Fang Zei

One of those RMW employees' resumé's said they were working on this as early as 2010. I'm not gonna go back into this massive thread and find it, but the wording was definitely that they'd "completed" a 4k restoration on the trilogy by then (didn't say which version, though). This means they would've started work on it even earlier. If those dates were accurate, the question remains as to why this newer transfer wasn't used for the 2011 blu-ray. Maybe George really didn't want to spend a dime on making everything perfect and "final" for the 3D conversions until he absolutely had to, so the 2004 masters were recycled since they're at least technically 1080p and those 2011 changes were done as cheaply as possible. As Zombie said, the 3D re-release of ANH was still years away at that point.

To play devil's advocate, I always thought George must've been convinced that he was telling a story with all the vfx in the prequels. Similarly, he probably thought the "dated" vfx of the OOT were hampering the the story he wanted to tell.

"Conversion" is still the wrong word to be using, though. They're not "converting" anything.

moviefreakedmind said:

I'm actually genuinely shocked that Lucas didn't replace Bossk with CGI. I love him, but his costume always did look pretty rubbery. I mean, if you're going to """modernize""" your movies (or whatever the hell he was doing), why replace perfectly good VFX shots with CGI, but not replace rubber lizard suits with CGI?It makes no sense. 

Probably because it would be too difficult to do seamlessly. I'm sure it's crossed his mind, but the time and effort and money that would be required probably made him go "meh, I'm just glad I can make the Ewoks blink now."

Apparently there will be actual 4k (well, quad-hd) blu-ray players and discs for sale by the end of 2015. At least, that's the plan as of right now:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-latest-industry-news/1674202-4k-blu-ray-newsa-you-can-buy-christmas-2015-a.html

I wonder if Star Wars will be among the first wave of titles.

What we really need is a comparison between the RMW and the blu-ray for those Empire shots.

Wow, I can still remember, I wanna say it was early 2006 (maybe '05) when I first heard about this and Fanboys, which was also delayed but eventually released on dvd on TPM's 10th anniversary. 5/25/77 was supposed to be done in time for the 30th anniversary, IIRC. I wonder if there's been any progress since the road tour.

I still want to say that the escape pod shots are from the '04 job. I remember that shot of r2 and 3po as one of the big "before and after" examples from back then. Of course, that doesn't mean they're not simply using the exact same scene to show off their work on the newer restoration, but the voice-over guy does say "here's what we delivered for dvd."

Also, it's from a different demo-reel, one that contains a lot of older restoration jobs. The reel with the saber and trench run and luke/vader fight from Empire (and that shot of 3po from ANH tip-toeing up to the camera) doesn't have anything from before 2009. That, combined with the fact that the footage doesn't match up to the blu-ray (aside from the sabers not being the originals), is what makes me think it's the 4k scan. I think they've simply redone the sabers yet again for this new scan since it was probably done primarily to make a "finished" SE and a starting point for a 3D conversion.

I highly doubt the lightsaber footage in the RMW reel is in any way connected to the 2004 job. Even if we take the botched color-timing at that release's finishing line into account, there are still differences in contrast and framing to consider. There are also differences in the flashes that the color-timing wouldn't account for. Also, the footage simply has the "look" of a modern 4k scan.

moviefreakedmind said:

To me the idea of Disney ignoring the current movies is about as likely as hearing Luke ask for Leia's midichlorian count in Ep. VII. Star Wars has been, and always will be, on the shelves in stores. It's one of the highest selling home video movies of all time, and it would make no sense to not want to sell it in stores for no reason. IN FACT! (I'm a bit excited because I just thought of this) - I wouldn't be surprised if Disney want's a new set out there so that the current blu ray set doesn't read, "The Complete Saga". The old Indy DVD set read, "The Complete Adventures," and the three movies were re-released before Crystal Skull came out, this time being advertised as, "The Adventure Collection," instead so that people knew their old boxed sets were no longer the comprehensive Indiana Jones set. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens again. Also, Disney makes money on Home Video releases, and it's always a given to re-release your movies in a new boxed set when revisiting an old franchise like this. 

Wow, I hadn't even thought of that!

It was only "the complete saga" for like a year and change before they announced Episode VII. They'd probably want those off the shelves by the time Episode VII hits blu-ray at the very latest. Think of the confusion that would cause!

My guess is that we're getting total radio silence from Disney because they don't want to announce anything at all until the time is right. They want it to be a grand announcement, press release style.

There are so many variables to consider, it makes my head spin:

-The 3D conversions. Could this be a big reason for the 4k restoration? Also, wasn't there a demo shown of AotC in 3D at a convention in Germany? I've said it before and I'll say it again, RotS is already pretty three-dimensional just in regular 2D. I wouldn't be surprised if they put out those last two prequels in 3D, even if it's a short run to get them out of the way for the OT. I'd be equally unsurprised if they simply skipped the remaining prequels. Or maybe they've completely lost interest in the 3D versions, who knows? A theatrical re-release kinda seems like a no-brainer, though, especially with Episode VII around the corner.

-What to include or not include in a home video release. The films are yet to be released individually on blu-ray. This presents an opportunity for the blu-ray equivalent of the '06 dvd, only without the bullshit this time. The question is, do they go the simple route and include only the most recent version and the original version or do they include the '97 version as well? Or do they keep it even simpler than that and just release a 3-disc OOT set?

-The situation with Fox. Does Disney release it through them or do they pay Fox to license it out? Fox is making money either way. Could this prevent Disney from giving a hoot about the existing movies? We've heard rumors that they're only focused on the new stuff. The existing blu-rays from Fox aren't going anywhere. Still, I would think they'd want to make a finished, polished, mastered-in-4k version of the movies before the new movies come out.

.... And about a million other variables that Disney is no doubt considering right now.

If his permission is all Fox thinks they need, I doubt Lucas cares one way or the other. He's 4 Billion dollars richer now and it won't be a single cent of his money that will be spent on a hypothetical OOT restoration. That's why he put out the GOUT in the first place, he didn't want to spend any of his own money on a restoration.

doubleofive said:

Fang Zei said:

The bit from the badass digest article I find interesting is that apparently the people in charge at Fox don't feel comfortable releasing the OOT while Lucas is still alive.

I'm not sure why this would be the case, though.

Yeah, but without sources, that's really just someone assuming something. I'm pretty sure Lucas has never actually said "There will be no originals as long as I draw breath!", or even thought it. For Fox to assume that is stupid, and for anyone to assume that Fox assumes that is even more stupid.

 "And there's one more wrinkle I've heard from sources at Fox: as long as George Lucas is alive they're not willing (or able? I'm not clear here) to go against his wishes and release the untouched originals. That was the situation earlier this year, when a rumor about a rerelease of the untouched originals was circulating. Unless something has changed in-house I wouldn't expect movement on these in the immediate future."

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/16/why-i-doubt-disney-is-releasing-the-unaltered-star-wars-ot-on-blu/

I do think he's making a mountain out of a mole hill with the whole "Fox owns the rights, therefore this rumor is bs" part, though.

The bit from the badass digest article I find interesting is that apparently the people in charge at Fox don't feel comfortable releasing the OOT while Lucas is still alive.

I'm not sure why this would be the case, though.

Yes.

I say that because there are countless examples of films with more than one version being released on dvd and blu-ray with both/all of their versions included.

I seem to remember reading an article on the official site way back in 2002 where one of the people involved with AotC (on the vfx end of things, I think) said there were like 80 little differences just between the theater version and the dvd version.* The only big noticeable difference between the 35mm and digital versions in theaters was Padme holding Anakin's hand at the end, but the longer scene of his confession about slaughtering the Tuskens ("I'm a Jedi") wasn't added until the dvd IIRC.

*It was 12 years ago now, so my memory is a bit fuzzy. The dude might've just been talking about the 35mm and digital versions. It would help if I could remember what time of year it was.

I'm pretty sure the desert escape pod shots are from the 2004 job. The voice-over guy even says "here's what we delivered for dvd." The only weird part is that he refers to the film element as an IP whereas I thought they were working with o-neg scans. Maybe he was simply using the term "IP" in place of "scan."

The lightsaber shots are from a different demo-reel, one that contains nothing from before 2009. Also, the framing doesn't match the blu-ray. I think the Star Wars and Empire footage in this particular reel is from the new(er) 4k job.

Another thing to consider:

One big reason Lucas decided to put out the OT on dvd in 2004 is because he realized he could use it to hype RotS, the movie that was going to complete the saga.

Now Disney wants to hype the continuation of the saga.

The 4k SE will probably be the "final" revision of the movies. George knows he can't keep changing these movies forever. It's worth noting he's the same age now as Ridley Scott when the final cut of Blade Runner was released.

To me they wouldn't even need to include the '04 and '11 versions for it to be the Star Wars equivalent of the Blade Runner set. Just give me the versions that got wide theatrical releases (as I'm sure the 2015 or whenever version will) and I'll be more than satisfied.

I second (third? fourth?) all of the Robert A. Harris love. If there's one person who would know the best way to go about restoring these films, it's him.

Cedric T Sealion said:

darklordoftech said:

Nick66 said:

Trust me, Star Trek fans are. All the time.

Give me one example of a Star Trek fan complaining about a Star Trek movie having matte lines.

I don't think they moan about matte lines, but they are certainly crying out for the extended versions of the Trek films to be released on blu-ray.

I'm the guy crying out just for decent-looking transfers of the versions they did give us. When I heard it was only gonna be the theatrical cuts for the blu-ray debut I was actually thrilled.

Then I saw the screenshots.

Wrath of Khan looks great thanks to the restoration they gave it, but the other five are like the blu-ray equivalent of the GOUT for me.

That's the big problem when it comes to stuff like this: ignorance on the part of the consumer. They assume that because they're watching a blu-ray it looks perfect and exactly as it should. With new release titles they're almost always correct (although even that has exceptions. See: the blu-ray of the finished-on-film Transcendence), but with catalogue titles it's a very mixed bag. There was a long stretch of time when my attitude towards the quality of older films on blu-ray was "if it's not one thing it's another." In other words, it was rare that we got a catalog release that completely lived up to the potential of the format.

But the issues with most other big catalogue titles pale in comparison to the Trek movie bd's.

Are people really gonna care, though? Yeah, they'll probably notice the matte lines, but they'll also notice a lot of other stuff that was changed.

.... Except I highly doubt an official OOT restoration would omit the original crawl. If anything, the '77 crawl would get priority. They can (and should) include the option of watching the movie with the '81 crawl via alternate blu-ray/dvd video angles. The region 1 prequel dvd's did exactly this to show the crawl in French and Spanish.

The same goes for matte lines, which they would not be cleaning up if we're talking a strict restoration here. That was a technological limitation of the time. It's not about making "the vast majority of fans" happy, it's about preserving the films as they were originally presented. 

moviefreakedmind said:

So, this means that if RMW is doing this 4K restoration, they have to restore the unaltered scenes of Mos Eisley, Yavin, Death Star, etc. etc. and then go back in and recreate all the lame CGI?

No, all the work done in '97 would presumably just be scanned back in from the filmed-out negative, just as it was in '04. It's the changes made in '04 and '11 that would need to be redone.

IIRC, Zombie mentioned somewhere (either on savestarwars or secrethistoryofstarwars) that the negatives were assembled in an A-B fashion. That is, over/under/over/under and so forth. This allowed the SE team to remove and replace the relevant pieces of negative without destroying any frames.