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Moth3r

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Join date
26-Oct-2004
Last activity
16-Jul-2017
Posts
4,892

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Post
#79862
Topic
Help Wanted: The "blast it, wedge" line needed...
Time
Happy?

Been reading up the soundtrack versions and it's pretty complex!

Is this correct:

1. Original Theatrical 70mm 6-track mix
2. Original Theatrical 35mm Dolby Stereo - was also used for the early home video releases, VHS and laserdisc, but I think the VHS versions were a plain stereo "mono compatible" version and not matrixed stereo (even through Dolby Surround is supposed to be mono compatible anyway!).
3. Original monoaural mix - I assume this was used when the movies were shown on TV, which is where my recording originally came from
4. 1985 digitally remastered mix - used in subsequent home video releases, again the VHS versions were plain stereo.
5. 1993 THX-certified digitally remastered mix

I'd love to see a definitive list of differences between all of these!
Post
#79738
Topic
***The "SPIDER" Trilogy DVD Info and Feedback Thread***
Time
Although it's bad form to judge the quality of a rip from just a few jpegs, it does look like there are some techincal issues with Spider's set.
"spider2.JPG" in Hal's second post shows ghosting in the blue lightsabre, probably a result of temporal noise reduction. Also the horizontal lines in the red are typical of the chroma upsampling error, which could incidate the video is flagged as interlaced when it would be better as progressive. Also what's going on in spider1.JPG, have the fields been blended?

Post
#79366
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
I think you are misunderstanding me, or we're misunderstanding each other.

When I say "progressive" (aka 576p) I mean all 576 lines that make up the full frame are together. Modern DVD players with component video connections can output 576p to a compatible display device.

A laserdisc player outputs 576i (interlaced), 2 fields with 288 lines each, and that's what my capture card samples. The video is stored that way on the disc, because it is an analogue video signal (although you could say that the original film print is progressive). When the capture is loaded in AVISynth, the 2 fields are automatically combined to retrieve the full frame - it doesn't throw away half the resolution! My mistake was thinking that I needed to do something else to join the two fields together before processing.

BTW there are some early (too dark) screenshots here:
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1483
Post
#79256
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
Progress:

I've had to take the sharpness down a notch because the current setting was producing unwanted noise, noticeable in some scenes.

Also ditched the Telecide() function, as it wasn't 100% sucessful; don't know why I didn't do this before but for a PAL movie a simple DoubleWeave SelectEven does the same job.

Got the VCR set up for capture now, and I'll see if I can get that screen wipe spliced into the laserdisc capture. It only lasts for less than a second, so it might not look too bad.
Post
#79044
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
Yes, unfortunately you're right, I've just checked the end of side one and that wipe is missing. I hadn't realised that before.

Anyway what to do about it? I'll have to insert those frames captured from another source, I'll try my VHS tape to see if the quality difference sticks out - I suspect it will. Maybe I'll have to get them from one of the NTSC captures and resize it to PAL res.

The French soundtrack is also going to end up with a gap at that point, fixing that is also going to be messy.
Post
#78676
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
I've replaced the screenshot above with a brighter version; I believe I've got brightness and contrast set correctly now (it's a dark shot anyway, that scene). Still unsure about colour saturation, it's set to "auto" ATM, I'll take a look at how some other scenes look. I also applied some noise filtering, but I forgot to correct the AR for the pic so it's at it's native resolution which is slightly too tall.
Post
#78575
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
Originally posted by: oojason
Nice project, um... Mother Yeah I'm a fan of Alien as well as Star Wars.

Originally posted by: oojason
As a fellow UK'er/PAL'er I am intrigued - and a nice example of the difference between PAL & NTSC in that pic of the MF cockpit.

I take it you are creating a Letterbox version?
No, actually, it will be a 16:9 anamorphic version (although of course there will still be black bars top and bottom, just not as large).

Post
#78558
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
Why PAL?

If you live in an NTSC country, you will not gain any benefit from a PAL transfer - unless you have a truly PAL-capable player and TV (i.e. not just a player that does on-the-fly conversion). If however you live in Europe or Australia, then my project may be of interest to you.
  • Higher Resolution
    PAL images use 576 visible lines of resolution compared to only 480 for the NTSC system, that's a 20% increase in picture definition. Some of the extra lines are of course in the black letterbox bars, but the PAL laserdisc contains approx. 50 more lines of picture information than the NTSC version. Not as marked as comparing a letterboxed transfer to an anamorphic version (increase of 33%), but still siginificant.

    The difference can be seen in close-ups of areas containing fine horizontal detail. For example, compare the detail in the following two shots, one from my capture of the French PAL release, the other from the US NTSC definitive collection (pic stolen from Zion's website).
    (This is just a preliminary example, my pic is from a raw cap and clearly needs brightening up, and maybe some colour enhancemnt - I will edit this post to provide a better example in the future)
    http://img63.exs.cx/img63/5885/ntsc_ar.png
    http://img35.exs.cx/img35/3190/untitled131.png

    Look at the control panel in the background, in particular the diagonal line of lights to the top right. In the PAL version, you can clearly see each individual light. In the NTSC shot, these all combine into one. Of course this could be because of the filters that were applied afterwards, so I'd be interested to get a raw unfiltered shot to compare against. (Also interesting to note the framing of the image; the PAL version has more of the image at the sides but is missing some off the top.)

  • No 3:2 pulldown
    A movie shot to film has a framerate of 24 frames per second. Some adjustments are required to make this compatible with the NTSC television refresh rate of 59.94Hz. Each two frames are shown over 5 consecutive screen refreshes (3 use the first frame and 2 use the second - this is known as 3:2 pulldown). Frame 1 appears on screen for 0.050s and frame 2 for 0.033s and so on, this inconsistency results in a "motion judder" for fast moving objects or camera pans.

    Most people who live in an NTSC country are used to this judder and do not notice it, however for those of us in PAL countries who are used to seeing smooth motion the effect can be unbearable.

    One of the worst scenes is the "rebel fleet amassing" in ROTJ.
Disadvantages of PAL
  • Flicker
    The lower refresh rate of a standard PAL CRT TV may be noticeable as flicker, especially on larger screen sizes and white backgrounds. Most people who live in PAL countries are used to this flicker and don't notice it, but for NTSC people used to higher refresh rates the effect may be unbearable.

  • Speedup
    Although PAL does not suffer from motion judder, because every frame appears for 0.04s, this means that the movie plays back 4% faster at 25fps instead of 24fps. Again, if you are used to the regular speed you may notice an increase in audio pitch caused by this speedup. NOTE: It has since been noted that this pitch increase is not present in the PAL soundtrack used. The audio on the UK VHS release has been sped up using time compression, a method which preserves the original pitch.

  • Higher bitrate required
    Since PAL has a higher resolution, it therefore follows that you need to use a higher datarate to get the same encode quality as the NTSC counterpart. Use of multiple passes and a variable bitrate will help to make optimal use of the bytes available, but since space on a single layer DVDR is limited there will be no extras or animated menus on these discs.
Post
#78557
Topic
.: Moth3r's PAL DVD project :.
Time
Source Material
Video from the French 1995 THX PAL Laserdiscs.
Dolby Surround soundtrack from the UK 1995 THX PAL VHS tapes.

Hardware
Pioneer CLD-D925 Laserdisc player
Toshiba VT-728B VCR
Leadtek WinFast VC100 XP video capture card
PC: Athlon XP 2700, 1GB RAM

Software
Capturing:
btwincap drivers
VirtualVCR
Huffyuv codec

Post-processing:
VirtualDubMod
AVISynth

Encoding:
CCE 2.70 (video)
Sonic Foundry Acid Pro with AC-3 plug-in (audio)

DVD Authoring:
DVDAuthorGUI
Post
#78514
Topic
Help Wanted: Would like a screenshot from someone please
Time

For comparison with my PAL capture, can one of you NTSC guys post a frame from the ESB scene where the Millenium Falcon is flying out of the asteroid slug. The one I’m after is the same one that Zion has on his website here, but it would be a fairer comparison if the frame was from the raw capture before filtering. Also lossless PNG (or zipped BMP) would be preferable, but high quality JPG will be OK.
Thanks guys.

Post
#78354
Topic
Need technical help
Time
The video on a DVD is stored in MPEG-2 format; ideally the video should have been filtered to remove noise before encoding.

You will have to decode the MPEG-2, find a filter that will filter out the stuff that bugs you, and then re-encode back to MPEG-2 before authoring a new DVD. Quite a lot of work there and you will lose a bit of quality in the re-encoding.

A good place to start is to download VirtualDubMod, this can read the MPEG-2 VOB files ripped from a DVD and has a selection of video filters built in.

For more detailed advice the two main sites to read are videohelp.com and doom9.org.