GuardianoftheWhills

In retrospect, one of the frustrating things about the sequel trilogy, and the new EU, is that they do contain some very interesting elements that weren’t better realised: the Knights of Ren, the Sith Eternal, the revelation of Luke’s and Leia’s parentage, a Stormtrooper rebellion, corrupt weapons manufacturers, Luke’s search for old Jedi temples, an attack on the Imperial shipyards/hijacking a star destroyer (from the screenplay of ‘Duel of the Fates’), the New Republic Starhawks, etc.

I can only imagine where we might be if Bob Iger had given Michael Arndt more time to work on the sequel story.

Servii said:

At the start of VII, the galaxy is in a state of cold war, with the two largest galactic factions, the Republic and the Empire (still just called the Empire), having maintained a ceasefire for about a decade or so.

Covert attacks begin to take place against both the Republic and Empire, with each faction being framed for the attacks on the other. Agents within both governments carry out subversion to weaken the ceasefire and push the factions back towards open war.

I always thought the Bond films could provide a useful formula for post-Endor Star Wars - have a Spectre-like enemy organisation trying to destroy the peace/provoke war between the New Republic & Imperial Remnant. The Sith Eternal could have taken such a role, with the Knights of Ren among their agents.

Perhaps the theft of ancient Sith and Jedi artefacts leads the new Jedi to launch a mission to investigate. You could have a resurgent Mandalore and rogue Imperial warlords in the mix too. Less focus on super-weapons, more on smart weapons or ancient Sith weapons (plagues, poisons, etc). If you still want a big space battle either build up to that by gradually establishing the threat of the Sith Eternal throughout the trilogy, or have a series of conflicts provoked by the Sith Eternal: an Imperial civil war, a Mandalorian attack on an Imperial warlord, a Corruscant uprising, etc.

A stormtrooper rebellion could be instigated by Sith agents as a means to make the Imperial remnant need their help. Perhaps have a second trilogy where the Sith Eternal emerges as a greater military power, having usurped the Sith-averse military leadership of the Imperial Remnant or reforged their ancient alliance with Mandalore.

If Rey exists I’d like her to be Rey nobody. Bar Ben, none of the new Jedi have connections to the legacy characters. Have Finn lead the Stormtrooper rebellion.

If Ben Solo was to turn, I’d like to see that happen in the context of his grandfather being revealed to be Darth Vader. Let’s see what impact that had on Luke’s Jedi academy & Leia’s standing in the senate. (Make her the chancellor.) The agents of the Sith eternal could be behind this. This would also sow the seeds of a crisis of confidence for Luke.

There was a storyline in the old Marvel comics I might have adapted for Ben’s downfall, where an imperial agent - Shira Brie, later Dark Lady Lumiya - infiltrates the rebellion. (The rebels use captured Tie fighters to attack a secret Imperial armada. Luke accidentally shoots her down in a space battle after using the force to identify who is an enemy, and becomes a pariah.)

Use the outline of that but with an agent of the Sith Eternal who infiltrates the new Jedi order. She either frames Ben or he seemingly kills her during a mission, leading the other Jedi students, and Luke, to fear he’s another Vader. Have this come after or as Ben’s lineage is revealed. This throws the Jedi Academy - & it’s relationship with the New Republic - into chaos. I’m not sure I’d have Ben eventually turn, be possessed by a Sith artefact or just be treated as an outcast though. Perhaps have this be the moment when the Knights of Ren attack and frame him for its destruction.

I agree with others, especially Servii (prefer your first outline), that they could have cherry picked elements from the EU, especially Dark Empire, the Thrawn Trilogy and even Legacy (but more for the Imperial framework that the story or characters). I’d be inclined to open the trilogy with a New Republic rescue mission on a war torn Corruscant, and have a main Imperial faction that has rejected the Sith, which the Sith Eternal wants to undermine. (Perhaps have Ben &/or Luke on that mission, encountering a mysterious figure plundering artefacts from the old Jedi temple/Imperial palace amid the civil war. This leads them to travel to other temples to investigate other thefts.)

I do think Adam Driver could have elevated a storyline similar to the Luke plot of the first Dark Empire comic series. Have him try to infiltrate the Sith Eternal, either falling to the Darkside or being manipulated by them. Perhaps he ends up as a Ronin-type figure (a bit like the character in Visions), travelling round the Unknown regions to continue resistance against the Sith Eternal - also a callback to Gary Kurtz’s plans for Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi.

But I also think the High Republic series has elements that might equally have worked in the sequel era, e.g. you could invert the Death Star storyline to have an attack - sabotage - on a New Republic space station akin to Starlight Beacon, which is thwarted but leads to a hyperspace disaster that makes maintaining the peace more difficult. Have an uneasy alliance between the new Jedi order and New Republic spies (or Imperial spies) which leads to the unknown regions, etc.

You might even have tied the storyline into an Old Republic trilogy. Have the Sith Eternal, who worship the ancient Dark Lords, kidnap force sensitive children in an attempt to resurrect an undead Sith. You explore that Sith Lord’s story in an Old Republic film or series.

Basically, there were - and still are - loads of possibilities. & I think it would be possible to adapt the above ideas to a post-sequel film series: an uneasy peace among different galactic factions; rebuilding the Jedi order; a Spectre-like Sith or other Dark Side group undermining the peace & carrying out covert/terrorist attacks.

Omni said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5UX1Adanis - teaser trailer.

Not gonna lie, this looks very promising. Probably because, like Rogue One, it’s so “low stakes” in the meta sense that if it sucks it won’t matter. But I think I’m gonna love it.

Both the cast and writing credits are very promising. The writers for the first seven episodes are Tony Gilroy and his brother, Dan Gilroy (writer and director of ‘Nightcrawler’), plus Stephen Schiff, writer & exec producer of The Americans (which I really recommend watching): https://directories.wga.org/project/1225499/andor/

If this series lives up to its promise, I’d like to see Gilroy oversee a film trilogy or series. Give him Rogue Squadron if Patty Jenkins is stuck in development hell.

I always thought the Bond films could provide an interesting formula for post-Endor Star Wars - have a Spectre-like enemy organisation trying to destroy the peace/provoke war between the New Republic & Imperial Remnant. (The Sith Eternal could have taken such a role.) Gilroy, as director of the Bond-like Bourne films, would be perfect for a film series exploring that scenario.

I also hope it might raise expectations among fans. The Filoniverse has its place, though I think there’s way too much of it & it can be mediocre, but Andor looks like it could be HBO-level appointment TV.

ZkinandBonez said:

GuardianoftheWhills said:

Also, it’s really striking how much of the praise for the show is focused on fan service. But it’s not a substitute for a strong narrative and risks turning Star Wars into a zombie franchise.

I can’t speak for others, but I’m not enjoying the show so far because of fan service but because I think it has so far has been an interesting character story and I hope it will continue to be so. Sure, not every SW story needs to be a redemption arc, but it is very baked into the DNA of the franchise and I don’t think a series where Boba Fett is just a ruthless bounty hunter would be all that interesting. A character driven series needs more depth than that, and based on what we’ve been give so far I think we’ll get it.

Just because we’ve gotten one mediocre episode with some wonky effects and action I don’t think there’s any need to panic. I mean we’re not even halfway through the series yet.

We’ve had two mediocre episodes - 1 & 3.

Where is this interesting character story? Can you explain why you think it is compelling? In what way do you think this is adding to the characterisation of Boba Fett?

Why does a supposedly ruthless bounty hunter who’s been left for dead in the stomach of a monster and then experienced the loss of his new tribe want to rule with ‘respect’ (especially when almost everyone around him blatantly disrespects him)? Why doesn’t he want to get revenge or at least impose order? That would at least be consistent with his characterisation prior to this show. Why is he seemingly so naïve?

I cannot think of any well regarded series where the plot is as aimless as this. It’s like watching a Star Wars screensaver.

Episode 2 showed this could be better - I want it to be better. But even a good director can only take a story so far if the writing isn’t up to scratch.

We shouldn’t have to wade through an hour of mediocrity in the hope later episodes might be better. There are only seven episodes - they should all be high quality. If the producers can’t manage that then they should cut the number of episodes.

StarkillerAG said:

Also, I feel like they made Boba way too soft in this show. I get that he’s been through some traumatic stuff, but he just seems blind to the realities of running a criminal organization. Instead of him being the calculating warrior from the OT and Mando, his solution to everything seems to be “give the bad guys some money and hope they go away.” And that tendency was especially bad this episode: did they really need to include that scene of him going kawaii-mode over the baby Rancor?

We’re three episodes in and the audience still hasn’t been given a clear reason why Boba wants to be a crime lord. Furthermore, it’s even less clear HOW Boba is a crime lord, given that he lacks the necessary organisation to be one. &, no, a bunch of pouting cyber-mods doesn’t address that deficiency.

It does make me wonder if the show was a last minute stand-in for the Mandalorian season 3, and there’s some truth to the rumours of behind the scenes difficulties. But perhaps that’s being to charitable to Favreau, and the limitations of his writing ability are being exposed here. The plot manages to be both simplistic and convoluted. They need to put a good writers room together.

& I agree they need to stop ‘humanising’ the villains. They don’t all need redemption arcs. There are other interesting character arcs.

Also, it’s really striking how much of the praise for the show is focused on fan service. But it’s not a substitute for a strong narrative and risks turning Star Wars into a zombie franchise.

I’m glad I qualified my praise for the previous episode because this week’s was drek. Rodriguez has a unique talent for making this world look so cheap. The Bantha Bobba rode in the flashback looked like a muppet.

The fight choreography was lacking. Bobba is no worse for wear after being tossed around, choked, bitten and crushed? Then he lets Black Krrsantan just walk away. The Hutts are just leaving?

The Vespa scooters & their riders seemed jarringly out of place - a Quadrophenia homage on Tatooine? They seemed like something from a bad Syfy or CW show. What was with the bizarrely slow ‘chase’ scene?

Where are the stakes? What is the hook? We’re three episodes in yet the present day story is still thin and underdeveloped. I don’t expect the Sopranos in Space but the poor plotting and characterisation is really exposed when you don’t have a strong director capable of elevating the very basic writing.

GuardianoftheWhills said:

The only negative I’ll add at this point is that the sparseness of the narrative - as with the Mandalorian - really requires great direction to elevate the material. The Rick Famuyiwa and Deborah Chow episodes of the Mandalorian were real standouts. Famuyiwa’s ‘The Believer’ from Season 2 being the high point for me.

Unfortunately, I didn’t enjoy Robert Rodriguez’s opening episode of the series, nor has stint on the Mandalorian season 2. I hope his subsequent episodes don’t drag down the show’s pacing.

The handling of Bobba Fett here reminds me of how the Prequels undermined Vader: the economy of his dialogue was a large part of his menace. He didn’t say much but what he did say was pointed and delivered with weight.

The Book of Bobba Fett leaves me wondering did we really need this chapter in his life? More than that, it leaves me thinking who is this inept wanna be crime lord? How can someone who was one of the top bounty hunters in the galaxy be so ignorant of the underworld? How does his organisation work when it seems to only consist of him, Fennec, a couple of Gamorrean guards and a few droids? Why is he so ‘nice’?

With any luck we get a better director who can at least make these issues less glaring. But this show underlines some significant problems with the Mandoverse. I’m looking forward to some other show runners being rather more ambitious.

This was a massive step up from the first episode. Better pacing and direction. It felt far more cinematic, with the lighting and cinematography disguising the limitations of filming in the Volume for the most part. The flashbacks were also far less jarring as a result.

Plus it drew on the new and original expanded universe without seeming too much like fan service.

Black Krrsantan looked suitably menacing. The Hutt Twins were a great new addition. With the Pyke Syndicate too, it’s shaping up to be the exploration of the Star Wars’ underworld it promised to be - if it can keep to this quality.

The train attack reminded me of the one from the early 1980s Classic Star Wars newspaper strips - where Luke derails an Imperial desert train under attack from Chubbits on the planet Aridus. The train designs are very similar - see Classic Star Wars issue 10.

Camie and Fixer getting into scrapes at Tosche Station recalled Biggs’s comments to Luke in the Star Wars radio drama that they would never amount to much: “They’ll never leave Tatooine - maybe never get as far as Mos Eisley. … Fixer’s just about smart enough to know he’s better off being a big noise in a small room. Camie’s dumb enough to think she’s made the prize catch hereabouts.”

Liked the parallels between the Tuskens’ aquatic past and Boba’s own watery upbringing on Kamino.

The ‘humanising’ of the Tuskens felt very classic Star Wars - the indigenous species battling superior tech - and a modern day counterpoint to their portrayal in the OT and PT.

The only negative I’ll add at this point is that the sparseness of the narrative - as with the Mandalorian - really requires great direction to elevate the material. The Rick Famuyiwa and Deborah Chow episodes of the Mandalorian were real standouts. Famuyiwa’s ‘The Believer’ from Season 2 being the high point for me.

Unfortunately, I didn’t enjoy Robert Rodriguez’s opening episode of the series, nor has stint on the Mandalorian season 2. I hope his subsequent episodes don’t drag down the show’s pacing.

On the plus side, I hope we’ll see Steph Green direct more Star Wars TV.