LeeThorogood

DGIndex using the VOBs directly and with Forced Film checked gives a total frame count of 174276 for Star Wars. This is in the information window of DGIndex.

If I then open the resulting d2v file in AviSynth/VirtualDub I get 174270 frames total.

Thanks for the help also Chewtobacca!

STAR_WARS LogFile said:

[General]
Total Number of PGCs in Titles=2
Total Number of PGCs in Menus=27
Total Number of VobIDs in Titles=6
Total Number of VobIDs in Menus=22
Total Number of Cells in Titles=52
Total Number of Cells in Menus=22
Demuxing Mode=by PGC
Demuxing Domain=Titles
Total Number of Frames=217822
Selected PGC=1
Number of Cells in Selected PGC=51
Selected VOBID=None
Number of Cells in Selected VOB=None
[Demux]
Number of Video Packs=3125913
Number of Audio Packs=259584
Number of Subs Packs=3290
Number of Nav Packs=14197
Number of Pad Packs=0
Number of Unkn Packs=0
[Audio Streams]
Audio_1=0x80
Audio_2=0x81
Audio_3=0x82
Audio_4=None
Audio_5=None
Audio_6=None
Audio_7=None
Audio_8=None
[Audio Delays]
Audio_1=0
Audio_2=0
Audio_3=0
[Subs Streams]
Subs_01=0x20
Subs_02=0x21
Subs_03=0x22
Subs_04=0x23
Subs_05=None
Subs_06=None
Subs_07=None
Subs_08=None
Subs_09=None
Subs_10=None
Subs_11=None
Subs_12=None
Subs_13=None
Subs_14=None
Subs_15=None
Subs_16=None
Subs_17=None
Subs_18=None
Subs_19=None
Subs_20=None
Subs_21=None
Subs_22=None
Subs_23=None
Subs_24=None
Subs_25=None
Subs_26=None
Subs_27=None
Subs_28=None
Subs_29=None
Subs_30=None
Subs_31=None
Subs_32=None

STAR_WARS CellTimes.txt said:

635
3435
8791
13451
16040
20430
27680
34760
41756
45320
49305
51916
57955
62115
65745
69686
74350
75835
79111
84535
88290
90565
92925
93160
98025
102010
109141
114705
118466
125970
128976
134405
137870
142065
148385
152036
157255
164206
169355
171956
174665
177881
180066
183647
192046
202117
206566
207811
210976
217807
217822

Darth Mallwalker said:

Using the VOBs directly would give you PGC_2 first (15 frames) followed by PGC_1 (main feature.) So I would have thought the total frame count would be higher by fifteen. Yet you say it's the same when you use the VOB method? That's very weird indeed.

Darth Mallwalker said:

Not sure you've missed anything, but emphatically I say No it's not normal, even for NTSC.
I'm glad you're asking these questions, and not simply accepting it, because it shouldn't be that way.
Hope I can help to figure out the anomally. So far I'm stumped...

Can you try turning on PGCDemux Logfile, and also "Include end time" in CellTimes.txt, then post both files here or somewhere.

Darth Mallwalker said:

This statement befuddles me because I've never seen frame counts listed whenever I run PGCDemux (except in the Logfile, but you had that turned off.)
Where in PGCDemux are you seeing the frame count?
Can you make a snapshot of PGCDemux, where "174262" is displayed on-screen? That might help to give me a sense of context.

Finally if I can be so bold to list what I believe are the correct answers for STAR WARS:
PGC_1 contains 174261 frames.
Both AviSynth and VirtualDub call the first frame 0, so the last frame will be called 174260.
(Other programs might start with 1, as Chewtobacca already mentioned.)

Skipping PGCDemux, and DGIndexing the VOB files directly ought to yield 174276 frames. That's 15 from PGC_2 + PGC_1's 174261.
Again VirtualDub and AviSynth both count from zero, so
last frame of PGC_2 is called 14
first frame of PGC_1 is called 15
last frame of PGC_1 is called 174275

Thanks Chewtobacca, I tried using the VOBs direct rather then creating the m2v file first and DGIndex reported the same frame count for both Star Wars and Empire so I am still scratching my head on this one.

I ran a little experiment with regards to the frame count mismatching and here is what I got

PgcDemux read the NTSC GOUT DVD of Star Wars as 174262 frames
DGIndex read the m2v file PgcDemux created as 174261 frames
VirtualDub via AviSynth read the d2v file DGIndex created as 174258 frames

PgcDemux read the NTSC GOUT DVD of The Empire Strikes Back as 179669 frames
DGIndex read the m2v file PgcDemux created as 179671 frames
VirtualDub via AviSynth read the d2v file DGIndex created as 179668 frames

PgcDemux read the PAL GOUT DVD of Return of the Jedi as 189451 frames
DGIndex read the m2v file PgcDemux created as 189451 frames
I have yet to open the d2v file DGIndex created using VirtualDub / AviSynth.

Is the small variation in frame count normal when working with NTSC material or have I missed something?

My settings for PgcDemux are:

Input IFO: VTS_03_0.IFO from NTSC GOUT DVD Rip
Mode - by PGC
Options - Demux video stream CHECKED
Demux audio streams CHECKED
Demux subpic streams CHECKED
Create CellTimes.txt CHECKED
Include end time UNCHECKED
Create Logfile UNCHECKED
Create a PGC VOB UNCHECKED
PGC Selection: Titles
PGC # 01 --> 02:01:00:22 SELECTED

In DGIndex the only setting I have changed from the default is:

Video -> Field Operation -> Forced Film CHECKED (For the two NTSC DVDs)

In VirtualDub the only settings I have changed from the default is:

Video -> Fast Recompress CHECKED
Video -> Compression -> Huffyuv

Moth3r said:
I got the chance to scan through your SW disc the other day.

While you've made some very interesting choices wrt the colour grading, personally I wouldn't choose to watch SW this way. My main issue is the brightness; it's almost as though you've attempted to match the photos taken of the screening exactly, even those that are obviously overexposed.

Also, I was grabbing some screenshots to put up on my Custom DVD comparison page, and DGIndex complained about detecting a bad field order transition. You mentioned that you used different settings for the binary sunset scene - how did you go about encoding the different elements? I'm wondering if you used some sort of MPEG2 editor to combine the shots, and that caused this. I don't know, however, if this would cause any real issue with playback.

Not sure if I said this before but if anyone wants to post these to somewhere other than the newsgroup that's fine by me. ;)

The Empire Strikes Back in Technicolor is basically finished however I'm currently on holiday in NYC for a week so I wont be able to upload until I get home. :)

SilverWook said:

Alas, no arms were removed from their sockets...)

Sorry Pittrek I have no plans to upload a torrent or to rapidshare etc, although if someone else with newsgroup access wants to up them elsewhere I have no objections. ;)

alt.binaries.starwars

I hope you enjoy it!

Just a quickie to say that the PAL DVD9 image has now finished uploading as well. :)

Update on Star Wars (ANH) The NTSC DVD9 image should have finished uploading by now. That's right I have done an NTSC version as well :D I hope to begin uploading the PAL DVD9 image in the next day or two. :)

I am currently rendering out the lossless AVIs for Empire Strikes Back, should be ready to start colour grading by the weekend :D

Once again my thanks go out to all those who took the time to watch the work print and give feedback. Based on what you've said I have decided not to make any changes, as the issues raised could only be effectively fixed with scene by scene correction which I as I have said before I am not doing. ;)

I will let you all know when I start uploading the final DVD to the newsgroup. :)

Chewtobacca thanks for the feedback. :)

ChainsawAsh many thanks for the advice. :)

None I used the scenes / shots found here: http://petergaultney.smugmug.com/Movies/historic/Star-Wars-at-The-Senator/13089279_nXePV#948662138_wuqj9 The problems you describe are a result of colour fluctuations in the GOUT source. :(

WOW Great Work Harmy! :D I have always preferred the '97SE version of Jabba in ANH to the 2004 version.

Rockin no offence taken ;)

CA, I used the following settings in Handbrake:

Sorry about the compression problems I did try to encode the MKV straight from my ProRes HQ master but unfortunately this was a no go and not wanting to spend too much time on it I decided to use handbrake to encode the MKV from the DL-DVD I had authored for previewing purposes. As for next time, there wont be a next time :p I only plan to release this in DVD format, the MKV was just a way of putting a work print out at 1/4 the size of a DL-DVD.

As far as the DL-DVD I authored up for previewing goes, I used the highest possible bit-rate my MPEG2 encoder supports 7.7mbps VBR with a max of 9mbps.

Sorry guys I have no plans to upload the work print to anywhere else. Speaking of the work print so far I have had no feedback, if I still haven't had any feedback by the close of play Saturday then that will be Star Wars finished and I will move onto Empire. ;)

Don't worry I am sure they will fix this for the blu-ray set by adding a shot of thousands of star destroyers all around Hoth like the Trade Federation ships in the opening of TPM *sigh*

The MKV is on its way up to the newsgroup. :)

I think this latest grade is the one! :D Not to worry I am still going to upload the work-print MKV, but unless there's a big problem that's present throughout that I have missed, I don't plan on rendering Star Wars again! ;) The reason I say this is that I authored up a DVD earlier and I have been testing it out on my 26" LCD TV and IMHO I don't think I could make this look any better then it does now! :D

I will probably start uploading the MKV tomorrow evening. :)

I am hoping to have the MKV work-print uploaded by the end of the week. I've never encoded an MKV before as I prefer to use M4V instead. This being the case I was wondering if anyone could recommend what settings I should use in Handbrake to encode the MKV?

Many Thanks

captainsolo said:

yay! THX! :)

IIRC you can only crop by whole numbers using Streamclip so you would need to crop by 37 and 38 rather then 37.5 and 37.5 ;) 720x405 sounds completely correct! :D

Not quite! I run it through Streamclip using the export to other formats option. For the frame size I choose "Other" the values you enter here depend on how much you need to crop off.

I start by working out how wide the frame should be. In the case of my '97SE LD captures there was 5 square pixels of analogue blanking on each side so you do the following:

768 (PAL resolution in square pixels rather then CCIR.601)
-5 (Left Hand Side)
-5 (Right Hand Side)
= 758 square pixels

So we have determined that the width of our frame will be 758 so to work out what the height should be we do:

758/16 = 47.375
47.375 x 9 = 426.375 (Round this down to 426)

So our final frame should be 426 square pixels heigh, to work out how much to crop off you do 576 (original height) - 426 = 150

So we need to crop of 150 pixels which is 75 off the top and 75 off the bottom. I enter the crop values in the crop section of the export window, choosing to crop the source from the drop down menu. I then enter the width and height values I have worked out and away you go.

I find trial and error using the preview button in the export window is the best way to work out how much cropping is needed on the left and right hand sides. You can also use the preview button to check the crop settings for the top/bottom edges, as the picture is not always perfectly central and so you might need to take more off the top then bottom and vice versa.

I apologise if this seems really complicated, I am the first to admit I am rubbish at explaining how to do things over the web! :(