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Jay

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22-Feb-2003
Last activity
1-Jul-2025
Posts
2,437

Post History

Post
#1208773
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

I just mean that focusing on the hyperbolizers does nothing to further intelligent discussion. People shouldn’t swear off certain ideas just because some people are bad at expressing them.

Pushing back against these loud and harmful types seems like a separate issue to me.

Gotcha. I don’t want to focus on them, but we have to deal with them when they start to affect the lives of real people.

Post
#1208755
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

There are stupid people on both sides and don’t think focusing in on them is terribly helpful in general; if anything it just makes things worse.

Labeling them as “stupid people” makes it easy to dismiss them, until you realize they’ve achieved notoriety, power, and an ability to shift the discourse, and ultimately the direction of society.

Jeebus said:

Jay said:

It seems like anything to the right of socialism is being cast as alt-right in an attempt to lump it all together.

Woah, am I thinking of a different America or something?

There’s some hyperbole in there, but the general sentiment stands. Some of the stuff being labeled as alt-right is just regular old conservatism (and even classical liberalism) that isn’t far left enough for the hard left to consider within the bounds of reason.

Post
#1208746
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

I used to be fairly hard left, but after seeing the massive discrepancies between mainstream reporting about some of these supposedly “alt-right” personalities and what the subjects of their articles actually say and do, I’ve started to wonder what other things we’re being told that are complete horseshit, or at least are being run through a left-leaning political filter. It seems like anything to the right of socialism is being cast as alt-right in an attempt to lump it all together.

I’m not a Trump supporter by any means, but holy hell have liberals lost their minds since he was elected.

Well this explains the SJW crack the other day I guess.

Beyond that you seem to be making a sweeping generalization about left-leaning political filters?

I’ve been exposed to a ton of radical nonsense in the tech industry lately. Saw a guy on Twitter get absolutely roasted by a fairly prominent feminist in the tech industry because his new book title had the word “craftsman” in it. This guy wasn’t a native English speaker and was absolutely beaming about his accomplishment of having published a programming book, and this woman with 40k followers ripped him to shreds and demanded everyone boycott the book because it didn’t say “craftsperson”.

This is the dude’s livelihood and she’s going to hit him that hard over a single word? Why not use it as an opportunity to have a dialog about it and maybe get him to change it for subsequent print runs (or patch the electronic versions)?

I always have time for a discussion about diversity and how some words can be exclusionary, but I don’t have time for hitting regular people in their bank account over something so petty. It’s out of control.

Post
#1208734
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

I recommend anyone reading articles about Peterson actually read or listen to Peterson instead. I don’t agree with everything he says (like a lot of the religious-based theory), but is that a reason to discount him completely? The biggest issue with discourse today is that we throw away entire people because we don’t agree with one or two things they say.

He’s been portrayed as an anti-Semite (despite lecturing extensively about the dangers of fascism as it relates to the Holocaust and the lessons to be learned from it), a misogynist (despite presenting some of his most touching points while talking about how much he treasures his wife and daughter), a fascist (despite his entire platform being free speech and vehemently anti-fascist), and a host of other things that don’t align with what he says.

The Vibe interview, which was heavily edited for broadcast, made Peterson look crazy. At least watch the unedited version (available on YouTube) before coming to any conclusions. I don’t agree that he was saying women are hypocrites for wearing makeup; he simply acknowledged what makeup is at its core (something that enhances attractiveness by simulating good health through clear skin and replicating aspects of sexual response, like rosy cheeks) and why that might confuse some men. He often answers with “I don’t know” when presented with baiting questions, which apparently is a crime based on the ways interviewers react.

There’s a huge gap between what Peterson says and what others say he says. Disagree with his ideas all you want, but don’t form your opinions about people based entirely on what other people say about them, especially with so much material freely available.

I recommend his more recent interviews with Dave Rubin. They’re relatively relaxed discussions. I watched one just yesterday where Peterson admits his acerbic style hasn’t benefited him in many cases, so he’s working on his delivery. He’s had a tendency to go after his interviewers pretty hard in the past, though frankly I think most of them deserved it for asking terrible questions.

I used to be fairly hard left, but after seeing the massive discrepancies between mainstream reporting about some of these supposedly “alt-right” personalities and what the subjects of their articles actually say and do, I’ve started to wonder what other things we’re being told that are complete horseshit, or at least are being run through a left-leaning political filter. It seems like anything to the right of socialism is being cast as alt-right in an attempt to lump it all together.

I’m not a Trump supporter by any means, but holy hell have liberals lost their minds since he was elected.

Post
#1208494
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

darthrush said:

I just wanted to say that I really like Ash’s post about his beliefs on gun control. Everything sounds very reasonable and doesn’t call for the unreachable goal of banning all guns in America.

There’s a reasonable middle ground to be had if politicians could focus on finding it rather than coming at the issue from the extremes.

Of course, that wouldn’t keep the public enraged and distracted, would it?

suspiciouscoffee said:

The way I see it, if you aren’t using your guns to make the bourgeoisie ruling class tremble, then what’s the point of having them at all?

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I agree regardless.

Post
#1208493
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

Some gay people at my school constantly brag about how gay they are (mostly to eachother), and it’s extremely annoying. It’s like they think people like me actually care that they’re gay.

If I were gay and I heard someone talking like this, I’d certainly brag more, because I’d find it extremely annoying to listen to how annoyed that person was that I was talking about being gay.

It comes off as “you can be gay, just don’t bother me with your gayness.” Similar to how chyron is bothered by “flamboyant men.”

So I’m unreasonable for being annoyed by people ramble on with eachother about “I’m more gay than you” “No I’m more gay because this” “No I’m so gay I did this.” Okay.

I’m not going to be rude to these people and tell them to shut up, but I won’t start caring about how gay they are. Because I honestly don’t care.

They aren’t talking out of liberation. They just think they’re funny/interesting, but they’re not.

Did they ask you to care?

Isn’t that what attention-seeking behavior is at its core?

Isn’t it hard for you to make that judgement solely based on the reporting of one person who may or may not be biased?

No more difficult than it is for you to assume the opposite, so I guess we’re both equally uninformed 😛

Post
#1208419
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

Some gay people at my school constantly brag about how gay they are (mostly to eachother), and it’s extremely annoying. It’s like they think people like me actually care that they’re gay.

If I were gay and I heard someone talking like this, I’d certainly brag more, because I’d find it extremely annoying to listen to how annoyed that person was that I was talking about being gay.

It comes off as “you can be gay, just don’t bother me with your gayness.” Similar to how chyron is bothered by “flamboyant men.”

So I’m unreasonable for being annoyed by people ramble on with eachother about “I’m more gay than you” “No I’m more gay because this” “No I’m so gay I did this.” Okay.

I’m not going to be rude to these people and tell them to shut up, but I won’t start caring about how gay they are. Because I honestly don’t care.

They aren’t talking out of liberation. They just think they’re funny/interesting, but they’re not.

Did they ask you to care?

Isn’t that what attention-seeking behavior is at its core?

Post
#1208358
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

One of my best friends growing up was a 50-year-old lesbian. It’s all good with me.

I really don’t think you have to say this in order to make your point. You sound like one of those white dudes who says “I have lots of black friends!”

I knew I’d get this response from someone; figures that it’s you. I don’t really care what you think I sound like.

That’s fine. I’m not saying you’re a homophobe, I’m saying there was zero reason to throw that sentence in.

My reasoning was to add a bit more depth to my own story and experiences with gay people, particularly since a young male preteen hanging out with a 50-year-old lesbian in the 80s goes beyond the typical “some of my best friends are [whatever]” statement.

I tire of the virtue signaling performed by whites being offended on behalf of their minority friends. It’s another form of “some of my best friends are [whatever]” and I’m always surprised when the hypocrisy escapes them.

Post
#1208346
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

This is the part of your post I have a problem with:

but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking

Unless by “someone”, you mean “the audience”, no. Just no.

Who is this “someone”? How did they get the job of policing content for appropriate diversity? What are their own biases that might influence their objectivity? Must this person be a minority? Or perhaps a committee that’s fully representative of the population? Do we put hard rules in place, i.e. 13% of the population is black, so 13% of your characters must be black? Do we use the U.S. population as the benchmark?

That all sounds absurd, of course, but that’s what happens when you make this sort of thing official and place the responsibility on someone in a corporation to do it. Lots of rules and regulations and HR people.

I don’t know why it has to be extremely bureaucratic in that way. It could be anyone, an editor, another writer they trust, a friend, the audience, whoever. Again it’s not about forcing, it’s not about quotas. It’s about making sure things aren’t always completely white and male with no reason.

I’m all for seeking feedback, as long as changes aren’t forced on the artist. Placing it in the editor’s hands might be pushing it for that reason.

Post
#1208344
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

I suspect the reason is that people write about what they know and most writers old and experienced enough to be writing big movies or TV shows probably don’t “know” diversity so they don’t naturally write about it. Since most writers are men, they write men more. That’s my assumption.

If it’s a story about being black for example, I’d get why a white writer might not want to go there. But if they’re skin color isn’t that important to their story, there’s not a great reason why not.

Because you might get an army of SJWs telling you that you don’t know how to write black characters and you should quit (or lose) your job over it.

Post
#1208339
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

I started writing books and stories for myself, literally just for myself to read, mainly because I got tired of finding characters in other media un-relatable to me, even if that other media is really good and high quality. If you want diverse stories to be told, support artists that are telling those stories. Don’t go to the artists that aren’t.

Exactly. Or even better, write your own and put them out there. Digital distribution has made it much easier for smaller teams and even individuals to get their material in front of a wide audience.

Post
#1208336
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

One of my best friends growing up was a 50-year-old lesbian. It’s all good with me.

I really don’t think you have to say this in order to make your point. You sound like one of those white dudes who says “I have lots of black friends!”

I knew I’d get this response from someone; figures that it’s you. I don’t really care what you think I sound like.

Post
#1208332
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

This is the part of your post I have a problem with:

but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking

Unless by “someone”, you mean “the audience”, no. Just no.

Who is this “someone”? How did they get the job of policing content for appropriate diversity? What are their own biases that might influence their objectivity? Must this person be a minority? Or perhaps a committee that’s fully representative of the population? Do we put hard rules in place, i.e. 13% of the population is black, so 13% of your characters must be black? Do we use the U.S. population as the benchmark?

That all sounds absurd, of course, but that’s what happens when you make this sort of thing official and place the responsibility on someone in a corporation to do it. Lots of rules and regulations and HR people.

Post
#1208322
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that devices designed to kill as efficiently and quickly as possible are “disgusting.”

I don’t think so either, but I guess I should listen to Dr. Jay, he obviously knows more about my emotions than I do.

I never said your feelings were unreasonable; I only called them out as feelings, because that’s what they are. At least you’re admitting “disgusting” is an emotional response and not an objective reality as you claimed initially.

It’s perhaps an emotional descriptor, but it is attached to a purely objective observation (that being guns are designed as killing machines). Guns don’t disgust me. But when I think of them rationally, I’d describe them as disgusting. There’s a distinction there. I don’t think it’s hard to understand why someone might call something objectively repulsive.

I understand the sentiment. It’s just not one based on reason. There’s no such thing as “objectively repulsive”. Guns being repulsive is based on your point of view and is inherently subjective.

Again though, it seems pointless to argue that feelings don’t matter when they are what fuel basically every side of every debate. In my mind it’s odd to descredit an argument because it’s potentially based on emotions when I could just as easily do the same with the arguments on the other side.

And I’d encourage you to do so as much as possible. “But muh guns!” is no more valid than “Guns are disgusting.”

Post
#1208312
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that devices designed to kill as efficiently and quickly as possible are “disgusting.”

I don’t think so either, but I guess I should listen to Dr. Jay, he obviously knows more about my emotions than I do.

I never said your feelings were unreasonable; I only called them out as feelings, because that’s what they are. At least you’re admitting “disgusting” is an emotional response and not an objective reality as you claimed initially.

Post
#1208309
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

suspiciouscoffee said:

Jay said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

but I’ve seen examples where a character’s sexuality was awkwardly inserted without much regard for its relevance to the story.

Yeah, like how my own actual gayness was awkwardly inserted without regard for its “relevance” to the lives of those around me! It’s almost like non-straight people exist on their own whether its relevant to anyone else or not.

Do you tell every person you meet that you’re gay and push it into everyday conversation

No, but some people might because of how incredibly liberating it is just to be able to safely tell people about it after years of closet life. Even then, I can’t think of any times anyone in a comic has just run up to people on the street to tell people how gay they are.

And I get that. All I’m saying is that if it’s in furtherance of the story and/or the artist wants it in there, cool, no problem. They just shouldn’t feel obligated to shoehorn that aspect of a character into the plot because a group of people think they should.

One of my best friends growing up was a 50-year-old lesbian. It’s all good with me.

Post
#1208301
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Guns are inherently disgusting.

If I was speaking purely emotionally…

You are. It sounds like you have conflicting emotions when it comes to guns (disgusting vs. cool) and have decided to indulge one over the other.

That’s not how I interpreted it at all. I think he was saying that his response wasn’t purely emotional while the people who say that guns are exciting and cool are speaking out of pure emotion.

“Disgusting” is not in any way an “objective observation”.

Post
#1208300
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

suspiciouscoffee said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

but I’ve seen examples where a character’s sexuality was awkwardly inserted without much regard for its relevance to the story.

Yeah, like how my own actual gayness was awkwardly inserted without regard for its “relevance” to the lives of those around me! It’s almost like non-straight people exist on their own whether its relevant to anyone else or not.

Do you tell every person you meet that you’re gay and push it into everyday conversation or do you share that part of yourself when it makes sense in your life, i.e. your story?

moviefreakedmind said:

I’d compare awkward insertion of sexuality without relevance to the story to when characters are awkwardly made to have romantic or flirtatious interactions with people of the opposite sex with no regard for its relevance to the story.

Exactly. It applies to straight characters as well.

Post
#1208297
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Knife violence and gun violence is the biggest false equivalence in political discourse these days, with the sole exception of Trump and Hillary being equivalents.

Yep.

Sorry my post adds nothing to the conversation though.

“Yep.” = I agree with you and support your position. No further explanation required.

“Nope.” = I don’t agree, but won’t elaborate, because I might have to engage in logical discourse that requires more thought and effort than I’m willing to provide, and I might not come away feeling like I’ve “won”. However, I still want the attention that posting provides.

I wouldn’t come at you this hard if you hadn’t gone after chyron for similar behavior.

DominicCobb said:

Guns are inherently disgusting.

If I was speaking purely emotionally…

You are. It sounds like you have conflicting emotions when it comes to guns (disgusting vs. cool) and have decided to indulge one over the other.

Post
#1208290
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

The argument, at least when it comes to comics and video games, is the opposite: they’re not progressive enough, or even regressive in their portrayals, especially when it comes to women. I don’t read comics, so I don’t have a strong opinion on that in particular, but I’ve seen examples where a character’s sexuality was awkwardly inserted without much regard for its relevance to the story.

The question is whether the artist has an obligation to modify their stories to increase representation of “underrepresented” groups and promote social and political agendas. I don’t think they do. Go create a comic hero that represents you if you want one.

Post
#1208028
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

I asked how banning scary-looking guns would help and you provided no meaningful response. If anybody should be asking themselves why they even bother, it’s me, not you.

Then don’t bother.

Or you could improve the quality of your posts, or take your own advice, like when you pressed chyron for an answer about his religious beliefs and got all pissy when you didn’t get one right away.

Either way, you present as irrational and hypocritical. If you don’t want to have the debate, fine, but don’t clutter the thread with empty responses because you’re being asked to provide more than snark.