Sign In

Kaweebo

User Group
Members
Join date
14-Dec-2015
Last activity
14-Aug-2022
Posts
77

Post History

Post
#1495920
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

Kaweebo said:

It’s just a shame because we will never get a do-over. This show is the ‘definitive’ version of these events. The only way out is to ignore it even happened. I can’t help but be upset.

For what it’s worth there is a fairly decent Kenobi novel written by John Jackson Miller that tells a much smaller scaled story but still hits a lot of the grief and trauma Ben is dealing with.

Oh sure, I read that back when it came out. But a book is never gonna have the same appeal as a live-action show, naturally.

Post
#1495032
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

NFBisms said:

I was actually feeling the same thing tbh! I think like most of my edit ideas I start from Wouldn’t It Be Cool If and I’ll eventually start reeling it back after I realize it wouldn’t fully work the way I want it to.


If anyone hasn’t noticed, I’m ON HOLD for now. On top of the Leia thing, a lot of my tinkering so far has been just that; tinkering. im in this, perhaps selfishly, more for the creative process than actually getting a final edit

I would still like to do a full edit, but as I’ve gone along recently, after a certain point, I felt like I was just going through the motions of the narrative too close to as originally presented. And since I want to use the opening’s tone as a guide, the story remaining action-adventure oriented hasn’t been inspiring me. (Skipping Leia’s intro only exacerbates it even).

I wanted to take a step back and rethink my approach to the material, and find a more cerebral/emotional throughline than just The Rescue. I also don’t feel in great company with people that want less Reva, or less Leia - no offense to anyone that describes for less toxic reasons - that’s been putting me off it too.

Right now, I’m thinking about overhauling to introduce Vader earlier to ground the narrative in the more interpersonal chess game. Otherwise, it’s just Obi-Wan versus some baddies, until it isn’t. This most likely involves reinstating Reva’s orchestration (sorry to anyone that hates that) but idk, the sparse nature of the tone I’m going for feels shallow without tangible driving forces established in some way.

I do fundamentally disagree with the idea that Reva orchestrates everything, but I don’t begrudge you doing what you think is best. At worst, this isn’t the edit for me and that’s fine. I’ll still give it a watch because I am still interested in how you handle things.

Post
#1494002
Topic
Obi-Wan Kenobi Redux Ideas Thread
Time

There’s definitely good ideas there but imo, the guy didn’t go far enough. Reva is still the one who orchestrated the plan to kidnap Kenobi and thus puts him and his connection to the Organas on the Empire’s radar, Leia still knows who Obi-Wan is rather than just his pseudonym of Ben and Vader still does the really stupid thing of having the whole Star Destroyer give up the chase on the Path ship just to sit outside the planet where he and Obi-Wan have their final duel.

Even the changes he made to how the scene on Mapuzo ends still doesn’t really work all that well because Vader still lets him go only to get enraged when Reva fails to catch him later on Nur. If he wants Obi-Wan at ‘full power,’ he’s still not there even at the Inquisitorous headquarters. It just comes off really sloppy (also the line about the Inquisitorius HQ not having shields is still present, despite contradicting Jedi: Fallen Order.)

Further, the final duel between Kenobi and Vader still doesn’t work even if Qui-Gon tells him he’s the Chosen One. One, this contradicts Star Wars: Rebels where it is made explicitly clear that Obi-Wan considers Luke to be the Chosen One instead, but it also still doesn’t explain why Obi-Wan is adamant that Luke be willing to kill Anakin later on. It makes way more sense if Obi-Wan believes that Anakin should die but gets prevented from doing so.

While I think this would be kind of tacky (and just to keep this sort of on-brand for the thread), I’d almost rather Obi-Wan get a Force vision of Luke as a Jedi facing Vader in RotJ or something as a reason why he lets Vader live, ultimately deciding that it’s not his destiny to kill him. Again, it’s tacky but still works 10x better than not at all, because the alternative is he doesn’t kill him out of a personal unwillingness to do so and thus leaves the burden on Luke. At least with this, he could chalk it up to “the will of the Force.” It’d also put slightly more meaning to their meeting at the end of the series as he’s coming face to face with the one he’s ‘seen’ end the conflict once and for all.

I also agree with Pixeljoker about the music choices, there were too many callbacks pulled directly from the movies that just don’t work and would have been better silent. The best thing the edit does is cut Reva out before she becomes egregious by the last episode and does what she does on Tatooine, which is easily the worst part of the show for me. Otherwise it falls quite a bit short of what I’d want out of a ‘perfect’ edit.

Post
#1493650
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

yotsuya said:
In comparison to what Trek has done, no Star Wars fan has anything to complain about.

I agree on principle as a casual ST fan myself who hates Discovery and Picard (jury’s still out on Strange New Worlds), but to me the Obi-Wan show is about as close to a Discovery for me as it can get. But I at least see some common ground on some of the things you complain about, I’m not a fan of a good chunk of the EU either and was okay with seeing it mostly wiped, and I have similar issues with the prequels and TFA. I do like the current Marvel comics runs though (up to a point, I haven’t really caught up in about a year, but the early 2015 stuff was great imo. The Darth Vader comics have all been especially brilliant.)

Post
#1493609
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Yotsuya, do you criticize anything in Star Wars, ever? Or is everything Disney puts out all just good and meaningful to you? I’m genuinely curious to know if there’s anything in Star Wars from, let’s say, the past twenty years, that you genuinely dislike?

It’s just weird to me that you’re on this forum of all places, where the conceit is that Star Wars has been mishandled but could be improved in the editing room like ANH was, yet you seem to think everything that’s been released has been flawless in every way.

Post
#1492794
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

I still maintain my criticism of the character and her place in the story even if I disagree with certain other users on things like acting, performance, etc. And obviously no one deserves to get hate for anything superficial in the real world regardless of how anyone may personally feel about their role in a production. Make no mistake, my issue is a writing one, not anything else.

This is your edit NFB and I trust given the decisions you’ve made so far that you’ll find a way to smartly integrate everything in a way that matches the quality of other shows like BCS and BB.

Post
#1492533
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

Phase3 said:

Kaweebo said:

There’s ways to interpret that, though it would be better if there was a shot of an injured Vader walking back to his ship to really sell the point that he barely survived the encounter and needed to fix his suit, to the point of not even doing a confirm kill on Obi-Wan under the rubble (maybe you could add his hard breathing during shots of Vader walking to give the idea that he’s struggling). Combine that with the escape on Jabiim, assuming that’s still going to be part of this edit (emphasized by the flashback sequence showing that he still is being taught by Kenobi even now), and there’s certainly enough there to give the impression that Vader considered himself a learner in this scenario.

It makes Obi-Wan being stuck under the rocks a move out of desperation rather than a true final pin on their confrontation. Because the alternative is what happens in the show where Vader just assumes he killed Obi-Wan and foolishly goes to leave the planet, making him look incompetent as he seems to consistently give Kenobi ‘outs’ to escape; once on Mapuzo and once here.

I 100% agree with you! If it’s okay with you, can I use your idea of a shot of Vader walking back to his shuttle, with audio of him struggling to breathe?

Cheers,

You don’t need my permission, I’m just bouncing ideas off of what you came up with lol

Post
#1492526
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

CMMAP said:

Phase3 said:

Would you consider an alternate ending to the show?
I was thinking about the following:
During the second duel between Obi-Wan and Vader, instead of Obi-Wan walking away, getting into his starship and going to Tatooine, what if it’s Vader leaving Obi-Wan for dead, and leaving the planet first?

In ROTS, Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead on Mustafar. How about Vader now does the same to Obi-Wan?
It could be carefully edited like this:

Vader’s helmet is sliced open /
“Goodbye, Darth” /
Delete the extra shots of Vader walking slowly with no dialogue /
Vader kneels down and yells “Obi-Wan!” /
Use the shot of Vader’s hand slamming into the ground /
Flipped shot of the ground breaking, so that it matches correctly with where Obi-Wan is & where the camera angle should be /
Obi-Wan falls /
Rocks fall down on top of him straight away - no further input from Vader - no need for him to be standing at the edge /
Relocate audio used earlier for the overhead shot of Vader “Did you truly think that you could defeat me? You have failed” /
As Vader speaks, do a slow, steady zoom-in on Vader, so it’s a bit different to what was shown in the episode /
Vader leaves the planet (would need to find a good shot of Vader’s shuttle flying in space) /
Obi-Wan has the visions of Luke and Leia, inspiring him to go on / Obi-Wan frees himself, leaves the planet, and goes into hyperspace (no visions of Luke whilst in the starship, to accommodate the removal of the awful Tatooine sequences in the sixth episode).

What do you think?

I think it defeats the purpose of the line in EP IV. Therefore he would’ve been the victor of the last encounter which defeats „…i was but the learner…“. So it’s wether a question of canon or non-canon editing.

There’s ways to interpret that, though it would be better if there was a shot of an injured Vader walking back to his ship to really sell the point that he barely survived the encounter and needed to fix his suit, to the point of not even doing a confirm kill on Obi-Wan under the rubble (maybe you could add his hard breathing during shots of Vader walking to give the idea that he’s struggling). Combine that with the escape on Jabiim, assuming that’s still going to be part of this edit (emphasized by the flashback sequence showing that he still is being taught by Kenobi even now), and there’s certainly enough there to give the impression that Vader considered himself a learner in this scenario.

It makes Obi-Wan being stuck under the rocks a move out of desperation rather than a true final pin on their confrontation. Because the alternative is what happens in the show where Vader just assumes he killed Obi-Wan and foolishly goes to leave the planet, making him look incompetent as he seems to consistently give Kenobi ‘outs’ to escape; once on Mapuzo and once here.

Post
#1492511
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

Miche said:

NFBisms said:

I like Reva though! I’m actually trying to find a way to include her a bit more as this goes on without it feeling out of left field for who’s mostly been a background player

Why do you like the character? Also, out of curiosity why shift the focus onto a secondary role. I personally found her as stuck up, ill headed, guetto stereotypical want to be baddy. Not sure why anyone would want to include even more screen time.

The problem with her moreso is she serves a specific purpose in the story, that of being the impetus that sets the events of the show in motion, but the way she goes about it and gets involved require so much mental hoop-jumping to justify that it becomes nonsensical. Couple that with the fact that she is overrepresented as a character whose actions effect almost every major character in the OT and yet she exists ONLY in this show makes her come off as a fanfiction character rather than a utilitarian function of the story, someone to be admired as a prop by the writers rather than be genuine part of what’s going on without overstating it.

Even her creator in an interview said that he initially believed the only natural conclusion for her in the story was to die because her purpose exists solely here, yet Disney couldn’t even help themselves not to sequel bait for a second season on this supposedly “limited series” before it was released. So for her character, I’d suggest taking a cue from George:

“ It’s stylistically designed to be that way and you can’t undo that. But we can diminish the effects of it.”

You can’t remove her completely because she’s integral to later events, but de-emphasizing her role in how Leia gets kidnapped and why Obi-Wan leaves goes a great deal towards making her significantly more tolerable in the narrative. If she was just an Inquisitor who stood out above the rest rather than, effectively, a tertiary protagonist of the show, I would have appreciated her role much more.

Post
#1492393
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

NFBisms said:

I like Reva though! I’m actually trying to find a way to include her a bit more as this goes on without it feeling out of left field for who’s mostly been a background player

This is why I suggested showing them getting off the ship since I think Reva and the 5th Brother get off before the GI? It gives us a bit more time to notice her before going straight to the cantina scene where the GI is fully revealed to us after the mysterious footsteps.

Post
#1492380
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

yotsuya said:
But the PT makes it even more clear that a Jedi should not just indiscriminately kill. Anakin knew this when he had Count Dooku at his mercy. But Palpatine egged him on to do it.

Circumstances are quite a bit different between capturing an enemy combatant in a war so he can stand trial, and letting a dictator who has the backing of an entire empire behind him live, who you know will continue to kill and destroy in the future. If Windu let Palpatine live, would that have been smart too? When Anakin said he must stand trial, it wasn’t him pleading for Windu to do “the Jedi thing,” but a desperate attempt to keep him alive so he can learn his secrets.

I just think it’s incredibly silly to believe that it’s the Jedi way to let people go in these circumstances. The Jedi no longer have a judicial system to imprison their enemies. They are compassionate and willing to give second chances, but Vader straight up told Obi-Wan that he is unapologetically evil. It makes Obi-Wan directly responsible for every murder Vader commits from this point on even more than when he left him on Mustafar, where there was plausibility that Anakin was going to die from his injuries.

Post
#1492314
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Agreed. I’m all for there being nuance to Obi-Wan’s feelings towards Vader, but all of his dialogue to Luke is about dehumanizing Vader, “he’s more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.” It makes it clear that he believes the man he knew was dead forever, something this show directly names but then decides to let him live in the end anyway because they have to fight again in ten years on the Death Star. So lazy.

Post
#1492291
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

I don’t think the Nari scene is necessary, since it’s main point is to show that Kenobi himself has fallen into depression and has become jaded about everything, willing to abandon his moral conscience out of cowardice borne of his PTSD, which doesn’t seem to be as much at the forefront of this edit. This Obi-Wan is more practical, I feel, but driven by his sense of duty more than anything. There’s hints of his having become unbalanced (his inability to communicate with Qui-Gon, for example), but that’s more of a side thing than the main point.

The only other useful thing about that scene is setting the idea up about Obi-Wan burying his sabers in the sand, but I don’t think it’s that big of a stretch to just cut to him retrieving them once he’s resolved to leave like in the edit.

Really, Nari as a character was so mishandled because they decided to show us him through the Inquisitors’ POV rather than his own. If there was a scene of him heading to Tatooine or giving any explanation of the journey he’d been on since Order 66, I’d probably feel better about leaving it in since it’d be set up better. As is, I think his appearance only really works in this context via the Inquisitor scene in the cantina.

Post
#1492156
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

henzINNIT said:

I have contributed to the tangent so my bad if I have derailed things somewhat. I think it did originally tie in to this show, how the last duel in OWK ended, and whether Obi-Wan walking away after defeating Vader makes sense. I don’t believe it does, but that is no doubt influenced by my reading of Ben’s intentions in the OT. If I was to buy in to the notion that killing Vader is just not a jedi thing to do, the resolution in OWK works I guess, but that leaves me wondering if perhaps this was also the prefered outcome in Ben’s mind for ROTJ too: Luke messes up Vader’s suit, says ‘goodbye Darth’ and walks away with a moral victory, leaving Vader free to oppress the galaxy for another decade.

Well, the Death Star explosion would’ve blown Vader up, so I guess he was just hoping the Rebels would do the job for Luke?

That assumption of death why I kind of wanted Vader to shut down his suit/cut himself off from the force temporarily to make Ben think he was dead this time. Just wait until Kenobi is a few light years away before he re-activates and heads back to Mustafar. I would’ve appreciated that trick, to show that Vader is learning more control.

At the same time though, I think it’s out of character for Vader to play dead. I think he’d think it’s beneath him. He’d rather go down fighting as a true warrior and Sith than pretend to die just to live another day.

Post
#1492141
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

Editing is much tighter on the Inquisitor scene, though I do think there should be an establishing shot of them exiting the ship before we just cut to them in the bar. Especially when Reva comes into play a bit more later in the show. I get why you edited them walking out because it just highlights how ridiculous they look, but it did feel a bit rushed, almost like they teleported to the cantina.

The editing on Nari and him getting strung up is good, as is the last time Kenobi goes to the Lars homestead. Very impactful. I’m enjoying this so far very much.

Post
#1491910
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

Just watched the first twenty minutes. As you said, there are a few spots to clean, the most notable one to me being when Obi-Wan is confronted by the bounty hunters. For the most part, I have only small things to say. The biggest one I feel would make sense is to keep some of Leia’s lines during Kenobi’s Force vision, specifically the “My father will rescue me! He’ll send a whole army!” part, since you’ve kept her lines about the army later.

Another scene Id suggest keeping is Obi-Wan getting the toy from the Jawa. I think it’d slot nicely on the last day before Owen throws it back at him, like in the original show. As is, the toy feels kind of random.

Apart from that, other than some choppy editing here and there (the Inquisitors scene, some transitions), it mostly works and it’s far better than the actual show Disney gave us. Definitely looking forward to more.

Post
#1491864
Topic
OLD BEN: An Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan Edit [ON HOLD]
Time

This sounds absolutely genius. It’s not quite the direction I wished this show would have gone (in my opinion, baby Leia should never have met Obi-Wan) but the way you’ve trimmed the fat and worst of the excess in establishing why Ben leaves Tatooine is incredibly creative. I can’t wait to see the results in action.

Post
#1491847
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

yotsuya said:
To be frank, every time they add to the Star Wars universe (and this is since 1977) there are always some people who hate the new additions and think it changes things the wrong way. That happened to TESB, ROTJ, the PT, the ST, Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance, Book of Boba Fett, and this series. I think the only one that hasn’t had that reaction was The Mandalorian season 1. It is a tiring pattern. Just let the franchise grow and enjoy what you want of it. If that is just the films, great. If that is just the original 1977 film, great. Some of us are enjoying the expanding Star Wars universe and actually like all the additions.

That only works if it makes sense and doesn’t irreparably make the story worse. There is no justification you can give for the Empire knowing the Organas are Jedi sympathizers and not immediately taking care of them; no, blowing up their planet ten years later is not the same thing. No, there is no reason the Empire wouldn’t immediately take them out or place them on 24/7 surveillance and you can’t just write the script for the writers to make it make sense, anymore than you can do it with Obi-Wan letting Vader live or Leia never mentioning to Luke ever that she knew Kenobi. Just saying “maybe this happened off-screen” or “maybe this character was thinking this” is not a substitute for good storytelling, which is all I care about. Additions that only complicate the narrative rather than creating actual, meaningful context does nothing but dilute the story.

I like to think I’m very forgiving of SW, I like the prequels even though I know they are bad movies, because I appreciate the world they created even if the execution wasn’t very good. Hell, I’m even willing to forgive a lot of the stuff in the sequel trilogy despite it not going anywhere near the direction I wished it would and being terrible in many ways.

But pissing in my ear and calling it good writing is just annoying, especially when I’ve got you on the sidelines cheerleading, “actually, their piss in your ear is actually good because in my headcanon, blah blah blah…”

I will enjoy what I want of the saga. I’m also gonna complain about the stuff I do not like. If you don’t like my opinion, stop replying to me.