Patrick R.

User Group: Members
Join date: 10-May-2003
Last activity: 10-Apr-2016
Posts: 229

Post History

Post: #41522
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/41522/action/topic#41522
Time: 2-Apr-2004 11:06 PM

I would check www.dvdrhelp.com for more information. They have a free tool called a bitrate calculator where you can input the length of the movie and the audio format and it will tell you how high you can set your bitrates in order to fit your movie on one DVD. I'm looking at using AC-3 when I redo my LD conversion as it takes up a lot less space than uncompressed PCM audio and the quality is virtually identical as long as you use the right AC-3 encoder.

Patrick

Post: #40264
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/40264/action/topic#40264
Time: 26-Mar-2004 12:08 AM

I'm glad I did mine in 16:9. I'm also redoing mine since I have found an AC-3 converter that is affordable and is compatible with my Pioneer. So, hopefully, I can fit each film on one disc and keep the bitrates high. The dual layer burners and media are also coming out this year, so it should be quite interesting.

Patrick

Post: #40227
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/40227/action/topic#40227
Time: 25-Mar-2004 7:15 PM

I have one question concerning 16:9 TV's. If you view the 4:3 DVD's on a 16:9 TV and use the zoom feature, do the subtitles in the bottom black bar get cut off of the screen?

Patrick

Post: #37401
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/37401/action/topic#37401
Time: 13-Mar-2004 6:12 PM

Well, I have an update concerning Anamorphic Enhancement. There are some pictures posted at DVDRHelp.com here. That compare the same scene in both 4:3 and 16:9.

There are 4 pictures towards the bottom of the page. All four were captured using IRE7.5 which is what I should have used on my DVD's and will use when I recapture them and create new ones. Two of the pictures had the TMPNGEnc Plus option, Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr instead CCIR601, turned on and the other two had it turned off. I think the ones with that option turned off look better because more stars are visible. These captures were made using composite cables. I used S-Video cable for mine and think the composite ones look better. S-Video is a better standard, but LD is stored in a composite data format, so there is nothing to gain by using S-Video.

Now back to 16:9 enhancement. If you look at the pictures on that link, I think the 16:9 pictures look just as good as the 4:3 ones. You may not gain detail by going 16:9, but it keeps you from having to use the zoom on a 16:9 TV. It also doesn't matter whether you have a 16:9 TV now or not because you probably will within the next 5 years or so. If you play a 16:9 movie on a 4:3 set, it will look correct as long as your DVD Player is set to 4:3 mode. The reason for this is that there is a flag in the MPEG-2 stream that tells the player how to display the video. The player looks at the flag and compares it to the mode it is set to. If it is set to 16:9, it will display it that way. Ultimately, the player's mode setting will determine how it is displayed. Obviously, if you have a 16:9 TV, the player should be set to 16:9 mode.

I didn't having a problem with cropping when I made my DVD's. The only thing I cropped were the black bars on the top and bottom. This has to be done or your image will have black bars on all 4 sides. When I did this, new pure black bars were generated on the top and bottom that looked better than the black bars the LD had. I sometimes could see analog noise in the original black bars, but that is not present in the new bars. I did crop the subtitles out, but it was a very simple process for me to recreate new subtitles which look better than the ones in the bottom black bar. It was a simple process to create new subtitles. I was able to time them perfectly with the original ones because the cropping of the black bars doesn't occur until the encoding stage. The subtitles were created during the editing stage using Sub Station Alpha (SSA for short). The subtitle script was imported into virtual dub as a filter, so I was able to view the original subtitles the same time as mine and was able to adjust the timing until both match. If the timing didn't match, I would change my script in SSA, save it again, reload the filter and script into Virtual Dub, and compare both mine and the LD subtitles until the timing matched perfectly. It was a little time-consuming, but didn't take me more than a few hours. Jedi even took less time even though it had more subtitles because I knew exactly what I was doing by then.

Many may disagree with me on this, but I believe the subtitles for Star Wars look better in the video image instead of the black bars because that is where they were in the theater since there are no black bars there. I really hate the subtitles for Phantom Menace because they have a fade effect which was not present in the theater. I also like yellow subtitles more than white.

To sum everything up. It is easy to convert to 16:9 without losing the original aspect ratio of the image. There is even a setting I used in TMPNGEnc on my encodes called Video Arrange Method which has several choices. I used Full Screen (Keep Aspect Ratio). The new black bars are going to be better than the original ones because they will be pure black and you won't see any analog noise in them like you might if you use the LD bars. Lastly, it is my opinion that the subtitles are better in the video image than in the black bar because that is where they would be if you see the film in the theater. Making subtitles is a little time-consuming, but it is not hard to do.

I'm going by my opinion on this, but I believe it is best to convert any widescreen 4:3 source to 16:9. I don't believe the same to be true if it is a 4:3 full screen source, because there are no black bars to crop. You will just be cropping the image itself. If you don't crop anything, you may get an image that is stretched out of proportion or will have black bars on all 4 sides. If you zoom in on that image to fill a 16:9 TV, it will be stretched out of proportion. If I don't crop the black bars when I convert 4:3 widescreen to 16:9 widescreen, I will get black bars on all 4 sides. Those are the reasons why I crop the black bars. The extras feature both full screen and widescreen. That is also the reason I left the extras disc I created in 4:3 instead of converting it to 16:9.

I'm sure you can easily achieve 16:9 with just about any encoder. I choose TMPNGEnc Plus because it is very powerful and only costs $50.00 U.S. It is very slow compared to some of the other encoders, but I let it do my encoding overnight when I'm not using my PC. I'm sure the Cinema Craft and Main Concept Encoders can do the same and they are faster than TMPNGEnc Plus, but they are more expensive. The pro version of Cimena Craft Encoder is $2000.00 U.S. and Main Concept is $150.00 U.S.

Again, I apologize for all of the techno babble, but I figured I would explain why I prefer to encode in 16:9 and how easy it is.

Patrick

Post: #37216
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/37216/action/topic#37216
Time: 11-Mar-2004 9:47 PM

Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
Q level? Explain for us mortals.

I'll do my best. Hopefully, TR47 will let me know if I am right or wrong on this and jump in. The Q stands for quantization. Q-Level is a bit tricky. In MPEG terms, it describes how much information is thrown away to reach a target bitrate that you set. My encoder, TMPENGEnc Plus, describes the q as quality.

So, my basic understanding is that if you set the proper Q-Level for your bitrate, you won't be throwing away too much information and degrade the output quality. I'm rusty on this because I use 2 pass Variable bitrate instead of Constant Quality which is the encoding method that you set the Q-Level or Quality Level from 0 to 100.

For more information, check this link.

Hope this helps.

BTW, I'm experimenting with recapturing my LD set. I don't know if I can match TR47's, but I know I can do better than my own previous effort.

Patrick

Post: #36906
Topic: George Lucas no longer cares
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/36906/action/topic#36906
Time: 10-Mar-2004 12:36 PM

I liked Spaceballs better than the prequels.

I'm still hoping to see The Hidden Fortress soon. I'm also planning on seeing several of Kurosawa's other films as soon as I can.

Did anyone read the news over at The Digital Bits about THX-1138 coming to DVD later this year with over 100 new effects shots. Man, does Lucas hate everything he has ever done in the past or what? I have more respect for remakes than Lucas' tinkering. At least the remakes never take the place of the original films they were based on.

Patrick

Post: #36575
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/36575/action/topic#36575
Time: 8-Mar-2004 3:52 PM

TR47 can you tell me what the bitrate is when hit display on your DVD Player? I'm kind of curious since I believe they have PCM audio.

I'm thinking of redoing my Definitive Collection LD's. Mine look better on the TV than the pictures I posted, but I want to see how good I can make them.

Patrick

Post: #36352
Topic: Creating the OT NEED HELP
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/36352/action/topic#36352
Time: 6-Mar-2004 8:20 AM

Also, many software capturing programs only capture at 720x480. I use WinDV and that is one that only captures at that resolution as far as I know.

It's not hard to convert to anamorphic especially if you already have the discs like the ones TR47 has. One way is to use DVD2AVI to convert back to AVI and use an encoder like TMPENGEnc Plus to convert to 16:9. The only thing is that you can't get any additional because the files have previously been captured and encoded previously. If there is no problems with the source, you shouldn't have any quality problems anyway.

Patrick

Post: #36131
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/36131/action/topic#36131
Time: 4-Mar-2004 6:47 PM

Those do look good. I took a look at mine on the TV and they look a whole lot better than they do on my monitor. Since I bought a new 250 Gb drive, I'm going to recapture all of the DC LD's, so I can improve upon them as I have time. Dual layered burners and media are supposed to come out this year as well.

Funny someone should mention the thread at DVDRHelp.

Patrick

Post: #35526
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35526/action/topic#35526
Time: 28-Feb-2004 3:31 PM

Was anyone able to go to the link and see my pictures?

Patrick

Post: #35531
Topic: Creating the OT NEED HELP
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35531/action/topic#35531
Time: 28-Feb-2004 11:38 AM

Well, it is a little tricky. I described how I did a 16:9 conversion. I don't want to call what I did Anamorphic because I'm sure the studio uses a different method when they do it. From what I understand, it is an expensive process involving the creation of a new digital master. I would really need to go back and read how they do it. They get the advantage of added resolution because they are using the film source when they are doing the telecine process (film to video conversion).
I'm sorry if my answer before was misleading.

Another reason is that some studios thought it would be cheaper to use the same LD master when they made their DVD and that no one would notice. They were wrong.

Mine simply plays in the correct aspect ratio no matter what type of TV you have. If you have a 16:9 TV and have your DVD Player setup correctly to the 16:9 mode, you will have an image that is not squished out of proportion and one that will not have black bars on the sides (it will only have smaller black bars on the top and bottom). If you play it on a 4:3 TV, it will appear correctly if your DVD Player is set to 4:3 mode and the image won't be too tall and skinny.

Patrick

Post: #35524
Topic: Creating the OT NEED HELP
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35524/action/topic#35524
Time: 28-Feb-2004 9:23 AM

Very few Laserdiscs were Anamorphic, but unfortunately none of them were the Star Wars LD's.

I converted my LD's to 16:9 when I made my DVD's. It's pretty easy to do with an encoder like TMPNGEnc Plus. The bootleggers probably used a similar process.

Patrick

Post: #35374
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35374/action/topic#35374
Time: 26-Feb-2004 7:40 PM

I hope everyone can see the pictures now. Sorry about that earlier. I can also resize them if they are too big.

Patrick

Post: #35351
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35351/action/topic#35351
Time: 26-Feb-2004 3:33 PM

This is what mine looks like. It doesn't look as TK47's because I used a lighter setting when I encoded.

http://www.geocities.com/krycek1205/cap003.jpg

I do think mine looks better than the Asian set with the exception of the dot crawl on the planet.

Here is a picture of what my subtitles look like.

http://www.geocities.com/krycek1205/cap005.jpg

Mine aren't perfect by any means, but they will get me by without having to buy the SE only DVD Set.
I may go back and redo them when I get a few things figured out. I like TK47's image. What was used to capture the video with? I have an ADVC-100.

I tried by putting the pictures up on a Geocities page, but I see they are still not working here.
If you want to see them, you can follow this link. Pictures

Patrick

Post: #35331
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35331/action/topic#35331
Time: 26-Feb-2004 12:18 PM

Mine are 16:9. I wouldn't call them true anamorphic because I believe that is a special process that only the major studios can do. Also, I don't think you gain a lot of vertical resolution. You do end up with black bars that look much better than the LD ones because they are pure black and there is no analog noise in them. This method would also work for VHS. I would not use this method on pan&scan sources though. Just use widescreen.

Here is what I did and anyone can do if they have an encoder capable of 16:9 support:

1. Captured the video at 720x480 (Mine are NTSC). If you have PAL, you would capture at 720x576.
2. Took video after editing and loaded into TMPNGEnc Plus encoder and chose 16:9 for the aspect ratio of the output video. I left the source video at 4:3 525 Line (NTSC). Others I know used 4:3 525 Line (704x480 NTSC). I don't think there is much difference between the two because the image is going to be converted.
3. Also in TMPNGEnc, I chose Full Screen (Keep Aspect Ratio) for video arrange method. This keeps the aspect ratio of the video without distorting it.
4. I went to the clip frame filter in TMPNGEnc and clipped all of the black bars off of the top and bottom.

By doing those steps, I achieve an image that is 16:9 and retains the 2.35:1 aspect ratio of the movie when played on a 16:9 TV. I've tested my DVD-R on a 16:9 TV and the results were that the image was displayed correctly just like on my 4:3 TV. On the 16:9 TV there were no black bars on the sides (only the top and bottom).

The image is correctly displayed on a 4:3 TV because there is a flag set by the encoder that the player follows depending on how it is set up. If you have a 4:3 TV, make sure your DVD Player is setup to play 4:3. If you have a 16:9 TV, make sure the player is set to 16:9. So basically, the DVD Player will convert the image according to how it is set up so that it will display the image correctly. However, you will also need to have a video that is output for 16:9 to play it correctly on a 16:9 TV. If you don't, the image will not fill the sides without using the zoom function or stretching the image.

I could post some screenshots if I have a space. I also need to figure out how to do it again. I've tried to take snapshots in Windows Media Player, but they don't come out right in Paint. There's a way to do it. I just have to read up on it.

I do encourage people who have the equipment to try and make their own DVD's instead of purchasing bootlegs. It is a pain to do at first, but the results are satisfying when it all comes together. Mine have the movies spread across two discs each. However, I plan to go back and make single disc versions when I can get the audio compressed with a lossless codec like AC-3. I'm also looking at the possibility of buying a dual layered DVD Writer when they come out and prove theirselves. There is talk of those writers coming out, but no one knows exactly when.

I was wondering if we could have another section of the forum to post all of this technical information. I would also encourage everyone to check out www.dvdrhelp.com for technical questions that require lengthy answers. That way, we aren't using up too much of Jay's bandwidth here.

Patrick

Post: #35224
Topic: Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35224/action/topic#35224
Time: 25-Feb-2004 5:59 PM

Can you tell if they are 16:9 and if there are any sound sync issues on ESB?

Patrick

Post: #35227
Topic: Creating the OT NEED HELP
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/35227/action/topic#35227
Time: 25-Feb-2004 12:04 PM

I use DVD-Lab for menus. Check out www.DVDRHelp.com They have plenty of reviews for software that does what you are looking for. There is also a 25 page thread that talks about the process of transferring the Star Wars LD's to DVD.

Patrick

Post: #34588
Topic: Read these two articles please...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/34588/action/topic#34588
Time: 22-Feb-2004 5:48 PM

I don't like Vader's new line because it doesn't sound like James Earl Jones. I also don't like the whole scene of him going out to his Star Destroyer because it destroys the flow of the action. Compare both versions side by side and you'll see what I mean.

Luke's scream is also terrible because it is the same scream the Emporer let out when Vader tossed him down the Death Star chasm. That does not make Empire better.

Patrick

Post: #34011
Topic: Okay, what did we LIKE about the Special Editions?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/34011/action/topic#34011
Time: 17-Feb-2004 3:14 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
Quote
Originally posted by: Bossk
Only problem is that Spielberg directed the IJ films so he would have to make the change, not Lucas. And, at least Spielberg would include both versions when releasing it to DVD.

Yes but the Indiana Jones DVDs don't contain the original versions. Only the ones with the 14 changes. The changes don't add anything they delete things you were never meant to see. All Lucasfilm DVDs have had surprises. With The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones it was new scenes. Indiana Jones it was eliminating crew equitment and glass. American Grafeti digitally enhanced sky. Therefore I am sure he will add a little something for the 2004 DVDs.

There is one funny thing I noticed. They removed the glass reflection when Indy was facing the cobra, but they forgot to remove it when Marion faces it. I thought that was pretty funny.

Patrick

Post: #34009
Topic: Okay, what did we LIKE about the Special Editions?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/34009/action/topic#34009
Time: 17-Feb-2004 3:12 PM

I have found one scene that I like better in the SE than in the Original ANH. Has anyone noticed the cardboard cutout or cardboard cutout looking people that you can see in the Widescreen version just after Luke, Han, and Chewie enter the room during the Awards ceremony? They look terrible. I compared it with my SE VHS and saw that they did fix that scene in the SE. It's pretty funny if you see it. Again, you need access to the Widescreen version.

Patrick

Post: #33383
Topic: SE Trilogy on DVD coming this Fall
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33383/action/topic#33383
Time: 13-Feb-2004 1:15 PM

Sorry. IVTC stands for Inverse Telecine. When film is transferred to video it is Telecined which is a process where duplicate frames are added. Film is 24 frames per second and NTSC TV is 29.97 frames per second. Frames have to be added to the film for them to play smoothly on an NTSC TV. IVTC takes those duplicate frames out and changes the framerate back to that of film. The advantage of this is that the picture will look good on both a TV and PC monitor.

Okay. IVTC has a couple of other advantages. It is easier to resize a file that has been IVTC'ed. This is especially important if you are converting a 4:3 source to 16:9. If you don't do an IVTC, you'll probably end up with a messy video with combing artifacts. The other big advantage is that you can allocate more bitrate to your video quality. Bitrate is applied per second instead of per frame. So, you can have more bitrate if you have 23.97 fps instead of 29.97. I say 23.97 because that is what it really is. Some just round the number up to 24 fps.

I hope this makes sense. It get more complicated if you are talking about mixed sources that have Telecined and Interlaced parts. IVTC should only be performed on Telecined sources and not Interlaced sources. That is why I didn't do IVTC on the Star Wars extras DVD I made. I also didn't resize it to 16:9 because the interviews themselves were full frame, so I didn't have any black bars to crop.

Sorry to get off on a tagent, but I hope this basic explanation helps.

Patrick

Post: #33348
Topic: SE Trilogy on DVD coming this Fall
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33348/action/topic#33348
Time: 13-Feb-2004 9:26 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: Bossk
Quote
Originally posted by: Patrick R.
I may even do the unthinkable. Buy the DVD's second hand so Lucas doesn't directly get my money and take all of the SE scenes out and reinsert the original scenes from the LD set. I'll have to try to match the audio and color as best as possible. The sound won't be too difficult if they include a 2.0 track. I'm sure someone is going to try this if I don't. I know they won't be perfect, but they can be made to be pretty close.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just burn your LDs to DVD directly instead of taking all these extra middle steps?

It would and I have already done it. However, I was thinking about a couple of things. The first would be that most of the film would be digital and be cleaned up. The other would be that it would be progressive and that I wouldn't need to do an IVTC on it.

In truthfulness, I seriously doubt I follow through with it as it is a lot of trouble. I will probably redo mine from my LD's when the dual layered DVD Burners come out and prove themselves. They are supposed to come out later this year, but they will be expensive and it's going to take time for the media for them to be common.

Patrick

Post: #33261
Topic: Buy or not to buy. That is the question.
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33261/action/topic#33261
Time: 12-Feb-2004 6:57 PM

I won't buy them unless I buy them second hand for the purpose of making my own DVD's by stripping out the SE scenes and reinserting the Original Version scenes from my LD's. That would take a lot of work though and you could tell where the old scenes were reinserted.

Patrick

Post: #33260
Topic: Make Original Trilogy DVDs available through originaltrilogy.com
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33260/action/topic#33260
Time: 12-Feb-2004 5:42 PM

Can anyone provide a list of equipment they would recommend. I'll throw in what I used to make my DVD's.

My PC is an AMD 1900 XP (1.6Ghz) with 512 Megs of SD2700 DDR RAM. I have two 80 Gb hard drives and one 20 Gb one. I also have a Canopus ADVC-100 DV bridge which was about $270.00. You can actually achieve the same results with the Canopus ADVC-50 or ADVC-1394. Those two are PC cards that you install. The 1394 has its own Firewire, but the other 50 and 100 require a Firewire card or some other device with a Firewire connection. I only went for the more expensive 100 because it can do Analog to Digital and back. I thought that would come in handy if I needed to make a tape for someone who doesn't own a DVD Player.

My LD Player is the Pioneer CLD-D703 which I think was one of the best non Elite Pioneer players. The 704 was better, but the only difference was that it had an AC-3 output connector. The 703 can easily be modified for that, but I didn't bother since the Definitive Collection LD's are not AC-3.

The software I used was WinDV (capture), Virtual Dub(editor), TMPNGEnc Plus (encoder), and DVD-Lab (author).

Sorry if this is off topic. I feel this is legal because I'm suggesting what I used to make my own DVD's so others can have an idea of what they need to buy in order to back up their VHS or LD copies. Others may have different preferences as to equipment and software they feel is better. I'm curious as to what others used to do their's because I'm always looking for ways to improve.

Patrick

Post: #33257
Topic: SE Trilogy on DVD coming this Fall
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33257/action/topic#33257
Time: 12-Feb-2004 5:22 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
I am not against the original versions being released I just doubt it will happen. If it does it will be Lucases own descign and no fan petition is going to change that as Bill Hunt said it. Plus other then Han and Greedo I prefered the Special Edition. The new effects made the whole universe come alive much better. According to the Digital bits the 2004 DVDs will be different then the 1997 versions. It has not been officially announced but then again The Phantom Menage, Attack of the Clones, The Indiana Jones trilogy DVDs all included slight changes to the films that were not in the original official announcement or on the pakageing. All I really want is fixed lightsabers and Han and Greedo scene restoration. These will probably the versions that should have come out in 1997. I recommend you read Bill Hunts comments they are very informative on both this release and releases to come. Including the future Ultimate Editions which According to Hunt will be out in 2007 for the HD-DVD format.

I may even do the unthinkable. Buy the DVD's second hand so Lucas doesn't directly get my money and take all of the SE scenes out and reinsert the original scenes from the LD set. I'll have to try to match the audio and color as best as possible. The sound won't be too difficult if they include a 2.0 track. I'm sure someone is going to try this if I don't. I know they won't be perfect, but they can be made to be pretty close.

I do have to admit though that I have a major inner conflict. I'm very angry about the whole situation. Part of me just says to say the hell with it and not even worry. Then there is that part that won't let go. There is no part of me that says I will run out and buy the SE only versions unless it is to attempt what I mentioned above.

I'll tell you more on the hell with it part. I could easily be patient to see what happens in 2007. The reason why is because I had to watch the films over and over when I made my own DVD's from the LD set to make corrections and such. Also, I have seen the films over and over and over over the years before that time. They are really beginning to get boring in a way. To tell you the truth, I didn't get that excited when Indiana Jones came to DVD. I bought them day one and it took me nearly two months to watch all three films. I had to watch Temple of Doom in two sittings because I fell asleep half way through.

Even if he releases both versions, the timing is bad. Life is getting more and more complicated for me. If he had released them 3 or 4 years ago (I know he couldn't), I would have been much more excited.

There is also that last alternative of waiting until the 30th anniversary Jimbo mentioned. By then, he'll either include the Originals, or I won't care by then or both. Again, I don't plan on buying the DVD's unless it is to do what I've mentioned. I'm going to think it over and if it isn't feasable, I won't buy them at all. Actually the waiting until the 30th to see what happens seems to be the best option.

Does anyone else feel similar on any of these points?

Patrick