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IsanRido

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7-Mar-2016
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20-May-2019
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Post
#1279030
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

4throck said:

IsanRido said:
Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

You can just use the opening as is and have the Emperor arrive instead of Vader. And for extra cloaked figures you can cut from the Emperor to Luke’s deleted cave scene.

Yeah, that kind of transition is necessary. Jedi is the first film in the franchise to have editing problems, most of which are carried over to subsequent installments. As such, I believe the third act would benefit greatly from reducing the alternance between Endor, the space battle and the throne room scenes. Ideally it would go like this:

  • “Welcome Young Skywalker” and “come boy” as a singular scene. A new shot of the Emperor rotating his chair towards the window is necessary (perhaps re-purposed footage from earlier) to blend both scenes together.
  • Han entering the bunker and the deleted fight ought to be reinstated, followed by their capture.
  • Cut to the Rebel Fleet arriving and having the space battle continue up until Lando says “Come on Han don’t let me down”.
  • Cut to the beginning of the duel (“Your fleet is lost”), and continue up until the bridge collapses.
  • Resume the ground battle as Han and his crew are escorted outside. The sequence ought to continue up until the shield is destroyed. By the way, it doesn’t have to blow up and look it’s taking out much of the forest. A simple electrical current suggesting the machine is de-activated ought to work. Lando and the fleet can the approach DSII as it happens in the film.
  • Resume the duel, Luke has been hiding for quite a while. The scene can go uninterrupted until the Emperor is destroyed. Then everything goes “back to normal”, or as Lando puts it “here goes nothing”.

A more radical idea that has been discussed a lot is not having Leia as Luke’s sister. Which I think could work for a good number of reasons, but there a few things to take into account:

  • Yoda’s death. Since his last words are the reveal, much work has to be done to a) Have him say something else or have him not die at all. There’s the still the problem of him announcing “another one” in Empire. Who on Earth could it be?
  • The conversation with Obi-Wan ought to end with “you must face Vader again”, or simply not take place at all, though it would create a problem since Luke mentions Anakin later.
  • When Luke reunites with the rebels and Leia asks what’s wrong with him, either his predicament has to be a different one, or Leia doesn’t notice anything at all.
  • Luke’s farewell to Leia is extremely problematic if he’s not his sister. Maybe could silently slip away, but this has to be adressed somehow.
  • The biggest “loss” by removing the reveal is that Luke now needs a different reason to go beserk on Vader. At the moment the only thing I can think would be the Dark Lord inducing visions into Luke’s head (with a similar effect to the nightmares in the prequels) of his friends dying or something to that effect.
  • In this conext, Leia’s reveal to Han obviously ought to go, which would also rid the film of Han’s jealousy towards Luke.
Post
#1275342
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Yeah, I think attempts have been made over the years to make the Star Wars Vader more like Empire, but I prefer his more expresive, crude version to the refined one from the sequels.

Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

Post
#1262507
Topic
Thoughts on Star Wars Titles
Time

I use A New Hope mostly for practical reasons, but I much prefer to call it plain Star Wars. The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are both great titles, and I love hearing the narrator in the trailers gleefuly announcing them. Why can’t we have that in the new trailers, they’d get me so excited about the films.

The Phantom Menace I don’t think is such a terrible title. Having “Episode I” preceding it makes the title seem more ridiculous than it is. If it was simply Star Wars: The Phantom Menace it would open up a lot of interesting possibilities. Attack of the Clones is plain deceptive, I’d expect a truly awesome throwback film with intentionally campy dialog and production design from it (perhaps the title and crawl could have been fashioned in a font different from the norm that was more suited for that idea). Revenge of the Sith would make for a much compelling title if we knew what they were having revenge for.

The Force Awakens does start out nicely by breaking the “X of the X” pattern, but at the same time it feels like an obvious soft reboot title. I suppose it was the most logical choice for the time being. The Last Jedi is another deceptive title, which would seem to fit the film’s main drive to subvert expectations. However, on a closer examination it does make a lack of focus evident (the storyline about the Jedi hardly provides any more impetus than the other 3 stories at play).

And naturally I despise having “A Star Wars story” as part of the titles. We’re already reminded they are that because they exploit the tropes and imagery of the franchise. I would have gone with something like “Rogue One: Or how we stole the plans to the first Death Star”.

Post
#1261409
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I’d do a TV show edit of the OT, with occasional flashbacks to the prequels (by which I mean all of them). This is roughly what I have in mind:

  • Start with the deleted scenes of Luke witnessing the battle and heading for Tosche Station. We’d follow his point of view, until he meets the droids.
  • The battle at Tantive IV and everything that follows (including the capture by Jawas) would occur as a flashback when CP30 tells Luke about all they’ve been through. We still don’t see what’s happening on board the Death Star.
  • When Luke meets Ben, flashbacks of prequel events would pop up. As Ben says “He betrayed and murdered your father”, we’d see the final moments of the duel at Mustafar, but it would not be revealed who is it that Anakin is fighting, so we’d assume his mutilation was caused by Vader (whom we still haven’t met). Perhaps Obi-Wan can be rotorscoped into a dark silouette.
  • Some flashbacks to Order 66 could take place as Ben feels the Destruction of Alderaan (which we haven’t seen). When our heroes comes across the destroyed planet, it’d come across as a surprise to the audience.
  • As the Falcon is captured by the Death Star, we’d cut to Tarkin being informed about it. This would be the first time we see of him and Vader. Much like the shooting script, this and his order to execute Leia would occur as one continuous scene. Potentially Vader going off to meet Obi-Wan could occur here as well.
  • Since all previous scenes of Leia have been cut, we’d meet her in the flesh during her rescue.
  • The duel could include some prequel flashbacks that don’t compromise Vader’s identity. Since at this point we know Luke’s father was Hayden, then it follows that Vader should be Jake Lloyd (painful, I know). Perhaps some duel footage from the prequels can be repurposed to have Obi-Wan fighting someone other than Hayden.
  • As the Falcon departs and Leia comforts Luke, perhaps we could cut to a flashback of Alderaan’s destruction. It’s the only place I can think of for this scene in the context of ANH.
  • The Battle of Yavin would probably occur without cutting away to the Death Star.
  • The Throne Room scene might be deleted since it feels much like movie ending and this is a TV series edit. Potentially a flashback to the prequels could bridge the gap between ANH and Empire.
  • The first Empire scene could be Vader’s contact with the Emperor, after which we’d cut to the Imperial Fleet searching locating the Hoth system.
  • Cut to the Hoth scenes, albeit told only from the Rebel POV, mostly Luke’s.
  • Luke would arrive at Dagobah shortly after leaving Hoth. We’d follow his storyline, though Yoda might have a few flashbacks here and there. This storyline would interrupted as he leaves for Bespin.
  • After that we’d cut to the Han/Leia storyline, presumably beginning when they leave Hoth and concluding at the Carbon Freeze. After this, we’d resume Luke’s storyline with the Duel playing uninterrupted.
  • The Return portion of the series would begin as with the film, with Vader arriving at DSII, but the deleted scene of Luke building his saber could be incorporated as a segue to droid storyline, which we’d follow. Perhaps before that, Luke can have a flashback of Dagobah (meaning he returned right after Empire). At this point we can reveal Obi-Wan as the dark silouette who mutilated Anakin (a flashback within a flasback).
  • After Han is rescued, all of our heroes would return to the Fleet together.
  • We’d follow then the Rebel storyline for quite a while. As Luke leaves to meet Vader, we would exclusively focus on the ground battle at Endor. This would continue up and until the battle turns ill for the Rebels.
  • At this point we can cut to Luke confronting the Emperor as one continuous sequence. We’d find out the Rebels succeded by having the deleted Jerjerrod scene telling us so.
  • We’d cut back to the ground and space battle right after the Emperor is killed. Since we’ve still haven’t seen Vader’s death and Luke evacuating there’d be some suspense regarding his fate when DSII blows up.
  • The celebration could be intercut with flashbacks of the Republic in its glory, hinting such days could return after having won this very important battle (No SE celebrations that imply everything was immediatly fixed after the Emperor’s death).
  • End the saga with Vader’s funeral (I believe Bingowings suggested this one).
Post
#1259881
Topic
Lord of the Rings Trilogy - Restructured to match the Rough cut/Script.
Time

Updated the list of scenes.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Wait. You’re telling me that even with each movie clocking in at over three hours (EE) there’s still a significant amount of cut footage that hasn’t been released? Wow. I mean I had heard about Arwen being cut from Helm’s Deep, which hasn’t been released, and which I’m still kinda salty about.

Yup, there’s plenty of footage that didn’t make it to any cut of the film. I’ll be working mostly we the material we see in the trailers and documentaries, though the main focus of the edit will be to restore the originally planned structure.

benduwan said:

sounds good.
will this be a extended extended version or there some cuts?
by the way i like extended movies…😉
if you need a german track,let me know.
i own the german blurays.

No cuts to alter the film. I might, however, delete all shots not pertaining to the principal photography when possible, and will possibly remove shots that corresponded to different scenes and/or montages that were conceived in post-production.

As for the different languages, I don’t think I would be doing that for this edit since much of the deleted content exists only in English (and Elvish?). However, there’s nothing stopping us from making multilanguage .mkvs of the Theatrical and Extended cuts 😉.

Post
#1258894
Topic
Lord of the Rings Trilogy - Restructured to match the Rough cut/Script.
Time

I have been intending for a while to create a fan edit of the trilogy that re-structured the film to the original chronology corresponding to the script and the rough cuts, filling in the deleted content with stills/subtitles and whatever material can be found in the behind the scenes footage. This is not intended to be an improvement or even a restoration of Jackson’s intentions (the released versions are his preferred ones, after all) merely a curiosity of sorts ala “The Lost Cut” of Star Wars. For some it might be a fun alternative to the extended versions if they intend to watch the entire trilogy in a row.
Since the shooting script is nowhere to be found, I compiled a list of the numbered scenes based on photos of the call sheets, clapboards as seen in the behind the scenes, photos from the storyboards, animatics, etc):

  • SCENE 3-7C Gandalf and Frodo arrive at Hobbiton.
  • SCENE 4 Unidentified scene at forest.
  • SCENE 10 Bilbo’s Party.
  • SCENE 15 Unidentified, dark background.
  • SCENE 19 Nazguls in the Shire.
  • SCENE 26 Gandalf leaves for Isengard (“The enemy has many spies”).
  • SCENE 28 Sam on the cornfield (“If I take one more step…”).
  • SCENE 31 Arrival at Isengard.
  • SCENE 32 Gandalf and Saruman “The Palantir is a dangerous weapon”.
  • SCENE 33 Shortcut to the Mushrooms.
  • SCENE 44 Nazguls enter Bree.
  • SCENE 63 Story of Beren and Luthien.
  • SCENE 68 Frodo stabbed on Weathertop.
  • SCENE 70 Caverns of Isengard.
  • SCENE 76 Flight to the Ford.
  • SCENE 108 The Ring Goes South.
  • SCENE 117 Entrance of Moria.
  • SCENE 130 Fellowship vs. Troll.
  • SCENE 132 Fellowship at the Stairs.
  • SCENE 133 Gandalf vs. Balrog.
  • SCENE 139 Goblins chase Fellowship at Lorien (Deleted scene).
  • SCENE 147 Sam’s poem about Gandalf in Lorien.
  • SCENE 150 Mirror of Galadriel.
  • SCENE 153 Farewell to Lorien.
  • SCENE 164 The Argonath.
  • SCENE 169 Aragorn and Legolas battle Uruks/Boromir’s death.
  • SCENE 169-5A Frodo and Sam reuinted.
  • SCENE 176 Fellowship ending (“I’m glad you’re with me”).
  • SCENE 202 Recap of Gandalf and Balrog.
  • SCENE 207 Urukus quicken pace.
  • SCENE 207 Banishment of Eomer.
  • SCENE 217 Heroes meet Rohirrim.
  • SCENE 239 Taming of Smeagol.
  • SCENE 264 Exodus from Edoras.
  • SCENE 257 The Dead Marshes (“We can’t eat Hobbit food!”)/Dead faces/Smeagol Flashack.
  • SCENE 264 The Black Gate is Closed.
  • SCENE 313 Warg Attack.
  • SCENE 313 Arwen and Galadriel at Lorien (Deleted scene).
  • SCENE 314 Frodo and Sam captured at Ithilien.
  • SCENE 320 The Forbidden Pool.
  • SCENE 322 “So this is the answer to all riddles” DELETED: Faramir * imagines Frodo as Gollum.
  • SCENE 324 Treebeard and the Hobbits (Unknown).
  • SCENE 325 Treebeard and the Hobbits (“South? That would lead us past Isengard”).
  • SCENE 330 Isengard army sets out.
  • SCENE 332 Last March of the Ents.
  • SCENE 333 Brego rescues Aragorn.
  • SCENE 336 Aragorn arrives at Helm’s Deep.
  • SCENE 337 Aragorn informs Theoden of the approaching army.
  • SCENE 345 Battle of the Hornburg (“Release Arrows!”).
  • SCENE 348 Battle of the Hornburg - Ladders.
  • SCENE 349 Battle of the Hornburg - Retreat.
  • SCENE 370 The Road to Insengard.
  • SCENE 371 The Voice of Saruman.
  • SCENE 372 Gandalf Epilogue (“Sauron’s Wrath will be terrible”).
  • SCENE ??? Deleted scene between Legolas & Treebeard.
  • SCENE ??? Arwen’s vision.
  • SCENE 375 Two Towers Ending (“We could let her do it”).
  • SCENE 401 Forging of Anduril.
  • SCENE 402 The Chalice Passed.
  • SCENE 408 Legolas and Aragorn at balcony (“He’s here!”).
  • SCENE 409 Gandalf questions Pippin about what he saw in the Palantir.
  • SCENE 410 Golden Hall (“There was no lie in Pippin’s eyes”).
  • SCENE 411 Morgul Vale (“No safe places around here”).
  • SCENE ??? Golden Hall (“Things are in motion that cannot be undone”).
  • SCENE 420 Osgiliath invaded (“We ride for Minas Tirith”).
  • SCENE 433 Gandalf and Pippin arrive at the citadel and see the White Tree.
  • SCENE 434 Gandalf and Pippin meet Denethor at Minas Tirith.
  • SCENE 440 Task for Pippin/Denethor berates Faramir.
  • SCENE ??? Lighting of the Beacons.
  • SCENE 447 Aragorn informs Theoden of the Beacons.
  • SCENE 450 DELETED: Pippin wakes up in room and sees Gandalf in * balcony.
  • SCENE 460 Gandalf and Pippin in the balcony.
  • SCENE 461 Minas Morgul.
  • SCENE 467 Pippin and Faramir discuss childhood armor.
  • SCENE ??? Allegiance to Denethor/Faramir’s sacrifice.
  • SCENE 470 Pippin and Denethor (“Can you sing, Master Hobbit?”)
  • SCENE 473 Dunharrow (“We have till dawn”).
  • SCENE 474 Dunharrow (“To the smithy")/Vision of Arwen (Deleted scene?).
  • SCENE 478 Dunharrow – Elrond brings Anduril.
  • SCENE 482 Muster of Rohan (“We ride for Gondor!”).
  • SCENE 485 Parting of Frodo and Sam.
  • SCENE 487 Siege of Gondor (Unknown section).
  • SCENE 492 Trio at Paths of the Dead (“I see shapes of men).
  • SCENE 495 Siege of Gondor ("Denethor Has Betrayed Me”).
  • SCENE 499 Siege of Gondor (Unknown section).
  • SCENE 500 Denethor leads Faramir to pyre.
  • SCENE 504 Trio at Paths of the Dead (Silhouettes).
  • SCENE 505 Trio at Paths of the Dead (“That line was broken!).
  • SCENE 506 Aragorn sees pirate ships/(“We fight”).
  • SCENE 508 Grond opens the door (“You’re soldiers of Gondor”).
  • SCENE ??? Merry’s simple courage.
  • SCENE 513 Shot of Pirates (Aragorn boarding ship?).
  • SCENE 514 Siege of Gondor (“Kill all in your path”).
  • SCENE 516 Pelennor Fields - Arrival of Rohirrim.
  • SCENE 517 Pelennor Fields - Charge of the Rohirrim.
  • SCENE 521 Pelennor Fields - Mumakil Fight.
  • SCENE 522 Gandalf explaining the Gray Havens to Pippin.
  • SCENE 525 Shelob’s Lair.
  • SCENE 531 Sam vs. Shelob.
  • SCENE 533 Pelennor Fields – Legolas vs. Mumakil.
  • SCENE 538 Fight at Cirith Ungol (“This scum tried to knife me!”).
  • SCENE 550 Arwen at Rivendel (“Your hands are cold”)*/Aragorn Dresses for Battle (Deleted).
  • SCENE 562 Aragorn vs Sauron.
  • SCENE 563 Mount Doom (“The Ring is Mine”).
  • SCENE 566 Nazgul flies to Mt. Doom.
  • SCENE 569 Mount Doom – Gollum recovers Ring.
  • SCENE 572 Mount Doom - Frodo and Sam run away from doorway.
  • SCENE 573 Dark Tower Explodes.
  • SCENE 578 Coronation scene.
  • SCENE 589 Sam returns home with family.
    *It’s strange to see this scene pop-up so late, perhaps the filmed section at the behind the scenes is a flashback (???).

Some notes on the early cuts as indicated by the audio commentaries and liner notes from the Complete Recordings:
There was to be a flashback in Fellowship, prior to Aragorn’s meeting with Boromir, which would have shown a young Aragorn frolicking with Arwen.
The flashback were Elrond tells Aragorn to forget about Arwen (“She stays for you”) was to occur after Gilraen’s Memorial.
The flashback to Aragorn bidding farewell to Arwen was to occur before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell.
The flashback to Aragorn biding farewell to Arwen (“You must not falter” This identified as scene 89 in the clapboard, which contradicts Jackson’s statement) would have occured after his conversation with Gandalf (“Sauron fears you”).

  • Many of the scenes featuring Isengard preparing for battle at the beginning of The Two Towers are outtakes from * The Fellowship of the Ring.
  • The Uruks setting camp originally took place in two different sequences. They were combined in post-production.
  • The flashback to Gollum’s origins was to take place in The Two Towers during the Dead Marshes sequence.
  • When Faramir discovers Frodo has the Ring, he was to have a vision of him looking like Gollum.
  • The beginning of the Battle of the Hornburg was not to be intercut with civilians in the caves.
  • Legolas cutting the rope with an arrow is an outtake of him firing at the Olympic Orc.
  • No close-ups of Aragorn reacting to Gandalf’s arrival.
  • No close-ups of Saruman reacting to the flood.
  • No voice-overs by Sam at Osgiliath, nor there are reactions by Gollum.
  • Saruman’s death was to take place at the end of The Two Towers. Following this there would be a deleted conversation between Legolas and Treebeard. The next scene would be Arwen at the forest having a vision.
  • The Return of the King was to open at Edoras with Aragorn awakening from a nightmare.
  • The conversation about the Palantir (“He told nothing to Sauron about Frodo or the Ring”) was to be interrupted by the Journey to the Crossroads.
  • The arrival of Gandalf and Pippin to Minas Tirith was to occur simultaneously with Osgiliath being invaded.
  • The scene where Denethor berates Faramir for letting Frodo go was to take place before the lightning of the Beacons.
  • Faramir’s sacrifice was to occur immediately after his argument with Denethor.

The project is still on the research stage, so there’s still no telling what the finished edit will be like, but it will likely resemble the films as conceived in the principal photography.

Post
#1257971
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

Ryan-SWI said:

You didn’t see George talking about how god awful the OT was while promoting the PT.

I did see it! Good old George kept refering to the Original Trilogy as “unfinished films” and kept talking about how much happier he was in the cold and controlled enviroment of the prequels.

Post
#1254351
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

I don’t know about reading minds, but he certainly he certainly can interpret feelings well enough to know Leia is Luke’s sister, to sense fear, hatred, etc. It’s not so much of a stretch to believe he might have sensed whatever that rebel was holding in his hands was of great importance. Adding to that, the man frantically shouting “Take it!” before his demise, and the lenghts they went to protect that object might have been clue enough for him that he needed that tape.

As for his agility, he certainly isn’t doing backflips or the many nonesensical movements done in the prequels, but he is much slower in Empire. His ability to deflect blaster fire is present there, but he’s fighting one person (which he was expecting to appear), not an entire rebel batallion. I’d assume if he was able to fend of those troops he’d do it with greater difficulty, or in an entirely different manner.

Post
#1254242
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

Star Wars - The Tosche Station scenes.

Just a casual remind that I’m working on a frame-by-frame restoration of Luke and Biggs’s conversation.

Rogue One - Vader’s assault on the Tantive IV.

Um, what? That’s the most universally beloved scene in the movie? If you disliked it for being fanservice, you’re gonna hate Solo.

I have nothing against fan service, I’m an anime fan after all. I disliked it because for a multitude of reasons:
-It presents an excessively agile Vader that fails to match his mannerisms in the original trilogy.
-Portrays Vader as a one man army that takes an entire squad by his own unharmed. This begs the question as to why they bother sending storm troopers in the first place.
-There’s an inherently artificial feel to the scene. Comparing it to scenes in similar locations in Star Wars it’s baffling how something made on a larger budget several decades later could look so much worse.
-It’s illogical, Vader could simply snatch away the plans (they’re right there!) with his powers.

Post
#1254075
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

Star Wars - The Tosche Station scenes.
The Empire Strike Back - The Wampa’s attack on the base.
Return of the Jedi - The endless sequence of Han attempting to open a door.
Phantom Menace - Of the third act I’d say Amidala storming the palace.
Attack of the Clones - The Arena scene as soon as Yoda and the clones land.
Revenge of the Sith - The duel with General Grievous.
The Force Awakens - Most of the third act’s wandering in the base.
Rogue One - Vader’s assault on the Tantive IV.
The Last Jedi - The battle at the salt planet.