Fang Zei

Mocata said:

Fang Zei said:

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

I don’t follow you? New releases, old releases, all that matters is the idea this was the “original vision”. Most people think George Lucas created Star Wars already and they will watch or buy any version without questioning it. Most people probably don’t care about streaming or HD or anything, they just consume stuff when it is presented to them. We are now on the 4th Special Edition it still says “1977” on the new service but only super nerds like us will even notice.

My point is that a lot of those same fans probably also signed up for D+ and can now stream the latest version of the movies, in full 4k and hdr if they so desire, whenever they want. So why would those fans bother to spend additional money just to own it physically? If Disney really wants the discs to sell, and sell big, they’re now going to have to throw something in other than just the same streamable versions with a higher bitrate and better compression, and I think we all know what that something is.

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

It’s not just the sky that has been changed. The dunes were altered for the SE and they have reverted those back to the '77 version

I noticed this last night too. I didn’t realize it was the original sand though. The sky/sand replacement was 2004.

Is… is this a sign they actually went back to the 97 negative and redid all of the subsequent changes?

I have so much work to do.

JEDIT: this would also explain why it doesn’t have the mistakes introduced in 04 (Ben’s purple lightsaber, the glow added without the core, Ghost Luke).

They still haven’t fixed what is imo RotJ’s most glaring vfx error, which is that when the DS2 destroys another ship all of the stationary ships in the background roll with the camera.

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

JawsTDS said:

This recent development has me wondering about those Blu-rays that came out a few weeks back. Everyone was aware that they had the 2011 changes on them, but I wondering if somehow they missed out on the fact that it could’ve had a new scan?

I read that it was just the 2011 discs rebranded / repackaged, but can anyone on this forum definitively confirm that?

I’m pretty sure the discs from September were the exact same from 2011. Disney probably didn’t want to spend a single red cent re-authoring I-VI, even though we now know they had a new master literally right around the corner. They probably just wanted to get them all out there individually in cheap packaging (not steelbooks) since they closed the Fox buyout only a few months earlier.

But like I said before, now we know why they waited so long to put this new transfer out there. I was convinced we wouldn’t see it in any form until the UHD discs arrived, just so they could blow everyone away with the picture quality compared to any previous release of the films. It’s clear now they wanted to save it not for disc, but for their streaming service. Now they can sell D+ with it and tout streamable 4k hdr versions of all the Star Wars movies.

Octorox said:

Has anyone been able to determine if the wacky editing changes from the Attack of the Clones Blu-Ray are still there?

I was actually trying to remember what the changes were when I was watching the first few scenes this morning. All I remember is something got switched around when they fly through the power couplings and also the scene where Dooku escapes into space is rearranged as well.

Maybe someone can do a quick comparison between the bd and the D+ to see if those scenes have been changed yet again.

So much for that rumor from 2015 about how the next SE iteration would revert that scene to the way it originally was in ‘77.

Yeah I skimmed through the first several scenes of AotC this morning specifically to see if there was still a green/teal tint, and it appears to be gone. Coruscant’s skies actually look blue and there are some deep reds during the speeder chase.

I seem to recall seeing a screenshot comparison back in 2011 where one of the Twi’leks standing behind Padme when she arrives at Palpatine’s office is blue in one version and green in the other, so it would be interesting to compare them yet again with this new transfer.

Haven’t checked out TPM or RotS yet.

Mocata said:

Han Solo IRL said:

https://abload.de/img/benvaderp8ktk.png

https://abload.de/img/lukefalconcrjkm.png

https://streamable.com/nit5m

Jeez. Everyone is waiting for some miraculous OOT release and they’re doing THIS?

…Wait is Vader’s red/green suit control button been changed to red/blue like in ESB? Weird thing to notice… but y’know.

Since anyone with a Disney+ subscription can now stream the movies in 4k hdr whenever they want, I have to wonder if Disney isn’t planning on restoring the OOT to include in the UHD disc package just so they can give fans a selling point other than simply “the same exact thing you can stream on D+ … but with better compression and on a disc!”

Harmy said:

Looking at the screenshots posted so far, it does look like a new master but not necessarily a new scan, because the clarity/detail level is comparable to or worse than the 2004 masters.
It might be that they simply found the 2004 digital masters before the color grading and sharpening and upscaled them and gave them a new grade, which would have been necessary for HDR anyway.

I feel like you’re overthinking it.

This has to be from the 4k 16-bit restoration we first heard about more than five years ago. Now we know why it took so long to get out there. Disney clearly wanted to save it for their streaming service.

I was checking out the ESB duel and it looks identical to the brief glimpses we got in Reliance MediaWorks’ sizzle reel, and not like the blu-ray.

Logic would dictate that Disney would eventually have to put it out once they’ve run out of ways to milk the OT again and again with multiple releases. We’re already at actual 2160p-on-disc and there’s still no word on whether or not we’ll see the unaltered’s properly restored this time.

canofhumdingers said:

Huh. Rogue One, to me, felt like some of the best EU from the 90’s (like the early X-wing novels and comics or the dark forces video game series) brought to live action.

This trailer feels like some of the more bizarre or “out there” 90’s EU like, say, Dark Empire. Not sure if that’s a good thing or not yet…

Gareth Edwards mentioned that he was a big Dark Forces fan iirc, and it’s been pointed out that Jyn and Cassian could totally be Jan and Kyle.

Didn’t Lucas say back in the 90’s that Dark Empire reminded him of how he would’ve handled the ST? They consulted him for IX, so maybe that explains the similarities?

nl0428 said:

When the Original Trilogy makes its way to 4K, it will, without a doubt, be the 2011 Special Edition. However, do you think it’s possible that Disney and Lucasfilm will at least correct both the colors and sound mixes to match the theatrical presentations and sound far less compressed?

It’s going to be from an entirely newer scan of the negative, so they’ll have to redo the color-correction anyway.

As for the sound mix, your guess is as good as mine.

BedeHistory731 said:

Part of me wouldn’t mind waiting, see how much they absorb from pop culture osmosis alone.

This was pretty much my experience growing up.

I got into Trek first, knowing pretty much nothing about it until my mother rented Search for Spock on vhs for me when I was five (this would’ve been 1990, so do the math). That’s kind of like going into Star Wars cold and starting with ESB or RotJ, but either way the movie blew my mind and I was hooked. I saw all five films before seeing Undiscovered Country in the theater.

Star Wars was something I just always knew about and don’t remember “discovering.” So yeah, I never had that experience of sitting down and watching Empire for the first time and finding out the big twist. My earliest clear memory of watching the “I am your father” moment for the first time was after I’d already seen RotJ on USA, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even part of a proper viewing of ESB but rather a clip on some making-of / retrospecticus special.

But certainly by ‘93 or ‘94 at the latest I’d seen all three from beginning to end.

trillary dump said:

dgraham414 said:

Can’t wait until I can have my complete box set with theatrical-97-04-11 and revisited all together. For now other reason then I totally need 5 different ways to watch the same movie

I’m glad I’m not the only one who wants to make a box set like that! I’m actually trying to make three multi-disc boxsets for each movie like the Blade Runner box set!

I’ve long said that if we ever got an official set that included more versions than just the original and “most recent” (presumably revised even further from the 2011) that it should be the ‘97 that takes priority over the ‘04 and ‘11 versions, which were only ever seen on home video and tv anyway with the exception of a few screenings in theaters here and there every now and again.

But the irony is that if they really wanted to still include the ‘04 and ‘11 versions they could simply branch them onto the ‘97 disc, just as the middle disc of the Blade Runner set branched the ‘92 and both ‘82 versions. They would have to conform everything to the same color timing (preferably the ‘97 color) and they’d have to include three separate audio tracks, but it’s totally doable.

IIRC, the 2013 reissues of the 2011 OT and PT bd packs included dvd copies of the 2011 versions, so it should be the 2011 versions across all formats now.

The irony is that digital movie cameras improved by leaps and bounds in the decade following AotC’s release. We forget that the 3D rigs James Cameron used to shoot the live-action sections of Avatar were still using essentially the same 2/3” Sony cameras as George used on AotC and RotS, just with a few improvements. It was right around that time (2007) that the Red camera made its debut and started the competition between the various companies that got us to where we are now, where you shoot something digitally and emulate grain in post and no one but the most experienced cinematographers would be able to tell it wasn’t actually shot on film.

George always wanted to move beyond the photochemical realm and I suspect that had he directed Episode VII he wouldn’t have even bothered using the only then recently-available Arri Alexa 4:3 to match the Anamorphic look of the OT/TPM and just shot it in 3D using spherical optics. So we would’ve been back to the bokeh of AotC/RotS but with 35mm-or-larger-sized sensors this time, thus giving The ST its own distinct look from the OT or the PT. Back in early 2012 that’s basically how I thought it was going to go. We’d get the 3D conversions of I-VI one movie per year like Rick McCallum was saying, and then in like 2019 or 2020 we’d get George’s shot-in-3D Episode VII, kind of like ‘97/‘99 all over again but on a much longer timeline.

Then George sold the company.

I feel like it would make way more sense for it to be the latter, since using the old disc would make TFA the only commentary-less saga film of this reissue. TLJ had Rian’s commentary from the get-go.

I’m guessing RO and Solo never got commentary tracks?

I wonder if TFA is the original release or the one from the 3D combo that has the Abrams commentary.

Yeah, it’s just to have them out there individually but with cheap packaging and a digital copy this time.

We’re not even going to see the 4k master in 1080p form until the UHD hits. They’re going to want the 2160p HDR version to look as stunning as possible compared to anything that’s been available before.

They’ve already announced dates for three untitled Star Wars movies in 2022, 2024 and 2026, all in December. Maybe Rian’s trilogy could take the summers?

Broom Kid said:

I think it’s because the episode numbers becoming a prominent part of the marketing and labeling really only happened for the prequels. Before (and after) that point, the focus was less on the episode number (which we know was mostly a gimmick) and more on the title itself.

I’m curious as to whether Empire of Dreams has at least been upscaled. I remember hearing they were working on making as much of that HD as possible, so when it appeared on Amazon Prime I checked it out and it seems to be a straight DVD rip.

Also interesting to get confirmation that the files being used for Star Wars are the digital masters, complete with that weirdly cut-up fanfare over the Lucasfilm logo and the 20th Century Fox logo only appearing on Star Wars. I wonder if they’re only using those for this test, or if that’s going to be what’s rolled out for the rest of us in November. I was pretty curious as to whether they were going to reinstate the logos for the entire OT/PT, or cut them all off entirely. But if this holds through for official launch, it’ll basically just be blu-ray rips.

For the OT it was the titles themselves, for the PT it was the episode numbers, and for the ST they clearly wanted you to care most about the fact that it was STAR WARS.

Yeah, I’m also curious if these will still be the old OT masters once the service goes live or if that’s only for the test. It’s especially curious that they’d be recycling them yet again when Rogue One is being made available for streaming in 4k.

I’ll be honest, the whole idea of Luke using (or at least appearing to be using) Anakin’s lightsaber as a symbolic turnaround from him throwing it over his shoulder at the beginning of the movie never even occurred to me until now. Even though it’s all an illusion, I was always puzzled by why he wasn’t using his green saber from RotJ. Other than the flashback, do we ever see it at all, even if it’s just lying around somewhere in his hut on Ahch-to?

Did he still have it on his belt in that final shot of the first flashback where he’s kneeling next to Artoo watching the training temple burn?

Since Kylo Ren saw Anakin’s saber get broken in half, wouldn’t that have been a dead giveaway? It makes a little more sense that he doesn’t immediately figure out what’s going on if we assume that Luke’s green saber got destroyed on the unnamed (unless it’s in one of those DK books or something) training temple planet and thus a rebuilt Anakin saber makes a little more sense. But still, that’s a pretty short turnaround time.

SilverWook said:

Seeing that The Black Hole finally got a Blu-Ray release last month exclusively through the Disney Movie Club, I wonder if they might take this route with the OUT?

I’ve seen that idea brought up elsewhere, but if that rumor from April is true (that each film will have four discs when it hits UHD next year) then I don’t see how one of those discs wouldn’t be the unaltered version.

The idea that they’d put the OUT out there via DMC implies that Disney doesn’t want to force people to buy versions of the movie they don’t want. I really think we’ve got it backwards. The OOT doesn’t need the SE to sell in bigger numbers, the SE needs the OOT. A lot more people are aware of how many times these films have been revised now than in 2004. That initial dvd release sold like crazy, but I’ve heard multiple people tell me they were shocked to get to the end and see Hayden as Anakin.

A significant percentage of the fans would prefer to watch the original versions, and a not insignificant percentage would probably even prefer the 1997 versions (updated vfx but no replaced actors).

LordZerome1080 said:

Here’s hoping the rumours about a Blu Ray release in September contains the OUT. Also hoping D+ Has it.

There’s pretty much no chance Disney+ would have the OUT. In fact, since I-VI will be up on the service “within the first year,” that’s all the more reason for Disney to include the OUT in the physical 4k ultra hd releases next year and make it exclusive to the physical release. It would give people one more reason to buy them instead of simply waiting for them to go up on the streaming service.