Moth3r

For those still playing along:

6(a). D925 - s-video - LG DVD Recorder (after AviSynth processing)

<-- right-click/view for full size

Now with correct chroma decoding, and AviSynth processing (multi-cap average & levels tweak). For comparison with 4(b).

Detailed analysis to follow when I have time.

Wookiepedia confirms that the CD is a bootleg.

Johnboy, are you sure this was never officially released on CD?

I've just spotted eBay item number 370526337047: a CD containing 14 tracks (plus two bonus). It claims to be a "limited import CD", and the auction mentions it's a "manufactured disc" so it doesn't appear to be a bootleg - although the cover doesn't look very professional (to me).

Video Collector said:

Moth3r said:

AnimeIVTC(mode=2) removed most of the blending, but there are still occasional blends left behind.

Quick 5-minute job at improvement:

MPEG2Source("Composite_20110704_2251.d2v")
animeivtc(mode=2)
levels(17,1,190,0,255,false)
Crop(8, 4, -16, -10)
spline16resize(720,576)

Results: http://www.sendspace.com/file/n4xap7

 

Yeah, Moth3r, the thing is, NOONE has been able to crack that PAL blending completely. There seems to be no predictable rhythm to it.

Would you be willing to work with my man Pittrek to eliminate as much as possible of it from the PAL captures?

Certainly. Provide the samples, and I'll try out some scripts to find out what works the best.

Video processor/comb filter that's supposedly good for improving the output from a laserdisc player.

Five left, only 3 hours left to go. $19.99 sounds like a good price.

LINK

Laserdisc contains analogue video, so no compression.

JPG images, on the other hand, are compressed... ;-)

msycamore said:

From the 2004 DVD audio commentary Ben Burtt says:

...the first mix done was a two-channel stereo Dolby mix wich hadn't been done before, it was a new process. That mix was done first because we were actually making prints and testing them out, and getting theaters to tune up their equipments required that mix was done first. After that was done, then a six-track stereo mix was done for the 70mm release of the film and of course going back and mixing the film a second time, one make changes, you take things a little further you've learned from the first mix of the movie and you now go and make all your changes in the next mix wich was the six-track...

I think the above quote along with the minor additions and differences in the six-track mix which also appears in the mono mix confirms that the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix was done first, but the 70mm six-track which was derived from the same source was first out the door... It makes no sense to remove certain sound effects in the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix then add them again for the mono if it was the second mix.

I think Burtt is referring to the different decisions made when mixing the "stems" together to create the final mix, rather than adding or removing sound effects.

I still believe what I said here, which is that the Dolby Stereo and 70mm 6-track mixes are identical in terms of content, the only difference being how the stems were combined to make the final mix.

The mono mix was a complete new mix created from scratch, and does have additional content. Some of these additions were also carried over to the '93 mix.

Harmy said:

That's interesting, I've never seen the one you linked to. Moth3r?

Russ is the expert on UK VHS releases. The tape in that eBay link is the second ever widescreen release (from 1994 - the first was in 1992) and is digitally remastered but not THX-certified.

It's either that one or the '92 release (or maybe both) that have some dodgy PAL conversion going on, so it runs at the correct speed without any PAL speedup (but with field-blended frames and so on).

The first two shots don't look very good at all, which disc was it that you captured? Also, why did you resize them to 1024 x 600?

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Ripplin said:

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Zion and Adywan's ROTS Theatrical Reconstructions

Whoa, what? Never heard of that. Where is that?

I'm talking about these ones shown here. That thread is the only place I see them mentioned. I've never actually seen them but, if I recall correctly, the thread hints that they're from the telecine with personally made end credits and opening crawls.

EDIT: Darth Mallwalker describes the DVDs more in depth in this post. I was right; both of these are mostly using the aAF telecine. More info would be handy. I believe these were made before the official DVD since they had to recreate the end credits rather than just splice it from the DVD.

The aAF release is mentioned in the first post - it was believed to be a rip from a digital projection source, not a telecine. But you are correct that the DVDs from Zion and Adywan were sourced from this.

toho-scope said:

opening credits,crawl of ROTJ with audience reaction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFNw65465h0&feature=feedrec_grec_index

Makes me glad I live in the UK - our cinema-going audiences are much more reserved. We only do pantos around Christmastime.

Definite +1 on the 0:26:34 shot - that was one of the shots that stood out for me when I watched this.

I didn't really notice any blue walls or left-over SE stuff, although now that I come to think of it the Leia hologram did look different but I thought it was just down to being in HD.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are your Greedo subs slightly different to those in msycamore's script? It would be good use his subs in your version as they are closest to the original, but yours did seem pretty close.

Interesting - underneath all that noise there does seem to be a little more detail (for example, Luke actually has a face).

I wouldn't trust screenshots from VLC, or any other media player for that matter - how can you be sure the guy hasn't fiddled with the hue and saturation controls before grabbing the screenshots?

We had similar confusion a few years back with someone posting screenshots taken from PowerDVD with some "vivid" setting enabled, that blew out all the whites.

I'd forgotten about sending that to JD years ago (I suddenly recognised the VHS "crapping out" bit near the start of the YouTube video).

I've also noticed Obi-Wan's sabre has a greenish tint on the US SWE LD.

There was a much more colourful interview with McGregor on the Graham Norton show last Friday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012b52b/The_Graham_Norton_Show_Series_9_Episode_12/

For those outside the UK, look for The.Graham.Norton.Show.S09E12.720p.HDTV.x264-FTP or The.Graham.Norton.Show.S09E12.HDTV.XviD-FTP (available on a.b.multimedia).

AnimeIVTC(mode=2) removed most of the blending, but there are still occasional blends left behind.

Quick 5-minute job at improvement:

MPEG2Source("Composite_20110704_2251.d2v")
animeivtc(mode=2)
levels(17,1,190,0,255,false)
Crop(8, 4, -16, -10)
spline16resize(720,576)

Results: http://www.sendspace.com/file/n4xap7

retartedted said:

There is some terrible frame blending going on with the horrible NTSC-> PAL conversion.  Although the audio tracks are the best out there for english.  And it is one of the only versions of The Great Heap on tape.

Can you post a short sample? The blending may be partially repairable with AnimeIVTC or Srestore.

But the Japanese video may still end up looking better.

hairy_hen said:

{a lot of sensible stuff about mono sound}

Thanks h_h, that's exactly what I was thinking but I wasn't sure of the facts. While searching at various home cinema forums I found this:

which suggests that although mono should come from the centre speaker, some people prefer to use the front left & right. But I also saw this thread where someone who describes himself as an acoustical engineer says that this can cause unwanted effects.

Cleaned the junk out of post 745. Try now.

More examples of DVNR smear in the PAL LDs can be found here.

An example of extremely bad DVNR in Empire (French THX LD):

and also this (see the trails to the right of the AT-AT foot): 

yet this:

does not have the same DVNR problems that the GOUT version has.

TV's Frink said:

So I take it the mono mix will be on the Blu? :p

*raps Frink on the head*

Think, Frink, think!

The Blu-ray won't even have the original film on it, so  the original mono mix can't be included. (If it did, the sound would go very badly out of sync during the added Jabba scene...)

The following frames are from my cap of the French THX LD; the DVNR is not as obvious as the US Definitive Collection discs or the 2006 DVD but you can see the detail loss during movement. (Although probably made worse by my processing and MPEG-2 compression).

I seem to remember that Empire was even more noticable, I'll check that one next.

What do these scenes look like on the German Silver Screen discs?

zombie84 said:

Mono is sent to the centre channel because, being only one channel, it would be weird if it sent it to the left, or to the right. But in a theatrical setting, you aren't hearing it from one speaker at the front of the house. It is playing through many speakers so as to encompass the full room with front-facing sound. This is why, in a home theatre setting, it is appropriate to send it to all your forward-facing speakers, but namely the left and right which are accoustically positioned to fill your listening space.

I don't believe this is the case. A 1.0 mono soundtrack should play solely through the centre channel (on a film - mono music may be different). The centre channel is normally output by the centre speaker - unless your system doesn't have one, in which case a "phantom centre" is created by outputting the sound through both front left and right speakers.

I suppose it depends on room size to a degree. But again, in any sort of concert or theatre environment, there is no single centre speaker that provides audio for the entire room. Centre-default plays to the reality of one-channel audio, in that it is the most appropriate position if one speaker represents one channel, but it betrays the ideal listening experience. Your left and right speakers will be better manufactured as well, even if your centre channel is of high quality--the left and right are always the best speakers in the set-up, and the ones designed for the widest and furthest sound dispersal.

This is incorrect as well. The centre speaker is the most important speaker in a 5.1 set-up - it accounts for 50% of the soundtrack, as well as nearly all dialogue. It would not make sense to have the centre lesser specified than the front L & R speakers.