Kellythatsit

The way I understood it in the movie was that no one knew where Luke had gone. Lor San Tekka is a kind of space archaeologist. Indiana Jones in the Star Wars galaxy if you will. Somewhere in his travels he’d procured this ancient map to the very first Jedi temple. When rumours emerged that Luke may have gone there, Leia contacted San Tekka to get the map fragment from him.

With regards to the full map, Kylo Ren says to Rey that the first order got it from the Empire’s data base but it is missing a fragment. My guess is that somewhere in history a Jedi or someone likeminded feared that the Empire would destroy the sacred site so infiltrated the Empire’s database and removed that section of the map so they couldn’t find it.

The resistance now have the fragment but are missing the larger map from which it was taken. Artoo however, is the missing part of the puzzle. Presumably, either when he had access to the Republic archives or when he was plugging into the Death Star’s database he was able to download the larger map and has been storing it since then.

I agree, there is a lot of speculation as to exactly how the key players got a hold of these different versions though. Maybe it will be one of those things we will be debating endlessly.

Looking forward to the forthcoming Raiders of the Lost Map to Ahctu : a Star Wars story.

stealthboy said:

Time to disown the kids. So sorry for your loss.

I know but the missus wants to keep them.

Priorities I say 😉

Mithrandir said:

Kellythatsit said:
I think you mean “I’ve been waiting for you Obi-Wan, we meet again at last.”

Similar but different enough. I wouldn’t consider it fan service though, maybe an echo or a soft reference to the earlier duel.

If everything, a strange echo. Who would greet his father that way?

That’s the point I think. Kylo Ren doesn’t see him as his father any more.

The whole kill the mentor thing was was quite a rehash of ANH’s moment, with the major flaw of a more dramatic scenario for a far less important moment (Jedi Anakin Skywalker, known as Darth Vader, responsible for the destruction of the Jedi Order and the implementation of a galaxy-wide tyranny meets his former friend and master Jedi General and hero of the Clone Wars Obi Wan Kenobi in a random fluorescent-lighted corridor in the Death Star vs. unknown Ben Solo kills his famous yet-muggle father based on an unexplained resentment due to the orders of an unexplained supreme leader in an expressionist bridge in the middle of an unexplained abysss which has a single stream of light that baths the character that is supposed to be good while the rest is in darkness. As much as a videogame scenario as mustafar, actually.

To be fair though you’d have to agree that when we first saw it, the initial duel between Vader and Obi-Wan had barely any of the weight you are loading it with now. In 1977 we didn’t know that Vader was Anakin. All we knew was from a short conversation earlier in the movie. Vader was once Obi-Wan’s pupil, he killed Luke’s father, he helped hunt down the Jedi. Obi-Wan was once a Jedi knight, he fought in the clone wars and he was friends with Luke’s father. That’s it. Vader’s motivations are still largely unknown, Ben’s history is largely unknown.

To say that the latter scene is simply a rehash is to completely misunderstand the scene entirely. Not only is it a pivotal moment for Kylo Ren’s character it also creates gravitas and a tragic depth that was not present after Kenobi’s death.

The death of the mentor character does seem to be a continuing device in each of the trilogies. Each of them though are significant, course changing moments. To simply highlight one as a rehash or some kind of fan service seems wilfully dismissive.

The PT plus the treatment of the OT put me off Star Wars in a big way. I stopped watching any Star Wars completely such was my frustration (yet still saw myself as a fan). Then my two sons found some of my old toys in the garage and they began asking questions.

I was trying to figure out how best to introduce them to the movies when someone gave me a copy of the first few seasons of Clone Wars. I was sceptical and it took me a while to actually sit down and watch an episode. When I did I actually enjoyed them. It was what I had wanted from the prequels but never got. As the series went on I found that I was beginning to love Star Wars again.

Because of that series I can now watch the PT without feeling frustrated at the missed opportunity. Because of harmy I’ve been able to show my boys the OUT.

Unfortunately, a friend of theirs recently showed them the 2004 DVD Special Edition.

They now prefer that version.

That friend has been banned from my house.

Haarspalter said:

Haarspalter said:

When Kylo Ren says to his father: [Han Solo. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time] some of you might argue that this quote is clumsy fan service, because Vader said that to Obi-Wan.

Did Vader say that?

I think you mean “I’ve been waiting for you Obi-Wan, we meet again at last.”

Similar but different enough. I wouldn’t consider it fan service though, maybe an echo or a soft reference to the earlier duel.

This is actually the first time I’ve associated those two lines as having some kind of relationship to be honest.

People talk as if Disney’s purchase of Lucasfilm is some kind of risk. That they have to keep a constant tab on things to make sure they’ll break even. It’s been demonstrated pretty resoundingly that a Star Wars movie is money in the bank. Even the worst of them made a squillion dollars.

Why would Disney do anything but let lucasfilm make movies the way they want to make them?

Do you really think any of the Disney execs are worried they’re not going to see their money back?

JawsTDS said:

Kellythatsit said:
I really can’t believe that people are defending the prequels as decent watchable movies on this thread.

It’s as if people have opinions that are different than yours. Woah!

I know! What’s that all about? Don’t people realise that I rule?

HP. Lovecraft said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say TFA reuses dialogue from the OT.

referring to the millennium Falcon as ‘‘that hunk of junk’’ for exempel.

Isn’t that called a running joke?

What I think people seem to have trouble getting their head around is that TFA and R1 are largely getting the Star Wars ball rolling again. After the bad taste of the prequels, Lucasfim figured that people needed to be reminded of what made Star Wars great. New stories with interesting characters we actually give a stuff about, and give a stuff about each other. It also needs to walk that fine line between making it feel like a Star Wars movie used to feel and blatant fan service. Sometimes they got it right sometimes they got it wrong. The largely positive reaction to the films however, suggests that it was more the former than the latter. Critics will still use this as ammunition and cite any reference to the OT as fan service. But I contend if it were all about fan service there are a lot of things Lucasfilm could have included to get the fans drooling in their seats.

I really think that people are going over the top with this Disney = corporation = bad bs. Yes they are about making money but to do that they have to make entertaining movies. Kathleen Kennedy has a massive say in how these movies are put together. You know, the producer of such poorly received movies as Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Schindler’s List, Jurassic Park… She is helming Lucasfilm and is a highly respected filmmaker in her own right. While she ultimately answers to the Disney executive, her thoughts, opinions, and recommendations are highly regarded. There’s no way someone like Kennedy would still be there if they weren’t.

I really can’t believe that people are defending the prequels as decent watchable movies on this thread. I’m even more incredulous that the same tend to then tear down tfa and r1 as poor movies.

It’s a strange thing this Star Wars fandom.

Regardless of how advanced cgi technology is, I think it would be a mistake to include leia as a significant character in 9 if it could only be done that way.

TV’s Frink said:

Don’t forget the part where Krennic lands too far away from everything. Now, it doesn’t have to bother you, but you still have to mention it, otherwise you’ve not done a proper review of Act One.

Haha … I was drinking coffee when I read this. Now it’s all over my ipad screen.

Excellent.

Didn’t mind Anakins but Yoda … Not too sure which is better original Ep 1 puppet or this rendering.

Great episode though. It had everything that the season has been lacking so far.

SPOILER

Even had a lump in my throat at the end when Ashoka turns and waves back at Yoda.

/SPOILER

My prequels start and end with the clone wars tv series. Don’t need anything else to know how we get to the OT (definitely not the awkward and ham fisted “turn” and purge we are lumbered with in Ep 3).

More or less the kind of anakin old Ben describes - great pilot, Jedi knight, good man and a loyal, close friend. Plus the series is entirely more interesting, the Jedi are actually a thing to behold and admire and introduces characters we care deeply about.

Alderaan said:

I think the dialogue in TFA was really on the nose. It’s hard to tell only seeing the film twice in theaters, not being able to watch at home, not having the script in front of me, but I recall little if any subtext to anything that was said. In that regard, the dialogue mimicked the prequels much more than the OT.

Harrison Ford was the exception. We know his history of throwing out the script and improving his character’s lines.

Are you joking?

The dialogue in this movie seems so natural and is delivered exceptionally. To compare it to the stilted gobbledegook of the prequels is to compare tree sap to honey.

I honestly can’t understand this comment.

Second viewing for me was way better than the first. First time I was kind of looking for all the flaws and just waiting for it to suck. Second time I could just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride for what it was. My ranking is below but I find it hard to give them a rating. Instead I’ve indicated whether imho it passes, fails or excels as a Star Wars movie.

Empire Strikes Back (excel)
Star Wars (excel)
The Force Awakens (excel)
Return of the Jedi (excel)
Revenge of the Sith (pass)
Phantom Menace (pass)
Attack of the Clones (fail)

I always swore that I would never show my kids the prequels. Once you’ve watched them they can’t be unwatched. But eventually I relented, I figured if they were going to see them it might as well be at an age when they can really appreciate them (as much as it’s possible to any way). Your son seems like he might be at that age to enjoy the “humour”.

A good order to watch the movies is 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. This keeps the saga framed in the OT and uses the prequels as flashbacks. It allows the OT to stay pure and unspoiled (mostly) while finishing on the high note of Jedi rather than the low point of Sith.

Then move on to The Force Awakens from there.