot aircraft? I don’t think it has to do with being unfamiliar with a TIE and familiar with the sandskimmer. After all, Star wars seems to imply that piloting experience is a transferable skill; piloting one ship means you’re good at piloting them all. Nevermind that the Sandskimmer seems like it’s supposed to be a vehicle that was outdated before Finn was born, so he’d likely never be trained to pilot one.

Very true. Frankly, I was more confused but what the plan was. They had no weapons that could be of any effect, so was it a Kamakazi run? If so then Rose is a total douche for letting everyone but her and Fin die before deciding it was a bad idea.

chyron8472 said:

dahmage said:

ElectroDroid said:

Interesting fact:

The DJ character was going to be played by Lando Calrissian, but RJ decided that Lando wouldn’t outright betray the heroes.

source?

https://theplaylist.net/star-wars-lando-calrissian-absence-20171219/

"Of course I’d love to see Lando,” Johnson said. “In terms of Lando, I briefly considered — would he work in the Benicio [del Toro] part, [DJ].” If you’ve seen the movie you know DJ is the morally ambiguous hacker/codebreaker who helps and betrays Finn and Rose within the span of a few hours, helping them escape prison on Canto Bight, but then selling them out to the Imperial First Order forces when the first opportunity presents itself.

“I don’t think you would ever buy that Lando would just completely betray the characters like that and have that level of moral ambiguity,” Johnson explained. “Cause we love Lando and you’d come into it with that [expectation]. And also, DJ, the character that they met, for the purposes of Finn’s character, had to be a morally ambiguous character that you’re not sure about, that you’re guessing about, and we already know that we love the character of Lando so it just wouldn’t have played in that part story wise.”

“You have to write organically,” Johnson said. “Otherwise it leads to contrived places. Which is just to say it’s all about the needs of the story and there’s only so much room on the table for… favorite characters to be in the movie.”

Nice to see they treated lando better than luke

NFBisms said:

Racer Cool said:

NFBisms said:

I think disliking TLJ and not thinking its direction was worth taking is totally valid. Those against it and its Luke are only judging it in the context of their own personal perceptions of what the franchise has been to them and should continue being. There’s probably something to be said - positive or negative - about how Johnson opted to double down on a specific interpretation of the world, rather than keep it broad enough for everyone to appreciate.

No, that’s not quite right. We are judging it in context of what has come before. Meaning, what has already been developed over an entire trilogy concerning the character of Luke. Luke was “the new hope”. The whole point of the original trilogy was that good can overcome evil, primarily by taking the high ground, being patient, facing ones fears, sacrificing self, and ultimately by redemption. Against all advice and conventional wisdom, Luke persisted in his mission to save his father, and therefore destroy the Sith. He proved that he was right, and he succeeded, sacrificing himself in the process. (He didn’t actually end up dying, but he was willing to do that and nearly did). Same thing for running across the galaxy to save his friends.

But suddenly, with no real transition, here’s Luke abandoning his friends (and his own family!) when they’re struggling in a fighting retreat against the new bad guys, and on top of it he even tries to kill his own nephew, in his sleep, because he sensed darkness within him. Darkness…? Within a young Skywalker…? Say it ain’t so!

…um…Luke, have you completely forgotten everything you’ve done, seen, and learned…? Did Palpatine’s lighting assault actually fry your brain?

In no way does this make any sense at all, and goes against everything Lucas and company worked hard to develop in the entire OT. So yes, with respect, we’re stuck in our established perceptions of who Luke is and should be. Maybe, as I said, if there was some transition that shows us why Luke would veer so far off course (it won’t be sudden because radical changes like that are a process), then maybe it could be accepted. But as it is, it makes no sense at all. Even the Prequel Trilogy took three films to show a slow corruption of Anakin, and his ultimate fall.

This times 12 parsecs!

TV’s Frink said:

Porkins4real said:

yhwx said:

Porkins4real said:

Luke in ROTJ puts down his lightsaber to face the emperor - the darkest man in the universe.

Luke in TLJ takes out his lightsaber and considers murdering his nephew in his sleep because he MAY turn to the dark side.

sounds like the same dude to me.

You’re missing the key context in ROTJ — Luke almost considers killing Vader which would complete his turn to the darkness.

Yes and likewise killing your nephew in his sleep would turn you to the darkside. That is why it makes no sense that he would considering doing it.

It’s the old “is it better to kill one person to save countless lives?” argument…so how would it not make sense for him to even consider it?

Becuase the future is not certain and luke knows this.

adywan said:

And to those that say that part of the backlash against TLJ has nothing to do with racist/ misogynistic/hompophobic feelings in the SW community, you only have to see this one post on facebook and read the comments:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1682570385096504&set=gm.531837527203014&type=3&theater&ifg=1

And that is just ONE post. I’m seeing shit like this all the time. It’s starting to flood the net now. My Youtube channel got spammed with this type of crap and its all over facebook. Comments galore about how Kennedy is pushing a female agenda and making all the males into pussys, pushing forced diversity just for the Asian market, that they didn’t need all this shit in the OT and the prequels did a proper job at showing what the races really are like, how Rey should have been a guy and it would have made her being so powerful believable because women are weaker than men, and it goes on, but there is so much that i would never repeat.

Yes, its fine that people don’t like this movie, but you cannot deny that a large section think they are on a crusade against anything that isn’t white powerful and male. It’s gotten a lot worse since a certain person was elected as now they think their beliefs are accepted. It just makes me sick what the fandom has become.

The internet has a bit of everything for everyone - both good an bad. Funny enough my youtube channels have never brought anything like this up, but likely because I would ignore it if it did. I believe Facebook also tracks what you have read and brings you more of the same assuming that is what you like to read.

I know there is much more being writing about how positive diversity is in the new SW films and the comments you are reading are on the fringe.

yhwx said:

Porkins4real said:

Luke in ROTJ puts down his lightsaber to face the emperor - the darkest man in the universe.

Luke in TLJ takes out his lightsaber and considers murdering his nephew in his sleep because he MAY turn to the dark side.

sounds like the same dude to me.

You’re missing the key context in ROTJ — Luke almost considers killing Vader which would complete his turn to the darkness.

Yes and likewise killing your nephew in his sleep would turn you to the darkside. That is why it makes no sense that he would considering doing it.

Luke in ROTJ puts down his lightsaber to face the emperor - the darkest man in the universe.

Luke in TLJ takes out his lightsaber and considers murdering his nephew in his sleep because he MAY turn to the dark side.

sounds like the same dude to me.

yhwx said:

yhwx said:

yhwx said:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
   Everything is bigger and better. Plot and script are great. May be considered one of the best films of all time.
2. Return of the Jedi
   The needed sequel to The Empire Strikes Back. You can’t have one without the other. I can tolerate some of the lower points of the film. Overall, a great end to the trilogy.
3. The Force Awakens
   A modern film in all the good ways. I like the diverse cast, the script, and the plot. Rey is great. Edges out Star Wars for me.
4. Star Wars
   A solid film. Not as good as the other ones, but still great. It is very important in that it introduces all the characters.
5. The Phantom Menace
   A terrible, terrible film. Edges out the two other prequels because it’s at lease semi-entertaining in its badness. Also contains some questionably racist characters.
6. Attack of the Clones
   Absolutely horrendous. Bad for the same reasons all the prequels are bad: A terrible script. The “romance” story is spectacularly bad.
7. Revenge of the Sith
   Taken on its own, Revenge of the Sith may be the best of the prequels. However, it finds its place at the bottom of the list because it failed at what it was supposed to do: Tell the story of how the good man who was Anakin Skywalker turn to Darth Vader. The first two also failed at this, and the last one failing is just sad. If I removed this factor, I might have put Attack of the Clones here.

Updated ranking, which I am not completely satisfied with:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
   This will always be the best Star Wars movie. Great plot, characters, and dialog.

2. Star Wars
   I didn’t want to bump this one all the way down to the number five spot with my addition of Rogue One, so I bumped it up here.

3. Return of the Jedi / The Force Awakens
   No extra thoughts.

4. Rogue One
   I think I liked Rogue One more than the average Star Wars fan. A great plot with some standout characters make it a great film.

5. The Phantom Menace
   At some points The Phantom Menace gets to the so bad it’s good point, so that at least makes it half-watchable, plus it doesn’t really have anything to do with the rest of the movies.

6. Attack of the Clones
   Ugh.

7. Revenge of the Sith
   No.

I’m probably going to stay away from posting for a while now. Goodbye.

New ranking:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi / The Force Awakens / Rogue One
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Revenge of the Sith

I hated that I had to do a three-way tie, but c’est la vie.

I take it you don’t speak french. A group of three is a ménage à trois. (;

DominicCobb said:

No.

Yes.

LexX said:

Come on guys, every single topic is about arguing semantics here.

I don’t think this is true. I think every topic turns into a debate about the correct nomenclature.

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

Jeebus said:

Collipso said:

Just like VIII would explain Rey’s magical force powers?

All force powers are magical.

I meant how she magically acquired them.

The reason is there if you bother to look and think. Imagining that Luke’s training was typical or normal is the first problem. And then realizing that we’ve never seen anyone else’s training in the films. So Rey is only the second Jedi we have followed through the process. I’m not sure how many times Yoda has to point out the flaws in Luke’s thinking for people to realize that Yoda was desperate or Luke would never have been trained at all.

I just don’t buy your reasoning. Rey copying Kylo doesn’t work for me, because watching someone walking a tightrope, doesn’t mean I can also instantly do it. Like I said learning to access and use the Force was intimately connected to personal growth in both the OT and the PT. That element has now been completely removed. The Force awakens in you, because it somehow needs to be in balance, which would then also mean, since it awoke in Rey to counter Kylo, the Force has somehow also predetermined she’s to be or is a force for good. Though I’m not a big fan of the PT’s Chosen One angle, that at least questioned the whole idea of believing in a prophecy predicting balance, and whether the end justifies the means. Anakin did bring balance to the Force, but at a terrible price. Was Anakin created by the Sith? It was hinted at, and Lucas ultimately decided to leave it as a question mark. So, was he ultimately a force for good, or evil? With Rey it thusfar seems pretty well answered, as in my view she’s never been seriously tempted.

I think you’re making a false comparison. Walking a tightrope is a very specified skill that takes a lot of balance. It’s something very artificial because you don’t find tightropes in nature. However if you compare to other things like painting, drawing, singing, math, pod racing, flying, building things, and a host of other items, there’s a lot more realism in what they’ve done with Rey than you seem to give them credit for. People try something and discover that the course they’ve taken in life has prepared them for it and they’re good at it from the moment they start. I’m not saying that Rey is just picking up these skills on the Fly, I’m saying that her life on Jakku prepared her and that she started out in tune with nature and the force even though she didn’t know how to use it and when she sees kylo use it she can see what he’s doing and is copying him, and if it first she doesn’t get it right she does it again until she does get it right. It’s almost as if she can see what he’s doing on a level that lets her copy it precisely. Sort of like if you’re a computer programmer and you’re watching over someone shoulders as they write code that you’ve never tried to do before and you see exactly what they’re doing and so you go to your computer and you try to do the same thing and it doesn’t work the first time but then you to do it again and get it right. It is an unusual though not unheard of ability and we are seeing it in action with the force. Where Luke’s background on Tatooine did not prepare him. Yoda had to retrain him. He had doubts he had dreams and they all got in the way of him accessing the force. When he needed it and didn’t doubt it it was there. But when he thought the X-Wing was too big he couldn’t lift it. Rey sees how Kylo does things so she knows it can be done, sees how to do it, then does it herself. It is not magic. The force is often equated with magic, but the way Rey is picking up these skills is totally believable.

The old Jedi training (which we have never seen in it’s entirety) begins early in childhood. Even 9 year-old Anakin is too old. It progresses, teaching them how to access the force and what they can do with it in a slow methodical process to avoid the temptation of the dark side and build a sure and confident Jedi. The closest we have gotten to that is in Rebels. Ezra has been picking up things faster and easier than Luke. Rey is basically a force genius. Nothing magical about it at all. Let’s take a real world example. T.E. Lawrence was a cartographer. He became a great leader. What training did he have in being a general? He was just a lieutenant. He certainly had no experience. Yet the failures he encountered were not at the beginning. Then let’s take Einstein an his theory of relativity. He came up with the idea in a bus and turned his daydream into provable mathmatic equations. When they make movies about them do they bother explaining how they learn? Nope. They focus on their personal development. Sometime learning a skilled is the story, sometimes that comes too easy and the interesting story lies in other parts of their life. We spent one movie watching Luke struggle to overcome his doubts. Doing it again would be repetative. We skipped that part of Anakin’s life. With Rey, the interesting part is not her learning the force, but her role in the Skywalker saga as the foil to Kylo and part of the Resistance/Rebellion.

Eisstein is a pretty bad example. He did, of course, have incredible natural ability but spent his entire life working on it and the Theory of Relativity took him 8 years to complete. He did not just see someone do math/physics one day and then was the best in the world at it.

As for TE Lawrence is much closer to TLJ Luke than Rey as his exploits are largely sensationalized and he did undergo a lot of training and had the support of several folks with more experience than him. It is the story of an exceptional and unique person who seemed to be very good at most things he tried, other than relationships.

TV’s Frink said:

Nah, you don’t need to, trust me. 😉

Given I haven’t since they came out, I am not in any huge rush.

TV’s Frink said:

Porkins4real said:

This is fun:

A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
the Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

I’m surprised to see TLJ as high as it is given how much you’ve complained about it, but I think this is a perfectly reasonable order. As long as the three PT movies are the last three, I can understand pretty much any ordering of the other six.

TLJ is a tough one to rank. I liked the movie, just didn’t like the implications it had for the SW universe. It is a little new to me right now, I might go see it again and see what I think, as I was thrown off when from scene one it was not the movie I thought I was coming to see.

In fairness to the PT I need to watch them again as they have faded from memory.

TV’s Frink said:

Porkins4real said:

Jeebus said:

Porkins4real said:

chyron8472 said:

What exactly would you guys say are specific reasons why TLJ is so divisive?

Not why it sucks, or why it’s wonderful—but what about the film seems to (apparently) be making it a love it or hate it kind of thing?

Like, if I were to have a conversation with someone I know irl about TLJ, and if I said it seems to be really divisive regarding the fanbase, and they asked me why, what could I say?

…I’m having this hypothetical conversation with family in my head, but I don’t know how to explain conceptually why its divisive, especially to someone who hasn’t seen the film yet.

I would say it is that half the people in the world are dumber than average and the other half are smarter than average creates the divide.

And it just so happens that the smarter half agrees with you, right?

Fucking lol

I agree - LOL as it was a joke.

Especially as you are new here, you might want to be more obvious when you’re joking. Maybe a winky face would help next time.

Just assume every second thing I post it a Joke.

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

Jeebus said:

Collipso said:

Just like VIII would explain Rey’s magical force powers?

All force powers are magical.

I meant how she magically acquired them.

The reason is there if you bother to look and think. Imagining that Luke’s training was typical or normal is the first problem. And then realizing that we’ve never seen anyone else’s training in the films. So Rey is only the second Jedi we have followed through the process. I’m not sure how many times Yoda has to point out the flaws in Luke’s thinking for people to realize that Yoda was desperate or Luke would never have been trained at all.

This just seems REALLY wrong. The PT had lots of information on training Jedi. If you add in the Clone Wars (which you may choose to ignore) you get even more.

But I do agree the Luke’s is not typical, as we know he is older and rushed through the process more than usual. Rey is older than usual and was way more rushed.

This is fun:

A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
the Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

DominicCobb said:

Porkins4real said:

DominicCobb said:

I would wager it’s fair to say the die hard fans are about evenly split. I think most casual fans at least liked it, if not loved it. Thing with SW is there are a lot more casual fans.

I can’t say I agree, as a Movie, it was good but not a must-see for a casual star wars fan. Maybe a solid 6 or 7 out of 10 as a movie. I though Jamnji was a much better movie as far as entertainment goes.

Are you a casual fan or a die hard fan? I find the former hard to believe.

Neither? or either? I guess it depends on how you define it.

I am old enough to see the OT in theatres and as a kid I loved Star Wars. One summer I got borrow someone’s VCR before it was the kind of thing everyone had and watched ANH 100 plus time including watching it a few times in reverse. I owned the toys and played star wars a fair amount.

But being into Star Wars that deeply was not being ‘die hard’ it was just being a kid. I was also into Gi Joe and Spider Man etc.

After ROTJ I got older and didn’t pay much attention to SW. Never read a SW book, but did go see all the movies and watched some of the cartoons. Out of 9 live action movies, I probably have only been to the Theatre to see them 13 times? (OT when it came out, twice for ROTJ, then OT again when re-released) The PT only once, RO once, TFA twice and TLJ.

I am sure by the board’s standards, I am not a Die Hard, but at the same token, I can still do every line in ANH along with the movie, so hard to say I am a casual fan.

Mrebo said:

If you want to hear why TLJ is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbHUJEH-ERI

I think some of his premises are wrong and his analysis doesn’t speak to how the movie was executed, but he makes some observations worth considering.

Thanks, I really enjoyed that. Lot of solid points.

dupe

Jeebus said:

Porkins4real said:

chyron8472 said:

What exactly would you guys say are specific reasons why TLJ is so divisive?

Not why it sucks, or why it’s wonderful—but what about the film seems to (apparently) be making it a love it or hate it kind of thing?

Like, if I were to have a conversation with someone I know irl about TLJ, and if I said it seems to be really divisive regarding the fanbase, and they asked me why, what could I say?

…I’m having this hypothetical conversation with family in my head, but I don’t know how to explain conceptually why its divisive, especially to someone who hasn’t seen the film yet.

I would say it is that half the people in the world are dumber than average and the other half are smarter than average creates the divide.

And it just so happens that the smarter half agrees with you, right?

Fucking lol

I agree - LOL as it was a joke.