Kaweebo

Servii said:

“Star Wars was always poorly written” is an argument I really take issue with. If the original film were poorly written, none of us would even be here with our attachment to this franchise.

Exactly. It’s okay to say the series has had bad writing on principle, but to just blanket say it as an excuse for further bad writing is just an insult to the people who worked on some of the best works in the franchise to make them the level of quality they are as pointless.

NFBisms said:

I was one of those suckers who was actually really excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) because Deborah Chow and Kelley DIxon’s work on Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad fuckin’ rule. Needless to say, that was a bit misguided.

So I took a crack at editing the show to be closer in tone and style to what I expected out of BB-verse alumni.

I don’t think I’m going to do the whole show, but it was just a fun little experiment. The edit isn’t supposed to be like BB/BCS fwiw, just approaching the material with some of the storytelling philosophy I learned from them.

At the very least, Deborah Chow’s sensibilities as a director were still conducive to being arranged in this way so at least some of my excitement wasn’t unfounded

The real pitfall of this show was mostly Joby Harold’s abysmal writing tbf.

NFBisms said:

This is something I put together in the other Kenobi redux thread, just in case it could be relevant to this project in some way:

NFBisms said:

I was one of those suckers who was actually really excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) because Deborah Chow and Kelley DIxon’s work on Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad fuckin’ rule. Needless to say, that was a bit misguided.

So I took a crack at editing the show to be closer in tone and style to what I expected out of BB-verse alumni.

I don’t think I’m going to do the whole show, but it was just a fun little experiment. The edit isn’t supposed to be like BB/BCS fwiw, just approaching the material with some of the storytelling philosophy I learned from them.

At the very least, Deborah Chow’s sensibilities as a director were still conducive to being arranged in this way so at least some of my excitement wasn’t unfounded

This is so much better edited than the original, what the hell. AND you removed Jake Lloyd’s face at the end. Very well done.

Anjohan said:

Octorox said:

GLogus said:

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

I agree with this, and honestly I don’t see him not finishing Vader off as an issue. Sure, he recognizes that Anakin is gone, but recognizing it is one thing, and striking the killing blow himself is another. He couldn’t do it on Mustafar, and I think he still couldn’t do it here.

Well, I agree. I always did. But it still is an issue for most.

However, perhaps I should just re-insert the two lines - or just the “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and call it quits. The halfway point.

I don’t see it as a game changer either way. Episode 6 works almost as is (without Reeva).

I quite liked the “I killed Anakin Skywalker” line, tbh, and how it was meant to be conveyed leaves lots of room for interpretation. If we’re going with the idea that Kenobi did let him live again, the line allows Kenobi to fully get over his guilt by having Vader tell him directly that it was HIS choice what happened in Ep III, not Obi-Wan’s.

Anjohan said:
Perhaps because Ben never intended for Luke to defeat Vader? At the end of Kenobi he literally tells Owen that the faith of the boy is in Owen’s hands, and that he was right to protect the boy from the broader picture. It seems to be faith that brings Ben and Luke back together - evident by how shocked and surprised and ill-prepared Ben is when faced with questions about “my father”.

That’s a possible explanation for it, I suppose, though it feels a little flimsy. He still seems to want to train Luke really bad in ANH and I can’t imagine he wouldn’t guess that he would have to face his father sometime.

But it’s better than nothing I guess so I’m not completely opposed. I’m definitely looking forward to seeing how you handle stuff and if you can redeem it for me.

MalaStrana#2 said:

danieldubb said:

everything is looking great here… I was just curious if anyone else didnt like the obi wan flying rocks part?.. just doesnt feel right to me somehow… a small nitpick but just curious

It looks ridiculous and ugly yeah. It’s like « Rey at the end of TLJ + Vader throwing some stuff at Luke in TESB ». It also is how new SW content creators see the Force: as a gimmick to make stones fly… (I still think Disney doesn’t understand anything about what Ryan Johnson was trying to warn them about 😬)

Bro, the climax of TLJ was literally Rey floating rocks to save everyone. Every time I see people sing that film’s praises for “breaking the status quo,” or something, I have to ask if we saw two completely different movies because TLJ went back on virtually every single point it made from the beginning by the end.

But I do agree, all Disney knows how to do is have Jedi lift rocks and throw them. That’s Obi-Wan’s ultimate power move lol

Acbagel said:

Ben won’t kill Vader because he still considers Anakin his friend, he wants him to grow & gain the wisdom that Ben knows he’s capable of learning.

That still doesn’t work since he is adamant in Return of the Jedi that Luke must strike his father down, even going so far as to say when Luke says he can’t, “then the Emperor has already won.”

CMMAP said:

Darth Raditz said:
With the final duel here, I have a lot more problems. On top of taking place in a much safer environment, Vader is beaten by Obi-Wan AND basically absolves Obi-Wan of having killed Anakin Skywalker. By not killing Vader, Obi-Wan’s no responsible for all the people Vader will kill in the future. You have to do something to address it.

This is the problem of this series to begin with. How would one tell this kind of story given the frame from the OT? I can’t think of anything worthwile.
The „Obi-Wan inflicted enough pain to his former friend“ argument is one i can live with.

I appreciated some of the things in the duel acting as foreshadowing for their duel in ANH; Vader sarcastically calling Obi-Wan “master,” Obi-Wan calling Vader “Darth,” and the scene where Vader tells Kenobi that he killed Anakin himself all really worked for me on principle. While I’ve accepted the idea that Mustafar was the last time they met for 15 years, there was definitely room for them to have had another encounter in the meantime.

If the circumstances of HOW they got there were better, this show would have been a welcome addition to my canon for the story. As is, I’d rather it not even have been made.

Anjohan said:

What about Obi-Wan not killing Anakin?

Well, as I’ve now answered the point about Qui-Gon, I always interpreted this scene that Obi-Wan felt he had inflicted enough damage on his old friend. I never once questioned why he left him like he did on Mustafar, but having heard you guys debate it over and over again have made me wonder if this is a huge problem for most? If so, I’m open to more ideas…

The problem is, I’m not sure how you COULD fix this. Because yes I am in the camp that it simply does not make sense Obi-Wan would let him live again because that means he’s deferring to having Luke do it when he’s older. Why would he pressure Luke to kill Vader later on if he had the chance to do it TWICE? Once in RotS is understandable, I think he genuinely thought he was going to die there on Mustafar. But here it just makes him look moronic at best and downright irresponsible at worst.

But again, I don’t think there’s a way to edit that to make it make sense. A problem with these new shows is that unlike movies (usually, looking at you TROS…) there’s generally no deleted scenes released for them, so even if they filmed a different version, we’ll never get to see it.

Channel72 said:

To be honest, the various canon problems introduced by this show are the LEAST problematic aspect of the show for me. I’ve had to continuously “readjust” my understanding of Star Wars since 1999.

So now we learn Obi-Wan had this whole adventure with little 10-year-old Leia, which CLEARLY is not what you would infer from Leia’s holographic message in A New Hope. But then, in 1999 I also learned that Darth Vader created C3PO - which… doesn’t exactly contradict anything, but… like, really?

Now we know that when Obi-Wan says “Obi-Wan Kenobi? That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time… a long time”, he means like 9 years. 9 years ago was 2013. That’s barely even yesterday, especially as you get older and time subjectively seems to move faster.

But on the other hand, after watching the Prequels, I learned that “a long time… a long time” actually just means around 19 years. Kenobi also says he hasn’t heard the name “Obi Wan” since before Luke was born, which is outright contradicted by Revenge of the Sith. Furthermore, 19 years ago was 2003. That’s certainly a “while” ago, I guess. For someone under 30 that might seem like a really long time. But it’s not “a long time… a long time” from the perspective of an old man. I mean I’m not THAT old, but 2003 doesn’t feel so long ago to me. Anyone watching Alec Guinness deliver that line in A New Hope would likely come away thinking he meant “like 40 or more years ago, maybe even centuries ago? (who knows how long these magical Jedi space Wizards can live anyway?)”

The point is, I’m so used to my natural understanding of the OT being forced to adjust or contort to fit later installments, to the extent that trying to maintain a consistent “canon” seems absurd. The only way is to be selective and maintain a personal head canon.

That said, I’m not trying to defend the Kenobi show. I think it’s tragically mediocre. But the ways it screws up canon is really the LEAST of its problems.

I would argue it does more damage than the prequels in that regard. Short of obvious flubs like Lucas forgetting that “a thousand years” and “a thousand generations” are two different things and stuff like Leia remembering her mother when RotS showed that the twins both had the exact same amount of time with her, there’s nothing that really changes or makes what comes after fundamentally unworkable. Things like Qui-Gon being Obi-Wan’s master rather than Yoda works just the same since Yoda trained all the Jedi and there’s no reason force ghost Kenobi would go into details while Luke is freezing to death on Hoth.

With this show though, you’re taking a film that has already been recontextualized out the wazoo by later films like RotJ and the prequels that it’s already packed to the brim with subtext dripping out of every line of dialogue. Adding more to that just stretches it beyond belief and stops creating substance and starts being incomprehensible.

Leia never mentioning or showing familiarity with Obi-Wan and now Luke showing unfamiliarity with lightsabers and never mentioning what happened to him as a child all comes off as unbelievable rather than plausible, even if he suffered amnesia or something after the fact, WE the audience know what happened and that little tidbit of info doesn’t actually add anything to the saga. Especially in something that is comparatively extended media compared to the film saga itself.

Couple that with a brand new character who is never mentioned in any other source being tied so intimately with each of the main characters and it reads like fanfiction. And maybe as a fanfiction it would be acceptable but a big budget Disney TV show that’s supposed to be ‘official’ canon? I’m sorry, no.

DrDre said:

Kaweebo said:

Ava G. said:

adywan said:

So basically, what you are saying is that those that think this show was a pile of garbage are just too damn stupid to to think deeply enough or are just too stupid to piece together what these highly intelligent beings that praise the show can see before their super intellectual selves because they can actually think? Right, got it.

No. I’m calling them unwilling to extend their critical minds beyond the so-called plot hole or complaint.

An example. A reviewer on YT made a deal about how in episode 5, Reva has the troopers escort Obi-Wan (who surrendered) back into the cave compound. As in, the logical thing would have been to keep him outside the entrance and wait for Vader.

I think we can infer why Reva made that move. But nobody I saw really pushed back on this. Not the other reviewers he spoke to, and nobody in his audience. It’s a common problem.

See, I’m incredibly critical of this show but I also find much of the criticism to be really stupid by some people. There’s much bigger problems in that episode alone worth mentioning over stuff like Reva having the stormies escort Kenobi back inside. At that point, she was in on his plan and the rest of her troops weren’t going to question her on it, they’re trained not to.

Now, the fact that she spent 10 minutes shooting the blast doors with a cannon for no reason only to do the smart thing and cut it open with her lightsaber at the most dramatic moment possible instead of immediately doing so upon getting there is something that still boggles my mind the writers just left in.

Or that Bail Organa would create evidence of the existence of the twins and location of “the boy” in a recording, that he made believing Obi-Wan may have been captured by the Empire.

Or that Bail would jeopardize the fate of both children by calling Kenobi out of hiding in the first place “because only he knows how important they are,” even though in canon, he’s actively working with another Jedi in the nascent rebellion (Ahsoka) who’s way less recognizable to the general public that could have tracked Leia down and probably gotten away much easier, because the fact that the Empire KNOWS Obi-Wan came for Leia directly implicates the House of Organa as Jedi sympathizers.

Of course that’s also accepting the premise that Reva just happened to hit the nail on the head on a whim by looking through the Imperial archives and single-handedly uncovered the entire conspiracy surrounding Vader’s children in one fell swoop (as well as having an encounter with Owen on Tatooine) which just makes her look either omniscient or insanely lucky to have gotten all those pieces lined up like that.

Ava G. said:

adywan said:

So basically, what you are saying is that those that think this show was a pile of garbage are just too damn stupid to to think deeply enough or are just too stupid to piece together what these highly intelligent beings that praise the show can see before their super intellectual selves because they can actually think? Right, got it.

No. I’m calling them unwilling to extend their critical minds beyond the so-called plot hole or complaint.

An example. A reviewer on YT made a deal about how in episode 5, Reva has the troopers escort Obi-Wan (who surrendered) back into the cave compound. As in, the logical thing would have been to keep him outside the entrance and wait for Vader.

I think we can infer why Reva made that move. But nobody I saw really pushed back on this. Not the other reviewers he spoke to, and nobody in his audience. It’s a common problem.

See, I’m incredibly critical of this show but I also find much of the criticism to be really stupid by some people. There’s much bigger problems in that episode alone worth mentioning over stuff like Reva having the stormies escort Kenobi back inside. At that point, she was in on his plan and the rest of her troops weren’t going to question her on it, they’re trained not to.

Now, the fact that she spent 10 minutes shooting the blast doors with a cannon for no reason only to do the smart thing and cut it open with her lightsaber at the most dramatic moment possible instead of immediately doing so upon getting there is something that still boggles my mind the writers just left in.

Hal 9000 said:

It’d be sad to lose the Luke and Reva tension, as I’m usually up for a halfway decent redemption story. But it might be necessary in order to crunch this down to a sensible feature length.

Fundamental disagreement here, that was the worst part of the show. Not only was the way it came about ridiculously contrived but Luke having any contact with an Inquisitor with her lightsaber out goes far beyond stretching canon to its breaking point.

Honestly, I love the commitment to the idea but nothing about this show worked pretty much at all. The fact that Obi-Wan and Leia know each other is a massive misstep and that’s integral to the show, you can’t erase that. I look forward to the end product just to see what you come up with though. Hal9000’s TROS edit made that film slightly more tolerable to me so I’m curious to see what you do.

This show was a genuine trainwreck. I agree with Adywan, this should have started with Obi-Wan saving Luke. Maybe while the rescue is happening or just after, he runs into that Jedi from the beginning of the show and that’s how he gets wrapped up in everything. Leia should not have been involved at all in any of this.

Hal 9000 said:

With time, you will eventually see a piece of media depicting Grogu being trained by Rey Skywalker.

Grossgrossgrossgrossgrossgross eewwwwwwwww

Jesus Christ, how are you pulling this new audio seemingly out of your ass to smooth out these scenes so well and make them more natural? These are so good!

sade1212 said:

Ebkas said:

A test at making TLJ Yoda look more like his OT self: https://streamable.com/vmvf04

How did you achieve this? A still frame from ESB blended and manually warped to match the TLJ animation, or is it something more like a Deepfake?

That’d be a hilarious usage of that technology. Deepfake a puppet with another puppet lol

sade1212 said:

Ebkas said:

A test at making TLJ Yoda look more like his OT self: https://streamable.com/vmvf04

How did you achieve this? A still frame from ESB blended and manually warped to match the TLJ animation, or is it something more like a Deepfake?

That’d be a hilarious usage of that technology. Deepfake a puppet with another puppet lol

Loving that this project is still up and kicking. I haven’t kept tabs in a while since I thought it was dead. I only have one minor criticism though, and that’s on the “your Padawan” line. It’s wonderfully edited but I feel it doesn’t fit as both of them are well aware that Ahsoka has distanced herself from the Jedi. Of course, you could argue it’s a force of habit on Obi’s part, but it feels a bit out of place imo.

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s a revised option B with a final “Hello?” at the end. I’m not sure it works better, though. Looking forward to your thoughts about which option B is the best option B.

https://vimeo.com/263147287
password: fanedit

Link doesn’t work. 😕

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB7upq8nzIU

I remember this was posted in the forum a couple years ago when it was first presented in 2016, but I feel like if somebody could get this working with a synth of Lanter’s voice and had good enough skills with the software, you could literally just redub all of Anakin’s lines with Matt’s voice and it would be almost seamless.

Octorox said:

I love it all in theory but in addition to the First Kill line sounding out of place, the stuff from the video game is also clearly voice actors Mat Lucas and James Arnold Taylor, not Hayden and Ewan. The Mat Lucas line sounds almost like it could pass as Hayden but the James Arnold Taylor bit sticks out to me because I’m so familiar with his Obi-Wan voice.

It is noticeable but honestly, if you’re watching the whole thing through, I don’t think it’ll stick out too much.

The thing that bugs me more is the obvious muting of the sound when Anakin jumps. I’m not too sure why you decided to cut out the grunt he makes when jumping backward, especially since they’re grunting and yelling all throughout the fight.

HerekittykittyX said:

NFBisms said:

First Kill and the Revenge of the Sith
th video game. xP

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mCG0B5R7v5DuJw_g68X3vLsp55JY5R7v/view?usp=sharing

I think the First Kill audio (“You weren’t there, alright? I did what I had to do!”) is a bit jarring to people who know RotS really well, but my sister and friend who don’t have it kind of memorized didn’t notice so idk. For me, what was off was Hayden’s voice in the clip isn’t in the same attitude as the lines that were originally there (“Don’t lecture me Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi…”). So I was iffy about even including this change.

At the end of the day, though, Hayden’s voice “attitude” erratically shifts a bunch in the original as well. Going from “YoU wiLL nOt tAKe heR fRoM me!!” to the calmer “Don’t lecture me…”, etc, pretty quickly. And the content of those lines are all over the place in terms of what they’re saying about Anakin’s motivations, too. Is this about Padme, is it about how powerful you are, about the lies of the Jedi, or about bringing peace and order to the galaxy?

The new lines are more consistent to the idea that Anakin believes in the ends he has killed and slaughtered towards, and makes the confrontation dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan actually mean something to both the characters. In the original, the dialogue is really just filler before they have to fight. Obi-Wan is just yelling at Anakin for being evil now, and Anakin is rattling off about like four different things - both just taunting each other with no real conversation about what’s happening between the two of them. There’s no point in building up their relationship in the rest of the movie if the only pay off is that they stop being friends. It should be challenging for the two of them.

So there’s some actual drama going on now, but I think it does ask a bit of suspension of disbelief in the audio. If that proves to be an issue, I’ll get rid of it…

How about you use the dialogue from the Clone Wars the Ghost of Mortis Arc.

I would use i have seen that is the Jedi that stands in the way of peace.

Matt Lanter’s Anakin voice doesn’t quite mesh up with Hayden’s. So, while this Anakin is being based off of the TCW version, he obviously can’t sound the same unless we literally got Lanter to do the voice here.

NFBisms said:

I feel that, but the footage just doesn’t look like Star Wars, and takes me out of it every time. I don’t buy that that’s Leia and Padme, I have to accept that it is because the movie said so.

I love love love the idea, but I think the execution of it is at odds with this edit’s goal to make ep III less expository. I want things that happen in it to be felt, not just told to the audience to accept. For example, it’s not like Anakin and Obi-Wan aren’t “brothers” as stated in the original cut, but do you actually buy that with what we’re given? So one of the biggest goals of the edit is to make that relationship feel more like that. (Which is why some things people would usually cut are staying).

I barely even buy that Padme and Leia are from the same movie with Hal’s Boleyn Girl footage, (not to mention, I’ve personally seen that movie lol) and in the meantime, the original Padme’s funeral scene has emotional pay off from earlier in the movie, and the trilogy. Even if it contradicts a few lines in the OT. Besides, as the “New Canon Cut” of RotS, there is a dumb explanation in the nuCanon explaining how Leia remembers her mother that this edit can fit with.

You make a valid argument and ultimately it’s your edit and up to you. Everything you’re doing in your edit sounds so great I’m sure I’ll enjoy it regardless. Can’t wait for the AotC edit coming up, as well.