Jacen

Jaws 19

brimforge said:

....and how or when did they built that very heavy "AT-ST Crusher" - such a thing wouldn't be unnoticed by scouts patrolind the woods ;-)

 ....they had a little special forces training with John Rambo, who always had you thinking, "How the hell did he know that the cop was going to pause under that EXACT tree??"  

fgqb#19nyj said:

The more you start rationalizing the Hoth battle, the more it doesn't make sense. 

 The more you start rationalizing the entirety of The Empire Strikes Back, the more it doesn't make sense.  In fact, the story and plot make less sense than any of the movies, including the prequels....

What's great about Empire though, is it's still freakin' awesome.... and in a nutshell, that is the difference between the OT and the PT.

BlueCardinal said:

I don't know, it kind of makes sense to not have any Imperial ground troops in this battle. The Empire has these huge walkers that are almost impossible to take down, so just let them stomp their way in and take out the shield generator so that Vader & Co. can land. Why risking losing men at this phase of the battle?

Because it's Vader (and by extension, Palpatine).  Since when did these guys ever display a conscience, or military cunning?  Especially about an unlimited renewable resource like Easy-Bake Stormtroopers?

How's that big-ass computer monitor working for you, Ady?

:)

adywan said:

Problem solved ;)

Hopefully this change has not been mentioned yet--

In Jedi, the rancor now casts shadows. It is especially noticeable when it reaches to grab the Gamorrean guard. Nice touch, I have to say.

"Always two there are.... a master and an apprentice."

The Rule of Two was instituted by Darth Bane a thousand years ago, but AFTER the Jedi believed that all of the Sith were destroyed.

So.... unless he has been keeping a secret from the entire Jedi order, how does Yoda know this?!

Just read Bill Hunt's review.

I must say it is quite fair. He points out obvious flaws (edge enhancement Ep I, screwy blurry encoding EP VI, meager HD resolution scans of all six), he expresses his opinion about Lucas's changes (same as ours, only not so hysterical), and underlines that not EVERYTHING was fixed (garbage mattes, saber colors, etc).

Now, given our expectations of nothing less than perfection, his B+ seems high, but given that the way he rates blu-rays is in comparison with all other blu-rays, the B+ seems right in line. He doesn't artificially raise the expectation bar simply because it is Star Wars, which we all seem to think "should" be absolutely dead-on perfect.

TheBoost said:

Jacen said:

I very much like the "Legacy of the Force" series. The rise of Darth Caedus struck me as a good example of how evil does not start out as black, but sort of an off-white. By the time you recognize it as black, it is too late.

I thought that the Boba Fett subplot was also supremely well handled. Karen Traviss turned Fett into a flawed and scarred human being, and as a result, his character was that much more badass, even though he's in his seventies!

Again, I suspect that many fans don't want Fett to be "humanized." To each his own.

I didn't love the humanizing of Boba, but I admit it was interesting to read.

Although with Jacen/Caedus, while the arc had it's ups and downs, I was never able to get over his initial evil act, where he looked into the future and basically said "If I don't commit murder, the plot will never happen!" :)

I agree completely. I wish his "turn" happened later, say in the 2nd or 3rd novel. It was too sudden, even after the subtle build-up in NJO and the Dark Nest trilogy. That said, we knew Jacen Solo was the epitome of pragmatism, therefore it at least made logical sense for this to occur, if not the most plausible sense.

Even Luke commented on "ends justifies the means" pragmatism, which I thought was one of the most brilliant passages in the entire series-- "There are times when the end justifies the means. But when you build an argument based on a whole series of such times, you may find that you've constructed an entire philosophy of evil."

Too bad Luke couldn't see it in his own nephew.

Tyrphanax said:

Jacen said:

I thought that the Boba Fett subplot was also supremely well handled. Karen Traviss turned Fett into a flawed and scarred human being, and as a result, his character was that much more badass, even though he's in his seventies!

You get the hell out RIGHT NOW.

She made him cry. Boba Fett doesn't cry! She flew in the face of every bit of superior Boba Fett canon ever written before her, and she ruined the Mandalorians.

She took Boba and the Mandalorians and then tried to humanize them, make them into pure good guys who give shelter to their most bitter rivals, when it's always been pretty clear that they're more grey (and a dark grey at that sometimes) than white.

 

Boba didn't need to be humanized. That's what was cool about him. He was someone you could identify with regardless of who you were (and this is assuming you read some of the pre-Travissty EU on him). The best thing I've ever read about Boba was him talking to Leia in Jabba's palace, when Jabba gives her to him to do with as he pleases. That's when I knew Boba Fett was the best Star Wars character ever. It explains who he is without explaining who he is, if you get my meaning. That's all that ever needed to be said about him.

Now, thanks to Traviss, he's just another whiner like the PT made Vader.

 

Please note that you are entitled you your opinion, good Sir. I just passionately disagree with it, being a rabid Fett/Mandalorian fan.

Hmph....

Couple of things.....

I never once thought of the Mandos as "good guys" through Traviss. I saw them as pretty much amoral, at least how the Jedi define morality. From their own (Traviss-written) point of view, Mando morality is very complex, and definitely at total odds with the Jedi (and much of the rest of the galaxy.) But from within their own reality, there are good guys (adherence and responsibility to the honest, macho, plain-spoken Mandalorian culture) and bad guys (liars, wimps and traitors to the Mandalorian credo). Don't forget, Boba Fett himself, at the beginning of this novel is considered a "bad guy" by the Mandalorians themselves, even though he is Mandalore! He already had the mercenary part down pat, but what was compelling to me was his gradual embracing of Mandalorian responsibility and finally his owning of Mandalorian heritage, therefore transforming into a "good guy" (by Mando standards). Definitely still a "bad guy" to the Jedi, including Jaina Solo.

Boba Fett cried. Yes he did. A character who never cries bores me. In that situation, they are no longer a character, they are simply a force that I cannot identify with as a reader. There is no dramatic tension, in other words. In fact, when Boba finally cries, every badass thing he ever did in the Bounty Hunter trilogy, in Empire, in the Leia short story you refer to (I agree, it kicked ass)...... all of these badass things became THAT MUCH MORE BADASS, because he finally broke, and I empathized with him. When you empathize with a character, their accomplishments become that much more meaningful.

I very much like the "Legacy of the Force" series. The rise of Darth Caedus struck me as a good example of how evil does not start out as black, but sort of an off-white. By the time you recognize it as black, it is too late.

Though I suspect many Star Wars fans hate it for that for that very reason. To each his own.

I thought that the Boba Fett subplot was also supremely well handled. Karen Traviss turned Fett into a flawed and scarred human being, and as a result, his character was that much more badass, even though he's in his seventies!

Again, I suspect that many fans don't want Fett to be "humanized." To each his own.

=o)

Gaffer Tape said:

Eh, I'm not sure if I'd call the guy "articulate." I mean, I guess he can string words together better than your average disgruntled, teenage nerd, but most of his points make no sense, or at least contradictory, and he seems to have ego bigger than Kansas. The entire thing was dripping (and even occasionally explicitly stated) with a smugness of, "If you agree with me, then you're brilliant and enlightened. If not, you're a terrible person not worth bothering with." But then again, maybe it does take a certain ability to be articulate in order to make an opinion piece sound so much like a plea to save the starving children. I particularly liked the part where he said, "His decision early on to support the blu-ray format during the HD wars was commendable." Commendable? Why? Because he backed the winning horse? Or because he happened to pick the same horse you were betting on? What the hell is 'commendable' about that?

However, after taking another glance at the article just now, I'd say the argument for articulation falls apart just at how many times he throws out the word "fanboy." Used in such abundance, it really does start to sound like your average disgruntled, teenage nerd.

Tobar said:

Looks like Bill Hunt is being attacked. Originaltrilogy.com is also mentioned toward the beginning. I'm still trying to figure this out:

How you can be an advocate for quality cinema while at the same time telling an artist that he MUST release earlier versions of his films he no longer supports is a contradiction.

I've been lurking for several weeks watching this thread.... I am one of those who agrees with most of what this community has been in arms about (aside from an extreme 10% or so of the more hyperbolic forum members), yet unfortunately I WILL still buy the blu-rays, as I am firmly addicted to Lucasfilm Kool-Aid. (Don't waste your breath hitting me with "you're part of the problem" nonsense.)

I have had nothing new to add to this thread, as I feel that most of my thoughts have been well articulated by others. However, the link above moved me to action, not because I think that the owner of that blog is a nutcase, but because he is an intelligent, thoughtful individual whose view is in direct opposition to most in this forum.

I have yet to have come across such a view articulated so well, so I responded on his blog. Our conversation has been illuminating, and I must admit, the guy has a point. I don't have to agree with it, but I do respect it.

To Adywan--

Greetings brother.... I fervently hope that Lucasfilm never decides to shut you down, as your "Revisited" versions are the perfect substitute, and by and large, an example of what we all feel Lucasfilm SHOULD have done.

=o)

You rock, Adywan!

Ghostbusters said:

I apologize for bringing up old issues, but Adywan, your bank account is already empty? What happened to that money I gave you? That wasn't exactly chump change. You spent it all, already? I don't think you got my email, but I did say I would prefer you spend that on computer storage than stuff to make that damn wampa, which I am still reluctant to believe you can pull off.

 

Even if your "condition" was reasonable, which it is not.....what objective evidence do you have that Ady didn't do EXACTLY as requested by you?  And an apology for something you are about to do is no apology.... it is a lame justification.

So again.... what did you achieve by the above post?

adywan said:

Akwat Kbrana said:

Sorry, I should've been more specific. I know that a workprint has already been sent out in the past, but I meant that limited distribution of an xvid workprint of the initial final draft of ESB:R would be a good idea. That is to say, when Ady is "finished" with the edit sometime in mid-2011, it might be worth the extra time to send out an xvid workprint of that, presumably finished, draft of the film, for said members to examine and critique. It would act as a kind of last-chance QC measure before the final DVD version is released to the public.

Yes, that is something i will be doing, but i won't be releasing it to anyone outside of the ESB:R crew

 You realize of course, that if you do this it will not be a question of if it gets leaked, but when.  It is an undeniable fact that the ability to keep a secret is inversely proportional to the magnitude of the number of people who know it to begin with.

It's one of the subsets of Einstein's theory of relativity.

=o)

adywan said:

Yodas vibrating ears are part of his charm and it also seems to add age to him. This is something i would never think of changing

 

One of the things that I liked about the Yoda cgi in Episodes II and III was that they incorporated his vibrating ears.... and his rather imprecise lip synch.  A nice touch by true fans of the original trilogy.

Too bad their boss was a little off his rocker!

Just noticed something.....

The pilot of that shuttle is a real daredevil.  He had to hit the gas in reverse really hard to make the shuttle seem motionless from the POV of the camera.  It's really reversing out of the SD docking bay at a breakneck rate!

And then, the pilot hits the accelerator hard and plummets to get the shuttle out of the way of the remaining SD superstructure which is still moving forward at cruising speed.  Not much room for error there!

I have two conclusions--

1)  Needa CAN'T be in an excessive hurry to his own death.

2)  The move is hugely aggressive compared to how we've seen Lambda shuttles moving in RotJ.

I know the work required would probably be enormous, but wouldn't it make more sense for the shuttle to be moving forward in relation to the POV camera at a slightly slower pace than the SD, before it makes it's descent and turn?

That said, to undermine my own point, it IS visually interesting to see the shuttle plummeting straight down before moving off.  Style versus logic, I guess.  And it is a HELL of a lot better looking than the original footage!

And you ridiculous Brits and your "Happy Christmas".....

No wonder us Yanks moved away and fought you off with sticks!  It's "Merry Christmas".  Or "Merry Christmas, eh!" if you're part of the 51st state.

>=o)

Wow..... just..... wow......

Ady, what I love most is how you use the subtlest of digital tweaks on what is already an astonishingly life-like muppet.  I can't even tell with complete certainty what was original and what your tweaks are.  That's how cgi should be used.

Wow.

Ghost--  There is a problem with your assumptions that is so staggeringly obvious that I can't believe you aren't seeing it.....

You have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER if or how Ady is making progress with the bantha creature.  He quite simply has not given us enough information to have any kind of realistic and meaningful point of view about it.

The fact that you personally cannot believe that it is possible for him to do it well, based in part on the fact that all Ady has shown us is a picture of the fur, makes my point for me.

Please, don't try to tell him what he CAN'T DO!  It's a good way to kill someone's creative energy.

Ghostbusters said:

One thing that always bugged me about ESB. Growing up in school long before I saw ESB or even knew which movie it happens in, I often heard the line "Luke I am your father." It is probably the most quoted line in movie history. It's probably the most misquoted line in movie history too. The first time I saw ESB I was expecting Darth Vader to say it like that but instead he says "No, IIIII am your father." Adywan, could you insert the word "Luke" in his line right after he says "No"? So instead he says, "No Luke, I am your father."

And while you're are at it, you should change JEJ's voice to that of Darth Stewie, pictured to the left.  You know, this would be a good idea for RotJ:R as well, come to think of it.

C'mon..... you know it would be killer!

Ady,

Was wondering if you could give us a short yet concise latest report?  How much is done..... how much do you have left to do?  Any current challenges?  Need any more computer monitors?  ;o)

Hey Ady,

I have been quietly following this thread with enthusiasm.  Hope things have settled out for you a bit in recent months.  And I hope that monitor has gotten a ton of use!

In any case, I wonder if you would briefly update us on how things are proceeding as a whole....  Sure, we get bits and pieces from time to time, and they are quite appreciated, but unless we are truly in the KNOW, it is difficult to guess where the project is in its entirety.  Is there a glimmer at the end of the tunnel, yet?