moviefreakedmind said:
Jay said:
moviefreakedmind said:
Jay said:
While there’s more to quality of life than just environmental threats and humans are still better off today than at any other point in history,
Do we have to make this pointless statement every single time we criticize Trump?
Do we need to pointlessly mention how terrible things are the world over every single time we criticize Trump?
I’m criticizing him and others over how they are failing to address what I think is making the world terrible for many of its inhabitants. Stop misrepresenting me. I’ve never posted in this thread and just said, “The world is terrible” and not backed up my statement with examples and evidence that I think supports my claim.
P.S. - Things aren’t terrible.
Are you ever going to bother to address any of the things that I’ve brought up to support my claim? You, more than anyone else in this thread, have consistently refused to have any kind of discussion. I don’t understand how you can claim that others in here are being unproductive when it’s you that says your opinion and refuses to actually defend it or provide any kind of rationale for why you think everyone in here is wrong. You ignore all of my points almost every time. And you do this to everyone else too.
I don’t think I’ve ignored anyone else’s points, at least not intentionally. Yours I gloss over because I don’t think you back up much at all. Most of your claims are little more than complaining based on your overwhelmingly negative perspective that has little to do with reality. Cite policy, cite laws, cite research/data, etc. and you’ll have my attention, but otherwise it mostly reads like doom and gloom. It’s damn depressing.
Feel free to push me on more fact-based, data-driven points if you feel I’m lacking.
I agree climate change is probably the most pressing issue for us as a species and it’s unfortunate that bad politics could end up wrecking the planet.
Unfortunate? It’s not just politicians. It’s primarily to blame on a willfully ignorant population that votes for people like Trump. Even Hillary, although she would’ve been better, was still incredibly weak on environmentalism. There’s also a lot of corporate propaganda in conservative-leaning media that spread outright lies about climate change. I’ve noticed lately that they’re back to spreading the lie that climate change is a total myth. I think it should be illegal to publish fraudulent studies about climate change, kind of like how it’s illegal for tobacco companies to publish fraudulent studies that cigarettes won’t destroy your lungs.
Most voters don’t vote based on a single issue and are primarily concerned with immediate results over future consequences, and I think the economy, immigration, and anti-PC culture took precedence over climate change in the last election for Trump voters (at least some of whom were Obama voters previously).
The immigration issue is something that appeals to ignorant people, willfully or otherwise, are compelled by. Immigration isn’t a problem now. It wasn’t a problem then. Illegal immigration is going down. Obama deported more people than his predecessors. It’s a manufactured issue.
If it’s manufactured, why are people on both sides so fired up about Trump’s immigration policy? There are still millions of undocumented immigrants already here. What do we do about them? As long as their status is up in the air and some people keep coming in illegally (which they are), it will be an issue voters care about.
And Trump is about as PC as you can get. He and his people have their own version of political correctness. Look at their responses to Hamilton’s cast criticizing Pence (Trump even demanded that the theater be a safe space), Samantha Bee’s comment, Kathy Griffin’s stunt, and Michelle Wolfe’s stand-up and tell me I’m wrong.
You’re wrong. Trump’s people are mostly pointing out hypocrisy on the left. Compare responses from the left regarding any insults thrown at Obama and his family versus responses from the left when insults are hurled at Trump — they don’t care about decorum at all when it’s not their guy.
Both parties only have morals when the target is on the other side.
Democrats lost because they had a mediocre platform and the wrong candidate. They need to come out with a rock star in 2020, but with the party going hard left on immigration and pretending that most Americans don’t want secure borders, they’re setting themselves up for another loss.
You actually are right that they had a mediocre platform and the wrong candidate. They tried to have a center-right, status quo platform. They aren’t pretending anything about immigration and borders. I don’t know what Steven Crowder and Candace Owens are saying these days since I don’t follow people like them anymore, but there are no major Democrats that don’t believe in secure borders. It amuses me that you claim that people like me are getting their information from insane fake news media when it’s very, very obvious that your views on the world are coming from right-wing outlets. Hillary Clinton’s platform was for secure borders and extreme vetting for people traveling here from the muslim world. Trump’s platform was ban muslims and build a wall. The side that is pretending that Americans want insane immigration policies is the right wing.
Trump is a salesman. He outsold Hillary while selling the same product. Also, I think most liberals who voted for Hillary did so despite her position on immigration, not because of it. That was her trying to reach across the aisle, though she didn’t need to extend her arm very far.
moviefreakedmind said:
Jay said:
Who has it worse now than before Trump was president?
Undocumented immigrants for sure. American citizens that are children of undocumented immigrants. Muslim Americans, or just Arab Americans regardless of their race. Public-school students thanks to Betsy DeVos. Women in college are getting Title IX protections revoked thanks to her too.
We’ve covered immigration extensively, so I’m not going back there. Other than enforcing current law, Trump’s admin isn’t doing much that’s different from prior administrations. You want to talk about a manufactured issue, it’s Trump’s war on immigrants as portrayed in the media. It’s the same shitshow it’s always been, just a different guy doing the song and dance.
What changes in law or policy have made things worse for Muslims or Arabs? Let’s talk about the “Muslim ban”. What has been the real-world effect of that policy? Not what you think might happen, or could happen. What actually happened as a result?
I don’t know much about what DeVos has done to affect public schools, so I can’t speak to that. Of course she looked like a moron during her confirmation hearings and I’m sure the position is well beyond her level of competence. Title IX is trash though and universities should never have been put on the hook for investigating and punishing students for sex crimes. I’m not crying over that at all.
Jay said:
TV’s Frink said:
Jay said:
moviefreakedmind said:
Jay said:
While there’s more to quality of life than just environmental threats and humans are still better off today than at any other point in history,
Do we have to make this pointless statement every single time we criticize Trump?
Do we need to pointlessly mention how terrible things are the world over every single time we criticize Trump?
P.S. - Things aren’t terrible.
Things are quite terrible for many people now though.
This is always true at any time. Until someone invents free energy and the Star Trek replicator, the world will be a terrible place for some people, but hopefully in ever-decreasing numbers (which has been the general trend throughout history).
Okay, so do we just do nothing? I don’t understand this notion that there will always be suffering so let’s actively do as little as possible to better the lives of our people. I genuinely don’t get it. Maybe you’d feel less complacent if you weren’t a well-to-do white guy.
Did I say do nothing? No. Not once. Not ever. I said the world is better than you make it out to be, and it is. I didn’t say it was perfect and never said we shouldn’t strive for better.
However, that doesn’t mean I’m going to focus on everything that’s broken and walk around chronically depressed waiting for the world to end like you do. If I’m so complacent, please tell me the specific things you’ve done to make the world a better place. You don’t even vote, right?
I grew up in a small town in a family that would probably fit squarely into the lower middle class category. My mommy and daddy didn’t get me into a prestigious school and they didn’t foot the bill when I did go to college (my dad wanted me to join the military, ha), though they did contribute as much as they could afford, and for that I’m grateful. I had some grants to get me started out and relied on loans for the rest. When I graduated and couldn’t find a job in my field (English, mostly looked for copywriting jobs), I taught myself how to code on a computer I bought with a credit card (banks love to throw credit cards at new grads and hook them early). Lots of places wouldn’t even talk to me — despite my supposedly overwhelming white privilege — because I didn’t have the right degree. Everyone I can recall interviewing with was a white guy, and it didn’t seem to do me any favors. I washed windows for a year and a half to pay the bills until I was offered my first “real” job. I’ve excelled at my career because I’m better than most at what I do, and I wasn’t given a free pass because I’m white and male. As tech opportunities have increased, white guys have been matched or even outnumbered by minorities at my recent places of work, and the number of women at my last job was surprising and welcome. My boss was Indian, as were many of my coworkers, and we had a decent number of female engineers and a largely female QA staff. Three out of the four designers on my team were women, none of them originally from the U.S., all of whom I hired directly.
Labeling me privileged and complacent just doesn’t fly.
As for keeping people like Trump from winning, I’d say we abolish the electoral college. The only reason people like it now is because it gives unpopular Republicans a better chance at winning the presidency without having to get the most votes.
I didn’t want Trump to win, but I think the Electoral College did exactly what it was supposed to do: give smaller communities a voice in federal government without being drowned out by major population centers. Not liking the results doesn’t mean the system is broken.
