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Mielr

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15-Jun-2006
Last activity
22-Jul-2018
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3068

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Post
#1227539
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

DrDre said:

Shopping Maul said:

With regards to Rey, whatever fanboy misgivings I may personally have about the writing, I do think its great that Kathleen K. and co. have given young girls their own Luke Skywalker to look up to and dress up as.

I consider the statement, that young girls cannot relate to or identify with Luke Skywalker, because he’s male to be inherently sexist. The character of Luke Skywalker is an avatar for the desires and hopes of both men and women. As such, it shouldn’t matter, if the character is portrayed by a man or a woman. Lucas wasn’t trying to cater to a specific gender group when he created the character. Consequently, Luke could have been a girl, and the story would have played out in exactly the same way. The only time the gender of a character matters, is when that character, has specific traits, that are gender specific, or if you want to specifically relate to a specific gender group. In all other cases casting should be driven by having equal representation of men and women, not by the sexist notion, that men can only relate to men, and women only relate to women.

I agree. That line of thinking IS inherently sexist!

I’m a female, and I never felt like the OT wasn’t made “for me.” It was made for everyone. I didn’t need to be catered to by seeing an abundance of females on the screen to “relate to.” I identified most closely with Luke—NOT Leia, in part because I had a giant crush on him! I had posters of Mark Hamill all over my bedroom walls…not Carrie Fisher. But I also identified with the fact that Luke didn’t know his parents & was kind of a fish-out-of-water, which is the way I’ve felt most of my life, also not having known my father very well since he died when I was very young.

What was great about the OT was that it wasn’t trying to second-guess the audience. I can’t remember who said it, it may have been Spielberg (or maybe even Lucas), but some famous director said something to the effect of “once you start second-guessing the audience, it’s over.” I think that’s what has happened with the SW franchise now. The films are no longer coming from an organic place, they’re being made by trying to cater to certain demographics and the anticipated $$$ in mind. Those are not the ingredients of creatively-successful films.

Post
#1226364
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

SilverWook said:

Of course, the Superman films would never just toss out some random power we’ve never seen before out of the blue. 😛

I never took the Superman films that seriously. They were just goofy fun. 😉

BTW, they just sold the “bad Superman” costume from Superman III in an auction. If you check out the ROTJ auction thread I made, you can see it in the catalog.

Post
#1226363
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Fair enough. But quality of filmmaking has nothing to do with wheather or not something should/could be added the lore; that’s all I’m saying.

I agree that new things can and should be added—it’s just the way they’re added that has to feel right; like they belong, like they’ve always been there/been possible. Even if you’ve never seen something happen before, it should feel like it could have happened all along. I remember the first time everyone saw Jabba in ROTJ and how great and disgusting he was—he didn’t feel out of place, he was just…Jabba.

I didn’t mean to turn this into another TLJ-bashing thread. Just wanted to discuss the current perception of the Star Wars films with the public in general. I think the brand has been cheapened, and it’s going to affect the future of the franchise.

Post
#1226360
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

DominicCobb said:

Mielr said:

SilverWook said:

I was speaking more towards the people who think the human body blows up like a water balloon in space.

In a movie universe where spaceships and explosions can be heard in a vacuum, and often defy physics, giant slugs live inside an apparently airless asteroid, people with magical powers formally fight with improbable laser swords when a blaster would end things quicker, (see Obi-Wan vs. Grevious) and overgrown teddy bears kicked Imperial ass, Leia in space was the one bridge too far? I give up.

It wasn’t the improbability of Leia flying—we all know that films rely on suspending disbelief, and it was required many times in the OT, but it was more the TONE that struck me as so odd. The tone of the flying Leia scene was totally off, totally un-Star Wars-like, and I think that’s why so many people were like “WTF”?!

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about this scene, but never this. I’m honestly curious why you think so, in my mind tonally it’s one of the scenes that feels the most like classic Star Wars.

There was nothing in the OT that was tonally like that scene at all. It made me wonder if RJ had ever seen any of the OT films.

The “use the Force, Luke” scene in ANH, Ben’s Firce ghost & Luke calling out to Leia with the Force in ESB, Luke making Threepio hover, there were plenty of unexpected Force-scenes that did things we hadn’t seen before. Why would TLJ be any different?

The only thing that I personally find to be “tonally different” is the fact that it’s a CG moment that would have been hard to pull off in the 80’s. That scene overall (Kylo/Leia moment included) actually really reminds me of the end of ESB.

That was a voice in Luke’s head, not someone floating in space, and it was done multiple times in the OT.

I was thinking more the tone of those scenes; the music, the sense of mystery, the unexpectednes of it all (first time watching at least), etc. Pluss, like I mentioned, Luke made Threepio hover in ROTJ. It’s simpler than flying Leia, but hardly a subtle moment.

And why does TLJ have to conform to what the OT films did. They never limited themselves to what the previous film(s) did, and neither did TLJ.

The OT were the establishing films that set all of the rules in a new, unfamiliar world. The world is no longer new and unfamiliar, hence the rules. If the rules aren’t followed, then they might as well just make them as Marvel films, which is the direction they’re headed anyway.

“Rules”? Why does the OT have to be the rules? The OT showed very little of the galaxy, and is set in a time with only a handful of Force-users. There was always the implication that the Force could do so much more, so why limit it to what little we saw in the OT?

And who makes the “rules” anyway? George Lucas? Seeing how many people dismiss the PT, there really isn’t much of an official baseline for what can or can’t happen in these movies.

Mielr said:

Everything you mentioned was was done multiple times in the OT. It was established from the first film that Luke could hear Ben’s voice. It was established from the 2nd film that Jedis could use the force lift objects off the ground and see force ghosts. If they’d wanted to make someone fly in outer space “in the 80s” they could have. They were able to show Christopher Reeve fly as Superman, I don’t see why they couldn’t have done something similar.

Just because something like that never happened within the plot of three movies doesn’t mean it can’t happen within the world.

Plus, what about Palpatine’s Force-lightning. That was a pretty jarring addition to the lore that didn’t resemble anything seem before. At least “flying” Leia is consistent with levitation, telekinesis, etc.

I’m not saying anyone has to like this scene, or the film, or any of the new SW stuff, I just don’t get the point of the argument that these movies aren’t conforming to what we saw in the OT. We saw so little in the OT, it only makes sense for the new films to introduce weird new things, just like the OT did when they were new.

They could have at least conformed enough to make them good films, like the OT were. It’s not about “weird new things” it’s about quality. With the prequels, George Lucas misinterpreted what made the OT great. It wasn’t FX, it was the story. Which is something sorely lacking in the recent films.

Post
#1226355
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

DominicCobb said:

Mielr said:

SilverWook said:

I was speaking more towards the people who think the human body blows up like a water balloon in space.

In a movie universe where spaceships and explosions can be heard in a vacuum, and often defy physics, giant slugs live inside an apparently airless asteroid, people with magical powers formally fight with improbable laser swords when a blaster would end things quicker, (see Obi-Wan vs. Grevious) and overgrown teddy bears kicked Imperial ass, Leia in space was the one bridge too far? I give up.

It wasn’t the improbability of Leia flying—we all know that films rely on suspending disbelief, and it was required many times in the OT, but it was more the TONE that struck me as so odd. The tone of the flying Leia scene was totally off, totally un-Star Wars-like, and I think that’s why so many people were like “WTF”?!

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about this scene, but never this. I’m honestly curious why you think so, in my mind tonally it’s one of the scenes that feels the most like classic Star Wars.

There was nothing in the OT that was tonally like that scene at all. It made me wonder if RJ had ever seen any of the OT films.

The “use the Force, Luke” scene in ANH, Ben’s Firce ghost & Luke calling out to Leia with the Force in ESB, Luke making Threepio hover, there were plenty of unexpected Force-scenes that did things we hadn’t seen before. Why would TLJ be any different?

The only thing that I personally find to be “tonally different” is the fact that it’s a CG moment that would have been hard to pull off in the 80’s. That scene overall (Kylo/Leia moment included) actually really reminds me of the end of ESB.

That was a voice in Luke’s head, not someone floating in space, and it was done multiple times in the OT.

I was thinking more the tone of those scenes; the music, the sense of mystery, the unexpectednes of it all (first time watching at least), etc. Pluss, like I mentioned, Luke made Threepio hover in ROTJ. It’s simpler than flying Leia, but hardly a subtle moment.

And why does TLJ have to conform to what the OT films did. They never limited themselves to what the previous film(s) did, and neither did TLJ.

The OT were the establishing films that set all of the rules in a new, unfamiliar world. The world is no longer new and unfamiliar, hence the rules. If the rules aren’t followed, then they might as well just make them as Marvel films, which is the direction they’re headed anyway.

Everything you mentioned was was done multiple times in the OT. It was established from the first film that Luke could hear Ben’s voice. It was established from the 2nd film that Jedis could use the force to lift objects off the ground and see force ghosts. If they’d wanted to make someone fly in outer space “in the 80s” they could have. They were able to show Christopher Reeve fly as Superman, I don’t see why they couldn’t have done something similar.

If there’s something in TLJ that reminds you of ESB, that’s great, but there was nothing in the film that even remotely reminded me of the OT. There was, however, quite a bit that reminded me of the PT, which is why I have no interest in seeing any more of them.

Post
#1226353
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Mielr said:

DominicCobb said:

Mielr said:

SilverWook said:

I was speaking more towards the people who think the human body blows up like a water balloon in space.

In a movie universe where spaceships and explosions can be heard in a vacuum, and often defy physics, giant slugs live inside an apparently airless asteroid, people with magical powers formally fight with improbable laser swords when a blaster would end things quicker, (see Obi-Wan vs. Grevious) and overgrown teddy bears kicked Imperial ass, Leia in space was the one bridge too far? I give up.

It wasn’t the improbability of Leia flying—we all know that films rely on suspending disbelief, and it was required many times in the OT, but it was more the TONE that struck me as so odd. The tone of the flying Leia scene was totally off, totally un-Star Wars-like, and I think that’s why so many people were like “WTF”?!

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about this scene, but never this. I’m honestly curious why you think so, in my mind tonally it’s one of the scenes that feels the most like classic Star Wars.

There was nothing in the OT that was tonally like that scene at all. It made me wonder if RJ had ever seen any of the OT films.

The “use the Force, Luke” scene in ANH, Ben’s Firce ghost & Luke calling out to Leia with the Force in ESB, Luke making Threepio hover, there were plenty of unexpected Force-scenes that did things we hadn’t seen before. Why would TLJ be any different?

The only thing that I personally find to be “tonally different” is the fact that it’s a CG moment that would have been hard to pull off in the 80’s. That scene overall (Kylo/Leia moment included) actually really reminds me of the end of ESB.

That was a voice in Luke’s head, not someone floating in space, and it was done multiple times in the OT.

Post
#1226347
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

DominicCobb said:

Mielr said:

SilverWook said:

I was speaking more towards the people who think the human body blows up like a water balloon in space.

In a movie universe where spaceships and explosions can be heard in a vacuum, and often defy physics, giant slugs live inside an apparently airless asteroid, people with magical powers formally fight with improbable laser swords when a blaster would end things quicker, (see Obi-Wan vs. Grevious) and overgrown teddy bears kicked Imperial ass, Leia in space was the one bridge too far? I give up.

It wasn’t the improbability of Leia flying—we all know that films rely on suspending disbelief, and it was required many times in the OT, but it was more the TONE that struck me as so odd. The tone of the flying Leia scene was totally off, totally un-Star Wars-like, and I think that’s why so many people were like “WTF”?!

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about this scene, but never this. I’m honestly curious why you think so, in my mind tonally it’s one of the scenes that feels the most like classic Star Wars.

There was nothing in the OT that was tonally like that scene at all. It made me wonder if RJ had ever seen any of the OT films.

It just reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/jP8dC8E6Emk?t=26s

Post
#1226346
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Anyone who thinks that Star Wars has only now in 2018 “jumped the shark” has selective memory loss, and is forgetting the years 1999 and 2002 when Jar Jar Binks and a flippy jumpy Yoda graced out eyeballs, respectively. There’s honestly nothing at all in the new Disney movies that fits the phrase, especially as they hew much closer to the more grounded and believable nature of the original films. Just because you don’t like a scene or a film doesn’t make it a “jump the shark” moment.

I don’t think you’re going back far enough. Death Star II, Luke and Leia being siblings, and the Ewoks could arguably be considered “jump the shark” moments.

Yeah, nothing in ROTJ was a “jts” moment for me.

Post
#1226323
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Also, since anecdotal evidence is important here I guess, everyone I’ve talked to has really enjoyed the new films (in fact I still haven’t met anyone who disliked TLJ, only people who know people who disliked TLJ). So, checkmate I guess? Is that how anecdotal-based debates work?

I called it anecdotal when I posted it. I never said I was right or that anyone else was wrong.

No, I realize you did, that wasn’t the issue. It just generally seems like a weird thing to bring up in a debate. Like, where do you go from there?

It’s an attempt to present feedback that doesn’t make it into most hardcore fan discussions because we’re in a bit of a bubble. The extreme negative feedback is part of that bubble; there are plenty of hardcore Star Wars fans who really don’t like TLJ, but I’ve never heard an overwhelmingly negative opinion from a casual fan. Worst I’ve heard is “meh”.

All I’m saying is that I’m getting lots of “meh”, which I heard during the prequel years so it’s not new, but “flying Leia was weird” is new. I’ve never had people tell me Star Wars is weird in a bad way.

That’s the thing—I mean if there was any time for SW to jump the shark it should have been in the prequel years. I think the films were awful and they haven’t aged very well, either, but there was still enough good will for the OT to sort of “forgive” the PT for what is was.

Now, I’m also in the position of not having seen SOLO and I don’t have any plans on doing so anytime soon. This is the first SW film that I won’t see theatrically, and I have no interest in seeing the next film theatrically either.

Post
#1226321
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

SilverWook said:

I was speaking more towards the people who think the human body blows up like a water balloon in space.

In a movie universe where spaceships and explosions can be heard in a vacuum, and often defy physics, giant slugs live inside an apparently airless asteroid, people with magical powers formally fight with improbable laser swords when a blaster would end things quicker, (see Obi-Wan vs. Grevious) and overgrown teddy bears kicked Imperial ass, Leia in space was the one bridge too far? I give up.

It wasn’t the improbability of Leia flying—we all know that films rely on suspending disbelief, and it was required many times in the OT, but it was more the TONE that struck me as so odd. The tone of the flying Leia scene was totally off, totally un-Star Wars-like, and I think that’s why so many people were like “WTF”?!

Besides, a bunch of overgrown teddy bears kicking Imperial ass is no more improbable than a bunch of under-equipped colonists beating the British Empire, no? 😉

Post
#1226264
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

SilverWook said:

There are no sharks in Star Wars! And nobody under 30 even knows the origin of that phrase anyway.

Also, only tv shows can jump the shark. Movies nuke the fridge.

Maybe they don’t know the origin, but they know what it means. 😉 (and, under 40 is more like it).

I didn’t know there was a separate term for films. That just reinforces my belief that it’s a good thing Spielberg didn’t direct ROTJ. 😄

Post
#1226263
Topic
Helping someone with a childhood Star Wars memory
Time

SilverWook said:

Arguably, a indie short that probably never was screened theatrically isn’t going to get the same level of scrutiny as a feature film made by 20th Century Fox. I hadn’t heard that ROTN couldn’t use a Vader mask. I guess Lucasfilm objected?

How Fox got away with this, I have no idea.
https://youtu.be/8CegGbscPn0
I thought it was sleazy of them to use Star Wars this way.

I never heard about ROTN not being able to use a Vader mask, I just made an assumption, because of the carnival scenes. I assumed that they were going for a Vader look, but it looked more like a welder’s mask.

LOL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFi7sGQK6A

They probably got away with the “A long time ago…” in the Mischief trailer because it was more parody, and probably not a copyright issue. Both films were FOX, so I guess they both could have gotten permission, if Lucasfilm was also ok with it?

Post
#1226107
Topic
Has Star Wars finally "jumped the shark"?
Time

I was watching a TV show the other day, and they were discussing the possibility of Hillary Clinton running for president a 3rd time. A comedian on the show said something like “we need another Hillary candidacy like we need another Star Wars sequel.” The audience groaned, but it made me think: in the minds of the general public, has Star Wars finally “jumped the shark”?

Post
#1226102
Topic
Helping someone with a childhood Star Wars memory
Time

SilverWook said:

I think I know what you’re talking about. It was one of those odd little film shorts HBO used to run in between movies in the 80’s.

I don’t remember this short, but I also remember when HBO used to show short films between features. Seems like now they just show ads. 😦 I remember one in particular that was like a ghost story—it was kind of interesting.

I’m surprised they were able to use a Vader mask, for copyright reasons. They couldn’t even use one in Revenge Of The Nerds. 😛

Post
#1221367
Topic
June 23rd auction of Return Of The Jedi props, etc.
Time

Some interesting stuff, including Han’s prop blaster. They also had the “bad Superman” costume from Superman III:

http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2018/hollywood-legends/Hollywood-Legends-Flipping-Book/

The auction results, if you’re curious:

http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2018/hollywood-legends/results.html

Han’s blaster sold for over half a million dollars! 8-O

Post
#1208702
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

oojason said:

Mielr said:

I’m not sure where to post this as I can’t seem to find any of the old “soundtrack” discussions, but I notice that the new RETURN OF THE JEDI CD release is the original 1983 version (YAY!!!) and I’m wondering if anyone has had the opportunity to compare the sound quality to the old Anthology set and the 2-disc sets?

https://smile.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Original-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B07CNBSQSW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526887764&sr=8-1&keywords=RETURN+OF+THE+JEDI+CD

There are a few soundtrack and audio discussions listed in the Index for this section of the site - in the ‘Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases’ Index, and in the ‘Star Wars Preservation’ Index too mate 👍

Nice one that it’s the original '83 version 😃
 

Thanks a bunch! I was a bit shocked when I saw that the CD actually contained “Lapti Nek” and “Ewok Celebration.” 8-O That’s the first time they’ve been released on CD since the SEs.