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Kaweebo

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14-Dec-2015
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7-Jan-2024
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81

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Post
#1571139
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Just wanted to pop in and say this was a great improvement on a project that was already pretty great to begin with. It definitely smoothed over some of my only gripes with V3 and previous versions, which was some of the awkward editing to bypass cut lines. AI voice cloning tech is a marvelous tool and one that really helps like an easy ADR tool! Specifically great at making Leia feel more like she’s “in the movie” and Poe’s lines explaining Palpatine’s fleet better. Great stuff, I honestly can’t wait to see how this could be tweaked even more!

Post
#1561036
Topic
Asokha Radical Redux Ideas thread
Time

daveybjones999 said:

I agree that Sabine using the force to push Ezra is too much, but I disagree that she shouldn’t use the force at all and that the series has consistently shown this. Some people are misremembering Rebels. It was never stated by anyone that Sabine was unable to use the force. In fact, Kanan only said that anyone with enough practice could use the force and that Sabine couldn’t do it because she was emotionally blocked because she felt betrayed by her family, and then in the very next episode they go and resolve that issue but then Sabine leaves the show for the rest of season 3. She was never stated to be unable to use the force or having no potential in Rebels. Also throughout the entirety of Ahsoka, she was only stated to have the worst potential Huyang had ever known, but it was never stated she had no potential. Also in Ahsoka, we see her practicing all season and basic storytelling conventions should tell us that by the end of the season, Sabine should use the force, and she does. The only issue though is her being able to push Ezra. I have no issue with her using the force to grab the lightsaber as that’s a smaller feat and both Luke and Rey are able to do that without much training so it makes sense that Sabine needs to use tons of training to just be able to do that. It’s just that pushing Ezra is a bit too far. I get what they were trying to do, they were trying to show that Sabine could use the force but was just blocking herself and that after she uses it to get her lightsaber her block is gone, but the two events still feel way too close together for it to be believable.

I don’t disagree with the idea of someone with absolutely no talent with the Force managing to attune themselves enough with training and practice. I just think it should be much more of a struggle than this show presents. Maybe by the end of this season, the most Sabine can do is barely nudge that cup but she’s able to sense other people and has quicker reflexes.

I actually think we got a good example of a really spiritually Force-attuned person with no actual talent in the Force: Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One. Sure he couldn’t Force push or jump high, but he had impressive reflexes and martial skills and by the end, his trust in the Force was so strong that he dodged blaster fire long enough to save the day. I don’t think any of us disagree he’s the closest to a real Jedi that a non-Force sensitive could become. I think Sabine should have been something similar, something different from “normal” Jedi but no less valuable in that way.

Post
#1560913
Topic
Asokha Radical Redux Ideas thread
Time

Artan42 said:

Kaweebo said:

Artan42 said:

WitchDR said:

If Sabine has to have the force, they shouldn’t have made her terrible at it in the beginning. The show spend it’s first few episodes basically telling you she’s terrible via Huyang. Instead she should have been able to use it to a small extent from the start, which could have easily been hand-waved away as something she learned how to do from her previous training with Ahsoka.

But that’s exactly what it’s about and why adults have always made terrible Jedi students since ESB. She’s spent her life not using the Force so will be terrible at it because she’s got 20 years of mindset to undo. Then, when it matters the most it clicks for her.
She’s not lifting an X-Wing, she’s accelerating a 70 odd kilo human who’s already magically levitating themselves, the extra dozen or so metres into a slowly moving wide target. That is in no way not possible for somebody who has probably been taught the theory of levitating even if she couldn’t do it herself until then.

Maybe they could have focused on her PoV for all this a bit more, but, at the end of the day, it’s not Sabine’s story.

It’s not just that she’s an adult. Luke had extreme potential in the Force and it still took him time to fully unlock it. The problem is Sabine’s prior training is all offscreen, with nothing to back it up from Rebels (and no, training with the Darksaber does not count). And even still, they still bumrush her from barely being able to pull a saber to throwing Ezra through the air in the span of a few minutes. It took Luke at least days of training to get to where he is by the end of Empire and he’s still not great at it. And he has much more potential than her.

They needed to sell it much better than they did. Sabine honestly shouldn’t have unlocked anything this season tbh. It ends in a failure with Thrawn escaping anyway. Let the audience feel the amount of time and effort she had to put into it rather than one single training sequence and some offhand remarks to OFFSCREEN training. The way they presented it, I just don’t buy it.

I don’t get what the issue with it being offscreen is. It’s not like Luke’s five mins of backflipping in a swamp acually explains any of the skills he has in RotJ or The Mandalorian, you have to assume Yoda acually tought him useful stuff off screen.
Sabine has already done the start of the combat training way back in Rebels and I’m perfectly happy with her having had the Force related bits off screen between then and this show. Fits with Luke and most of Anakin’s training (you know, as we don’t see any of the bits between TPM and AotC onscreen).

Because we had four seasons of prior engagement with this character where under no uncertain circumstances was it even hinted at that she was Force-sensitive, Huyang calls her “the worst candidate for a Jedi ever,” and it’s obvious she doesn’t have the talent that someone like Luke did. Also, Empire was a film that had to tell a story in under two hours, whereas Ahsoka was a whole TV show and I’m gonna be honest, the pacing is so godawfully slow, they could have easily incorporated more scenes or flashbacks showing her training. The show has to sell to us that someone who has no talent with the Force whatsoever can eventually attain the ability with enough practice and failure, but they present her with the same struggles Luke had, but they’re not nearly the same situation! Luke was strong in the Force, Anakin was the Chosen One, Sabine is neither of those things and that’s an important distinction that the show fails to actually live up to.

Having everything be off-screen and told to us breaks “Show, don’t tell,” first of all, and it’s also a massive leap from her character in the show that this is basically a sequel to. It feels unearned in every way.

Post
#1560841
Topic
Asokha Radical Redux Ideas thread
Time

Artan42 said:

WitchDR said:

If Sabine has to have the force, they shouldn’t have made her terrible at it in the beginning. The show spend it’s first few episodes basically telling you she’s terrible via Huyang. Instead she should have been able to use it to a small extent from the start, which could have easily been hand-waved away as something she learned how to do from her previous training with Ahsoka.

But that’s exactly what it’s about and why adults have always made terrible Jedi students since ESB. She’s spent her life not using the Force so will be terrible at it because she’s got 20 years of mindset to undo. Then, when it matters the most it clicks for her.
She’s not lifting an X-Wing, she’s accelerating a 70 odd kilo human who’s already magically levitating themselves, the extra dozen or so metres into a slowly moving wide target. That is in no way not possible for somebody who has probably been taught the theory of levitating even if she couldn’t do it herself until then.

Maybe they could have focused on her PoV for all this a bit more, but, at the end of the day, it’s not Sabine’s story.

It’s not just that she’s an adult. Luke had extreme potential in the Force and it still took him time to fully unlock it. The problem is Sabine’s prior training is all offscreen, with nothing to back it up from Rebels (and no, training with the Darksaber does not count). And even still, they still bumrush her from barely being able to pull a saber to throwing Ezra through the air in the span of a few minutes. It took Luke at least days of training to get to where he is by the end of Empire and he’s still not great at it. And he has much more potential than her.

They needed to sell it much better than they did. Sabine honestly shouldn’t have unlocked anything this season tbh. It ends in a failure with Thrawn escaping anyway. Let the audience feel the amount of time and effort she had to put into it rather than one single training sequence and some offhand remarks to OFFSCREEN training. The way they presented it, I just don’t buy it.

Post
#1495920
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

Kaweebo said:

It’s just a shame because we will never get a do-over. This show is the ‘definitive’ version of these events. The only way out is to ignore it even happened. I can’t help but be upset.

For what it’s worth there is a fairly decent Kenobi novel written by John Jackson Miller that tells a much smaller scaled story but still hits a lot of the grief and trauma Ben is dealing with.

Oh sure, I read that back when it came out. But a book is never gonna have the same appeal as a live-action show, naturally.

Post
#1495032
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

NFBisms said:

I was actually feeling the same thing tbh! I think like most of my edit ideas I start from Wouldn’t It Be Cool If and I’ll eventually start reeling it back after I realize it wouldn’t fully work the way I want it to.


If anyone hasn’t noticed, I’m ON HOLD for now. On top of the Leia thing, a lot of my tinkering so far has been just that; tinkering. im in this, perhaps selfishly, more for the creative process than actually getting a final edit

I would still like to do a full edit, but as I’ve gone along recently, after a certain point, I felt like I was just going through the motions of the narrative too close to as originally presented. And since I want to use the opening’s tone as a guide, the story remaining action-adventure oriented hasn’t been inspiring me. (Skipping Leia’s intro only exacerbates it even).

I wanted to take a step back and rethink my approach to the material, and find a more cerebral/emotional throughline than just The Rescue. I also don’t feel in great company with people that want less Reva, or less Leia - no offense to anyone that describes for less toxic reasons - that’s been putting me off it too.

Right now, I’m thinking about overhauling to introduce Vader earlier to ground the narrative in the more interpersonal chess game. Otherwise, it’s just Obi-Wan versus some baddies, until it isn’t. This most likely involves reinstating Reva’s orchestration (sorry to anyone that hates that) but idk, the sparse nature of the tone I’m going for feels shallow without tangible driving forces established in some way.

I do fundamentally disagree with the idea that Reva orchestrates everything, but I don’t begrudge you doing what you think is best. At worst, this isn’t the edit for me and that’s fine. I’ll still give it a watch because I am still interested in how you handle things.

Post
#1494002
Topic
Obi-Wan Kenobi Redux Ideas Thread
Time

There’s definitely good ideas there but imo, the guy didn’t go far enough. Reva is still the one who orchestrated the plan to kidnap Kenobi and thus puts him and his connection to the Organas on the Empire’s radar, Leia still knows who Obi-Wan is rather than just his pseudonym of Ben and Vader still does the really stupid thing of having the whole Star Destroyer give up the chase on the Path ship just to sit outside the planet where he and Obi-Wan have their final duel.

Even the changes he made to how the scene on Mapuzo ends still doesn’t really work all that well because Vader still lets him go only to get enraged when Reva fails to catch him later on Nur. If he wants Obi-Wan at ‘full power,’ he’s still not there even at the Inquisitorous headquarters. It just comes off really sloppy (also the line about the Inquisitorius HQ not having shields is still present, despite contradicting Jedi: Fallen Order.)

Further, the final duel between Kenobi and Vader still doesn’t work even if Qui-Gon tells him he’s the Chosen One. One, this contradicts Star Wars: Rebels where it is made explicitly clear that Obi-Wan considers Luke to be the Chosen One instead, but it also still doesn’t explain why Obi-Wan is adamant that Luke be willing to kill Anakin later on. It makes way more sense if Obi-Wan believes that Anakin should die but gets prevented from doing so.

While I think this would be kind of tacky (and just to keep this sort of on-brand for the thread), I’d almost rather Obi-Wan get a Force vision of Luke as a Jedi facing Vader in RotJ or something as a reason why he lets Vader live, ultimately deciding that it’s not his destiny to kill him. Again, it’s tacky but still works 10x better than not at all, because the alternative is he doesn’t kill him out of a personal unwillingness to do so and thus leaves the burden on Luke. At least with this, he could chalk it up to “the will of the Force.” It’d also put slightly more meaning to their meeting at the end of the series as he’s coming face to face with the one he’s ‘seen’ end the conflict once and for all.

I also agree with Pixeljoker about the music choices, there were too many callbacks pulled directly from the movies that just don’t work and would have been better silent. The best thing the edit does is cut Reva out before she becomes egregious by the last episode and does what she does on Tatooine, which is easily the worst part of the show for me. Otherwise it falls quite a bit short of what I’d want out of a ‘perfect’ edit.

Post
#1493650
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

yotsuya said:
In comparison to what Trek has done, no Star Wars fan has anything to complain about.

I agree on principle as a casual ST fan myself who hates Discovery and Picard (jury’s still out on Strange New Worlds), but to me the Obi-Wan show is about as close to a Discovery for me as it can get. But I at least see some common ground on some of the things you complain about, I’m not a fan of a good chunk of the EU either and was okay with seeing it mostly wiped, and I have similar issues with the prequels and TFA. I do like the current Marvel comics runs though (up to a point, I haven’t really caught up in about a year, but the early 2015 stuff was great imo. The Darth Vader comics have all been especially brilliant.)

Post
#1493609
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Yotsuya, do you criticize anything in Star Wars, ever? Or is everything Disney puts out all just good and meaningful to you? I’m genuinely curious to know if there’s anything in Star Wars from, let’s say, the past twenty years, that you genuinely dislike?

It’s just weird to me that you’re on this forum of all places, where the conceit is that Star Wars has been mishandled but could be improved in the editing room like ANH was, yet you seem to think everything that’s been released has been flawless in every way.

Post
#1492794
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

I still maintain my criticism of the character and her place in the story even if I disagree with certain other users on things like acting, performance, etc. And obviously no one deserves to get hate for anything superficial in the real world regardless of how anyone may personally feel about their role in a production. Make no mistake, my issue is a writing one, not anything else.

This is your edit NFB and I trust given the decisions you’ve made so far that you’ll find a way to smartly integrate everything in a way that matches the quality of other shows like BCS and BB.

Post
#1492533
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

Phase3 said:

Kaweebo said:

There’s ways to interpret that, though it would be better if there was a shot of an injured Vader walking back to his ship to really sell the point that he barely survived the encounter and needed to fix his suit, to the point of not even doing a confirm kill on Obi-Wan under the rubble (maybe you could add his hard breathing during shots of Vader walking to give the idea that he’s struggling). Combine that with the escape on Jabiim, assuming that’s still going to be part of this edit (emphasized by the flashback sequence showing that he still is being taught by Kenobi even now), and there’s certainly enough there to give the impression that Vader considered himself a learner in this scenario.

It makes Obi-Wan being stuck under the rocks a move out of desperation rather than a true final pin on their confrontation. Because the alternative is what happens in the show where Vader just assumes he killed Obi-Wan and foolishly goes to leave the planet, making him look incompetent as he seems to consistently give Kenobi ‘outs’ to escape; once on Mapuzo and once here.

I 100% agree with you! If it’s okay with you, can I use your idea of a shot of Vader walking back to his shuttle, with audio of him struggling to breathe?

Cheers,

You don’t need my permission, I’m just bouncing ideas off of what you came up with lol

Post
#1492526
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

CMMAP said:

Phase3 said:

Would you consider an alternate ending to the show?
I was thinking about the following:
During the second duel between Obi-Wan and Vader, instead of Obi-Wan walking away, getting into his starship and going to Tatooine, what if it’s Vader leaving Obi-Wan for dead, and leaving the planet first?

In ROTS, Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead on Mustafar. How about Vader now does the same to Obi-Wan?
It could be carefully edited like this:

Vader’s helmet is sliced open /
“Goodbye, Darth” /
Delete the extra shots of Vader walking slowly with no dialogue /
Vader kneels down and yells “Obi-Wan!” /
Use the shot of Vader’s hand slamming into the ground /
Flipped shot of the ground breaking, so that it matches correctly with where Obi-Wan is & where the camera angle should be /
Obi-Wan falls /
Rocks fall down on top of him straight away - no further input from Vader - no need for him to be standing at the edge /
Relocate audio used earlier for the overhead shot of Vader “Did you truly think that you could defeat me? You have failed” /
As Vader speaks, do a slow, steady zoom-in on Vader, so it’s a bit different to what was shown in the episode /
Vader leaves the planet (would need to find a good shot of Vader’s shuttle flying in space) /
Obi-Wan has the visions of Luke and Leia, inspiring him to go on / Obi-Wan frees himself, leaves the planet, and goes into hyperspace (no visions of Luke whilst in the starship, to accommodate the removal of the awful Tatooine sequences in the sixth episode).

What do you think?

I think it defeats the purpose of the line in EP IV. Therefore he would’ve been the victor of the last encounter which defeats „…i was but the learner…“. So it’s wether a question of canon or non-canon editing.

There’s ways to interpret that, though it would be better if there was a shot of an injured Vader walking back to his ship to really sell the point that he barely survived the encounter and needed to fix his suit, to the point of not even doing a confirm kill on Obi-Wan under the rubble (maybe you could add his hard breathing during shots of Vader walking to give the idea that he’s struggling). Combine that with the escape on Jabiim, assuming that’s still going to be part of this edit (emphasized by the flashback sequence showing that he still is being taught by Kenobi even now), and there’s certainly enough there to give the impression that Vader considered himself a learner in this scenario.

It makes Obi-Wan being stuck under the rocks a move out of desperation rather than a true final pin on their confrontation. Because the alternative is what happens in the show where Vader just assumes he killed Obi-Wan and foolishly goes to leave the planet, making him look incompetent as he seems to consistently give Kenobi ‘outs’ to escape; once on Mapuzo and once here.

Post
#1492511
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

Miche said:

NFBisms said:

I like Reva though! I’m actually trying to find a way to include her a bit more as this goes on without it feeling out of left field for who’s mostly been a background player

Why do you like the character? Also, out of curiosity why shift the focus onto a secondary role. I personally found her as stuck up, ill headed, guetto stereotypical want to be baddy. Not sure why anyone would want to include even more screen time.

The problem with her moreso is she serves a specific purpose in the story, that of being the impetus that sets the events of the show in motion, but the way she goes about it and gets involved require so much mental hoop-jumping to justify that it becomes nonsensical. Couple that with the fact that she is overrepresented as a character whose actions effect almost every major character in the OT and yet she exists ONLY in this show makes her come off as a fanfiction character rather than a utilitarian function of the story, someone to be admired as a prop by the writers rather than be genuine part of what’s going on without overstating it.

Even her creator in an interview said that he initially believed the only natural conclusion for her in the story was to die because her purpose exists solely here, yet Disney couldn’t even help themselves not to sequel bait for a second season on this supposedly “limited series” before it was released. So for her character, I’d suggest taking a cue from George:

“ It’s stylistically designed to be that way and you can’t undo that. But we can diminish the effects of it.”

You can’t remove her completely because she’s integral to later events, but de-emphasizing her role in how Leia gets kidnapped and why Obi-Wan leaves goes a great deal towards making her significantly more tolerable in the narrative. If she was just an Inquisitor who stood out above the rest rather than, effectively, a tertiary protagonist of the show, I would have appreciated her role much more.

Post
#1492393
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

NFBisms said:

I like Reva though! I’m actually trying to find a way to include her a bit more as this goes on without it feeling out of left field for who’s mostly been a background player

This is why I suggested showing them getting off the ship since I think Reva and the 5th Brother get off before the GI? It gives us a bit more time to notice her before going straight to the cantina scene where the GI is fully revealed to us after the mysterious footsteps.

Post
#1492380
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

yotsuya said:
But the PT makes it even more clear that a Jedi should not just indiscriminately kill. Anakin knew this when he had Count Dooku at his mercy. But Palpatine egged him on to do it.

Circumstances are quite a bit different between capturing an enemy combatant in a war so he can stand trial, and letting a dictator who has the backing of an entire empire behind him live, who you know will continue to kill and destroy in the future. If Windu let Palpatine live, would that have been smart too? When Anakin said he must stand trial, it wasn’t him pleading for Windu to do “the Jedi thing,” but a desperate attempt to keep him alive so he can learn his secrets.

I just think it’s incredibly silly to believe that it’s the Jedi way to let people go in these circumstances. The Jedi no longer have a judicial system to imprison their enemies. They are compassionate and willing to give second chances, but Vader straight up told Obi-Wan that he is unapologetically evil. It makes Obi-Wan directly responsible for every murder Vader commits from this point on even more than when he left him on Mustafar, where there was plausibility that Anakin was going to die from his injuries.

Post
#1492314
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Agreed. I’m all for there being nuance to Obi-Wan’s feelings towards Vader, but all of his dialogue to Luke is about dehumanizing Vader, “he’s more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.” It makes it clear that he believes the man he knew was dead forever, something this show directly names but then decides to let him live in the end anyway because they have to fight again in ten years on the Death Star. So lazy.

Post
#1492291
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ABANDONED]
Time

I don’t think the Nari scene is necessary, since it’s main point is to show that Kenobi himself has fallen into depression and has become jaded about everything, willing to abandon his moral conscience out of cowardice borne of his PTSD, which doesn’t seem to be as much at the forefront of this edit. This Obi-Wan is more practical, I feel, but driven by his sense of duty more than anything. There’s hints of his having become unbalanced (his inability to communicate with Qui-Gon, for example), but that’s more of a side thing than the main point.

The only other useful thing about that scene is setting the idea up about Obi-Wan burying his sabers in the sand, but I don’t think it’s that big of a stretch to just cut to him retrieving them once he’s resolved to leave like in the edit.

Really, Nari as a character was so mishandled because they decided to show us him through the Inquisitors’ POV rather than his own. If there was a scene of him heading to Tatooine or giving any explanation of the journey he’d been on since Order 66, I’d probably feel better about leaving it in since it’d be set up better. As is, I think his appearance only really works in this context via the Inquisitor scene in the cantina.

Post
#1492156
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

henzINNIT said:

I have contributed to the tangent so my bad if I have derailed things somewhat. I think it did originally tie in to this show, how the last duel in OWK ended, and whether Obi-Wan walking away after defeating Vader makes sense. I don’t believe it does, but that is no doubt influenced by my reading of Ben’s intentions in the OT. If I was to buy in to the notion that killing Vader is just not a jedi thing to do, the resolution in OWK works I guess, but that leaves me wondering if perhaps this was also the prefered outcome in Ben’s mind for ROTJ too: Luke messes up Vader’s suit, says ‘goodbye Darth’ and walks away with a moral victory, leaving Vader free to oppress the galaxy for another decade.

Well, the Death Star explosion would’ve blown Vader up, so I guess he was just hoping the Rebels would do the job for Luke?

That assumption of death why I kind of wanted Vader to shut down his suit/cut himself off from the force temporarily to make Ben think he was dead this time. Just wait until Kenobi is a few light years away before he re-activates and heads back to Mustafar. I would’ve appreciated that trick, to show that Vader is learning more control.

At the same time though, I think it’s out of character for Vader to play dead. I think he’d think it’s beneath him. He’d rather go down fighting as a true warrior and Sith than pretend to die just to live another day.