Kellythatsit

Vladius said:

Channel72 said:

I get the sense that a lot of the writing flaws in these Disney+ Star Wars shows ultimately originate from top-down mandates to expand a 1.5 hour movie pitch into an 8 episode streaming series. At least, that explains why shows like the Kenobi and Boba Fett show are filled with narrative dead-ends, weird decision making, and characters spontaneously changing their minds as needed. But somehow these same writing problems also plagued Mando Season 3 and the Acolyte, which as far as I know were never originally pitched as a movie. So I have no idea what’s happening. I can’t even blame Filoni anymore because non-Filoni shows exhibit Filoni-esque symptoms in the writing. All I know is that good writers seem to be in very short supply, or something about the creative process at Lucasfilm is fundamentally broken. Basically just let Tony Gilroy do everything from now on and we should be okay.

RedLetterMedia recently suggested that a show like the Acolyte - or any High Republic show centering on the Jedi - could be formatted as a Star Trek style episodic show about a team of Jedi, or maybe just a master/apprentice duo, who travel around the Galaxy dispensing peace and justice, with plots based around localized, “problem of the week” style stories and ethical dilemmas, just like old school Star Trek. I realize Star Wars isn’t Star Trek, but the premise of the High Republic could really fit nicely with an episodic style. When I first read about the premise of the High Republic book series, way before the Acolyte aired, one of my first thoughts was “this sounds a lot like Star Trek”. Arguably, the old KOTOR games are somewhat made in this mold as well. You could also do this Andor style, with multiple 2 or 3 episode arcs centering on different independent story lines.

That is a good idea but episodic stories like that are much less popular than serialized stuff now. It’s very close to the Jedi Apprentice series of books, which are about Qui Gon and Obi Wan having episodic Jedi adventures on different planets with different dilemmas. They’re kids’ books and I read them as a kid, but it could easily be done with an adult show, or just more adult books.

But I’d argue that the episodic nature of Mando S1 & S2 and to a lesser degree, Clone Wars and Andor are part of what makes them so successful.

Channel72 said:

Vladius said:

This entire site exists because of complaining and hating on the Lucas special editions and the prequels and trying to fix them. If you put up all the same stuff everyone here said like 10 or 15 years ago and added some clickbait headlines and thumbnails you people would call them Hateful Toxic YouTube Grifters.

You’re probably right.

The Prequel/Special-Edition debates of the late 90s through early 2010s were way more heated than most people seem to remember. But one major difference between those debates and debates about modern Star Wars was that with the Prequel debates there was no real political dimension. The debates really were almost entirely about quality, or how well the Prequels lived up to the potential dramatic greatness implied in the OT. Whereas nowadays, before we even get to discussions about the actual quality of a new Star Wars movie/show, we often have to first wade through layers of political discourse, usually with all nuance thrown out the window. Also, anything with a political dimension invariably induces people to take sides based on political allegiances first and other considerations second.

As for what I’d like to see: basically just Andor Season 2. After that I don’t care what happens.

Underrated post.

rocknroll41 said:

Great write-up Acbagel!

Unfortunately I don’t think simply making “a little something for everyone” (i.e. different things for different people) is enough to unite the fandom, as each group generally seems to think Star Wars should only be made for their tastes specifically (even if not everyone admits it). Doesn’t help also that a ton of YouTubers nowadays make an entire living from hating Star Wars, no matter what it does.

Of all the groups you mentioned, I’m in the one that you described as “not very protective, fine with whatever direction Disney takes.” I honestly think at this point they should just keep doing whatever they’re doing, cause people will get mad no matter what. There was a time when even ESB was divisive, ffs!

Yeah I agree with this also. But Lucasfilm/Disney also need to have the balls to stick with projects or story direction. Don’t crib notes from fans. Sure learn from mistakes but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Key example: Solo.
The movie was perfectly fine. Did it set the world on fire? No. Were there other key issues that also effected it’s performance? Absolutely. But don’t set up an ongoing story and then abandon it because “shit happens”. Learn the right lessons and fix the errors. Make the next one a banger. Ensure the next in the Solo series is unmissable.

It’s the same now with the Acolyte. It was a bit hit/miss but there’s more story to be told. Learn the right lessons. Fix the main issues. Whether it’s pacing, character development, production quality, whatever. But back in your story. At the end of the day we just want good, well told stories that we can reflect on with satisfaction.

EvantheKidDS said:

“Nobody hated the Prequels, until the internet told them too.”

Recently, I’ve have seen a bunch of videos that debunked why the overall feel of the Star Wars Prequels was so bad to begin with when they first came out. And not only that, on how George Lucas was being heavily discredited by the internet trying to prove he didn’t do anything in making the original Star Wars film when it was in production. Keep in mind, this atmosphere was at the time before the Disney acquisition.

No, not really. Most of the YouTube videos I have seen that purportedly “set the record straight” are little more than revisionist history and completely disingenuous. The creators seem less interested in accurately documenting the Star Wars community during the prequel era than appealing to a specific target market dissatisfied with the current direction of the franchise.

Some said that the Prequels divided the entire Star Wars Community, when there’s evidence where it is most likely that wasn’t the case.

Having lived it, I can entirely confirm this was indeed the case. For the first time ever, websites such as theforce.net had to enforce bans on their forums and began moderating based on response to the films rather than explicit language. Other sites, including this one, were deemed to be havens for those unhappy with the prequels and felt unwelcome (or banned) on TFN and StarWars.com. In fact the terms “basher” and “gusher” were commonly thrown around in 2005, like “reylo” and “tfm” is thrown around today. Make no mistake, the response to the prequels was as divisive to Star Wars fandom as the sequels have been.

Ever since the release of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker, the fans have started to come around and started showing the prequels the appreciation that I believe they should have gotten in the first place, in which they did, at-least until the internet influenced by the wrong type of Star Wars fans, disagreed with them.

I disagree. I believe the reason for this renaissance of the PT is largely due to the generation of kids who grew up with them now have a voice both online and in the media. Yes, the less than stellar response to the ST has somewhat galvanised this voice, however, I also believe that many fans, like myself, are able to accept the prequels because they now only make up 1/3 of the larger saga rather than half of it.

I also predict that in the next 5-10 years there will be a similar resurgence in ST appreciation as the kids first introduced to Star Wars through Rey and Kylo Ren come of age. It’s like poetry. It rhymes.

Also, there is a mountain of evidence that proves that George Lucas was heavily involved in the creation of the original Star Wars, and all the production staff that worked alongside him to turn his vision into a reality, shows that he didn’t screw over Star Wars, the company that bought LucasFilm and the franchise did, Disney.

Lucas has always been acknowledged as the visionary creator of the original trilogy. Any claim that this was ever in doubt in Star Wars fandom is a fallacy. However, with the poor response to the PT, the question began to be asked about the influence other creators may have had on those first three films. Michael Kaminsky’s “The Secret History of Star Wars” is a good example of this. Until this point, Lucas was largely seen as a film making genius, particularly by the fandom. However, with the advent of the prequels (and to a lesser extent the SEs) that idea began to change and is itself indicative of the disappointment Star Wars fans had with the direction of Star Wars at the time. Contemporary documentaries such as “The People vs George Lucas” demonstrate this sentiment, as do the countless forum posts on this website and many others dating back to the early 2000s.

Considering the situation, I began wondering about one question that has plagued me for months.
Should George Lucas somehow fight to bring LucasFilm back under his control, even though the environment around the films, the fans wasn’t friendly at the time?

In short: No.

StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

It’s truly mind boggling to me that someone could have two problems with this movie, and one of them is that a specific kind of TIE fighter doesn’t have hyperdrive. Like, you realize how ridiculous that sounds right?

The Space Shuttle Atlantis uncouples from the ISS at the conclusion of another successful mission. On the other side of the space station, a VW Beetle from Russia fires its retro rockets on approach.

Not the same thing. Star Wars isn’t real life, and you don’t need to read an obscure EU book to know that a VW Beetle can’t fly in space. I’m not bothered by it at all, and I love the imagery of an X-Wing and a TIE fighter parked next to each other. It really helps illustrate Rey and Kylo coming together.

Obi-wan says that this TIE fighter is specifically short range in the original movie, no EU required.

But that implies there are also long range fighters. It was only the EU that established none of the Imperial fighters can jump to lightspeed, so I don’t see the problem. And like I said before, I think the idea of “plot holes” as an objective measure of quality is dumb in general.

Could it not be as simple as Ben Solo returning to his Star Destroyer, post Death Star fight, in the only available working craft he could find. When the fleet then jumps to Exegol, he sneaks off the Star Destroyer in the same craft to help Rey and kill Palpatine. This requires no prototype fighter and no hand waving. To me it is a logical choice Ben is likely to have made.

RU.08 said:

trimboNZ said:

But Rey is a Skywalker now. That was the message I thought came across at the end. Family is not just blood. Adoption and all that.

But the film undid the last film and made her a Palpatine. Not a Skywalker.

How is this an arc that began in Episode 7?

I don’t think it undid it at all. It was more of a continuation of her journey. In TFA Rey learns she has more to offer the galaxy than waiting for a family who will never return. In TLJ, Rey learns it’s not important where she came from or who her parents were. In TROS this acceptance enables her to ascend her heritage and choose her own story to ultimately find the family she has been looking for.

These people deserve to be called out as the abhorrent jerks they are. Seriously, this is a series of fictional films! People are sending death threats and behaving like absolute nobs just because someone made a star war they didn’t like, or wrote a story they felt was boring, or were a bit confused by all the long words they used.

It’s time these “fans” chilled the **** out and realised their sense of entitlement doesn’t give them the right to troll and abuse people whose only “crime” was to try to make something others would enjoy. It sickens me to see Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran forced to close down their Instagram accounts because idiots think it’s their right to post hateful dribble at them when they post a photo, just because they were in Star Wars.

Meanwhile shows like RFR and Geeks and Gamers pander their self important drivel to these dregs of the community in a wholly transparent attempt to get more subscriptions and likes. Seriously, remember what this harassment has done to Jake Lloyd?

Frank your Majesty said:

I hate everything Star Wars.

Am I doing it right?

Isn’t that the latest video from geeks and gamers?

Not sure if this is the right forum but just wanted to acknowledge the absolute awesomeness of these revisited edits. I watched ANH:R and ESB:R over the weekend and am compelled to extol my sincere appreciation. They truly are what the Special Editions should have been and brilliantly enhance these wonderful films. Little things like seeing the Death Star’s laser begin to fire an instant before it explodes; the AT-ST being taken out by it’s larger, falling AT-AT companion. Even the early Death Star shots with the unnamed blue planet now seem inspired after the events of Rogue One.

Revisited is now my official canon goto. Just can’t say enough about this Adywan, you’ve exceeded any and all expectations. Congratulations, I can’t wait to see what you do with ROTJ.

Hi All, I’ve only posted a few times on these threads (despite being a constant lurker since 2006) but thought it’s time I threw my hat into the fray.

Just an observation more than anything I guess, but do you think the late release of the novelisation may have contributed to the divisive reaction to TLJ?

Previously you could always go to the book if you were unsure about a character’s motivation or a plot point. It would generally provide an extra insight that would help to process what at first may have felt a little jarring.

Don’t know, would love to hear your thoughts though.

NeverarGreat said:

“George always intended nine movies.”

Except when he “always intended” twelve. Or three.

So true. At various times George has also “always intended”:

One; twelve; nine; three; nine; six and nine again.

Possessed said:

Just watched it again for the first time in about a year. I still loved it. Honestly I wasn’t even bothered by some of the similarities to ANH. The only thing I would change is cut down on some of the humor and trim Kylo rens temper tantrums. Maybe after I do my eventual rotj fan edit.

My only problems with it weren’t what I wanted cut out but what I wanted more of.

oojason said:

Diversity, tolerance, culture and understanding was in short supply back in the 80’s - and seems a few European countries didn’t like the word ‘ninja’ in kids tv programs, and also cut some content too.
 

Wiki has the reason for TMHT as this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles#Teenage_Mutant_.22Hero.22_Turtles

(’…since local censorship policies deemed the word ninja to have excessively violent connotations for a children’s program…’)
 

So we had ‘Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles’ until 2003 (I never realised there was a difference or content was cut) - I imagine the reason why it wasn’t renamed back to ‘Ninja’ earlier was likely to do with costs etc.
 

Looking back, many kids were all out with friends or playing sport / music, getting into mischief etc - watching tv was for rainy days and kids who were being punished / ill / recovering from accidents etc (and computer gaming was for winter). I vividly remember the old girl bellowing out ‘be back for tea (dinner) and not before, and don’t be late either!’

Not at all like today’s youth.

Not me. My mum was constantly telling me how nice it was outside. Go and play some footy … blah, blah, blah. The TV would have to be turned off and I’d be pushed out the door, then spend the next half hour in a fogged out haze trying to remember how to navigate in the real world.

That was called a Saturday.

Wazzles said:

I have some serious speculation for you guys.

Just noticed this.

Deserves a repost.

Humby said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

DominicCobb said:

The Starkiller plan scene is easily the worst in the film, but even then it’s still fun in a “don’t take this too seriously” kind of way.

What do you mean?

Random Dude: A weapon of this size must have some kind of thermal oscillator

Janitor: It does. (instantly points to a specific place in a complex holographic model) right here!

Oh, right.

Am I the only one who assumed that Finn working sanitation meant that he was stationed in the “sanitation unit” as patrol/guard, not an actual janitor? And considering these guys are raised from birth, they are probably educated to some degree in engineering.

No you’re not.

Am I the only one who actually thinks TFA has gotten better? I rewatched over the weekend after about an 18 month hiatus.

Loved it.

When Rey gets that saber … chills man, chills.

BigMcLargeHuge said:

There was that scene with the rathtars and the smugglers confronting Han in TFA.

Perhaps the worst scene/series of scenes in TFA.

I really don’t understand this. How is this a bad scene? I mean sure the cgi is not the best but I’ve always enjoyed it. I love the “in ya face” to the Han shot first deniers.

And as for worst scene in the saga … seriously? It’s not even the worst scene in the movie.

/Johnny-come-lately-post

imperialscum said:

Kellythatsit said:

Because of harmy I’ve been able to show my boys the OUT.

Unfortunately, a friend of theirs recently showed them the 2004 DVD Special Edition.

They now prefer that version.

That friend has been banned from my house.

You already showed them the OUT first and then later on someone showed them the SE and now you banned that kid from your house because of that? That is just stupid. They would see the SE sooner or later, whether you like it or not. Acting like a paranoid dictator and trying to censor things like that is obsessive behaviour. Ironically, reminds me of the behaviour of a certain person who did not want us ever to see theatrical versions again.

Umm…the comment about the kid being banned was tongue in cheek.

Apologies if that wasn’t obvious

It will be an emotional film to watch, I agree. Going to be hard to say goodbye to the princess.

I think the contingency plan for TFA was basically if one of them didn’t come back none of them would. It’s why everyone was so anxious about whether Harrison Ford would be back, given his history with the character.

I’m sure a collective sigh was heard from Lucasfilm the day Ford agreed to return.

Still, that plan is kind of out the window now …

Just saw the episode.

Where the hell did that come from?

After last weeks episode I was ready to throw in the towel with this series but this episode was simply excellent.

Sabines monologue during the final duel gave me goosebumps and heartburn all at once.

Now we have a three week break … After just taking a three week break … Why so many breaks?

Mithrandir said:

ATMachine said:

Mithrandir said:

ATMachine said:

oojason said:

http://www.starwars.com/news/a-statement-regarding-new-rumors

"We don’t normally respond to fan or press speculation, but there is a rumor circulating that we would like to address. We want to assure our fans that Lucasfilm has no plans to digitally recreate Carrie Fisher’s performance as Princess or General Leia Organa.

Carrie Fisher was, is, and always will be a part of the Lucasfilm family. She was our princess, our general, and more importantly, our friend. We are still hurting from her loss. We cherish her memory and legacy as Princess Leia, and will always strive to honor everything she gave to Star Wars."

The fact that Disney had to issue such a press release at all is testimony to the public unease on this issue in the wake of Rogue One. If LFL’s digital wizardry has no qualms about zombifying an actor who’s been dead for 20 years, why should they show any (the thinking goes) about resurrecting a mainstay of the SW franchise who died unexpectedly young?

It’s just as unethical as acting impersonating someone who’s been dead for 20 years. Should we regard all the Frankensteins that borrowed from Boris Karloff the acting mannerisms and similar-inspired prosthetics as unethical?

No.

It’s one thing for an actor to take inspiration from another actor’s portrayal of a role. It’s another thing for CGI effects houses to use computers to recreate in minute detail the visage of a human being who is no longer with us.

One is a performance, the other a mask. Without Guy Henry having Tarkin in RO wouldn’t have been possible.

Gary Oldman recreating Churchill’s likeness by prosthetics isn’t just a performance, it is a mask.

If the recreated character existed in real life then it seems to be legitimate. If the character is fictional (which would mean his likeness is that of the actor who played it), within a well established continuity of screenplays that without a doubt constitute an organic unity, then magically it is not legitimate.

Peter Cushing is the only face of Tarkin we know. ROTS portrayed Tarkin with the very likeness of Cushing. TCW and Rebels styllistically recreated Cushing’s facial structure. It is only logical that in a movie set 2 days before SW77 Tarkin has to look as close as Cushing as possible. The state-of-the-art of that possibility is what we had.

Theatre is supposed to be as real as possible. That statement is the sole justification of prosthetics, voice impersonations, scenography, imitation performances, even method acting.

It is strange that no one scandalizes about ancient Rome’s recreation in Gladiator because that city no longer exists. You may argue that Cushing or Fisher are far different than things but within these movie Cushing or Fisher just are not there. It’s only their physical likeness what are there, and yes, their looks and mannerisms indeed are things, resources of the screenplay to accomplish the goal of preserving the illusion. That is even the actual justification for the likeness being a transable asset.

It’s just a guy wearing a sophisticated mask of Tarkin/Leia, no one is making a fake Peter Cushing affiliate to the Nazi Party or do something he wouldn’t have done in real, personal life.

Excellent post.

In my opinion it is more about its effect stylistically on the medium rather than ethically. The uncanny valley effect. Simply knowing an actor is incapable of playing that character as they appear, either through death or age difference, is enough to create that shift. Our minds tell us that what we are seeing cannot be real. Even if an effects company were to create a flawless characterisation of an actor, I suspect we would still experience the effect.

This is where it is important for a film maker to use this technology wisely. I feel that recreating Carrie Fisher’s likeness for a character as central to Star Wars as Leia would be a disservice to the film and the story they are trying to tell.

Alderaan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Alderaan said:

Disney hasn’t done a single thing right in 5 years.

Oops.

I think you have some serious issues Fink. Disney puts out a statement like that about Carrie’s death and your only response is to continue to argue with other posters. Maybe one of the moderators should have a discussion with you about your posting behavior on OT.com

And yes, I agree with Tyrph. That was nice of Lucasfilm to say.

We’ll see if it was merely a strategically timed statement, or if they actually stand by their word.

If Lucasfilm do indeed intend to use Fisher’s image for future movies or even if they want to keep the door ajar, why would they make such an unequivocal announcement? Especially given there was no real need for them to respond to this rumour

ferris209 said:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/01/06/star-wars-fans-petition-for-leia-to-be-newest-disney-princess.html

Um…no thank you.

Mithrandir said:

ferris209 said:

I think they could beautifully write in Leia’s death to serve as a tribute to Carrie Fisher and an emotional sendoff for the fans for both the character of Leia and Carrie Fisher.

Don’t know how much Star Wars could benefit of playing with the fourth wall that way. Kilo being a Darth Vader fan that is shown in his intimacy speaking to a mask almost tore it down.

I hope they let Leia be Leia, and give the character a logical conclussion to its arc, whatever they decided it to be; and let us grieve Carrie in the real world where she belongs.

Agree with this. Leia is too important (and iconic) a character to not be given that honour.

However, if the way to complete Leia’s arc is through digital modelling then I’d prefer they look at other solutions. Whether that is tweaking of scripts for 8 and 9, or inserting unused footage from 8.

I guess I’d be open to a small percentage of cgi remodelling if it was used in conjunction with unused footage, was minimal and pretty much seamless.

Fang Zei said:

… I’m pretty sure we know for a fact that George had the changes cut directly into the o-neg …

I still can’t believe that this happened 😦